When will it all end?

Ginger n Lemon · 21-02-2021 05:32PM

Allinall wrote: »

Where did I say anything like that?

I asked how you think protests will make any difference.

Are you able to answer?

Think about it logically, assume people do nothing. Like you. Then we will stay in level 5 until May at the earliest.

Now, I ll help you, imagine people actually do something, gather and send the message of "end the lockdown" to the government. Do you think that in both scenarios there will be no difference?

If you think answer to my question is yes then there is no point in telling you what difference protests will make... so please do answer.

hynesie08 · 21-02-2021 05:36PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Think about it logically, assume people do nothing. Like you. Then we will stay in level 5 until May at the earliest.

Now, I ll help you, imagine people actually do something, gather and send the message of "end the lockdown" to the government. Do you think that in both scenarios there will be no difference?

If you think answer to my question is yes then there is no point in telling you what difference protests will make... so please do answer.

Did the protests last year work?

end of the road · 21-02-2021 05:38PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Think about it logically, assume people do nothing. Like you. Then we will stay in level 5 until May at the earliest.

Now, I ll help you, imagine people actually do something, gather and send the message of "end the lockdown" to the government. Do you think that in both scenarios there will be no difference?

If you think answer to my question is yes then there is no point in telling you what difference protests will make... so please do answer.

as i said, just ask those who rioted in the netherlands do protests make a difference.
the fact is they lost, restrictions are still in place and the lock down remained after their actions.

ThunbergsAreGo · 21-02-2021 05:38PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Think about it logically, assume people do nothing. Like you. Then we will stay in level 5 until May at the earliest.

Now, I ll help you, imagine people actually do something, gather and send the message of "end the lockdown" to the government. Do you think that in both scenarios there will be no difference?

If you think answer to my question is yes then there is no point in telling you what difference protests will make... so please do answer.

Not even protests just opinion polls.

Look how quick the government condemned and took takeaway pints away after Twitter/Media outrage, or how quick they are to comment on things in the US. This lot want to be liked

johnire · 21-02-2021 05:39PM

I asked you very simply what protests are you talking about?
Where are they?
Are you organising any seeing as you seem to be in favour of them?

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Why are you asking? You wanna open your curtains to look? :pac:

Parachutes · 21-02-2021 05:41PM

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

I don’t think you’d get mass protests in Ireland tbh. It’s not France and the government is relatively much more accessible ans responsive than an executive presidency or high majority parliamentary systems like the U.K.

I would suspect if you saw a pushback here it would be just like what happened at Christmas. Demands would be made, lobbies would push, back benchers and even front benchers would put pressure on and things would open. It’s an extremely responsive system and has very little executive power in reality, despite imaginations on various right wing forums.

What’s keeping things on track at the moment is just consensus of public buy in after the Christmas disaster.

I wouldn’t underestimate the level of it though based on what you’re seeing on a few Internet forums. The public has been a *lot* more conservative than some of the commentators and often even the government.

I mean one of the parties is probably closer to being “The Publican Party” than the Republic Party, yet they’re somehow managing stay off the pints, which is really remarkable.

Outliers don’t necessarily describe public opinion.

On paper we’ve had a lot of restrictions. In reality they’re mostly very, very loosely enforced compared to what I’ve seen reported elsewhere in Europe, in the U.K. or even in the US.

Ireland has had the third strictest restrictions in the world. I’ve been back and forth to the UK since April and I can tell you Ireland is far stricter. There’s loads of places in the US too that are more or less operating as normal.

If you think this is ‘loosely enforced’ I’d hate to see what you think is strict.

NeuralNetwork · 21-02-2021 05:47PM

Parachutes wrote: »

Ireland has had the third strictest restrictions in the world. I’ve been back and forth to the UK since April and I can tell you Ireland is far stricter. There’s loads of places in the US too that are more or less operating as normal.

If you think this is ‘loosely enforced’ I’d hate to see what you think is strict.

Well a friend of mine in Spain’s experience was being shouted abuse at by police, having to fill in forms to walk the dog. We never had anything even remotely approaching that.

During the entire pandemic my only encounter with the guards was a checkpoint where she went “how are ya? - freezing night isn’t it. Mind the ice!”

What we do have is a long, drawn out set of half arsed restrictions that look good in paper.

There’s a stark contrast between the reality and I think people who are living in bubbles online, getting extremely angry with stuff that is in reality enforced with light touches so light you’d hardly notice them.

The only ppl I’ve seen in media who’ve been prosecuted were absolutely taking the pi$$

josip · 21-02-2021 05:50PM

end of the road wrote: »

...
case numbers falling would suggest you are again, incorrect.
ah well, better luck next time.
...

But falling so slowly that if the current rate of decrease were to continue, we wouldn't reach the magic 100 cases until the 20th of October.

GazzaL · 21-02-2021 05:50PM

Everywhere I went today was absolutely packed. Loads of people out in the shops and going for food and drinks. Businesses are mad not to stand up for themselves and open up at this stage. Just don't make a song and dance of it that would attract too much attention from the lockdown loonies. Keep the head down and carry on.

NeuralNetwork · 21-02-2021 05:58PM

They need to take a more nuanced approach to these business restrictions though. I don’t see how something like a big box hardware store can be in anyway more of a risk than a supermarket.

There are loads and load of examples of closed businesses that just makes no sense.

Also with regards to the hospitality sector, we do have some specific issues with pubs, but it seems like as the weather gets better, safe, well distances outdoor dining should be tried and if there’s no spike keeping going with it.

Shouldn’t we be doing experiments like maybe opening some business types in one town & doing mass testing to see what happens to case numbers and then applying that knowledge to policy?!

The cost of doing stuff like that could result in huge benefits.

xhomelezz · 21-02-2021 05:58PM

GazzaL wrote: »

Everywhere I went today was absolutely packed. Loads of people out in the shops and going for food and drinks. Businesses are mad not to stand up for themselves and open up at this stage. Just don't make a song and dance of it that would attract too much attention from the lockdown loonies. Keep the head down and carry on.

Stupid, stupid and third time stupid. Last thing we need is more loonies posting this shīte.

21-02-2021 05:58PM

Yup, walking around poolbeg today and everywhere is packed, I definitely think there has been a change of attitude. Old and young people walking around without masks and not a care in the world it seems, only the odd few wearing them.

I would think if a protest was organised now numbers would be strong.

xhomelezz · 21-02-2021 06:01PM

tommybrees wrote: »

Yup, walking around poolbeg today and everywhere is packed, I definitely think there has been a change of attitude. Old and young people walking around without masks and not a care in the world it seems, only the odd few wearing them.

I would think if a protest was organised now numbers would be strong.

Nope numbers would be low, cuz people can use their brains, that's why.

NeuralNetwork · 21-02-2021 06:01PM

The point is I don’t think Ireland and organised protests are something that needed. TDs are always in a precarious political position and have to be responsive.

There’s fantasies online that Ireland has some kind of hardcore government. We simply don’t. It flies kites and goes with the flow.

It’s also exactly the reason why we had a mess at Christmas. Nobody wanted to be Scrooge McMean (I hate Santa and Pints) TD.

The public will also react very badly to spiking numbers however, and will conclude they’re incompetent far more quickly than they’re than they’re over conservative.

Public moods can be fickle and hold multiple contradictory opinions at the same time but, I think it’s a huge error to read Irish public opinion based on forums or Twitter, or by assuming it’s like the US and off in blue vs red culture wars.

the kelt · 21-02-2021 06:11PM

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

They need to take a more nuanced approach to these business restrictions though. I don’t see how something like a big box hardware store can be in anyway more of a risk than a supermarket.

There are loads and load of examples of closed businesses that just makes no sense.

Also with regards to the hospitality sector, we do have some specific issues with pubs, but it seems like as the weather gets better, safe, well distances outdoor dining should be tried and if there’s no spike keeping going with it.

Shouldn’t we be doing experiments like maybe opening some business types in one town & doing mass testing to see what happens to case numbers and then applying that knowledge to policy?!

The cost of doing stuff like that could result in huge benefits.

Yep we should absolutely.

There’s so much that doesn’t make sense but as evidenced over the past few pages certain people treat lockdown like a religion in this country, they know certain things don’t add up, know it’s doesn’t make sense but just can’t bring themselves to admit it.

That’s the biggest issue imho, there’s no nuance, no effort to try something’s like you’ve suggested, none whatsoever, just lockdown with a 5k restriction, bang, go again, bang go again.

I mean we have people here who genuinely are blaming people for braking restrictions being the reason we are in lockdown whilst in their next breath saying sure the restrictions are just a light touch so what’s the issue?

Think about that for a minute!

josip · 21-02-2021 06:13PM

There's no need for a street march type protest.
It'll just be a subtle protest by choosing what rules make sense for each person to follow and not following all of them mindlessly.
eg. Better to drive (outside 5km) to Glenmalure and climbing Lug, than walking along a crowded Dun Laoghaire pier (inside 5km).

21-02-2021 06:19PM

xhomelezz wrote: »

Nope numbers would be low, cuz people can use their brains, that's why.

Yup people with your attitude would have us still living under British rule. Or paying probably close to a thousand euro a year for water charges now.

Ginger n Lemon · 21-02-2021 06:22PM

end of the road wrote: »

as i said, just ask those who rioted in the netherlands do protests make a difference.
the fact is they lost, restrictions are still in place and the lock down remained after their actions.

Curfew is gone. They got what they wanted.

It is really end of the road for you in this thread isnt it? Credibility : 0.00

:pac:

xhomelezz · 21-02-2021 06:23PM

tommybrees wrote: »

Yup people with your attitude would have us still living under British rule. Or paying probably close to a thousand euro a year for water charges now.

Lol ok, dunno where did you get this.

Ginger n Lemon · 21-02-2021 06:26PM

xhomelezz wrote: »

Stupid, stupid and third time stupid. Last thing we need is more loonies posting this shīte.

Are you talking about the hysteria that is still strong in some? Deadly covid resulting in less deaths in 2020 in Ireland than 2019?

That is truly stupid. We finally agree :pac:

NeuralNetwork · 21-02-2021 06:27PM

It’s more like they just don’t want to put any effort into complicated public health measures or don’t have the resources to, so the measures are ending up being very blunt.

I’m wondering if it’s just down to the fact we’ve had a total underinvestment in public health in general as it was a “non sexy” topic since the end of the polio era.

You’re seeing it across the western world, not just here. Public health seems to be an area nobody wanted to think about in the way they don’t think much about sewage systems because you can’t see them, until they go horribly wrong and overflow on the beach.

There haven’t really been any pandemics or even epidemics in the west in a very long time - to the point we have significant % of populations who were wandering off into anti vaccine la la land over the last few decades, because this is something nobody has any memory of.

It might also be explain why later developed countries like China might be handling it better - big recent public health challenges dealt with and systems that might have faced challenges the USA & Europe past faced in the 1950s & 60s.

xhomelezz · 21-02-2021 06:28PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Are you talking about the hysteria that is still strong in some? Deadly covid resulting in less deaths in 2020 in Ireland than 2019?

That is truly stupid. We finally agree :pac:

The only reason for questionable low numbers is, people took precautions, it's as simple. But if you believe otherwise, oh well..

hynesie08 · 21-02-2021 06:29PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Curfew is gone. They got what they wanted.

It is really end of the road for you in this thread isnt it? Credibility : 0.00

:pac:

Did they yeah?

https://www.politico.eu/article/netherlands-coronavirus-curfew-parliament-overrides-court-ruling/

Allinall · 21-02-2021 06:29PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Curfew is gone. They got what they wanted.

It is really end of the road for you in this thread isnt it? Credibility : 0.00

:pac:

Eh.....

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.euronews.com/amp/2021/02/20/dutch-senators-approve-new-covid-curfew-law-in-spite-of-court-ruling-striking-it-down

ThunbergsAreGo · 21-02-2021 06:30PM

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

It’s more like they just don’t want to put any effort into complicated public health measures or don’t have the resources to, so the measures are ending up being very blunt.

I’m wondering if it’s just down to the fact we’ve had a total underinvestment in public health in general as it was a “non sexy” topic since the end of the polio era.

You’re seeing it across the western world, not just here. Public health seems to be an area nobody wanted to think about in the way they don’t think much about sewage systems because you can’t see them, until they go horribly wrong and overflow on the beach.

Dont we spend about 21BN on health and loads of the country still need private health insurance?

Ginger n Lemon · 21-02-2021 06:30PM

xhomelezz wrote: »

The only reason for questionable low numbers is, people took precautions, it's as simple. But if you believe otherwise, oh well..

What I dont understand, and please correct me if i am wrong, 5% of businesses were shut down in July 2020. Cases were 5 - 10 per day throughout.

Now we have 6 weeks of 95% of businesses closed down, yet cases are 800-1000 per day and dont reduce.

I mean precautions? Really? :pac:

Allinall · 21-02-2021 06:33PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

What I dont understand, and please correct me if i am wrong, 5% of businesses were shut down in July 2020. Cases were 5 - 10 per day throughout.

Now we have 6 weeks of 95% of businesses closed down, yet cases are 800-1000 per day and dont reduce.

I mean precautions? Really? :pac:

You’re delusional if you think 95% of businesses are shut down.

Ginger n Lemon · 21-02-2021 06:33PM

Allinall wrote: »

Eh.....

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.euronews.com/amp/2021/02/20/dutch-senators-approve-new-covid-curfew-law-in-spite-of-court-ruling-striking-it-down

Whats your point? Law makers introduce temporary curfew while rejection of original 1 is being appealed.

I mean if I was you I'd be ashamed linking that shi*e.

Look - from your article

Dutch senators approved hastily drawn up legislation

What are you doing here? seriously? embarrassing.

hynesie08 · 21-02-2021 06:33PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

What I dont understand, and please correct me if i am wrong, 5% of businesses were shut down in July 2020. Cases were 5 - 10 per day throughout.

Now we have 6 weeks of 95% of businesses closed down, yet cases are 800-1000 per day and dont reduce.

I mean precautions? Really? :pac:

Did we start at 9000 cases last year?

And cases are reducing, that's why there's 95% less cases.....

xhomelezz · 21-02-2021 06:34PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

What I dont understand, and please correct me if i am wrong, 5% of businesses were shut down in July 2020. Cases were 5 - 10 per day throughout.

Now we have 6 weeks of 95% of businesses closed down, yet cases are 800-1000 per day and dont reduce.

I mean precautions? Really? :pac:

Some people forgot?

And that's gonna be reason for long restrictions, cuz some clowns refuse advice.

When will it all end?

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