The way forward for LC2021

Treppen wrote: »

You have to sit the History & Politics & Sociology & Psychology & Methodology & Philosophy Exam . Then get the course assessed by the teaching council.
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Or put your name down here

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058147974/1/#post115850681

Got there before me.

Newbie20 wrote: »

I got an e-mail saying that the ASTI Standing Committee has decided to canvass members regarding their views on the Departments dual process.

My own personal opinion is that we just need to move on with it now. ASTI coming out next week and saying we won’t play ball will just have us all back not knowing whats happening. I’d rather move on now with LCs knowing what’s happening even if it’s not the perfect solution.

The oral plan needs to be tightened up

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Probably reflects a high number doing OL Irish more than anything else and not needing it for points. Maths on the other hand, more important to pass that for college entry although there are probably similar numbers doing OL in comparison to Irish.

On the question of similar number doing OL Maths and Irish - I suspect you'd be in the majority in that assumption. It is badly wrong though. More students take Irish at HL than OL. In Maths twice as many take OL than HL. While the subjects do vie in the minds of many students as their "seventh" subject (the OL one), there is no comparison between the relative take-up at HL broadly speaking.

In fact Irish stands up remarkably for a non-choice subject. History has about 25% doing OL each year even though they choose the subject. Geography has almost 20% doing OL. Every subject of course has its own specific context which might explain the figures but they still are the figures. (Figures based on LC 2018 & 2019)

All that said, there is a powerful argument for any student to not take the exam in OL Irish. In the written paper anyone capable of getting a really high grade (an O2 or O1) will get far handier points at HL without having to be amazing. There are also many who'll do okay in short-term, context-specific tests where they know what's coming up and might garner an acceptable grade for a teacher as a consequence, which in an exam with an Oral and Aural might be far more challenging. The same I would argue could apply to many HL students but that's getting a long way from the point I came to make when I was replying in the first instance.

Can I please ask teachers here to make an educated guess for me, as I'm assuming the Dept havent issued guidelines yet. Do ye think that the bulk of the material used for predicted grades will come from work already done in class /online, or will students be able to make much difference to their grades by the standard of work they do in the short while from now til May? We were wondering about this yesterday, as at a guess (who knows) we think my son might be looking at H3/H4 in most subjects. He wants to try for primary teaching ( it's a long shot for him, no matter how we look at it). I don't know much about it really, but one look at points tells me he would want to have H1s/H2s to stand a chance. Realistically, would he have much chance of upping his grade if he starts to improve his coursework from now on? Also, is it doable for a student currently performing at H3 level, to study hard and up it to H1/H2 in the written exam? ( He certainly hasn't been stretched at the H3, but it's been a very difficult time for the family, so study has taken a back seat lately) I'm not sure what to advise him. A family member is undergoing chemo so do I even send him back to school, never mind sit exam! I think if there's a chance of making a grade difference from now onwards perhaps he will just go CG ......oh one final question. He thinks his worst grade will come from a subject where he has had no teacher in 6th year. Apparently a teacher could not be found for them. Had a few subs here and there, but mainly just reading text book themselves, as subs weren't for that subject. Who would usually predict that grade in such a situation? He hasnt much of a clue but wondering should he start from scratch, try to devour textbook and sit exam or would PG tend to be kind to them given their lack of tuition? Sorry this is so garbled, just spilling out thoughts as they come to mind. I know this isn't an easy time for teachers, goodness knows how they will manage classes now with the 2 separate strands of students. Having said that though, just thinking of my own child now I really hope there won't be any problems with the unions as really just need to get through the next few weeks now.

carr62 wrote: »

Can I please ask teachers here to make an educated guess for me, as I'm assuming the Dept havent issued guidelines yet. Do ye think that the bulk of the material used for predicted grades will come from work already done in class /online, or will students be able to make much difference to their grades by the standard of work they do in the short while from now til May? We were wondering about this yesterday, as at a guess (who knows) we think my son might be looking at H3/H4 in most subjects. He wants to try for primary teaching ( it's a long shot for him, no matter how we look at it). I don't know much about it really, but one look at points tells me he would want to have H1s/H2s to stand a chance. Realistically, would he have much chance of upping his grade if he starts to improve his coursework from now on? Also, is it doable for a student currently performing at H3 level, to study hard and up it to H1/H2 in the written exam? ( He certainly hasn't been stretched at the H3, but it's been a very difficult time for the family, so study has taken a back seat lately) I'm not sure what to advise him. A family member is undergoing chemo so do I even send him back to school, never mind sit exam! I think if there's a chance of making a grade difference from now onwards perhaps he will just go CG ......oh one final question. He thinks his worst grade will come from a subject where he has had no teacher in 6th year. Apparently a teacher could not be found for them. Had a few subs here and there, but mainly just reading text book themselves, as subs weren't for that subject. Who would usually predict that grade in such a situation? He hasnt much of a clue but wondering should he start from scratch, try to devour textbook and sit exam or would PG tend to be kind to them given their lack of tuition? Sorry this is so garbled, just spilling out thoughts as they come to mind. I know this isn't an easy time for teachers, goodness knows how they will manage classes now with the 2 separate strands of students. Having said that though, just thinking of my own child now I really hope there won't be any problems with the unions as really just need to get through the next few weeks now.

Few things. For primary there's a minimum grade needed for Irish and Maths so focus on that first. With these I think it would be important to not just rely on predicted grades, the grade a teacher awards may not necessarily be the one they end up with, especially after the teachers grade gets put into the department's algorithm washing machine. Hence it might be prudent to sit these subjects in the exam and take the best grade.

With the other subjects it's just so hard to advise. Obviously you'll want to take the stress off and not be sitting all 7 subjects in June/whenever. It's going to be very hard for parents and students to get any advice from subject teachers without letting the cat out of the bag and telling them what grade they're getting... if that happens it could cause a riot in the school and media are only waiting for those stories.

But yes they'll have to take past work into account...BUT THERE'S HOPE... ensure your child improves on their previous grades when they do mocks. This would indicate to a teacher that their grade could be on the upward trend if they keep engaging with classes and coursework etc. If I saw a student was H3 standard at Christmas, then very good H2 at mocks then there is a chance they could swing it on the day... Although it mightnt work out that way if I thought all my class were in line for H1s as a result... The department algorithm would ensure bump downs again.

As I mentioned earlier, mocks are going to become very important.

As regards not having a teacher this is a very serious issue and shows up the inequality and inherent flaw in this predicted grades system. Write and ask your local TDs and minister and demand from the school how they are going to account for this. I know there is probably no solution but I find principals have way more clout than teachers. I'll bet you will find the same old issue of external teachers coming forward to back up claims for the extra subjects, homeschooling and grinds outside the timetable.

But ya 3 bare months left, tell him put in the work and engage like hell with the teachers by doing all the assignments etc. Just to be sexist (and I can bet other teachers share my opinion), girls can be more consistent and easier to predict with grades. Boys can do f'all for two years and swing the lead but cram like crazy in a few months to get a good grade.

carr62 wrote: »

Can I please ask teachers here to make an educated guess for me, as I'm assuming the Dept havent issued guidelines yet. Do ye think that the bulk of the material used for predicted grades will come from work already done in class /online, or will students be able to make much difference to their grades by the standard of work they do in the short while from now til May? We were wondering about this yesterday, as at a guess (who knows) we think my son might be looking at H3/H4 in most subjects. He wants to try for primary teaching ( it's a long shot for him, no matter how we look at it). I don't know much about it really, but one look at points tells me he would want to have H1s/H2s to stand a chance. Realistically, would he have much chance of upping his grade if he starts to improve his coursework from now on? Also, is it doable for a student currently performing at H3 level, to study hard and up it to H1/H2 in the written exam? ( He certainly hasn't been stretched at the H3, but it's been a very difficult time for the family, so study has taken a back seat lately) I'm not sure what to advise him. A family member is undergoing chemo so do I even send him back to school, never mind sit exam! I think if there's a chance of making a grade difference from now onwards perhaps he will just go CG ......oh one final question. He thinks his worst grade will come from a subject where he has had no teacher in 6th year. Apparently a teacher could not be found for them. Had a few subs here and there, but mainly just reading text book themselves, as subs weren't for that subject. Who would usually predict that grade in such a situation? He hasnt much of a clue but wondering should he start from scratch, try to devour textbook and sit exam or would PG tend to be kind to them given their lack of tuition? Sorry this is so garbled, just spilling out thoughts as they come to mind. I know this isn't an easy time for teachers, goodness knows how they will manage classes now with the 2 separate strands of students. Having said that though, just thinking of my own child now I really hope there won't be any problems with the unions as really just need to get through the next few weeks now.

Make sure that they meet the minimum requirements for entry to primary teaching. That way even if they don't make it and end up in something else the post grad route is still open to them. Personally think that it the correct way to enter teaching but I would be biased in my view on that.

km79 wrote: »

Most schools won’t run mocks
Doesn’t make sense to give over 1-2 weeks of classroom time to practice for exams a lot of students won’t do in various subjects

I'd be surprised if they don't. If u want to predict grades and avoid hassle afterwards, the biggest predictor of LC is Mocks. All the others are Mickey Mouse in comparison, but sure I can look at some students in 1st year and predict LC grades

Alex86Eire wrote: »

I had 14 students downgraded last year. I gave very realistic marks (too realistic) and had plenty of evidence to back up my marks. Some teachers had students downgraded two grades. Students can't rely on what they think their teacher will give them. It was our schools worst year for results in quite a while.

I get that there are potential downgrades but the written LC done across all subjects is a big undertaking. Lots of people underperform due to juggling the sheer workload.

To my mind it's a golden opportunity for many students to ditch subjects they would not set the world alight in in the exam anyway and concentrate on their best ones. That way they'd probably offset any possible downgrade. And maybe downgrades wouldn't happen. I had 24 in my class last year and none were downgraded while three were upgraded.

Rosita wrote: »

I get that there are potential downgrades but the written LC done across all subjects is a big undertaking. Lots of people underperform due to juggling the sheer workload.

To my mind it's a golden opportunity for many students to ditch subjects they would not set the world alight in in the exam anyway and concentrate on their best ones. That way they'd probably offset any possible downgrade. And maybe downgrades wouldn't happen. I had 24 in my class last year and none were downgraded while three were upgraded.

There will be a lot of teachers angry from last year trying to ensure students get their fair grade. I'm not saying all 100% but you might be more on the optimistic side of things and place in the upper bound . Last year there was a big Hullabaloo and we were explicitly told that it wasn't to be predicted based "on their very best day with the most favourable questions coming up across the paper".
It's not an exact science.

I’m torn on the mocks situation. On one hand it’s usually the best indicator you have from all results and it gives them a trial run for the Leaving.
But between the mocks probably being available somewhere online and the fact that they can do them while having books open at home, the results just can’t be trusted. Are schools that were proceeding with them doing them at home? That’s what ours were supposed to be doing. We’ll hear Monday if there’s any change to that. It’s messy.
If you knew for definite that we were back with 6th on the 1st of March, it could be an option to do them then in school.
But it’s quite late then to be losing class time and Easter is fast approaching.

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Dunno bout other teachers but I wouldn't be relying too much on assessments between now and end of year.

I've had most of my 6th years since 1st/2nd and I have data already from class tests, midterms, Xmas 2019/2020 and you'd know your students anyway from observation while engaging with class-based work.

I've a good idea how they'll do already.

On the other hand, I rarely get junior classes because I teach 2 LC subjects and TYs, so I often only teach students for the first time in fifth year. Lots of students knuckle down after the mocks and I'd say with the announcement yesterday there will be a flurry of work in the coming weeks.

I take your point that for a lot of students you have a fair idea of how they will do, but I personally wouldn't be finalising any results for a couple of months yet.

We got an email from the ETBI this morning via our principal that sets out a timeline for May. It says student work can be considered for PG up to 14th May. It also confirms schools close on 28th May and the first week of June is for PG alignment process.


One interesting point in it says

The SEC Accredited Grade and examinations outcomes will have regard
to the pattern of results in 2020 and previously, with more details of the
process to be determined by the Minister having regard to advice from
the SEC