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Mens Rights Thread

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,876 ✭✭✭iptba


    iptba wrote: »
    (Not important)


    https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/katie-taylor-is-the-irish-times-sport-ireland-sportswoman-of-the-year-for-2020-1.4440547

    They could easily have gender balance by having monthly prizes for sportswomen and sportsmen and similarly an annual award for men and women.
    Sunday Times Style supplement also has “Women of the Year”.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,876 ✭✭✭iptba


    (Not important)
    Motivation Monday: Six Irish women you should follow online
    https://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/food/arid-40177362.html
    Don't recall seeing any "6 Irish men you should follow"/similar anytime recently.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,876 ✭✭✭iptba


    There is a lot of talk about a gender pay gap. Some people (usually men; quite rarely gender researchers, it seems) will highlight that men often work in worse or dangerous conditions to earn extra money.

    One example I'm not sure is mentioned much is long-distance lorry drivers who are overwhelmingly male.
    Quite a bit of discussion with the tailbacks now about this. For example, a man was interviewed, who will be sleeping in a 4' x 4' space.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,876 ✭✭✭iptba


    'My ex-wife wants to hurt me. I don't know if I'll see my kids over Christmas'

    The more fathers and mothers that talk about their experience of alienation, the better for our society. It is in the silent spaces that abuse thrives.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/relationships/arid-40187673.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 817 ✭✭✭purifol0


    "Even in a pandemic, it’s still a man’s world", standard fare from the Irish Times Jennifer O' Connell. Uses Minister for Justice Helen McEntee as an example.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/jennifer-o-connell-even-in-a-pandemic-it-s-still-a-man-s-world-1.4443012

    Meanwhile in "Mans World" 4500 male truck drivers spent Christmas week stranded in a queue on the M20 near the Port of Dover. One driver described the conditions: "We have no food, we have no water, and we don't know when we can get home."

    https://www.dw.com/en/uk-port-chaos-truckers-face-roadside-christmas/a-56056694


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,876 ✭✭✭iptba


    purifol0 wrote: »
    "Even in a pandemic, it’s still a man’s world", standard fare from the Irish Times Jennifer O' Connell. Uses Minister for Justice Helen McEntee as an example.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/jennifer-o-connell-even-in-a-pandemic-it-s-still-a-man-s-world-1.4443012

    Meanwhile in "Mans World" 4500 male truck drivers spent Christmas week stranded in a queue on the M20 near the Port of Dover. One driver described the conditions: "We have no food, we have no water, and we don't know when we can get home."

    https://www.dw.com/en/uk-port-chaos-truckers-face-roadside-christmas/a-56056694
    The Irish Times article is behind a paywall but people who can't access it really aren't missing much: it's completely unbalanced.

    Here are a few comments underneath it, which otherwise will disappear in a day or two (though they are generally not amazing either):
    Good point about the maternity leave for ministers, that has to be fixed. The other points are a bit ludicrous really - more of the same, mad at the world for the human condition.
    As for that human condition, boys develop faster in gestation leading to a greater proportion of boys dying in childbirth than girls, boys with their pesky xy chromosones are more likely to develop sex-based genetic illnesses that girls simply cannot get, men die in greater numbers of heart disease, violent crime, etc. and finally, male journalists who write toxic arcticles (think John Waters, Kevin Myarse), lose their jobs in greater numbers than female journalists who write toxic misandrist articles. Men or women, boys or girls, it's a tough world out there!
    J O'C throughout this spite filled rant omits one rather salient point. You are far more likely to die of Covid 19 if you're male. Lazy, badly written article and unfortunately all too often the norm in the modern Paper of Record. Bringing in female light weight journalists to write such opinion pieces might get the editor a pat on the back from the diversity ayatollahs but does nothing for the quality of the Irish Times. Nothing.
    To sum...all men powerful, selfish and bad...can we not just be put out of our misery at this stage 😀
    Maternity leave is an issue of workers and women's rights but a TD is not an employee in the conventional sense but a voluntary high office holder who is entitled to their pay and conditions during a maternity or any other absence in any case. The issue of pairing is a red herring - arrangements for such are made by whips routinely. Holly Cairns is merely seeking publicity for herself by her intervention. In the case of a minister the issue is of assigning another person to take over their responsibilities during a period of absence. Usually another Minister can be assigned for a period. It’s not really a problem. Conflating this case with anecdotal domestic violence threats and the like isn’t convincing analysis but rather vacuous carping and crowd stirring.
    Whinge, whinge, nag, nag. Victimhood, victimhood. Misery, misery.
    Sadly, J O'C is a hate filled miserable excuse for a female human being - the exact opposite to the vibrant, energetic and positive females I generally come into contact with.
    The guy that got to see his newborn for a total of one hour over a period of four days, was he not affected also?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,876 ✭✭✭iptba


    https://twitter.com/darakass/status/1343754550562459648?s=20
    etc.
    https://twitter.com/darakass/status/1343754559848665090?s=20


    Dara Kass, MD
    @darakass
    Women’s symbol She, Her, Wife, Mom Restroom Doctor, Boss, FemInEM, Columbia EM, Yahoo News Medical Contributor #TIMESUPHC: Tweets are my own.
    FEMALES WORKING IN EMERGENCY MEDICINE

    Fairly popular thread that turned up in my Twitter feed. I am interested in Covid in general, but dislike how the focus in the final tweet is on a "white male". It was the mother who said he could come in, if he had a test. Also, is there any evidence that white females are less likely to behave like this? In Ireland, there seems to be more females than males that get Covid. There may be reasons for that, but it's not clear to me that there is a clear gender divide in behaviours.


  • Registered Users Posts: 817 ✭✭✭purifol0


    iptba wrote: »


    Whether or not this scenario is genuine or imagined what is absolutely real is her clear hatred of men, bonus if you're a white one. I can't help thinking that how she can be employed to treat both sexes equally when she very clearly has a public bias against 50% of patients.


    Also creating/joining a workers union/association where the condition of your membership is your sex (unless its a sports team) just sows division in the workplace and leads to unfair conditions & vested interests.


    Small comfort its on the other side of the Atlantic, I'm much more concerned about the ones over here.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    purifol0 wrote: »
    Also creating/joining a workers union/association where the condition of your membership is your sex (unless its a sports team) just sows division in the workplace and leads to unfair conditions & vested interests.

    Isn't that illegal? Weren't male associations broken up in the 80s/90s for being exclusively male? Sure, there can be informal clubs, but anything formal in the workplace must be open to all genders. No?


  • Registered Users Posts: 817 ✭✭✭purifol0


    Isn't that illegal? Weren't male associations broken up in the 80s/90s for being exclusively male? Sure, there can be informal clubs, but anything formal in the workplace must be open to all genders. No?


    Its a tweet from an American. She is a proud member of Females in Emergency Medicine and lists pronouns in her bio.


    Folks I used to laugh at the woke culture gone mad over there, but since we import US culture wholesale it didn't take long for the madness to take hold over here, and its getting worse - this thread is proof.


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    purifol0 wrote: »
    Its a tweet from an American. She is a proud member of Females in Emergency Medicine and lists pronouns in her bio.


    Folks I used to laugh at the woke culture gone mad over there, but since we import US culture wholesale it didn't take long for the madness to take hold over here, and its getting worse - this thread is proof.

    Yes, it's getting worse, but we're actually quite lucky.

    The US is tearing itself apart with all this woke, feminist, SJW nonsense, and the case studies of companies failing due to the policies implemented to pander to the nonsense are starting to come through. People are becoming far less patient with the whining about unintended consequences.

    Like the lack of mentoring resources for female managers, because males in superior positions don't want to be alone with them. Or how female employees are passed over for trips involving nights, because male managers don't want to be in the same hotel as their employees. All of which shows the fear of male staff due to the woke stuff... Even female managers have started saying they don't want to be alone with other staff due their fear of indecent proposals and the possible claims that might be made (regardless of gender). There are heaps of examples to choose from.

    There will be a blow-back because this is directly affecting profits, and efficiency. We're lucky because Ireland hasn't had much exposure/acceptance of this stuff yet, and we might manage to avoid the worst of it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,876 ✭✭✭iptba


    Isn't that illegal? Weren't male associations broken up in the 80s/90s for being exclusively male? Sure, there can be informal clubs, but anything formal in the workplace must be open to all genders. No?
    Just curious what male associations were there that disbanded? It might be useful to cite at some stage.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭99nsr125


    Yes, it's getting worse, but we're actually quite lucky.

    The US is tearing itself apart with all this woke, feminist, SJW nonsense, and the case studies of companies failing due to the policies implemented to pander to the nonsense are starting to come through. People are becoming far less patient with the whining about unintended consequences.

    Like the lack of mentoring resources for female managers, because males in superior positions don't want to be alone with them. Or how female employees are passed over for trips involving nights, because male managers don't want to be in the same hotel as their employees. All of which shows the fear of male staff due to the woke stuff... Even female managers have started saying they don't want to be alone with other staff due their fear of indecent proposals and the possible claims that might be made (regardless of gender). There are heaps of examples to choose from.

    There will be a blow-back because this is directly affecting profits, and efficiency. We're lucky because Ireland hasn't had much exposure/acceptance of this stuff yet, and we might manage to avoid the worst of it.

    Klaz can you please post references to the case studies and other points you mention.

    I would be very interested in reading them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,876 ✭✭✭iptba


    Official blindness to sexual abuse of men and boys is costing lives – Tom Wood

    An unusual story made the inside pages the other week. A male musician, a piper with the Red Hot Chilli Pipers, broke the customary silence to complain about the regular groping and upkilting he and his band mates suffer at the hands of women attending their gigs.
    Tom Wood is a writer and former deputy chief constable.

    https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/official-blindness-sexual-abuse-men-and-boys-costing-lives-tom-wood-3072678


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,876 ✭✭✭iptba


    I'm surpriser this thread doesn't seem to focus on the ridiculously unqual treatment by the courts for males and females. All over the world males receive considerably more harsh punishment for the same crimes. I can't post links but if you google it you should find studies which support this.

    Yes, it's an interesting area

    https://www.law.umich.edu/newsandinfo/features/Pages/starr_gender_disparities.aspx
    PROF. STARR'S RESEARCH SHOWS LARGE UNEXPLAINED GENDER DISPARITIES IN FEDERAL CRIMINAL CASES
    Nov. 16, 2012

    If you're a criminal defendant, it may help—a lot—to be a woman. At least, that's what Prof. Sonja Starr's research on federal criminal cases suggests. Prof. Starr's recent paper, "Estimating Gender Disparities in Federal Criminal Cases," looks closely at a large dataset of federal cases, and reveals some significant findings. After controlling for the arrest offense, criminal history, and other prior characteristics, "men receive 63% longer sentences on average than women do," and "[w]omen are…twice as likely to avoid incarceration if convicted." This gender gap is about six times as large as the racial disparity that Prof. Starr found in another recent paper.

    There are other studies that have shown gender disparity in criminal cases, but not as pronounced as Prof. Starr's findings. This is because she is looking at "a larger swath of the criminal justice process" in her analysis, she said. The paper states, "Existing studies have typically focused on single stages of the criminal process in isolation"—in particular, the judge's final sentencing decision. These studies compare actual sentencing outcomes after controlling for the recommended sentence associated with the defendant's ultimate conviction. The problem with this, Starr explains, is that "the key control variable is itself the result of a host of discretionary decisions made earlier in the justice process"—including prosecutors' charging and plea-bargaining decisions. Starr's research incorporates disparities found at those earlier stages, and finds that "more disparity is introduced at each phase of the justice process."

    After estimating the amount of disparity left unexplained by the arrest offense and other control variables, the paper explores "why these gaps exist—and, in particular, whether unobserved differences between men and women might justify them." Prof. Starr explores several potential mitigating factors, such as the "girlfriend theory" (that "[w]omen might be viewed as…mere accessories of their male romantic partners"), the role of women as primary caregivers to their children, and the "theory that female defendants receive leniency because they are more cooperative with the government." Although each of these theories found some support in the data, they did not appear capable of explaining anything close to the total disparity that Prof. Starr found.
    Prof. Starr emphasized that it is not possible to "prove" gender discrimination with data like hers, because it is always possible that two seemingly similar cases could differ in ways not captured by the data. Given the size of the apparent gender gap and the richness of the dataset (which allowed many alternative explanations to be explored), however, Starr believes that there is "pretty good reason to suspect that disparate treatment may be one of the causes of this gap."

    If men and women are being treated differently by prosecutors and judges, what should be done about it? Prof. Starr leaves that question to policymakers, but she does note that the solution "is not necessarily to lock up a lot more women, but perhaps to reconsider the decision-making criteria that are applied to men. About one in every fifty American men is currently behind bars, and we could think about gender disparity as perhaps being a key dimension of that problem."

    From the UK
    Judges told: 'be more lenient to women criminals'
    Judges have been told to deal less severely with female criminals than men when determining how to sentence them.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/7995844/Judges-told-be-more-lenient-to-women-criminals.html
    Judges ordered to show more mercy on women criminals when deciding sentences
    By STEVE DOUGHTY FOR THE DAILY MAIL

    Judges have been told to treat female criminals more leniently than men when deciding sentences.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1311004/Judges-ordered-mercy-women-criminals-deciding-sentences.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,876 ✭✭✭iptba


    I'm surprised this thread doesn't seem to focus on the ridiculously unqual treatment by the courts for males and females. All over the world males receive considerably more harsh punishment for the same crimes. I can't post links but if you google it you should find studies which support this.


    Some information from Ireland

    I posted some data on some official statistics from Ireland comparing sentencing for men and women here:
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=65105082&postcount=175

    ---
    Seanad Éireann debate

    https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/2008-05-20/2/
    Senator Ivana Bacik:
    [..]
    This week, we are fortunate to receive a visit from Baroness Jean Corston from the British House of Lords who produced a very radical report last year on women in prison and who recommended, after a very thorough review, that prison places for women should essentially be abolished and that there should just be a small number of small detention units for women. Otherwise, alternative sanctions should be used. We could very much learn from the lessons of that report.

    I am happy to say that Baroness Corston will be visiting Leinster House on Thursday. Deputy Mary O’Rourke and I are hosting a meeting with her for all women Members of the Oireachtas. I am sorry that we cannot invite any male colleagues interested in this issue to the briefing with Baroness Corston.


    Senator David Norris: Image Image Why not?


    Senator Ivana Bacik: I would be happy to meet them to discuss the issues at another time.


    Here's a quote I came across when looking for something else:
    The Report of the Committee of Inquiry into the Irish Prison System

    (the Whitaker Report), published in 1985, identified women in prison as a particularly vulnerable group. It recommended that, in so far as possible, women offenders should be given non-custodial penalties and that of those imprisoned the majority should be accommodated in an open prison.1

    1. Report of the Committee of Inquiry into the Penal System, Dublin: Stationery Office, 1985, p. 75.

    This is one example that this idea that there should be different sentences for women has been around a while.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,585 ✭✭✭✭cj maxx


    Just on how men and women are stereotyped. In all , and I mean all the ads about coercive control , it is ALWAYS a female victim and a Male abuser. I how of several cases where the opposite could be said , but never even a mention


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭99nsr125


    cj maxx wrote: »
    Just on how men and women are stereotyped. In all , and I mean all the ads about coercive control , it is ALWAYS a female victim and a Male abuser. I how of several cases where the opposite could be said , but never even a mention

    Coercive control, been there

    I had two relationships where she turned nuttso / toxic, they were probably was always that way.

    Very scary and dangerous.

    One where a pregnancy and a miscarriage was faked

    Would recieve abusive messages at 6 o'clock in the morning, then I would be accused of neglect or anything else you could think of.

    I still have the messages, I might post them anonymised
    I kept the messages as evidence of the coercive control.

    I actually think women are far more likely to engage in coercive control but men just never report.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,585 ✭✭✭✭cj maxx


    I've been too. Still am in a way. Taking bank/insurance any official document and scanning t . Stealing phone sim cards to use the number as a trusted device etc. Threatening self harm abortions. Stealing stealing and more stealing.
    Thankfully they (ni assembly)seem to be bringing laws in . As the psni said it wasn't against the law if it didn't have a monetary value. A complete control freak, and the same with the kids.
    In a way it has demoralised me completely. Surely only a fool , or masochism, would put up with that shît


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,847 ✭✭✭py2006


    99nsr125 wrote: »
    I actually think women are far more likely to engage in coercive control but men just never report.

    I think you are right. I have certainly seen it a lot more in women. The whole "happy wife, happy life" thing is played out as a joke by men. But there is a more sinister side to it I think.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,876 ✭✭✭iptba


    I wasn’t on Twitter much today but did see a Central Statistics Office tweet about #NollaignamBan. Wouldn’t be surprised with all the tweets I see on the hashtag if it trended again this year with so many posts by individuals and entities of one sort or another. Many likely do less on International Men’s Day but the same if not more on International Women’s Day.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,876 ✭✭✭iptba


    Just came across another network for women where if a similar network existed for men, it would likely be frowned on: Women in Medicine in Ireland network


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,876 ✭✭✭iptba


    Here's the latest batch of gender-related hashtags I have noticed trending for anyone interested (I know some are not)
    (Aside: I'm not on Twitter 24/7 of course and don't look back at lists for when I wasn't on)

    Also following clearing out cookies and the like from my desktop, I am no longer automatically shown trending hashtags, but instead a variety of items (I can click on to see trending hashtags, but only do that a few times a day). So I'll probably be highlighting a variety of trending topics and hashtags from now on

    "All the Grammy nominees for Best Rock Performance are women"

    #WeWillBeHeard
    https://twitter.com/anyabike/status/1331325390342803460
    https://twitter.com/AmnestyIreland/status/1331295333104701441

    Scotland becomes the first country in the world to make sanitary products free

    Jordan Peterson
    https://twitter.com/MaajidNawaz/status/1331523815369830400

    #YesItsAbuse

    TERFs

    Dara Quigley
    https://twitter.com/ICCLtweet/status/1332271199884337153

    Inside Finland's government led by women in their 30s
    A year will soon have passed since Finland's new coalition government headed by five women started work. The BBC gets world exclusive access to that year.
    https://twitter.com/i/events/1332297940023513088
    https://twitter.com/meghamohan/status/1332322992098078725
    https://twitter.com/BBC100women/status/1332700785453522944

    #16days
    16 Days of Action against Gender-Based Violence

    #JusticeForJohnnyDepp

    Here Are The World's 100 Most Powerful Women

    Inside Johnny Depp's self-made implosion

    Jobless women selling nudes on OnlyFans are struggling to pay bills

    #BidenErasedWomen

    Groups for men and women I came across:
    Cork Traveller Women’s Network


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,229 ✭✭✭deandean


    iptba wrote: »
    Just came across another network for women where if a similar network existed for men, it would likely be frowned on: Women in Medicine in Ireland network
    I'm not in the profession, but if I was I would start a network for the in-danger of extinction 'Men in Primary Teaching in Ireland'.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,876 ✭✭✭iptba


    Another group for women. And another article saying Covid is worse for women.
    Women bearing the brunt of Covid pain and drastic action is needed

    The majority of healthcare workers are women, and both formal and informal caring roles mostly fall to women as well. Then there is the additional challenge of increased pressure on the domestic front, writes campaign group Covid Women’s Voices
    https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/commentanalysis/arid-40219310.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 545 ✭✭✭CageWager


    iptba wrote: »
    Another group for women. And another article saying Covid is worse for women.


    https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/commentanalysis/arid-40219310.html

    Majority men in a profession: tyranny
    Majority women in a profession: exploitation


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭99nsr125


    iptba wrote: »
    Another group for women. And another article saying Covid is worse for women.


    https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/commentanalysis/arid-40219310.html

    So what they are saying is in a

    Well paid
    Well educated
    Well unionised sector
    Where women are 80% of the workforce
    They're not able to hack it

    Maybe if there was more men they'd be less moaning . . .


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    99nsr125 wrote: »
    So what they are saying is in a

    Well paid
    Well educated
    Well unionised sector
    Where women are 80% of the workforce
    They're not able to hack it

    Maybe if there was more men they'd be less moaning . . .

    Unlikely. To be fair, in any industry where unions have influence, a crapton of moaning and a sense of entitlement exists. In most cases, Unions have outlasted their usefulness, and cause more problems than they solve.

    Even back when there were a reasonable number of men in primary schools, there was plenty of complaining. You can see it in the secondary schools, where there is a greater balance of genders for teachers (My parents are teachers, as is my sister and I've grown up hearing about the various issues, and the unions)

    Nursing is a remarkably difficult job in the best of times, and as time as gone by, they've been forced into roles which weren't traditionally part of nursing ( although so too have teachers and Gardai/police).

    All the same, the point of women being worse affected by covid is BS.. it's more of the gender wars crap that continues to be promoted.. equality is something women had, found they didn't like it, and now, we're seeing a bid for superior rights. And they'll probably get it, because men just aren't effective moaners.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,876 ✭✭✭iptba


    Another person highlighting only women's suffering, this time the Pope:
    Pope's prayer intention for February: For women who are victims of violence
    Pope Francis' prayer intention for the month of February sends a powerful message against the various kinds of violence against women, which he describes as the “degradation of all humanity”.
    https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/news/2021-02/pope-s-prayer-intention-for-february.html


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,876 ✭✭✭iptba


    I was just listening to a repeat of Lunchtime Live on Newstalk today and a woman talked about her husband having an affair.
    I have come across a lot of women who will badmouth their exes publicly.
    Men seem to me to be on average more reluctant.

    I think this could lead to a skewed view of men and women in relationships where people pick up that men behave much worse in relationships than women on average.


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