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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Comments

  • #8942
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 966 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    “The most effective way to do it economically and for the beautician and the publican working in a bar or a pub is to defeat the virus. The most effective way we can do that is by restrictions for as long as we can possibly hold it, along with the vaccination roll-out, there’s no other easy way against Covid-19."

    So, according to Martin, the best way to "do it economically" for beauticians and publicans is to keep their businesses closed for most of the year? This is laughably insulting. I propose that the best way to "do it economically" for politicians is to transfer them all to the PUP for duration of restrictions. Would save the country a fortune.


  • #8943
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,089 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    For most working in beauticians and pubs the PUP is a huge percentage of their wages. Different story for the owners of course.


  • #8944
    RobitTV
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭RobitTV


    The level of anger and frustration on the radio today is quite something. My local station is getting calls from anxious parents who are worried about the mental health of their children. Many of the kids are no longer motivated and some have been crying and staying in bed all day. They have no motivation for learning at home anymore and they miss seeing friends and playing outside like normal children.

    The radio station was bombarded with texts agreeing with the desperate parents and showing sympathy with them. Mental health is collapsing in this country for many young and isolated people.

    Another 9 weeks and then we are told 'maybe' things can improve by then. The same old PR spin.

    There is too much focus on covid cases all the time. People need to step back from the cliff edge and stop worrying over the amount of cases each and every day that they see broadcast on the television.


  • #8945
    paw patrol
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,312 ✭✭✭paw patrol


    Augeo wrote: »
    For most working in beauticians and pubs the PUP is a huge percentage of their wages. Different story for the owners of course.

    How many do you know in this industry?

    my mate's gf is a hairdresser and the PUP is 50% of her pay . then throw in tips she isn't getting.
    Another kicker is my mate (her partner) is in construction and he down over 1k a week cos of the closures. You can imagine the pain of that household.
    mortgage arrears stacking up and all that.
    Both happy to take the any covid risk but their life decisions are decided for by an unelected technocracy,

    where is their bailout? we all know the answer to that.:rolleyes:

    I've a mate a barman of year experience PUP doesn't come close.

    I suggest you mightn't know the real story or taking young people in their 20s as your sample size.


  • #8946
    Seweryn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,506 ✭✭✭Seweryn


    SnuggyBear wrote: »
    Are you forgetting how screwed they are every January?
    Exactly...

    People seem to completely forget about every other winter season from the past.

    An example here.


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  • #8947
    ArthurDayne
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,966 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    Boggles wrote: »
    You are overthinking it again.

    In what way? If the issue of the impact of the domestic and global shutdown is so simple, to the extent a few paragraphs is “overthinking it”, then I presume that you can simplify it for me?

    People are talking about the New Roaring Twenties, and I think that we will almost undoubtedly see a boom after the pandemic. But people should remember how the Twenties ended — and how the Thirties began. We are standing on the precipice of a new world where the fundamental assumptions about how societies and economies function (most particularly, how people work) are now utterly blowing in the wind. The challenge we face is that there are some who can withstand that wind (well qualified in-demand professionals with almost total working flexibility), and many many many more who will simply be blown wherever the wind takes them, with little to no control.

    The more people feel they lose control, the more likely they are to veer towards anger and resentment (think of how effective the slogan “Take Back Control” was in England). The more they veer that way, the greater the potential for radical and even extremist politics to simmer away beneath the Great Post-Covid Boom, and perhaps explode in time.


  • #8948
    MOH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,471 ✭✭✭MOH


    paw patrol wrote: »
    it's very disheartening to see how big the subservient group is?
    In case I'm accused of it, not you :pac:

    But seriously, the number of people living in fear of covid19 and just content to outsource all their decisions to the government.
    Somehow we as a nation have bred a large section of society emotionally dependent on the state to verify their action in a similar way to some families are for unable to function without the welfare state.

    cos you know most of the same people will be in the restaurants/bars immediately if the government said they could open.
    As is Michael Martins mere voice on tv would diminish the risk of covid death.


    On related point, yesterday I saw fools jogging with masks in the park like wtf?
    Certainly not the median age 83 cohort either.

    And that's exactly what got us to where we are. There's been little encouragement to consider your own situation and take whatever measures are necessary to protect yourself and those around you. The focus has all been on "the rules".

    "We know best. Obey these restrictions. No, not those ones, they were last week. Yes, we published a plan and sent it out to everyone, but ignore that too, now follow these new restrictions. Don't think about it, just obey.... OK, now we'll have a break from some of the restrictions.... Oh, who could possibly have predicted this disaster? You're all bad people for doing what we said. Six more months of restrictions for you."

    And as a result, there seem to be quite a lot of people who genuinely believed meeting in restaurants at Christmas was perfectly safe. And that spending two hours sitting across the table from someone would magically protect them from Covid, even though in any other circumstances they'd by considered a close contact after 15 minutes. Because the government said it was OK.

    Because Tony banging on relentlessly about alcohol, or leaving the country, or whatever his bete noir of the week is, and the government repeating his mantra, just focuses people on that and leaves them thinking whatever is permitted must be perfectly safe.

    Instead of encouraging people to take personal responsibility and consider how their actions and individual circumstances might affect others, which might make some restrictions irrelevant for them but mean in other cases they need to take additional measures.


  • #8949
    RobitTV
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭RobitTV


    https://twitter.com/Ciano_Gallagher/status/1362700024010932225


  • #8950
    badger54
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22 ✭badger54


    Seems increasingly doubtful that construction will return, as previously signposted, from March 5th.

    Independent reports that "A small amount of construction may be permitted next month but most restrictions will remain in place until the end of April or start of May. Restrictions will be reviewed in early April."

    A small amount? Like what? How? Housing to return on phased basis?

    While the situation, and the Christmas debacle, clearly merits tough action can't we have a little more clarity!


  • #8951
    Captain Pillowcase
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 88 ✭✭Captain Pillowcase


    normanoffside wrote: »
    I suggest everyone who wrote to their TDs does a follow up now to let them know they have had enough and won’t be following 9 more weeks of level 5. Let them know you are planning to disregard it and protest.

    I emailed them today, also thought I would add Tony Holohan, Ronan Glynn and few other in the CMO office to it also.

    I was looking into some articles for reference to back up what I was putting in the email and I came across this little nugget.

    On the travel restrictions, Martin said “there is no remaining serious justification for the 5 kilometre limit”.

    “The public health concern is how people behave around others – not how far they are from their home. In fact, the research shows that this limit may in fact be forcing people in urban areas into more crowded situations.”     * Edit: see another poster has linked this above as well!!!

    The thought of facing another 9 weeks of this drudgery is depressing.


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  • #8952
    Penfailed
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,695 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    Ronald Franz wrote: »
    I appreciate you want to keep your comfort level but open your mind to 'possibilities'.

    There's a whole thread dedicated to it in the Conspiracy Theories forum.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES, And So I Watch You From Afar

    Gigs '25 - Spiritualized, Supergrass, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Queens of the Stone Age, Electric Picnic, Vantastival, Getdown Services, And So I Watch You From Afar



  • #8953
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 966 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    RobitTV wrote: »
    .
    Another 9 weeks and then we are told 'maybe' things can improve by then. The same old PR spin.

    Aside from the fact that these politicians are grossly incompetent, what I find worse is them making an absolute mockery of people with the "just a few more months and we'll reassess", continuous 'carrot on a stick' type nonsense.
    The real question is, how long until people just ignore their restrictions completely? I've been saying this for a while and had a thread merged into this one re: same. The whole thing ends when everybody just ignores their restrictions.

    I'm not saying people should go out now and start throwing house parties. But, after the elderly and medically vulnerable are vaccinated, I cannot see any reason to continue with all of this. Age and death statistics from Covid back that up. After vaccination of the vulnerable, the lives and futures of many simply must take precedence over the lives of few.


  • #8954
    francogarbanzo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 365 ✭✭francogarbanzo


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Aside from the fact that these politicians are grossly incompetent, what I find worse is them making an absolute mockery of people with the "just a few more months and we'll reassess", continuous 'carrot on a stick' type nonsense.
    The real question is, how long until people just ignore their restrictions completely? I've been saying this for a while and had a thread merged into this one re: same. The whole thing ends when everybody just ignores their restrictions.

    I'm not saying people should go out now and start throwing house parties. But, after the elderly and medically vulnerable are vaccinated, I cannot see any reason to continue with all of this. Age and death statistics from Covid back that up. After vaccination of the vulnerable, the lives and futures of many simply must take precedence over the lives of few.

    As of today, I've had enough. I'm making plans to meet up with friends this weekend, either at my house or boozing outside somewhere.


  • #8955
    Klonker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,669 ✭✭✭Klonker


    I don't get why NPHET and the government are planning to open schools so slowly. As far as I remember they said schools are safe and didn't want to close them in the first place but were basically forced to by teachers unions and parent's groups. So why the big change? Also case numbers are also lower than when we went into level 5 in October when we didn't close schools at all.

    All schools should be opened fully from 1st March, this easing back into it will be a mess. Teachers in secondary schools will have to be on site for their 6th year classes and also monitoring online (or whatever way remote teaching works) at the same time. It's just going to cause more issues than it solves.


  • #8956
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    MOH wrote: »
    And that's exactly what got us to where we are. There's been little encouragement to consider your own situation and take whatever measures are necessary to protect yourself and those around you. The focus has all been on "the rules".

    "We know best. Obey these restrictions. No, not those ones, they were last week. Yes, we published a plan and sent it out to everyone, but ignore that too, now follow these new restrictions. Don't think about it, just obey.... OK, now we'll have a break from some of the restrictions.... Oh, who could possibly have predicted this disaster? You're all bad people for doing what we said. Six more months of restrictions for you."

    And as a result, there seem to be quite a lot of people who genuinely believed meeting in restaurants at Christmas was perfectly safe. And that spending two hours sitting across the table from someone would magically protect them from Covid, even though in any other circumstances they'd by considered a close contact after 15 minutes. Because the government said it was OK.

    Because Tony banging on relentlessly about alcohol, or leaving the country, or whatever his bete noir of the week is, and the government repeating his mantra, just focuses people on that and leaves them thinking whatever is permitted must be perfectly safe.

    Instead of encouraging people to take personal responsibility and consider how their actions and individual circumstances might affect others, which might make some restrictions irrelevant for them but mean in other cases they need to take additional measures.

    I would be all for encouraging the Irish people to take personal responsibility.
    Worked well at Christmas.

    Many Irish people abdicate personal responsibility to the state. "But the goberment never told me" is a common refrain. Its why we have a massive compo culture - "I did something stupid, it must be someones fault"


  • #8957
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    There is huge money in hairdressing and other beauty services. They are expensive treatments, and a lot of them work off commission too.

    The lady who does my eyelashes charges €100 for a fresh set and €50 for refills, most of her clients come back every 3 weeks. She works 10 hours a day, 6 days a week.
    The PUP isn’t a drop in the ocean compared to what she usually earns.
    It wouldn’t be uncommon for those with a solid client base to be taking in a couple of grand a week in this industry.


  • #8958
    RobitTV
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭RobitTV


    UK: Over-40s to get Covid jabs by the end of March: Vaccine age bands will be widened in next phase of the rollout - with no priority for key workers


  • #8959
    Ronald Franz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34 ✭Ronald Franz


    Penfailed wrote: »
    There's a whole thread dedicated to it in the Conspiracy Theories forum.

    I know, but this thread is about relaxing of restrictions, and I gave my opinion on it in relation to reopening. My previous post was a response message. I'm not going to respond to someone here in a seperate thread.


  • #8960
    RobitTV
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭RobitTV


    UK: Government 'increasingly positive' that Brits will be able to have a foreign break this year amid hopes vaccine passport will make international travel 'straightforward'

    Ministers are 'increasingly positive' that foreign summer holidays will be possible this year amid hopes vaccine passports will soon make international travel 'straightforward'.

    There is said to be growing optimism in Whitehall that trips abroad will be allowed in the coming months.

    It is thought some countries could require proof of vaccination as a condition for quarantine-free travel in the future.


  • #8961
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ArthurDayne wrote: »
    In what way? If the issue of the impact of the domestic and global shutdown is so simple, to the extent a few paragraphs is “overthinking it”, then I presume that you can simplify it for me?

    People are talking about the New Roaring Twenties, and I think that we will almost undoubtedly see a boom after the pandemic. But people should remember how the Twenties ended — and how the Thirties began. We are standing on the precipice of a new world where the fundamental assumptions about how societies and economies function (most particularly, how people work) are now utterly blowing in the wind. The challenge we face is that there are some who can withstand that wind (well qualified in-demand professionals with almost total working flexibility), and many many many more who will simply be blown wherever the wind takes them, with little to no control.

    The more people feel they lose control, the more likely they are to veer towards anger and resentment (think of how effective the slogan “Take Back Control” was in England). The more they veer that way, the greater the potential for radical and even extremist politics to simmer away beneath the Great Post-Covid Boom, and perhaps explode in time.

    The great depression was a consequence of economic policy and not the post WW1 /Spanish Epidemic boom.

    The post WW2 US economic boom highlighted how the lessons of the 20's had been learned and a sustained economic boom followed until the oil crisis put paid to that 25 years later.


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  • #8962
    Meirleach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 253 ✭✭Meirleach


    This is a joke. We've been in and out of this for nearly a solid year now. The main justification for these additional lockdowns seems to be how quickly our ICU capacity gets swamped when restrictions get lowered.

    It's very simple, any release in restrictions will cause an increase in ICU usage, so why oh why have we spun up so little additional ICU capacity.

    Sweden doubled their capacity, last time I'd checked we'd added something tiny like 20-40 beds.


  • #8963
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,566 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    SusieBlue wrote: »
    There is huge money in hairdressing and other beauty services. They are expensive treatments, and a lot of them work off commission too.

    The lady who does my eyelashes charges €100 for a fresh set and €50 for refills, most of her clients come back every 3 weeks. She works 10 hours a day, 6 days a week.
    The PUP isn’t a drop in the ocean compared to what she usually earns.
    It wouldn’t be uncommon for those with a solid client base to be taking in a couple of grand a week in this industry.

    If she is a legitimate business.

    She's allowed to claim up to 5,000 a week on her 2019 turnover.

    Plus she entitled to a raft of grants and loans.


  • #8964
    Hellrazer
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    Originally Posted by hynesie08 View Post
    https://mobile.twitter.com/MaryERega...15744793923584

    Tanaiste "expects hospitality to reopen during summer months"
    I cant believe a word out of Leos mouth - I really think he has a problem with telling the truth or even keeping up with government policy!!

    Mehole will come along tomorrow and say "hospitality wont be opening until November and we`ll have a "meaningful Christmas"

    Tony will come along and say the next "two decades" are crucial and we`ll still be here in lock down number 25 while the world gets on with things.
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=116327063&postcount=8548

    Well I was wrong - It wasnt mehole.

    It was Dopey Donnelly that burst the bubble.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40229837.html


    They havent a breeze and theres no cohesion between what the lot of them tell the media!!!

    You couldnt make this sh1t up!!


  • #8965
    walus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭walus


    Graham wrote: »
    Go on then, what's the logic behind this little conspiracy theory?
    Penfailed wrote: »
    There's a whole thread dedicated to it in the Conspiracy Theories forum.

    You guys sound like a broken record. End this 'conspiracy theory' bs.

    Do you really see everybody with different opinions to your own as a conspiracy theorist?
    You need to understand that some of us, those more open minded see the world's affairs differently to what RTE proclaims they are.

    ”Where’s the revolution? Come on, people you’re letting me down!”



  • #8966
    TomTomTim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    Ronald Franz wrote: »
    I know, but this thread is about relaxing of restrictions, and I gave my opinion on it in relation to reopening. My previous post was a response message. I'm not going to respond to someone here in a seperate thread.

    They weren't trying to be informative, they were trying and succeeding at being condescending and insulting.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • #8967
    ypres5
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,168 ✭✭✭ypres5


    walus wrote: »
    You guys sound like a broken record. End this 'conspiracy theory' bs.

    Do you really see everybody with different opinions to your own as a conspiracy theorist?
    You need to understand that some of us, those more open minded see the world's affairs differently to what RTE proclaims they are.

    the funny thing is if anyone had predicted what the government said last night a week ago they'd have been branded hysterical and a conspiracy theorist.


  • #8968
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    Boggles wrote: »
    If she is a legitimate business.

    She's allowed to claim up to 5,000 a week on her 2019 turnover.

    Plus she entitled to a raft of grants and loans.

    Yeah I was replying to someone who was saying that those the beauty industry wouldn’t have been earning much more than the €350 PUP payments anyway.

    I have no idea what grants or loans she’s getting, if any, I was just highlighting how it isn’t as low paid as people seem to think.


  • #8969
    Penfailed
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,695 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    walus wrote: »
    You guys sound like a broken record. End this 'conspiracy theory' bs.

    Do you really see everybody with different opinions to your own as a conspiracy theorist?
    You need to understand that some of us, those more open minded see the world's affairs differently to what RTE proclaims they are.

    The poster I was responding to referred to the 'great reset'. I responded to say that there was a thread dedicated to it in the CT forum. What's the problem?
    I'm perfectly open minded. I've read up on the WEF and the GR. I don't think the pandemic was manufactured to bring about a GR. It is however an excellent time to instigate a change in how we do things in future. That's a good thing. Anyway...back on topic.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES, And So I Watch You From Afar

    Gigs '25 - Spiritualized, Supergrass, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Queens of the Stone Age, Electric Picnic, Vantastival, Getdown Services, And So I Watch You From Afar



  • #8970
    Penfailed
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,695 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    ypres5 wrote: »
    the funny thing is if anyone had predicted what the government said last night a week ago they'd have been branded hysterical and a conspiracy theorist.

    You are confusing two separate issues.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES, And So I Watch You From Afar

    Gigs '25 - Spiritualized, Supergrass, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Queens of the Stone Age, Electric Picnic, Vantastival, Getdown Services, And So I Watch You From Afar



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  • #8971
    francogarbanzo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 365 ✭✭francogarbanzo


    Penfailed wrote: »
    The poster I was responding to referred to the 'great reset'. I responded to say that there was a thread dedicated to it in the CT forum. What's the problem?
    I'm perfectly open minded. I've read up on the WEF and the GR. I don't think the pandemic was manufactured to bring about a GR. It is however an excellent time to instigate a change in how we do things in future. That's a good thing. Anyway...back on topic.

    "The Great Reset is nothing but a conspiracy theory."

    Also

    "Now is a great time to change how we do things!"


This discussion has been closed.
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