2021 Irish Property Market chat - mod warnings post 1

Marius34 · 16-02-2021 08:09PM

DataDude wrote: »

I think it was a little worse than stagnant. Saw some figures of -3 to -5% in the premium end.
But even if we assume stagnant, whilst those people are still generally employed. I don't think too many have seen a mega boost to earnings from COVID-19 that will, in the long term, allow them to borrow more than they would have been able were COVID not to have existed?

That's why I struggle to see a longer term trend suddenly being favorable after a period of being very static.

There are many components why this happens. Here are some of the main components:

1) Increased Household savings (probably most important factor)
2) WFH
3) Reduced concerns on Brexit
4) Reduced concerns on Recession (second half of 2020)
5) HTB
6) Increased Build-2-Let
7) Increased Social Housing
8) Reduced number for sale due to Lockdowns.
...

thefridge2006 · 16-02-2021 08:14PM

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/moneylenders-are-creeping-into-middle-income-areas-tds-are-told-40098022.html

UH OH..... but we're grand, we'll be propped up forever and things won't get any worse...

Yurt2 · 16-02-2021 08:30PM

TobyHolmes wrote: »

i'm not sure what you mean by your comment but even if prices are rising in those countries there are still alot more property options and commutable areas then we have here in Ireland so an increase in prices affects ireland drastically - we are only a small small market compared to those other countries you list - with the exception of New Zealand

Interestingly, NZ has a chronic housing crisis probably an order of magnitude worse than Ireland (I know a well-paid kiwi who got a mortgage with two of his uni mates in Wellington as it was the only way to 'get on the ladder'), and for the same reasons we have an affordability crisis.

The government response (Kiwibuild) is startlingly similar to the proposed 'affordable' housing measures here, was a complete cluster*ck and inflated prices further, and basically only further advantaged people who had the money to buy in the first place.

You'd wonder do the civil servants in the Department of Housing have access to the internet to research this at all?

Cyrus · 16-02-2021 08:31PM

thefridge2006 wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/moneylenders-are-creeping-into-middle-income-areas-tds-are-told-40098022.html

UH OH..... but we're grand, we'll be propped up forever and things won't get any worse...

Care to give any analysis or context about why posting about money lenders lending to middle income people is important in the context of the property market ? Or do you just like bad news stories regardless ?

DataDude · 16-02-2021 08:33PM

Marius34 wrote: »

There are many components why this happens. Here are some of the main components:

1) Increased Household savings (probably most important factor)
2) WFH
3) Reduced concerns on Brexit
4) Reduced concerns on Recession (second half of 2020)
5) HTB
6) Increased Build-2-Let
7) Increased Social Housing
8) Reduced number for sale due to Lockdowns.
...

Again, not denying there is a clear upward trend in prices currently. But if anything your list would reinforce to me that the primary drivers at play at the moment very much short term effects. If all we read is to be true and house prices were stagnating in 2019 due to affordability limits being reached on demand side. I can't see how any of the below are going to dramatically enhance the demand side outlook in the coming years (i.e. average earnings are not going to massively increase)

1) Increased Household savings (probably most important factor)Short term demand side impact. Not a sustainable long term change in buying power.
2) WFHPotential change in the type of demand but not directly improving overall demand side, although argued by some here, would be more likely to lead to demand moving from supply constrained areas to less supply constrained areas
3) Reduced concerns on Brexit Fair point, although not like the Brexit outcome was fantastic. Also talk around election time was that nobody actually seemed to care. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/don-t-mention-the-b-word-brexit-barely-figures-as-an-election-issue-1.4167398
4) Reduced concerns on Recession (second half of 2020)Would explain bounce back in late 2020 for sure, but I'm talking versus 2019. Not sure how people could be more economically confident now than late 2019.
5) HTBIncrease of €10k a factor for sure
6) Increased Build-2-Let Not sure
7) Increased Social HousingNot sure
8) Reduced number for sale due to Lockdowns.Short term supply side effect which is what I think is currently the biggest factor at play along with number (1) above

decreds · 16-02-2021 08:40PM

cnocbui wrote: »

Prices are rising in the US, UK, Australia and NZ. But yeah, once again, Ireland is oh-so 'special' and will go against the international trend.

Where do you get your information from? Please link evidence to such bizarre claims.

US: House-prices-fall-for-first-time-in-six-months-in-january

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/finance/other/house-prices-fall-for-first-time-in-six-months-in-january/ar-BB1dj1bD

Prices have dropped in the big cities as people flee for bigger "safer" havens. This is reason behind any increase in sales but prices are not rising.

UK: UK Property prices fall in January as property market runs out of steam

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/uk-house-prices-average-latest-halifax-b1798414.html

Australia: The property market in OZ is literally the worst model to follow. It is at the tail end of a massive bubble that is heavily reliant upon mining and propped up by massive debt. Nearly everyone i know in OZ who owns property is up to their eyes in debt, it is not sustainable.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/feb/16/the-australian-property-market-is-booming-but-the-gains-are-based-on-massive-debts

NZ: Prices are in fact dropping. Shock horror 3/4.
National median prices were down 2 per cent from December

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/reinz-data-auckland-house-prices-drop-25000-sales-fall-46/Z5FKCEW3MJ2F2NFI42XR6QTW4Q/

To quote yourself "But yeah, once again, Ireland is oh-so 'special' and will go against the international trend" . I wonder if Ireland will be so special and go against the international trend which is facing the biggest recession in history.

I find it ironic that you called out a poster who historically uses data to back up their claims with no actual data lol. Hilarious

Yurt2 · 16-02-2021 08:42PM

cnocbui wrote: »

Prices are rising in the US, UK, Australia and NZ. But yeah, once again, Ireland is oh-so 'special' and will go against the international trend.

There's more to the world than anglo-countries you know. These are the countries with the most liberalised financial sectors and 'hands-off' attitude from governments. It's primarily a cultural problem as well as an economic and social one, as evidenced by your dismissive post.

It's no surprise that Anglo countries are experiencing this issue most acutely. If you want to take these countries as 'the world', go ahead. But you're highlighting the worst in class, and I'd rather Ireland not go down that road when there are clear alternatives how to approach this problem if there was the political will to do so.

Marius34 · 16-02-2021 08:48PM

DataDude wrote: »

Again, not denying there is a clear upward trend in prices currently. But if anything your list would reinforce to me that the primary drivers at play at the moment very much short term effects. If all we read is to be true and house prices were stagnating in 2019 due to affordability limits being reached on demand side. I can't see how any of the below are going to dramatically enhance the demand side outlook in the coming years (i.e. average earnings are not going to massively increase)

1) Increased Household savings (probably most important factor)Short term demand side impact. Not a sustainable long term change in buying power.
2) WFHPotential change in the type of demand but not directly improving overall demand side, although argued by some here, would be more likely to lead to demand moving from supply constrained areas to less supply constrained areas
3) Reduced concerns on Brexit Fair point, although not like the Brexit outcome was fantastic. Also talk around election time was that nobody actually seemed to care. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/don-t-mention-the-b-word-brexit-barely-figures-as-an-election-issue-1.4167398
4) Reduced concerns on Recession (second half of 2020)Would explain bounce back in late 2020 for sure, but I'm talking versus 2019. Not sure how people could be more economically confident now than late 2019.
5) HTBIncrease of €10k a factor for sure
6) Increased Build-2-Let Not sure
7) Increased Social HousingNot sure
8) Reduced number for sale due to Lockdowns.Short term supply side effect which is what I think is currently the biggest factor at play along with number (1) above

I thought it wasn't clear to you why it's starting to go upwards after the stability on previous 2-3 years.
The reasons I listed is why there is likely upwards trends for now & 2021&2022. Not long term ones. It's anyone's guess where price will move in 5 or 10 years...

decreds · 16-02-2021 08:51PM

Yurt! wrote: »

There's more to the world than anglo-countries you know. These are the countries with the most liberalised financial sectors and 'hands-off' attitude from governments. It's primarily a cultural problem as well as an economic and social one, as evidenced by your dismissive post.

It's no surprise that Anglo countries are experiencing this issue most acutely. If you want to take these countries as 'the world', go ahead. But you're highlighting the worst in class, and I'd rather Ireland not go down that road when there are clear alternatives how to approach this problem if there was the political will to do so.

Exactly, terrible housing markets to model. What's even worse is prices are actually falling in 3/4 countries lmao. That post should not be taken seriously.

decreds · 16-02-2021 08:53PM

Marius34 wrote: »

I thought it wasn't clear to you why it's starting to go upwards after the stability on previous 2-3 years.
The reasons I listed is why there is likely upwards trends for now & 2021&2022. Not long term ones.

That's because there likely won't be long term price rises.

Villa05 · 16-02-2021 09:42PM

Sierra Oscar wrote:

Assuming demand collapses. Do you see that happening? First-time buyers are fueling the demand, I don't really think that demand will fall away too easily. They still want a place to live.

It's possible, many of the jobs being created ar being filled by foreign applicants. This increases our transient population.

More likely is:

We are also pushing towards 40% of the population renting. These people are finding it tough, they will be looking politically for solutions and their parents siblings will be looking at it also
We amongst the most underdeveloped nations in the EU, its not difficult to solve the supply side. Land, capital and increasingly sufficient labour is available to solve it

People will say that it would take years, but a simple declaration that we will deal with the supply side issues with a plan will move the market, just as the incompetence/apathy to solving it has moved the market for the last 10 years

cnocbui · 16-02-2021 09:51PM

decreds wrote: »

Where do you get your information from? Please link evidence to such bizarre claims.

US: House-prices-fall-for-first-time-in-six-months-in-january

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/finance/other/house-prices-fall-for-first-time-in-six-months-in-january/ar-BB1dj1bD

I'd be glad to. You are cherry picking apallingly. 'fall for fist time in 6 months' So 6 out of 7 months were price rises but a slight pull back negates the trend? Are you for real?

The US:

Cash sales tend to take place at the higher end of property market chains and include larger type houses in the country so the Land Registry shows the greatest increase and the highest average price.

The Halifax and Nationwide statistics are based only on transactions involving a mortgage. Typically about a third of sales are for cash and this proportion is even higher in retirement areas.

The Nationwide index is statistically weighted to compensate for this so we have the Land Registry saying prices have risen 7.6% and Nationwide closely shadowing this saying 7.3%.

Halifax is much lower at 6% although the Halifax average price is higher than the Nationwide’s. What they all agree is that 2020 saw a significant increase in house prices.

https://www.mortgagefinancegazette.com/market-news/housing/house-price-analysis-statistics-really-tell-us-08-02-2021/

Here's the trend in established family home sales:

https://dqydj.com/historical-home-prices/

Here's the trend in new home sales:

https://www.census.gov/construction/nrs/pdf/newressales.pdf

Existing home sales in 2020 hit highest point since 2006, but listings are at a record low
Published Fri, Jan 22 202110:00 AM ESTUpdated Fri, Jan 22 202110:26 AM EST

Pandemic-driven demand sent total 2020 home sales to the highest level since 2006.
Closed sales of existing homes in December increased 0.7% from November to a seasonally adjusted annualized rate of 6.76 million units, according to the National Association of Realtors.
Sales were 22% stronger than December 2019.
...
Still, even the most avid buyers are bumping up against barriers in today’s housing market. Record low supply and record high prices are limiting the exceptionally high demand.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/22/existing-home-sales-in-2020-were-highest-since-in-over-a-decade.html

Sorry, did you make up something about prices falling?

Prices have dropped in the big cities as people flee for bigger "safer" havens. This is reason behind any increase in sales but prices are not rising.

Which Harry Potter book did you get that from?.

The UK:

UK: UK Property prices fall in January as property market runs out of steam

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/uk-house-prices-average-latest-halifax-b1798414.html

You did the same for the UK - cherry picked a single month:

The average UK house price ended 2020 at a record high of £253,374, it has been estimated.

The Halifax House Price Index showed that house prices in December were 6% higher than in the same month a year earlier.

But the month-on-month price increase of 0.2% was significantly down from the 1% increase seen in November.

https://news.sky.com/story/house-prices-end-2020-at-record-high-but-pace-of-growth-has-slowed-12182077

6% growth in house price YOY is not evidence of a house price decline in the UK.

Australia:

Australia: The property market in OZ is literally the worst model to follow. It is at the tail end of a massive bubble that is heavily reliant upon mining and propped up by massive debt. Nearly everyone i know in OZ who owns property is up to their eyes in debt, it is not sustainable.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/feb/16/the-australian-property-market-is-booming-but-the-gains-are-based-on-massive-debts

NZ: Prices are in fact dropping. Shock horror 3/4.
National median prices were down 2 per cent from December

An Irishman (I presume?) going on about massive Australian debt, as an Australian, the irony is not lost on me.

Ireland:

Debt per Citizen 42,327 €
Debt as % of GDP 67.96%

Australia, poor sods, on the brink of financial collapse: /s

Debt per Citizen € 15,498.2
Debt as % of GDP 48.39%

https://worlddebtclocks.com/australia

Ireland has nearly 3 times the debt per head, but those poor aussies debts are unsustainable and they are in trouble? Wake up.

Australia’s house prices soar to record highs over 2020
Sue WilliamsDomain Reporter Jan 28, 2021

National house prices leapt to new record highs at the end of 2020, scotching dire predictions that COVID-19 would trigger a complete collapse of the market.

With the median house price in Sydney now at an all-time peak of $1,211,488, Melbourne’s at $936,073 and Canberra’s at $855,530, every capital city recorded massive growth over the past year.

https://www.domain.com.au/news/australias-house-prices-soar-to-record-highs-over-2020-1020487/

New Zealand:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/reinz-data-auckland-house-prices-drop-25000-sales-fall-46/Z5FKCEW3MJ2F2NFI42XR6QTW4Q/

Auckland is a city, New Zealand is a country.

House prices rise nearly 20% in a year to median $725K
9:56 am on 12 November 2020

House prices have increased 19.8 percent year-on-year with the median now at $725,000.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/430418/house-prices-rise-nearly-20-percent-in-a-year-to-median-725k

I'm guessing I don't have to explain 20%?

To quote yourself "But yeah, once again, Ireland is oh-so 'special' and will go against the international trend" . I wonder if Ireland will be so special and go against the international trend which is facing the biggest recession in history.

I find it ironic that you called out a poster who historically uses data to back up their claims with no actual data lol. Hilarious

The possibility of a recession is a hypothetical, I was addressing the current state of trends in house prices in certain markets, and the above proves my point.

cnocbui · 16-02-2021 10:09PM

decreds wrote: »

Exactly, terrible housing markets to model. What's even worse is prices are actually falling in 3/4 countries lmao. That post should not be taken seriously.

Is that 3 out of 4 on Mars perhaps?

Sorry to use the IMF - and no, M doesn't stand for Mars - as a source of information, but it just seemed so - whats the word? - ah, yes: authoritative.

I know, you are going to say too old - they seem slow. OECD data then:

https://data.oecd.org/price/housing-prices.htm

Ireland is in the middle of the pack, roughly. Be thankful you aren't a FTBer in Hungary or Turkey. Move to Italy.

So no, house prices are not falling in 3/4 of countries:

Q3 2020: Global house price boom strengthens, despite Covid-19 crisis

Matthew Montagu-Pollock | December 07, 2020

During the year to Q3 2020:

House price increases strengthened in many countries in Europe, Asia-Pacific, and Canada and the US during the year to Q3 2020. Real house prices (i.e., prices adjusted for inflation) rose in 43 out of the 55 world’s housing markets which have so far published housing statistics.
The more upbeat nominal figures, more familiar to the public, showed house price rises in 45 countries, and declines in only 10 countries.

https://www.globalpropertyguide.com/investment-analysis/Q3-2020-Global-house-price-boom-strengthens-despite-Covid-19-crisis

cnocbui · 16-02-2021 10:17PM

Yurt! wrote: »

There's more to the world than anglo-countries you know. These are the countries with the most liberalised financial sectors and 'hands-off' attitude from governments. It's primarily a cultural problem as well as an economic and social one, as evidenced by your dismissive post.

It's no surprise that Anglo countries are experiencing this issue most acutely. If you want to take these countries as 'the world', go ahead. But you're highlighting the worst in class, and I'd rather Ireland not go down that road when there are clear alternatives how to approach this problem if there was the political will to do so.

Try some of my links above - it's a global trend, mate, and not confined to evil 'anglo' countries. Canada, Australia and New Zealand are better places to live, IMO, than Ireland. So what's your criteria for worst in class? I could do with a laugh.

Yurt2 · 16-02-2021 10:25PM

cnocbui wrote: »

Try some of my links above - it's a global trend, mate, and not confined to evil 'anglo' countries. Canada, Australia and New Zealand are better places to live, IMO, than Ireland. So what's your criteria for worst in class? I could do with a laugh.

Tell you what mate, I could get stuck in and make you look rather silly on your OECD stats from your Google-fu, but you're just one of those posters. I've a cheese toasty ready and I'm mid way through a Netflix series. Find someone else to coax into your playpen.

cnocbui · 16-02-2021 10:46PM

Yurt! wrote: »

Tell you what mate, I could get stuck in and make you look rather silly on your OECD stats from your Google-fu, but you're just one of those posters. I've a cheese toasty ready and I'm mid way through a Netflix series. Find someone else to coax into your playpen.

Don't forget your ball.

thefridge2006 · 16-02-2021 11:00PM

cnocbui wrote: »

Try some of my links above - it's a global trend, mate, and not confined to evil 'anglo' countries. Canada, Australia and New Zealand are better places to live, IMO, than Ireland. So what's your criteria for worst in class? I could do with a laugh.

Nobody's forcing you to stay

Graham · 16-02-2021 11:05PM

Mod Note

knock it off.

PropQueries · 17-02-2021 12:20AM

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

You know its going bad when TD's tried to pressure the ESRI into not saying the shared equity scheme would push up prices, thankfully they did say it anyways.

TDs deny they tried to 'pressure' ESRI to withdraw criticism of Affordable Housing Bill

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40227935.html

They really laid into that poor ESRI employee today:

“ESRI officer defends comments on housing scheme amid Government pushback”

“Independent Senator Victor Boyhan welcomed the institute’s input. “I don’t believe you set out to upset people but I do believe you have given us a dose of reality,” he said.”

Talk about blaming the messenger. They must be really worried the whole housing market is built on sand to be this angry about what should basically be just another insignificant report IMO

Link to Irish Times article here: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/esri-officer-defends-comments-on-housing-scheme-amid-government-pushback-1.4486703

Blue Badger · 17-02-2021 12:49AM

Am chucking down some interesting snippets from the Ibec report positing the benefits of a shared equity scheme for the country; see the link if you want to read the entire report

(https://www.propertyindustry.ie/Sectors/PII/PII.nsf/vPages/Publications~the-irish-equity-loan-29-06-2020/%24file/The+Irish+Equity+Loan+June+2020+version+3+July+2020.pdf)

MacronvFrugals · 17-02-2021 01:15AM

PropQueries wrote: »

They really laid into that poor ESRI employee today:

“ESRI officer defends comments on housing scheme amid Government pushback”

“Independent Senator Victor Boyhan welcomed the institute’s input. “I don’t believe you set out to upset people but I do believe you have given us a dose of reality,” he said.”

Talk about blaming the messenger. They must be really worried the whole housing market is built on sand to be this angry about what should basically be just another insignificant report IMO

Link to Irish Times article here: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/esri-officer-defends-comments-on-housing-scheme-amid-government-pushback-1.4486703

It further highlights why any discrepancies in figures needs to be queried.

Imagine a scheme written by a group of lobbyists tied to the property sector then when the independent people we trust are asked their view on it TDs don’t want to hear it, banana republic stuff

poker--addict · 17-02-2021 01:29AM

In all 3 examples gov will provide greater assistance for apartments, and the upper limit for apartments is higher than homes. Why?

I am sad to read we are promoting 485,000 euro apartments. Our policy makers are obsessed with apartments. I wonder how many of them have raised a child in the shoebox size apartments we endorse in Ireland?

These equity schemes should get families into family homes. If we want more families to be raised in apartments then change regs to insist on larger units, we are doing the opposite.

jill_valentine · 17-02-2021 01:52AM

poker--addict wrote: »

In all 3 examples gov will provide greater assistance for apartments, and the upper limit for apartments is higher than homes. Why?

I am sad to read we are promoting 485,000 euro apartments. Our policy makers are obsessed with apartments. I wonder how many of them have raised a child in the shoebox size apartments we endorse in Ireland?

These equity schemes should get families into family homes. If we want more families to be raised in apartments then change regs to insist on larger units, we are doing the opposite.

In theory, we do need lots of apartments, because single people, particularly men, are overrepresented in homelessness figures, and removing the rent incentive to wedge 9 people into a three bed would go a long way.

But the government consistently develops schemes that serve only to raise the cost of housing, and units in that kind of price range are useless except as safe deposit boxes. Mid range 1 and 2 bed apartments are exactly what need rn and they're like gold dust.

combat14 · 17-02-2021 02:12AM

varadker states pay cuts and tax rises on the way albeit delayed for another little while .. reassuring for those buying a house and worth factoring in when getting a mortgage the next while .. last time the pay cuts to public servants and tax rises were brutal & swingeing - who knows what they will be like this time with govt debt absolutely soaring at present

There will be no cuts to public sector pay or increase in income tax for “at least for the first couple of years” after the pandemic, Tánaiste Leo Varadkar has said.

https://m.independent.ie/news/tanaiste-commits-to-no-post-pandemic-tax-hikes-or-cuts-to-public-sector-pay-40100605.html

Hubertj · 17-02-2021 07:46AM

combat14 wrote: »

varadker states pay cuts and tax rises on the way albeit delayed for another little while .. reassuring for those buying a house and worth factoring in when getting a mortgage the next while .. last time the pay cuts to public servants and tax rises were brutal & swingeing - who knows what they will be like this time with govt debt absolutely soaring at present

There will be no cuts to public sector pay or increase in income tax for “at least for the first couple of years” after the pandemic, Tánaiste Leo Varadkar has said.

https://m.independent.ie/news/tanaiste-commits-to-no-post-pandemic-tax-hikes-or-cuts-to-public-sector-pay-40100605.html

How would you suggest debt is repaid? Of course taxes will increase. I think we will see an increase in property taxes and other measures to broaden the tax base. Such increases will be done over a longer period of time.
Public servants are in a very privileged position.

Hubertj · 17-02-2021 08:19AM

Interesting to see how this plays out. With so many options KPMG can get a good deal here which will place downward pressure on grade A offices in Dublin going forward.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/six-of-the-best-in-bid-to-deliver-new-dublin-hq-for-kpmg-1.4486605

PropQueries · 17-02-2021 10:07AM

combat14 wrote: »

varadker states pay cuts and tax rises on the way albeit delayed for another little while .. reassuring for those buying a house and worth factoring in when getting a mortgage the next while .. last time the pay cuts to public servants and tax rises were brutal & swingeing - who knows what they will be like this time with govt debt absolutely soaring at present

There will be no cuts to public sector pay or increase in income tax for “at least for the first couple of years” after the pandemic, Tánaiste Leo Varadkar has said.

https://m.independent.ie/news/tanaiste-commits-to-no-post-pandemic-tax-hikes-or-cuts-to-public-sector-pay-40100605.html

So in two years time we will start paying back our debt and pay the salaries for the additional 70,000 public sector workers they intend to hire over the 19 month period starting March 2020.

And they're going to do all this without increasing taxes or cutting public sector pay? To me, that only really leaves pensions and property that's left to be taxed at that stage and in the meantime IMO

Link to Irish Times article on Michael McGrath hiring 70,000 additional public sector workers over the 19 month period starting March 2020: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/number-of-public-servants-to-rise-to-370-000-over-next-19-months-1.4482201

hmmm · 17-02-2021 10:11AM

jill_valentine wrote: »

In theory, we do need lots of apartments, because single people, particularly men, are overrepresented in homelessness figures, and removing the rent incentive to wedge 9 people into a three bed would go a long way.

But the government consistently develops schemes that serve only to raise the cost of housing, and units in that kind of price range are useless except as safe deposit boxes. Mid range 1 and 2 bed apartments are exactly what need rn and they're like gold dust.

Yeah, we need lots more apartments and density in general. There is this obsession with "housing for families" when there are vast numbers of single people and couples who also need somewhere to live and don't want to live in a semi-d with a big commute. The demographics are suggesting that we will have a lot more 2 person households in the future, I think McWilliams keeps going on about this. Not every housing unit has to have room for kids, a garden and a pony.

PropQueries · 17-02-2021 10:25AM

hmmm wrote: »

Yeah, we need lots more apartments and density in general. There is this obsession with "housing for families" when there are vast numbers of single people and couples who also need somewhere to live and don't want to live in a semi-d with a big commute. The demographics are suggesting that we will have a lot more 2 person households in the future, I think McWilliams keeps going on about this. Not every housing unit has to have room for kids, a garden and a pony.

I think they definitely should build apartments in the city but I think the issue is that given the rents they intend to charge, two incomes will be required to pay the proposed rents i.e. a couple/family? So, they're not aimed at single people IMO

And, if we're honest, the primary reason people have less children these days is primarily due to the cost of housing, so it's kind of a self fullfilling prophesy?

Blue Badger · 17-02-2021 11:34AM

https://open.spotify.com/episode/7odXQx148qwbXrrNJBFH9C?si=nUo8h5zlRVWk8W7AMO5iMg

^link for this morning's newstalk breakfast show with the housing minister discussing the new housing bill and being questioned about what the ESRI is warning

2021 Irish Property Market chat - *mod warnings post 1*

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2021 Irish Property Market chat - mod warnings post 1