The way forward for LC2021

kermitpwee · 18-02-2021 09:23PM

I can't actually believe there is teachers posting on this thread. Cop yourself on. You haven't been giving the guidelines for calculating the grades yet so stop speculating and act like a professional. It's embarrassing.

Str8outtaWuhan · 18-02-2021 09:24PM

skippy1977 wrote: »

Going to very interesting to see how things work in practice for the next 3 months. From a teacher's perspective I presume the mindset should be that there is an exam and I prep for that and try and ignore any other noise until May when I sit down to predict a grade? The students obviously have a big decision to make, on a subject by subject basis, but the teacher has to just get on with it, whether that be 20 in front of them, or 2. For planning it would be useful however to know what students are going to do...and soon. Like if I have to prep the whole class for the exam, that involves differentiated learning and moving at a slower pace, through topics we have yet to cover. If there are only 2 then I can plan specifically for them and what they are hoping to achieve.

I have Ordinary level Maths this year could see only a couple sitting the exam, most are happy to pass. In truth I'd actually be surprised if any of them sat it.
Will they be made take part in lessons in school in subjects they have no intention of sitting? Let's say 20 are sitting in front of you and 15 ask to study as they aren't sitting Maths? I guess I would be inclined to let them but am I right in saying that students need to still engage for the next while as performance in school until May will still be factored into a predicted grade?

Just thinking aloud here as it will be very interesting to see some guidance on these finer points, and it is very difficult for us to plan anything until we do.

if they do nothing for next 3 months will you still pass them?

Wombatman · 18-02-2021 09:27PM

trihead wrote: »

Students will have access to the portal from the early March to make their choice.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1362468261074530310

She is saying you can choose either:

1. Accredited Grade
2. Exam
3. Both

Why in the name of jeepers would anybody pick 2?

This suggests that all students choosing to do the exam won't have the safety net of PGs.

Terribly confusing. I was under the impression all students choosing the exam would get PGs.

r93kaey5p2izun · 18-02-2021 09:28PM

I see there is reference again to predicting the likely grade in the conventional exams, had Covid not disrupted teaching and learning. That is very complicated, given Covid has disrupted everything since last March, even when school buildings were open. That is going to need a lot more clarification.

skippy1977 · 18-02-2021 09:28PM

kermitpwee wrote: »

I can't actually believe there is teachers posting on this thread. Cop yourself on. You haven't been giving the guidelines for calculating the grades yet so stop speculating and act like a professional. It's embarrassing.

I'm not sure if that is in reference to my post above but I am sitting here at 8pm during the holidays making out plans for all of my classes for the next 6 weeks leading up to Easter. I'm posting on a 'Teaching and Lecturing' forum, to chat about what fellow teachers are thinking in terms of their own planning for the next few weeks. Monday I'll be teaching my 6th Years so just looking for a bit of a chat about it...on a forum...about teaching. I'm a bit lost on what point you are making in the post above.

am_zarathustra · 18-02-2021 09:29PM

kermitpwee wrote: »

I can't actually believe there is teachers posting on this thread. Cop yourself on. You haven't been giving the guidelines for calculating the grades yet so stop speculating and act like a professional. It's embarrassing.

It's accredited grades this year so I think we are predicting 🤔

Joking aside we are on a forum for teaching discussing the main issue in teaching currently in ireland outside of the return. Hardly shocking. Asking other professionals advice is the definition of good practice as is talking through issues in advance.

We will continue to discuss it after the guidelines issue.

skippy1977 · 18-02-2021 09:32PM

Str8outtaWuhan wrote: »

if they do nothing for next 3 months will you still pass them?

In truth I would, they all passed the only meaningful test they had this year (Novembers) and unless there is guidance (which their won't be, there couldn't be) to fail students that don't...and even then I'd be hard pushed to as I don't know what their circumstances would be. On their best day they would all pass.

am_zarathustra · 18-02-2021 09:34PM

skippy1977 wrote: »

Going to very interesting to see how things work in practice for the next 3 months. From a teacher's perspective I presume the mindset should be that there is an exam and I prep for that and try and ignore any other noise until May when I sit down to predict a grade? The students obviously have a big decision to make, on a subject by subject basis, but the teacher has to just get on with it, whether that be 20 in front of them, or 2. For planning it would be useful however to know what students are going to do...and soon. Like if I have to prep the whole class for the exam, that involves differentiated learning and moving at a slower pace, through topics we have yet to cover. If there are only 2 then I can plan specifically for them and what they are hoping to achieve.

I have Ordinary level Maths this year could see only a couple sitting the exam, most are happy to pass. In truth I'd actually be surprised if any of them sat it.
Will they be made take part in lessons in school in subjects they have no intention of sitting? Let's say 20 are sitting in front of you and 15 ask to study as they aren't sitting Maths? I guess I would be inclined to let them but am I right in saying that students need to still engage for the next while as performance in school until May will still be factored into a predicted grade?

Just thinking aloud here as it will be very interesting to see some guidance on these finer points, and it is very difficult for us to plan anything until we do.

It's a strange one, in maths kids have very specific issues usually. I totally agree, even if I split my class down the middle I'd have different requirements. For now I'm planning to finish the course hopefully by easter (bar a couple of small, learned bits I'll do after). I'm going to continue as normal but with maybe a few extra tests. Then after Easter I think will be the big change, will some kids take the pass and run, very hard to know or plan for. Revision will be useful for PG too I think, running back over things will refresh in my head their relative standards in different areas.

I feel like all I've done this year is redo plans!!

Wombatman · 18-02-2021 09:35PM

kermitpwee wrote: »

I can't actually believe there is are teachers posting on this thread. Cop yourself yourselves on. You haven't been giving the guidelines for calculating the grades yet so stop speculating and act like a professional professionals. It's embarrassing.

6/10.

kermitpwee · 18-02-2021 09:36PM

skippy1977 wrote: »

I'm not sure if that is in reference to my post above but I am sitting here at 8pm during the holidays making out plans for all of my classes for the next 6 weeks leading up to Easter. I'm posting on a 'Teaching and Lecturing' forum, to chat about what fellow teachers are thinking in terms of their own planning for the next few weeks. Monday I'll be teaching my 6th Years so just looking for a bit of a chat about it...on a forum...about teaching. I'm a bit lost on what point you are making in the post above.

Not aimed at you at all actually. My comment has nothing to do with the planning of teaching.
It has to do with some posters speculating about how and what they will give their students, also that they might take into consideration what career they are aiming for when deciding the grade to give.
Totally unprofessional. Embarrassing.

am_zarathustra · 18-02-2021 09:39PM

kermitpwee wrote: »

Not aimed at you at all actually. My comment has nothing to do with the planning of teaching.
It has to do with some posters speculating about how and what they will give their students, also that they might take into consideration what career they are aiming for when deciding the grade to give.
Totally unprofessional. Embarrassing.

All the other teachers on the forum pointed that out to that poster. You might want to change your post to the singular.

skippy1977 · 18-02-2021 09:47PM

am_zarathustra wrote: »

It's a strange one, in maths kids have very specific issues usually. I totally agree, even if I split my class down the middle I'd have different requirements. For now I'm planning to finish the course hopefully by easter (bar a couple of small, learned bits I'll do after). I'm going to continue as normal but with maybe a few extra tests. Then after Easter I think will be the big change, will some kids take the pass and run, very hard to know or plan for. Revision will be useful for PG too I think, running back over things will refresh in my head their relative standards in different areas.

I feel like all I've done this year is redo plans!!

I'm the same...I have a blank excel sheet at the minute for the 6th Years though

Waiting for some inspiration (or information). I had been able to focus them with a 20 day plan for the last lockdown, each day focused on a different topic in anticipation of a mock (I think that will be gone now in our place) so difficult to know what to do Monday without knowing the audience. Happy to soldier on and get the course finished by Easter but I would do it slightly differently depending on who I had.

I have Applied Maths where two thirds have potential for H1s and I'll have to recommend to them that they sit the exam as I'd be afraid which ones could get pulled down if I was to calculate that for them (they would have been getting them in terms tests so far). They'll be easier to plan for as I'll just stick with the plan I had!

am_zarathustra · 18-02-2021 10:24PM

skippy1977 wrote: »

I'm the same...I have a blank excel sheet at the minute for the 6th Years though Waiting for some inspiration (or information). I had been able to focus them with a 20 day plan for the last lockdown, each day focused on a different topic in anticipation of a mock (I think that will be gone now in our place) so difficult to know what to do Monday without knowing the audience. Happy to soldier on and get the course finished by Easter but I would do it slightly differently depending on who I had.

I have Applied Maths where two thirds have potential for H1s and I'll have to recommend to them that they sit the exam as I'd be afraid which ones could get pulled down if I was to calculate that for them (they would have been getting them in terms tests so far). They'll be easier to plan for as I'll just stick with the plan I had!

Applied maths, I don't envy you. How do you feel about the changes to the paper, both applied and maths itself? I'm trying to work out how much I can alter the revision plan, I'm thinking say is it safe to say "leave out complex numbers" I have one or two who just hate it, they could spend weeks on it that would be better spent on calculas given they won't be forced to answer it. It's hard to know. I can't see any other option is other than to cover everything.

skippy1977 · 18-02-2021 10:33PM

am_zarathustra wrote: »

Applied maths, I don't envy you. How do you feel about the changes to the paper, both applied and maths itself? I'm trying to work out how much I can alter the revision plan, I'm thinking say is it safe to say "leave out complex numbers" I have one or two who just hate it, they could spend weeks on it that would be better spent on calculas given they won't be forced to answer it. It's hard to know. I can't see any other option is other than to cover everything.

Yeah in fairness with the Applied Maths, the course is short and there is lots of choice on the paper, so much so it is one of the few subjects that wasn't afforded any amendments or changes.
The Higher Maths it is very hard to leave out anything. As you say Complex Numbers is an option as it has always been a short question and is unlikely to appear twice. Financial Maths is also unlikely to cross 2 questions and can be time consuming for students to learn well. I can't see any Paper 2 topic that could be left out as the long questions could be combinations of anything. Yeah if I had the Higher I'd be trying to cover everything and hope that any failings in me going to quick could be countered by:

1. More option on the paper
2. The backup of a calculated grade!

am_zarathustra · 18-02-2021 10:42PM

skippy1977 wrote: »

Yeah in fairness with the Applied Maths, the course is short and there is lots of choice on the paper, so much so it is one of the few subjects that wasn't afforded any amendments or changes.
The Higher Maths it is very hard to leave out anything. As you say Complex Numbers is an option as it has always been a short question and is unlikely to appear twice. Financial Maths is also unlikely to cross 2 questions and can be time consuming for students to learn well. I can't see any Paper 2 topic that could be left out as the long questions could be combinations of anything. Yeah if I had the Higher I'd be trying to cover everything and hope that any failings in me going to quick could be countered by:

1. More option on the paper
2. The backup of a calculated grade!

Thanks, second paper I'm really struggling with, the long questions are very broad, can be a bit of everything in them.

I'm thinking of just sticking with flying through it. I have a couple of very strong students who will do extra for me anyway and the rest will need to focus on the big hitters really, especially if they are looking for H4/5 area.

Had a couple downgraded last year in CG so just want to be sure this year for the kids, some very hard working middle of the road students who deserve a good shot at the exam so I'm trying to be as strategic as I can.

km79 · 18-02-2021 10:44PM

I just can’t square this circle .......it seems some students will be lucky to see the inside of a classroom for more than a few days/weeks this school year BUT teachers from different schools will be doing orals with students from other schools?
I can’t see it

rainbowtrout · 18-02-2021 10:55PM

skippy1977 wrote: »

Going to very interesting to see how things work in practice for the next 3 months. From a teacher's perspective I presume the mindset should be that there is an exam and I prep for that and try and ignore any other noise until May when I sit down to predict a grade? The students obviously have a big decision to make, on a subject by subject basis, but the teacher has to just get on with it, whether that be 20 in front of them, or 2. For planning it would be useful however to know what students are going to do...and soon. Like if I have to prep the whole class for the exam, that involves differentiated learning and moving at a slower pace, through topics we have yet to cover. If there are only 2 then I can plan specifically for them and what they are hoping to achieve.

I have Ordinary level Maths this year could see only a couple sitting the exam, most are happy to pass. In truth I'd actually be surprised if any of them sat it.
Will they be made take part in lessons in school in subjects they have no intention of sitting? Let's say 20 are sitting in front of you and 15 ask to study as they aren't sitting Maths? I guess I would be inclined to let them but am I right in saying that students need to still engage for the next while as performance in school until May will still be factored into a predicted grade?

Just thinking aloud here as it will be very interesting to see some guidance on these finer points, and it is very difficult for us to plan anything until we do.

I'd be of the opinion that if they come into school they are expected to do whatever the class are doing. Anything else would be chaos, and we are not a babysitting service for 17-18 year olds. Same goes for third years.

rainbowtrout · 18-02-2021 10:59PM

Wombatman wrote: »

She is saying you can choose either:

1. Accredited Grade
2. Exam
3. Both

Why in the name of jeepers would anybody pick 2?

This suggests that all students choosing to do the exam won't have the safety net of PGs.

Terribly confusing. I was under the impression all students choosing the exam would get PGs.

There were people who opted out of predicted grades last summer for a variety of reasons, even if it was just to force the exams to go ahead. So I presume they are giving people that option again this year even those vanishingly few will choose that option in reality.

There will also be people taking a subject as an extra outside school who realistically won't have anyone to supply a predicted grade for them. They'll probably be an exam only for those subjects.

rainbowtrout · 18-02-2021 11:01PM

Str8outtaWuhan wrote: »

A majority of students (71%) said they do not trust that the calculated grades system will accurately give them a result that reflects their ability.

Damning, plus 41 % will sit Irish, shows very little gra for the language

Probably reflects a high number doing OL Irish more than anything else and not needing it for points. Maths on the other hand, more important to pass that for college entry although there are probably similar numbers doing OL in comparison to Irish.

r93kaey5p2izun · 18-02-2021 11:06PM

Oh my god, Brian Mooney is talking out of his arse again. He really is doing a lot of damage with his nonsense.

km79 · 18-02-2021 11:09PM

Nyla Worried Son wrote: »

Oh my god, Brian Mooney is talking out of his arse again. He really is doing a lot of damage with his nonsense.

What now?
It’s so tiring at this stage

Hopontop · 18-02-2021 11:10PM

Nyla Worried Son wrote: »

Oh my god, Brian Mooney is talking out of his arse again. He really is doing a lot of damage with his nonsense.

What’s he saying? And what’s program?

r93kaey5p2izun · 18-02-2021 11:12PM

Prime Time. Apparently, in contradiction to the official guidance, teachers have bombarded students with tests since last September. There's acres of data he says. No concerns. And sure wouldn't he know, of course.

am_zarathustra · 18-02-2021 11:15PM

Hasn't taught in years and I'm not sure guidance is examinable! If only there were thousands of current teachers and principals who had engaged with calculated grades last year...

Treppen · 18-02-2021 11:18PM

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I'd be of the opinion that if they come into school they are expected to do whatever the class are doing. Anything else would be chaos, and we are not a babysitting service for 17-18 year olds. Same goes for third years.

True that, there's still a curriculum to be covered. So technically you still have to provide them with an education.

Be very careful about "letting them study". At the very least they'd have to get a letter from their parents stating that they are not taking part in the subject any more... and are made fully aware of consequences maybe by having school draft a letter. Extreme I know but what can go wrong will go wrong.
Even then a parent can turn around and claim that you never explained to them what they were signing (we've gotten that in our school before).

Mark the role as normal and mark "absent" if they're not in front of you no matter what. It'll also give visibility to yearheads on any chancers.

Same for 3rd years.

am_zarathustra · 18-02-2021 11:43PM

I'd continue with the curriculum til it's done, it's more the revision I'd be thinking of. I'd often have kids in the last term working on different aspects of the course, that would be normal enough but I suppose I'd be doing it at dual purposes.

Revision for those not taking the exam, I'd like the focus on the drawn together questions, maths is not discrete in the second half, you have kids strong in one or the other. I'd be very confident in predicting their grades in section 1 but section 2, to properly test, you'd need to have a decent whack of the course done. I'll need to see more of this work to be able to nail it down in PGs

For those sitting the exam I want them focused on their weakest areas too and longer questions along with memorising certain work.

It's not a big difference I guess to a normal year when you write it down but managing different work is difficult at the best of times. I suppose I just like a plan too, the DES have not been conducive to my teaching style over the last year, I think I've redrawn my scheme about 8 times!!

joebloggs32 · 19-02-2021 12:58AM

Nyla Worried Son wrote: »

Prime Time. Apparently, in contradiction to the official guidance, teachers have bombarded students with tests since last September. There's acres of data he says. No concerns. And sure wouldn't he know, of course.

I just concentrated on making uo lost ground.
No extra tests. I think it would have burned them out.

Im not going to stress over the grades this year.
I will encourage them all to sit the exam while i will err on the side of grnerous if im stuck between grades for any students.

spurious · 19-02-2021 01:27AM

Please don't engage with trolls.

If we need to move this to the teachers only forum we can.

Aquals · 19-02-2021 10:18AM

spurious wrote: »

Please don't engage with trolls.

If we need to move this to the teachers only forum we can.

How does one access the teachers only forum? I’m only hearing about it for the first time now! Thanks!

Treppen · 19-02-2021 10:29AM

Aquals wrote: »

How does one access the teachers only forum? I’m only hearing about it for the first time now! Thanks!

You have to sit the History & Politics & Sociology & Psychology & Methodology & Philosophy Exam . Then get the course assessed by the teaching council.
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Or put your name down here

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058147974/1/#post115850681

The way forward for LC2021

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