Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII Read OP For Mod Warnings

timmyntc · 19-02-2021 03:52PM

kilns wrote: »

Your point about Switzerland not being a more responsible population was what I was referring to and I was referring to a recent vote to increase mandatory work holidays but overwhelmingly defeated as productivity of the country would be effected. Tell me how that would go in Ireland?

People (any that I know of or have seen or read about) currently dont have house parties because it would be a stupid thing to do

Its impossible to tell because it hasnt happened. However seeing as we have one of the lowest numbers of public holidays in the EU, it wouldnt be totally irresponsible to vote for that proposal.

I guarantee people are still having house parties in Switzerland, those typical Swiss are always on the piss with their toblerones and mechanical watches.

gozunda · 19-02-2021 03:55PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

Your comments would be fair if we were two weeks into this but a whole year has passed, and we have nothing but another 3 months+ of heavy lockdown to look forward to.People have sacrificed a huge amount over the last year and there is only so much they can take. You can’t curtail personal freedoms, limit movement, keep half a million people out of work and isolate people from their family and friends for 12 months and not expect to see some push back eventually.

You talk as if people are robots. It is absolutely not selfish to want to spend time with your loved ones after 8 weeks of not seeing them and a whole year of not being allowed to see them for months at a time.

We are little more than a month out from having the highest rates of infection in the world.

And all because of the pressure of people demanding a break for Christmas when rules around household mixing were eased, and limits on travel between counties temporarily lifted and as result we got shafted with rising numbers of people infected with Covid. And add to this a new more infectious strain of the virus, first detected in the UK, spreading here and the current case numbers now being difficult to get back down

'But fuk it I haven't seen my friends since Christmas' ...

I mean what could possibly go wrong ...

:rolleyes:

timmyntc · 19-02-2021 03:55PM

bettyoleary wrote: »

Yes but by this time it should have sunk in to the thickest head it isnt safe to do this. Therefore, no matter what the govt said , it was peoples own choices and they choose to do what suited them and risk lives. As a result lots of people lost their lives. Its unfortunate that we have people who will always do what suits them without a care for anyone else. But, luckily we have people who wont and this will always be our saving grace.

Everything you do in life is a risk you know - simply living your life is a risk.

The idea that we should all be as risk averse as possible is stupid. I'd hate to see what exciting things a risk averse person as yourself gets up to.

ceadaoin. · 19-02-2021 03:56PM

Whatsisname wrote: »

Ironically this super covid 2.0 UK style has the UK's current R number between 0.6 to 0.9. The lowest the R number here has ever been estimated to be. All these mutated variants are a load of nonsense.

Yeah its said to be on the way to being the dominant strain in the US also yet cases are falling at rates never seen before despite not many places being under lockdowns

timmyntc · 19-02-2021 03:57PM

gozunda wrote: »

We are little more than a month out from having the highest rates of infection in the world.

And all because of the pressure of people demanding a break for Christmas when rules around household mixing were eased, and limits on travel between counties temporarily lifted and as result we got shafted with rising numbers of people infected with Covid. And add to this a new more infectious strain of the virus, first detected in the UK, spreading here and the current case numbers now being difficult to get back down

'But fuk it I haven't seen my friends since Christmas' ...

I mean what could possibly go wrong ...

:rolleyes:

Hmm.. maybe, just maybe, theres some connection between the months of tough restrictions before christmas - and all the socialising people did once restrictions were lifted (at christmas)? :pac:

kilns · 19-02-2021 03:57PM

timmyntc wrote: »

Its impossible to tell because it hasnt happened. However seeing as we have one of the lowest numbers of public holidays in the EU, it wouldnt be totally irresponsible to vote for that proposal.

I guarantee people are still having house parties in Switzerland, those typical Swiss are always on the piss with their toblerones and mechanical watches.

You know exactly how it would vote, Irish workers get 20 days holiday mandatory if working full time, Switzerland the exact same.

By the way Ireland have more public holidays than Switzerland and if a Swiss public Holiday ( example August 1st National Day or Chirstmas Day and the 26th falls on Saturday and Sunday this year) falls on Saturday or Sunday its tough luck.

Anyway the point being, Ireland can be a selfish society, me included when I was at home, but my eyes were opened when living in a different society about doing things that are better for the country as a whole not the individual

C__MC · 19-02-2021 03:57PM

The majority of Irish people are puppets controlled and in a fear of an awful government
If they were told to go the Dingle to look for Fungi by MM, they would

Silentcorner · 19-02-2021 03:59PM

timmyntc wrote: »

Hmm.. maybe, just maybe, theres some connection between the months of tough restrictions before christmas - and all the socialising people did once restrictions were lifted (at christmas)? :pac:

Not a single country in this part of the world have avoided a winter surge, no matter what the restrictions.

These lockdown advocates think we should have stayed in level 5 right through from the 3rd week in Oct to May it seems....utterly psychotic stuff.

No matter when we opened, no matter what we did, we were getting a winter surge.

SusieBlue · 19-02-2021 04:02PM

gozunda wrote: »

We are little more than a month out from having the highest rates of infection in the world.

And all because of the pressure of people demanding a break for Christmas when rules around household mixing were eased, and limits on travel between counties temporarily lifted and as result we got shafted with rising numbers of people infected with Covid. And add to this a new more infectious strain of the virus, first detected in the UK, spreading here and the current case numbers now being difficult to get back down

'But fuk it I haven't seen my friends since Christmas' ...

I mean what could possibly go wrong ...

:rolleyes:

This has already been discussed ad nauseam.
The government opened up in December as much to save their own skins as they did to give the people a break. They knew that whether they lifted the restrictions or not, people were still going to mix and mingle.
When MM promised that the 6 week ‘circuit breaker’ (and 3 weeks of level 3.5 before that) would save Christmas and allow us to spend some meaningful time with our families, he couldn’t go back on that without looking weak.
It would have been political suicide to cancel Christmas after making a promise like that.
All that pre Christmas lockdown did was cause huge demand for pretty much everything by the time December rolled around.
We were barely a day back into level 3 when they started warning us that returning to level 5 was imminent again, meaning people made the most of the brief period of respite.

People aren’t robots and human nature must be accounted for. What happened at Christmas is not remotely surprising considering the way it was handled.

kilns · 19-02-2021 04:03PM

The Government have been a shambles on this, hard to find many governments who have actually done a good job (NZ, Taiwan perhaps)

Level 5 was necessary but now its time to put the onus on the Irish people and reduce the restrictions to allow society to breath.

However, if it fails and cases sky rocket again then there is no one else to blame but the Irish people

That would be my political strategy

aziz · 19-02-2021 04:04PM

timmyntc wrote: »

Everything you do in life is a risk you know - simply living your life is a risk.

The idea that we should all be as risk averse as possible is stupid. I'd hate to see what exciting things a risk averse person as yourself gets up to.

Has anyone done a risk assessment on reopening,I know some government departments were very big on them😄

timmyntc · 19-02-2021 04:06PM

kilns wrote: »

The Government have been a shambles on this, hard to find many governments who have actually done a good job (NZ, Taiwan perhaps)

Level 5 was necessary but now its time to put the onus on the Irish people and reduce the restrictions to allow society to breath.

However, if it fails and cases sky rocket again then there is no one else to blame but the Irish people

That would be my political strategy

Not a very good one.
Population management is just one of the things the government has to do in a crisis. There was pent up demand for social activity and shopping and all sorts, due to the months of lockdown prior to christmas.

The government dropped the ball - if they relaxed restrictions earlier (or kept hairdresses, shops, outdoor dining open throughout) then there wouldnt have been such a pent up demand, and over christmas there would not have been such uncontrolled spread.

SushiLover31 · 19-02-2021 04:06PM

Is there anywhere to go for people to lobby government about this issue? It seems the majority think we should be lifting restrictions somewhat, but I don't see this opinion being represented anywhere but here.

francogarbanzo · 19-02-2021 04:07PM

kilns wrote: »

The Government have been a shambles on this, hard to find many governments who have actually done a good job (NZ, Taiwan perhaps)

Level 5 was necessary but now its time to put the onus on the Irish people and reduce the restrictions to allow society to breath.

However, if it fails and cases sky rocket again then there is no one else to blame but the Irish people

That would be my political strategy

This may be the idea with this 9-week leak. Tell people we're about to have the longest extension we've ever had (don't quote me on this, but I think it's the case.) Gin up anger in the public (already seeing a massive change in attitude in many places online.) Start re-opening with a "the people have spoken" spin. Cases rise as they always will no matter when or how we re-open. Abdicate responsibility totally.

Boggles · 19-02-2021 04:07PM

timmyntc wrote: »

Not a very good one.
Population management is just one of the things the government has to do in a crisis. There was pent up demand for social activity and shopping and all sorts, due to the months of lockdown prior to christmas.

The government dropped the ball - if they relaxed restrictions earlier (or kept hairdresses, shops, outdoor dining open throughout) then there wouldnt have been such a pent up demand, and over christmas there would not have been such uncontrolled spread.

If we had relaxed restrictions earlier, the UK strain would have become dominant earlier and much like the UK, Christmas would have been "cancelled".

SushiLover31 · 19-02-2021 04:08PM

Is there anywhere to go for people to lobby government about this issue? It seems the majority think we should be lifting restrictions somewhat, but I don't see this opinion being represented anywhere but here.

timmyntc · 19-02-2021 04:08PM

SushiLover31 wrote: »

Is there anywhere to go for people to lobby government about this issue? It seems the majority think we should be lifting restrictions somewhat, but I don't see this opinion being represented anywhere but here.

Most people are apathetic. They arent abiding by restrictions because they just dont care. They dont care enough to protest or anything - but we can see it in the compliance numbers

gozunda · 19-02-2021 04:08PM

timmyntc wrote: »

Hmm.. maybe, just maybe, theres some connection between the months of tough restrictions before christmas - and all the socialising people did once restrictions were lifted (at christmas)? :

Hmm ...and the months of restrictions before Christmas in order that people could have a "meaningful' Christmas" ...

Are you seeing a pattern here at all? :

How about some let off demanding the right to party and we can get off the roller coaster a bit earlier?

Borrowed this lad :pac: reckon he's better off here

kilns · 19-02-2021 04:10PM

francogarbanzo wrote: »

This may be the idea with this 9-week leak. Tell people we're about to have the longest extension we've ever had (don't quote me on this, but I think it's the case.) Gin up anger in the public (already seeing a massive change in attitude in many places online.) Start re-opening with a "the people have spoken" spin. Cases rise as they always will no matter when or how we re-open. Abdicate responsibility totally.

It does seem like the "political" way..

SAMTALK · 19-02-2021 04:10PM

C__MC wrote: »

The majority of Irish people are puppets controlled and in a fear of an awful government
If they were told to go the Dingle to look for Fungi by MM, they would

These kind of statements don't bring anything to the argument.

The flip side to that is the majority of Irish People are trying to do the right thing and trying to do their bit for our society maybe ?

And silly you the majority of people know they can't go to dingle as its outside the 5k !

timmyntc · 19-02-2021 04:10PM

gozunda wrote: »

Hmm ...and the months of restrictions before Christmas in order that people could have a "meaningful' Christmas" ...

Are you seeing a pattern here at all? :

How about some let off demanding the right to party and we can get off the roller coaster a bit earlier?

Borrowed this lad :pac: reckon he's better off here

I think you've just accidentally agreed with me :pac:

19-02-2021 04:10PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So when do you think it is appropriate to reopen? The virus isn't going away. Considering the statistics/data, surely you'd agree that once the elderly and medically vulnerable are vaccinated, we'll have to simply get on with it and "live with the virus"?

Yes. With some management due to risk of hospitalisation in under 65s which is still significant, back towards a level 2 by May should be on the cards. Then once we get towards half the population vaccinated even moreso.

wakka12 · 19-02-2021 04:11PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

Not a single country in this part of the world have avoided a winter surge, no matter what the restrictions.

These lockdown advocates think we should have stayed in level 5 right through from the 3rd week in Oct to May it seems....utterly psychotic stuff.

No matter when we opened, no matter what we did, we were getting a winter surge.

They have, Finland and Norway have not had any surge, winter, spring, summer or autumn

growleaves · 19-02-2021 04:12PM

SAMTALK wrote: »

These kind of statements don't bring anything to the argument.

The flip side to that is the majority of Irish People are trying to do the right thing and trying to do their bit for our society maybe ?

And silly you the majority of people know they can't go to dingle as its outside the 5k !

Looking for Fungie is considered an essential activity.

C.O.Y.B.I.B · 19-02-2021 04:12PM

Hooked wrote: »

I'll be fully back to normal again tomorrow... watching Liverpool vs Everton with the lads having a few beers... We're all in our 40's and able to decide for ourselves with regards to taking calculated risks with a flu-like virus, which has a 99.91% survival rate (in IRELAND) with under 65's.

Joseph Goebbels (Mr. Nazi propaganda) was asked at the Nuremberg trials:
"how did you dupe so many Germans", to which he replied: "it's amazing what you can get people to do when they are in a state of true fear"

Which is great for you , however other people's normal involves , going to matches,golf , kids sports , pubs , restaurants , holidays ,visiting vulnerable relatives . None of this is possible at the minute regardless of whether an individual wants to or not . The more that people "bend the rules" to suit themselves the longer it will be before we get those things back .

dalyboy · 19-02-2021 04:14PM

The straw has broken the camels back in my family following the reptilian like tactic of a 10pm announcement of further 9 weeks on a tabloid toilet paper rag.

Following a conversation with my parents this morning I’m packing my kids into the car tomorrow and travelling a 10km distance to their house for a few nights.

It’s as simple as this . If I’m to continue isolating my kids , myself & O.H , & my parents we will be mentally end up unhinged by 9 weeks.

I was originally going to await my parents vaccinations (early 70’s) but that’ll take till about July at this point.
NO WAY HOSEY am I waiting any longer now

As mature and responsible adults we have tallied up the risk (Zero risk since nobody has left their respective houses since end of December, save for daily walks in parks and accepting supermarket food delivery at the front doors) and reward.

When I read that article last night I almost got sick with that smiling face and pompous pose on Martin staring out at me.
Something had to give , and it did.

I’ve a responsibility as a parent , a partner, an off spring and business owner to ensure that sense and balance is applied to operate my families lives in a liveable fashion so thank you Mr Martin for motivating me with your expose on the mirror paper. I feel so much better today for committing to changing things to the better our way NOT YOUR WAY

Tork · 19-02-2021 04:15PM

Bigfatmichael wrote: »

You lose credit for thinking that Ireland with a population of 4,900,000 million should be locked up when the average age of death from Corona is 83, .

750 in hospital, 150 in ICU and vacinnes been rolled but should keep everything shut.

People are suffering big time, education, finances, mental health

Wow, talk about projection.

Hooked · 19-02-2021 04:18PM

gozunda wrote: »

We are little more than a month out from having the highest rates of infection in the world.

And all because of the pressure of people demanding a break for Christmas when rules around household mixing were eased, and limits on travel between counties temporarily lifted and as result we got shafted with rising numbers of people infected with Covid. And add to this a new more infectious strain of the virus, first detected in the UK, spreading here and the current case numbers now being difficult to get back down

'But fuk it I haven't seen my friends since Christmas' ...

I mean what could possibly go wrong ...

:rolleyes:

Household visits at Xmas, me arse! The rise in cases is because we IMPORTED the now 90%+ confirmed cases of the UK strain (since Xmas)... and also Jan/Feb are traditionally flu season.

gozunda · 19-02-2021 04:19PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

This has already been discussed ad nauseam.
The government opened up in December as much to save their own skins as they did to give the people a break. They knew that whether they lifted the restrictions or not, people were still going to mix and mingle.
When MM promised that the 6 week ‘circuit breaker’ (and 3 weeks of level 3.5 before that) would save Christmas and allow us to spend some meaningful time with our families, he couldn’t go back on that without looking weak.
It would have been political suicide to cancel Christmas after making a promise like that.
All that pre Christmas lockdown did was cause huge demand for pretty much everything by the time December rolled around.
We were barely a day back into level 3 when they started warning us that returning to level 5 was imminent again, meaning people made the most of the brief period of respite.

People aren’t robots and human nature must be accounted for. What happened at Christmas is not remotely surprising considering the way it was handled.

Has it? Then why do we have some eejits claiming no one has been able to see anyone in a year? Or that they need to be allowed go travelling etc etc . despite the "meaningful Christmas" :rolleyes:

But what you're saying we're fuked no matter what the Government does because "human nature must be accounted for" and some peoples right to party or meet up with friends or whatever ?

But yes all because of the pressure from people demanding a break for Christmas when rules around household mixing were eased, and limits on travel between counties were lifted - we're now shafted with rising numbers of people infected with Covid. And add to this a new more infectious strain of the virus, first detected in the UK, spreading here and the current case numbers now being difficult to get back down.

But fuk that we need another break. What could possibly go wrong again?

C.O.Y.B.I.B · 19-02-2021 04:19PM

C.O.Y.B.I.B wrote: »

Which is great for you , however other people's normal involves , going to matches,golf , kids sports , pubs , restaurants , holidays ,visiting vulnerable relatives . None of this is possible at the minute regardless of whether an individual wants to or not . The more that people "bend the rules" to suit themselves the longer it will be before we get those things back .

To add to this , for me it's not about the death rate . Im also in my 40s and have no doubt Covid wouldnt kill me if I got , but a fit and healthy friend of mine who had Covid at Christmas still struggles and is out of breath walking up a flight of stairs . I'm all for lifting restrictions sensibly but I'm not willing to risk my health for the sake of a few cans .

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII Read OP For Mod Warnings