The way forward for LC2021

r93kaey5p2izun · 17-02-2021 03:16PM

I wonder what way the guidance for predictions will go this year. Last year the instruction was that only work up to closure could be counted, and the estimated mark was to be based on how they would likely have performed if the disruption caused by Covid had never arisen. That meant teachers had 5th and most of 6th on which to base their decision. And students were protected from the effect of issues engaging with online learning and any personal impacts of Covid. This is a much more difficult prospect this year - to imagine no impact from Covid, I'm not sure it can be done.

Random sample · 17-02-2021 03:32PM

I don’t see the point of the choice. If a student chooses exams and is named as a close contact in June, what then?

The safest bet for all would be predicted grades.

Wombatman · 17-02-2021 03:36PM

am_zarathustra wrote: »

I wonder is it subject by subject or all or nothing??

Skip forward to 13 min.

https://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/html5/#/radio1/11282023

Wombatman · 17-02-2021 03:40PM

Random sample wrote: »

I don’t see the point of the choice. If a student chooses exams and is named as a close contact in June, what then?

The safest bet for all would be predicted grades.

I'm guessing that it will be PGs for all, but if you decide to choose exam, your PG grade will be expunged and it will be exam or nothing from that point on.

Random sample · 17-02-2021 03:45PM

Wombatman wrote: »

I'm guessing that it will be PGs for all, but if you decide to choose exam, your PG grade will be expunged and it will be exam or nothing from that point on.

And then candidates will get their predictive grade under gdpr, and go to court to switch to it...

Treppen · 17-02-2021 03:47PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I've raised same at branch and district level within thr INTO and keep getting told that the issues at primary and secondary level are different and that is the reason why there is no consolidated and uniform approach. I call BS though.

Some issues are different but the new pension scheme in both are dire.

Treppen · 17-02-2021 03:51PM

Random sample wrote: »

And then candidates will get their predictive grade under gdpr, and go to court to switch to it...

Dept can kick forward and tie up the processing of the predictive grade, also it would be in the same manner as doing an FOI on your grade before the usual leaving cert results come out.

Random sample · 17-02-2021 04:05PM

Treppen wrote: »

Dept can kick forward and tie up the processing of the predictive grade, also it would be in the same manner as doing an FOI on your grade before the usual leaving cert results come out.

I mean after the results are out. They would be entitled (as they were last year to the teacher’s raw grade) to find out what they were assigned. If you got a h2 on predictive and a h4 in the actual exam, there’s a good chance you’d try to switch to the h2.

shesty · 17-02-2021 04:13PM

Do you think they will have another panic if more students than expected/the bulk of students go for the traditional exam, and they have to figure out how to host it???

rainbowtrout · 17-02-2021 04:20PM

Random sample wrote: »

I don’t see the point of the choice. If a student chooses exams and is named as a close contact in June, what then?

The safest bet for all would be predicted grades.

Well there is that paper that's run in July for students with bereavements during the exam period. It could be run for students who have to isolate due to covid or test positive in June.

rainbowtrout · 17-02-2021 04:23PM

shesty wrote: »

Do you think they will have another panic if more students than expected/the bulk of students go for the traditional exam, and they have to figure out how to host it???

No, there will be a cohort who fall into the lazy or disinterested category who will be quite happy to accept a predicted grade rather than sit an exam. I can think of quite a few students who if they were told 'you can have an O5/O6 in Irish now or you can study for the next four months' would take the predicted grade every time. I don't think that will be confined to Ordinary Level either.

r93kaey5p2izun · 17-02-2021 04:28PM

I wonder also if there are predicted grades, how much advice a teacher will be able to give a student about whether they should drop levels. Last year no such advice was allowed, all communication was banned, but mocks had already happened and usually teachers give their final advice at that stage so students would have already discussed this with teachers. This year that point has not yet been reached. And in a subject like HL Maths there are many hangers on right up until the mocks, hoping for bonus points. I think students are entitled to access that advice about levels to fully inform their decision, that is a normal part of classroom preparation for the LC. But of course it may lead to awkward or difficult situations in a predicted grades scenario.

Random sample · 17-02-2021 04:33PM

Nyla Worried Son wrote: »

I wonder also if there are predicted grades, how much advice a teacher will be able to give a student about whether they should drop levels. Last year no such advice was allowed, all communication was banned, but mocks had already happened and usually teachers give their final advice at that stage so students would have already discussed this with teachers. This year that point has not yet been reached. And in a subject like HL Maths there are many hangers on right up until the mocks, hoping for bonus points. I think students are entitled to access that advice about levels to fully inform their decision, that is a normal part of classroom preparation for the LC. But of course it may lead to awkward or difficult situations in a predicted grades scenario.

There are many awkward conversations going to come out of students getting a choice.

Random sample · 17-02-2021 04:33PM

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Well there is that paper that's run in July for students with bereavements during the exam period. It could be run for students who have to isolate due to covid or test positive in June.

It’s the risk though. Would you risk having to study til July if you could get a h6 in February?

Not in all subjects, but I think students will be tactical.

rainbowtrout · 17-02-2021 04:42PM

Random sample wrote: »

It’s the risk though. Would you risk having to study til July if you could get a h6 in February?

Not in all subjects, but I think students will be tactical.

I don't think students will consider covid in June / potential of an exam in July if they are planning on sitting the exam. If they are going to sit the exam, I'd assume they're going in with a 'give it their best shot' mentality. If the thought of delaying the exam for 3 weeks due to potential covid in June was a factor they'll have a string of other reasons to opt for predicted grades before they get that far down the list.

I do think some students will play it tactical and drop their weakest subjects or subjects where they expect a middle of the road grade which is unlikely to be downgraded.

I'm not sure what the stats were on downgrades last year, but I can't imagine there were heaps of H5/H6 grades downgraded in comparison to H1/H2s. Anyone taking 5 or 6 HL exams and has one OL that they don't plan on counting for points doesn't benefit from sitting that exam points wise.

Rosita · 17-02-2021 04:44PM

Nyla Worried Son wrote: »

I wonder also if there are predicted grades, how much advice a teacher will be able to give a student about whether they should drop levels. Last year no such advice was allowed, all communication was banned, but mocks had already happened and usually teachers give their final advice at that stage so students would have already discussed this with teachers. This year that point has not yet been reached. And in a subject like HL Maths there are many hangers on right up until the mocks, hoping for bonus points. I think students are entitled to access that advice about levels to fully inform their decision, that is a normal part of classroom preparation for the LC. But of course it may lead to awkward or difficult situations in a predicted grades scenario.

In the Maths scenario where there is a very specific issue regarding bonus points, a teacher will have to more or less tell a student they will get a fail mark to get them to drop. It seems strange to qualify for bonus points when you don't actually have to go through the process of sitting an exam.

Wombatman · 17-02-2021 04:47PM

shesty wrote: »

Do you think they will have another panic if more students than expected/the bulk of students go for the traditional exam, and they have to figure out how to host it???

Reading between the lines it's pretty clear that the department aren't prepared to host a large scale leaving cert this year, with or without a Covid backdrop. I expect the PGs will be available and attractive enough to coax students away from the exam.

am_zarathustra · 17-02-2021 04:50PM

Rosita wrote: »

In the Maths scenario where there is a very specific issue regarding bonus points, a teacher will have to more or less tell a student they will get a fail mark to get them to drop. It seems strange to qualify for bonus points when you don't actually have to go through the process of sitting an exam.

I teach two LC subjects, the other one Kids know their level and there won't be much alteration or difficulty in the conversation. Maths is a nightmare, the bonus points make it very attractive. The issue will be if staff let kids directly or indirectly know their grades and then they are downgraded (when actually, this will happen for a huge amount of kids) asking staff to do PG and then sit in a room with kids is a bit mad, also when do the PG group cut and run? Am I teaching a couple of kids who choose to sit the exam? I really hope these issues have been sorted and they aren't just going to release something half baked.

Wombatman · 17-02-2021 05:17PM

am_zarathustra wrote: »

I really hope these issues have been sorted and they aren't just going to release something half baked.

I'd take half baked but I'm expecting a dogs dinner.

Bobtheman · 17-02-2021 05:30PM

https://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2021/02/17/at-this-point-you-cant-help-but-admire-governments-staggering-ineptitude-confirms-nation/

I think this is spot on. Unless you are on drugs /very drunk nothing you can imagine will be close to the farce they will soon announce.
Too much rational thought here posters. Give it up.

rainbowtrout · 17-02-2021 05:40PM

And here we go

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2021/0217/1197572-leaving-cert-talks/

wirelessdude01 · 17-02-2021 05:44PM

rainbowtrout wrote: »

And here we go

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2021/0217/1197572-leaving-cert-talks/

So pick your better subjects for PG and sit the harder ones or am I totally misreading it?

French Toast · 17-02-2021 05:46PM

The Junior Cert has been cancelled.

Gonna spend the rest of the year on a Netflix binge with my 3rd Years so :P

Alqua · 17-02-2021 05:47PM

I saw somewhere (will look for link) that students could opt for both a predicted grade and an exam, getting the higher of the 2 grades at the end. Surely the exam would take precedence? Can't see it in that article.

Edit: This wasn't where I saw it but Gavan Reilly has it here:
https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1362080602602827782

rainbowtrout · 17-02-2021 05:49PM

So basically the same as last year except exams happen in June, and practicals and orals will happen as well.

Alqua · 17-02-2021 05:52PM

rainbowtrout wrote: »

So basically the same as last year except exams happen in June, and practicals and orals will happen as well.

Where are you seeing practicals and orals mentioned?

rainbowtrout · 17-02-2021 05:57PM

Alqua wrote: »

Where are you seeing practicals and orals mentioned?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/leaving-cert-students-to-have-choice-between-predicted-grades-and-exams-1.4487319

Alqua · 17-02-2021 06:03PM

rainbowtrout wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/leaving-cert-students-to-have-choice-between-predicted-grades-and-exams-1.4487319

Thanks, can just make it out above the paywall! It'll be interesting to see what "different formats" these will be, especially for music where little or no preparation could be done.

PoolDude · 17-02-2021 06:05PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

So pick your better subjects for PG and sit the harder ones or am I totally misreading it?

I'd have suggested the opposite. Try lock in decent grades in weaker subjects and don't risk it going wrong and then nail the other 3 or 4 to try get H1's, e.g. if you find the languages difficult take the PG and try get H1's in the subjects that are more black & white.

LW2018 · 17-02-2021 06:06PM

We really need clarity now on the orals and practical exams. It will determine the focus for language teachers upon the return to the virtual classroom come Monday. We need to know this timeline.

No harm with the JC. I think I will move back to basics with them and improve on areas with minimal focus on those dreadful Junior Cycle learning outcomes and unnecessary topics. Will keep them focused and get them somewhat ready for senior cycle - looking at sample texts etc and build on comprehension skills.

For those who opt for CG, are we assessing the full class group - grades to be used in the CG process and the others are just gaining exam experience / skills? I think, personally, they need to made choose one option or the other and not be given the best of two results. Make their decision and stick to it. And let them be aware about the standardisation process that will take place too - the teacher's calculated grade is highly unlikely to be used exactly as it is. Interesting to see how all this plays out... a lot left to be answered.

The way forward for LC2021

Comments