Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) Mod warning in OP 22/01

Locotastic · 17-02-2021 11:51PM

Sammy2012 wrote: »

Just seen online it'll be a 2 week gap between the next group that go back. So infants the 1st and then next class grouping the 15th!

Makes sense to have the 2 week gap to gauge the impact on numbers, seems the leaks were definitely coming from a legit source after all.

Now if we could see a bit of cop on from some people who take school as an opportunity to gather for a chat outside then maybe we'll all make it back to school during March.

drunkmonkey · 17-02-2021 11:51PM

Junior and Senior infants back the 1st Junior and senior infants may return to school on March 1 – Taoiseach

https://www.independent.ie/news/junior-and-senior-infants-may-return-to-school-on-march-1-taoiseach-40103938.html

wirelessdude01 · 18-02-2021 12:08AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Junior and Senior infants back the 1st Junior and senior infants may return to school on March 1 – Taoiseach

https://www.independent.ie/news/junior-and-senior-infants-may-return-to-school-on-march-1-taoiseach-40103938.html

The most important word in that whole thing is "may". It allows the DES that get out clause if numbers begin to slide which they hopefully won't.

Jizique · 18-02-2021 12:10AM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

The most important word in that whole thing is "may". It allows the DES that get out clause if numbers begin to slide which they hopefully won't.

They won’t - this thing is done, as long as we remain sensible and stick to the rules

18-02-2021 12:11AM

khalessi wrote: »

Merlin get over yourself. WHat I said is a quote this week By Dr Gabriel Scally so actually facts he stated in BBC radio interview I posted here in last two days.

ALso see Dr. Deepti Gurdsani Epidemiologist who was also on BBC being mansplained to similar to here sometimes.
Or Dr. Zoe Hyde or Dr Eric Feigl-Ding

Dr Eric Feigl Ding is not a doctor of anything. He is just a prolific twitterer

khalessi · 18-02-2021 12:20AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Dr Eric Feigl Ding is not a doctor of anything. He is just a prolific twitterer

Interesting he describes himself as Epidemiologist & Health Economist. Senior Fellow, FAS. Health Policy. Fmr 16 yrs @Harvard

You should tell him he is a fake and not a Harvard trained epidemiolgist, also tell Twitter.

https://fas.org/expert/eric-feigl-ding/

Dr. Eric Feigl-Ding (Eric Ding) is an epidemiologist and health economist and an Adjunct Senior Fellow at the Federation of American Scientists in Washington DC, and Chief Health Economist for Microclinic International.

In January 2020, he was recognized in the media as one of the first to alert the public on the pandemic risk of COVID-19. He is part of FAS’s work to stop COVID misinformation, and communication with lay public.

Dr. Feigl-Ding graduated from The Johns Hopkins University with Honors in Public Health and Phi Beta Kappa. He then completed his dual doctorate in epidemiology and doctorate in nutrition, as the youngest graduate to complete his dual programs at age 23 from Harvard SPH. Teaching at Harvard for over 15 years, he has advised and mentored two dozen students and lectured in more than a dozen graduate and undergraduate courses, for which he received the Derek Bok Distinction in Teaching Award from Harvard College.

18-02-2021 12:35AM

khalessi wrote: »

Interesting he describes himself as Epidemiologist & Health Economist. Senior Fellow, FAS. Health Policy. Fmr 16 yrs @Harvard

You should tell him he is a fake and not a Harvard trained epidemiolgist, also tell Twitter.

https://fas.org/expert/eric-feigl-ding/

Dr. Eric Feigl-Ding (Eric Ding) is an epidemiologist and health economist and an Adjunct Senior Fellow at the Federation of American Scientists in Washington DC, and Chief Health Economist for Microclinic International.

In January 2020, he was recognized in the media as one of the first to alert the public on the pandemic risk of COVID-19. He is part of FAS’s work to stop COVID misinformation, and communication with lay public.

Dr. Feigl-Ding graduated from The Johns Hopkins University with Honors in Public Health and Phi Beta Kappa. He then completed his dual doctorate in epidemiology and doctorate in nutrition, as the youngest graduate to complete his dual programs at age 23 from Harvard SPH. Teaching at Harvard for over 15 years, he has advised and mentored two dozen students and lectured in more than a dozen graduate and undergraduate courses, for which he received the Derek Bok Distinction in Teaching Award from Harvard College.

What a real Harvard epidemiologist has to say. He is a nutritionist

Harvard epidemiologist Marc Lipsitch was publicly among them, going so far as to label Feigl-Ding a “charlatan exploiting a tenuous connection for self-promotion.” [/qoute]

C__MC · 18-02-2021 12:35AM

giveitholly wrote: »

Junior Cert is cancelled so no rush getting them back

Yeah I’d suspect 5th and 2nd years may be on the agenda

jrosen · 18-02-2021 12:46AM

Leo on prime time refused to give a date as to when schools would be back. He was pushed but said he wouldn’t give a date if he couldn’t stand over it
Schools back on a phased basis through feb and March. Priority is LC and then JI/SI
Where have these dates come from it’s not even been 2 hours since Leo stated no dates

CruelSummer · 18-02-2021 12:46AM

khalessi wrote: »

THat is not false it is a quote fromDr. Scally, he said it. he said 1 in 8 primary aged children and 1 in 7 secondary school children who get Covid get Long Covid which he deifned as Symptoms longer then 5 weeks. and he did not say they were based on hospital stats he just said 1 in 8 who have Covid. He was on radio the other day. Sorry if he didnt inform you but he was busy doing an interview if you have an issue take it up with him

Dr Scally’s report was completely false on the radio. I posted about this in another thread. Claire Byrne didn’t question him at all re his misleading statement or data. It’s absolutely not good enough that our public service broadcaster is allowing false information like this to spread.

Also wanted to add, the slow reopening and delay of the return to in person education is unforgivable and wrong. Hope it’s challenged. There are so many approaches that these experts like Scally could come up with besides closing - rapid testing, frequent testing of teachers, investment in public health officials to control outbreaks quickly. It’s not good enough to keep schools closed any longer.

markodaly · 18-02-2021 01:11AM

firefish wrote: »

I am actually really glad that the Children’s Omsbudsman and these charities are beginning to speak out in the interests of children as it’s a perspective that has been sadly lacking (from this thread and the debate generally). No unions for children, particularly those who will be worst affected by this ie the disadvantaged.

This, this, this.

All the talk is from Teachers and the Dept. Unions have plenty to say about their members but nothing about the children they are representing.

Can you imagine nurses just walking out of ICU wards to have a strike, and let patients die?

markodaly · 18-02-2021 01:15AM

Sammy2012 wrote: »

I fully agree with this. Childcare is not an issue that should be brought into it. Other workers are dealing with childcare issues for the last number of weeks and have had no choice but to get on with it.

Yeap, you had the mother of all nuclear irony explosions when some teachers who were expected to go back to school and teach leaving cert students and the like complain about having to pay for childcare as their own kids were out of school.

Hmmm, I wonder who is working in these childcare centres, and not much of a peep from them... Hmmm, I just wonder.....

* Other educators, that's who!!

hesaidshesaid · 18-02-2021 01:19AM

markodaly wrote: »

This, this, this.

All the talk is from Teachers and the Dept. Unions have plenty to say about their members but nothing about the children they are representing.

Can you imagine nurses just walking out of ICU wards to have a strike, and let patients die?

Unions represent their members only. The end.

khalessi · 18-02-2021 01:19AM

markodaly wrote: »

This, this, this.

All the talk is from Teachers and the Dept. Unions have plenty to say about their members but nothing about the children they are representing.

Can you imagine nurses just walking out of ICU wards to have a strike, and let patients die?

Speaking as a former nurse when we went on strike we were accused of letting patients die even though we has a skeleton crew on site, this is similar to how teachers are continuing to teach students in a pandemic online and continuing to be teacher bashed

markodaly · 18-02-2021 01:24AM

hesaidshesaid wrote: »

Unions represent their members only. The end.

Ah yes, the ultimate of all fallbacks, which one can then wash their hands of any and all repercussions their Unions and members have on soceity. Thankfully, people are wise to this type of thinking.
'
The statement of "Unions represent their members" is not some get out of jail card people can spout when the heat is on the conduct and unprofessionalism of Unions.

markodaly · 18-02-2021 01:30AM

khalessi wrote: »

Speaking as a former nurse when we went on strike we were accused of letting patients die even though we has a skeleton crew on site, this is similar to how teachers are continuing to teach students in a pandemic online and continuing to be teacher bashed

Honestly though, why is it that there is always a difficulty with teacher Unions. This is not just this pandemic, the government having annual fights with the teaching Unions, in particular, the ASTI has been a long-running theme. After a while, people get tired of it and get accustomed to the narrative that teachers are just difficult to negotiate and work with.

The government have their run-ins with other Unions, for sure, but they are often kept on a lid and only blow up once in a while. The ASTI in particular, well they only really have themselves to blame. They have zero public capital or goodwill because they spent it all in the past. Yet, here we are again, tying to get schools open.... again, and the Unions are up in arms about this or that....

hesaidshesaid · 18-02-2021 01:33AM

markodaly wrote: »

The statement of "Unions represent their members" is not some get out of jail card people can spout when the heat is on the conduct and unprofessionalism of Unions.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this.

It can also be looked at like this. Unions want a relatively safe working environment for their members. This is a positive for teachers.

But it is also a positive for children and parents, for a number of reasons. Firstly, if the environment is relatively safe, fewer children will carry the virus from school to home and vice versa. They are also less likely to have to miss school due to being close contacts. Finally, fewer teachers will get sick or have isolate due to being close contacts, so less class time will be disrupted. There is a well documented lack of substitute teachers in Ireland so an absent teacher frequently means a class with no instruction.

So unions advocating for a relatively safe working environment for their members - which is their job - is actually beneficial to everyone in the school community in the long run.

Locotastic · 18-02-2021 08:44AM

markodaly wrote: »

Honestly though, why is it that there is always a difficulty with teacher Unions. This is not just this pandemic, the government having annual fights with the teaching Unions, in particular, the ASTI has been a long-running theme. After a while, people get tired of it and get accustomed to the narrative that teachers are just difficult to negotiate and work with.

The government have their run-ins with other Unions, for sure, but they are often kept on a lid and only blow up once in a while. The ASTI in particular, well they only really have themselves to blame. They have zero public capital or goodwill because they spent it all in the past. Yet, here we are again, tying to get schools open.... again, and the Unions are up in arms about this or that....

Forsa, INTO and TUI appear to be supportive of the schools reopening. Shocker however, as ASTI say they aren't satisfied yet over the safety of reopening schools.

How is there such consistent disparity between the majority of teachers unions and ASTI?

SusanC10 · 18-02-2021 08:47AM

Morning everyone!
Apart from LC and JC, are we any closer to a plan ?

wirelessdude01 · 18-02-2021 08:52AM

SusanC10 wrote: »

Morning everyone!
Apart from LC and JC, are we any closer to a plan ?

At the moment no. Honestly reading the tea leaves it also appears that no one is happy with regards to the LC either. Both union statements indicate they aren't happy, I'm also hearing that the students aren't entirely enamoured with it either. Secondary students also making it clear they want to remain online. Whole thing is a mess.

PoolDude · 18-02-2021 09:03AM

Posted this in another thread but interested in peoples thoughts on it.

Is the LC solution all an orchestrated sham?

I was thinking about it overnight. The key challenge for students and teachers is the lack of time over the two year cycle to complete the course and teach or revise most effectively.

The Minister said data will be gathered up to end of May for PG and they also shared, per the concern in the TUI statement, there has been no further change to the papers.

So what they got was all parties calling out what they ‘gave up’ or are not happy with, thereby eroding confidence in the PG and students left with effectively no relief from the heavy workload as they need to try to be on top of every subject till June regardless of which path they take and then due to lack of trust in the system need to take the unchanged written exams which they feel under prepared for.

Am I missing something?

SusanC10 · 18-02-2021 09:12AM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

At the moment no. Honestly reading the tea leaves it also appears that no one is happy with regards to the LC either. Both union statements indicate they aren't happy, I'm also hearing that the students aren't entirely enamoured with it either. Secondary students also making it clear they want to remain online. Whole thing is a mess.

I read a little on the LC yesterday but it didn't make a whole lot of sense to me. But our kids are younger.

We are happy enough to keep both of our kids at home until after the Easter break. They are both doing well academically online. But they do miss their friends.

noplacehere · 18-02-2021 09:14AM

PoolDude wrote: »

Posted this in another thread but interested in peoples thoughts on it.

Is the LC solution all an orchestrated sham?

I was thinking about it overnight. The key challenge for students and teachers is the lack of time over the two year cycle to complete the course and teach or revise most effectively.

The Minister said data will be gathered up to end of May for PG and they also shared, per the concern in the TUI statement, there has been no further change to the papers.

So what they got was all parties calling out what they ‘gave up’ or are not happy with, thereby eroding confidence in the PG and students left with effectively no relief from the heavy workload as they need to try to be on top of every subject till June regardless of which path they take and then due to lack of trust in the system need to take the unchanged written exams which they feel under prepared for.

Am I missing something?

I agree. And predictive grades not being picked until May means even students not taking the exam will continue to be under pressure in all subjects right up to May. It does not appear there has been any further alleviation in content meaning that the teachers are going to have to finish the courses for all taking the exam so the pace won’t be able to slow at all. No predictive grades for the orals/practicals also means that all the work they’ve been putting in there isn’t planned to be checked properly but the class will still have to prepare all that work as fast as possible as they are going ahead for anyone taking the exam. Dual track classrooms are going to be frantic right up to the end of May

Midnight Sundance · 18-02-2021 09:16AM

SusanC10 wrote: »

Morning everyone!
Apart from LC and JC, are we any closer to a plan ?

This really is annoying me at this stage! If we're going back we're going back, but the we "may" be going back line from MM is of no use to anyone. I wish they would make a decision and just stick with it.
I need to sort out my childcare and there's a big difference between starting them next week so they can get used to it and starting them at Easter.
Is there going to be a definite decision today?

SusanC10 · 18-02-2021 09:39AM

I think a lot of people just don't get the prioritisation of Education in a reopening of society. Already this morning, I have read many comments on SM to the effect that - if schools are open and kids are mixing there and on buses and for after-school childcare then it is safe to visit family and friends (with or without kids) and to have kids mixing outside of school.

jusvi2001 · 18-02-2021 09:40AM

penny piper wrote: »

It wouldn't be much good in having a school open if you had no teachers to teach in it....global pandemic......

Yes its a global pandemic...yet people in retail are working so as healthcare workers etc even though they are at more risk than teachers. What if they all stop working saying that they are at risk of getting covid.

Its been an year now . we need to learn to live with covid because covid will be here for long term.we can only minimize the risk and can't prevent it fully. Teachers union are over protective about their members (not children) and think that its members are at risk than any other working class. Pity there is no union for children. the most covid outbreaks are happening in private houses and nursing homes but at not school settings. actually school is at the bottom of that list. no matter what ever goverment's plan teachers union agree to disagree. they tried to prevent school from reopening in september 2020. wanted to close school for early and extended Christmas holidays. now here we go again when government is planning to reopen the schools.

https://www.newstalk.com/news/coronavirus-outbreaks-happening-ireland-1090962

khalessi · 18-02-2021 09:46AM

jusvi2001 wrote: »

Yes its a global pandemic...yet people in retail are working so as healthcare workers etc even though they are at more risk than teachers. What if they all stop working saying that they are at risk of getting covid.

Its been an year now . we need to learn to live with covid because covid will be here for long term.we can only minimize the risk and can't prevent it fully. Teachers union are over protective about their members (not children) and think that its members are at risk than any other working class. Pity there is no union for children. the most covid outbreaks are happening in private houses and nursing homes but at not school settings. actually school is at the bottom of that list. no matter what ever goverment's plan teachers union agree to disagree. they tried to prevent school from reopening in september 2020. wanted to close school for early and extended Christmas holidays. now here we go again when government is planning to reopen the schools.

https://www.newstalk.com/news/coronavirus-outbreaks-happening-ireland-1090962

YAWN!! ! Nurse And Retail comparison

Llease see previous posts about jobs being different

Nurses ppe provided to HCWS and precautions for hospitals also nurses and HCW know going into job the risks it is made very clear what they are up against re contagion. Being a nurse I covered this a few times but anti teacher bashers like to ignore it.

Retail, big spaces, sd, limited people in store short amount shopping you get picture

Try be original

jusvi2001 · 18-02-2021 09:58AM

khalessi wrote: »

YAWN!! ! Nurse And Retail comparison

Llease see previous posts about jobs being different

Nurses ppe provided to HCWS and precautions for hospitals also nurses and HCW know going into job the risks it is made very clear what they are up against re contagion. Being a nurse I covered this a few times but anti teacher bashers like to ignore it.

Retail, big spaces, sd, limited people in store short amount shopping you get picture

Try be original

Ok lets leave the comparison of jobs but seems you are conveniently forgetting the fact that most outbreaks are happening in private houses, hospitals and other places but not in schools. schools are at the bottom of the list. Teachers are more safe at school than their houses :-).

SusanC10 · 18-02-2021 10:02AM

jusvi2001 wrote: »

Ok lets leave the comparison of jobs but seems you are conveniently forgetting the fact that most outbreaks are happening in private houses, hospitals and other places but not in schools. schools are at the bottom of the list. Teachers are more safe at school than their houses :-).

Is this right now ? Schools are closed for the vast majority of people. Since December. They only opened for a very small cohort last week.

Our kids have always been much safer in our home than at school in relation to the transmission of the virus.

jusvi2001 · 18-02-2021 10:06AM

SusanC10 wrote: »

Is this right now ? Schools are closed for the vast majority of people. Since December. They only opened for a very small cohort last week.

Our kids have always been much safer in our home than at school in relation to the transmission of the virus.

Data is from the time when schools were open. Private houses are on the top of list for outbreaks.

https://www.newstalk.com/news/coronavirus-outbreaks-happening-ireland-1090962

Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

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Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) Mod warning in OP 22/01