What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

Mullaghteelin · 13-02-2021 10:15PM

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

The lack of drilled down planning for the vaccination programme has been an embarrassment for the EU though. I'm pro-EU, I criticise because I want them and Ireland to do well.

I respect and applaud this attitude. Too many of us refuse to criticise 'our' side because we equate it with helping or supporting the opposite side.

wexfordman2 · 13-02-2021 10:51PM

https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/short_news/four-eu-leaders-were-offered-separate-deals-with-astrazeneca/

Four EU member states were offered to sign separate COVID-19 vaccine agreements, out of the EU deals framework, with British-Swedish pharmaceutical company AstraZeneca in order to get vaccines faster than others, Czech PM Andrej Babiš unveiled on 11 February.

NeuralNetwork · 14-02-2021 12:07AM

I think the biggest issues with the EU programme are likely that:

1) It has very little experience doing a complex procurement like this.
2) The initial programme was too narrow and seemed to be getting driven by an attempt to drive the costs down, rather than the speed up. Although I think it's also worth remembering that at the early stages there was a fairly relaxed attitude from several member states who were relatively lightly impacted.
3) It should have been much more involved with the companies much earlier on.

If they pull out the stops and get this ramped up again quickly, the reputation may be saved and there are advantages to doing it 'en bloc' but it needs to be done much better than it has been to date.

Wolf359f · 14-02-2021 12:10AM

wexfordman2 wrote: »

https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/short_news/four-eu-leaders-were-offered-separate-deals-with-astrazeneca/

Four EU member states were offered to sign separate COVID-19 vaccine agreements, out of the EU deals framework, with British-Swedish pharmaceutical company AstraZeneca in order to get vaccines faster than others, Czech PM Andrej Babiš unveiled on 11 February.

“A company, an intermediary from Dubai. With 50% prepayment,” he said.

Does that not just sound like they replied to a scam Nigerian email?

14-02-2021 12:11AM

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Every private company on the planet wants governments (or collections thereof) waving wads of cash at them but not getting directly involved as they complicate things and introduce more bureaucracy. No doubt if the EU had invested more than just enormous sums of money in the process, there would be howls from the same people about them getting involved and still blaming any issues on them.

AZ got more than €300m of EU money upfront. If they wanted more help from the EU they should have looked for it under the contract or after that. Instead they told the EU in late Nov/early Dec that they would only deliver 80% of what they signed up to deliver in the next quarter. Then, in the delivery quarter, they notified that it would only be 30% of the contracted amount. Again, you can't sign up to something and then decide after the fact that you wanted more from the other party.

It’s irrelevant what Astra Zeneca may or may not want. The EU took responsibility for sourcing the vaccines and they have failed.

Wolf359f · 14-02-2021 12:27AM

Aegir wrote: »

It’s irrelevant what Astra Zeneca may or may not want. The EU took responsibility for sourcing the vaccines and they have failed.

So a hypothetical question. If the US approve AZ and AZ divert all supplies manufactured in the EU to the US, that's the EU's fault in your eyes?
If J&J get's approved in the EU and J&J decide to renege on the EU contract and supply everyone but the EU, that's the EU's fault, yeah?

Happydays2020 · 14-02-2021 12:28AM

wexfordman2 wrote: »

https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/short_news/four-eu-leaders-were-offered-separate-deals-with-astrazeneca/

Four EU member states were offered to sign separate COVID-19 vaccine agreements, out of the EU deals framework, with British-Swedish pharmaceutical company AstraZeneca in order to get vaccines faster than others, Czech PM Andrej Babiš unveiled on 11 February.

Maybe look up Babiš and his history.

Danzy · 14-02-2021 09:44AM

robinph wrote: »

Difficult to find the numbers, but more than half of the 15 million vaccines stuck in people's arms in the UK so far are Pfizer ones, think the same for the US. Why didn't the EU get their hands on some of those doses too?

Someone else's fault.

robinph · 14-02-2021 11:40AM

Wolf359f wrote: »

So a hypothetical question. If the US approve AZ and AZ divert all supplies manufactured in the EU to the US, that's the EU's fault in your eyes?
If J&J get's approved in the EU and J&J decide to renege on the EU contract and supply everyone but the EU, that's the EU's fault, yeah?

If the EU has only placed an order with one supplier for their population then yes, that is the EU's fault if they end up having no vaccines available from anywhere else in the event of a problem.

Whatever problems there are with the Astra Zeneca roll out, they are not the main supplier of vaccines so far in the UK. They are likely to be going forward, but so far most people in the UK have received the Pfizer one. The EU's problems are not just down to any problem they might be having with getting doses from AstraZeneca.

brickster69 · 14-02-2021 12:06PM

robinph wrote: »

Difficult to find the numbers, but more than half of the 15 million vaccines stuck in people's arms in the UK so far are Pfizer ones, think the same for the US. Why didn't the EU get their hands on some of those doses too?

Agreements were signed

EU 11/11/2020
USA 22/7/2020
UK 20/7/2020

US & UK took the risk of getting in very early, EU waited till the trials were more or less completed. If Pfizer failed in September UK & US would of done there dough. The EU would of still had it's cash in it's pocket.

fly_agaric · 14-02-2021 01:44PM

robinph wrote: »

Difficult to find the numbers, but more than half of the 15 million vaccines stuck in people's arms in the UK so far are Pfizer ones, think the same for the US. Why didn't the EU get their hands on some of those doses too?

Then presumably the UK and any other countries around the world [excl. the US] using that vaccine would have gotten even less? It is a zero sum game, given the vaccines are new, not very easy to produce (as far as I'm aware), in short supply and IP (and plants capable of making them) are controlled by a few large companies.
Such would have been "vaccine war" would it not, given that having exports being checked/monitored by the EU countries (but not by anyone else) is dubbed "vaccine nationalism".

In the US I think all Covid-19 vaccines that the Pharma companies produce there are for the US's use only. It is not exporting any as far as I am aware (?). The 2 Pharma MNCs (Pfizer/Moderna) with successful/approved vaccines are producing vaccine for the US in the US.

The UK has secured production capacity for the successful AstraZeneca vaccine and from what its politicians say all vaccine produced there is for UKs use until their programme is completed to their satisfaction.

The EU were probably naive in hindsight.

mick087 · 14-02-2021 02:10PM

fly_agaric wrote: »

The EU were probably naive in hindsight.

Would the mist be starting to clear now?

Danzy · 14-02-2021 03:51PM

fly_agaric wrote: »

.

The EU were probably naive in hindsight.

Messing up the vaccine escape from the worst health, economic and social crisis in Europe since the 40s is more than being naive.

The EU is looking at many months of restrictions ahead, we are ahead of most of it.

Much of the EU is at risk of a 4th wave from the new variant.

It's a spectacular failure and a very costly one.

sameoldname · 14-02-2021 05:03PM

Danzy wrote: »

Messing up the vaccine escape from the worst health, economic and social crisis in Europe since the 40s is more than being naive.

The EU is looking at many months of restrictions ahead, we are ahead of most of it.

Much of the EU is at risk of a 4th wave from the new variant.

It's a spectacular failure and a very costly one.

So you agree with his point that the EU should have arranged the contracts so that EU production stays in the EU? And you wouldn't be upset about that even though the entire supply of the UK's Pfizer vaccine comes from the EU? Is that what you would support yeah?

JFK2000 · 14-02-2021 06:02PM

robinph wrote: »

Difficult to find the numbers, but more than half of the 15 million vaccines stuck in people's arms in the UK so far are Pfizer ones, think the same for the US. Why didn't the EU get their hands on some of those doses too?

Totally anecdotal evidence from London.... everyone in my wife's family or anyone we or they know that had gotten the jab so far. Has all been Pfizer. We have that number at 14 people so far. Might be a london geography bias or a deployment strategy based on the order they were approved .. but no one has had AZ or Moderna jab in my matrix of bubbles.

Call me Al · 14-02-2021 06:14PM

JFK2000 wrote: »

Totally anecdotal evidence from London.... everyone in my wife's family or anyone we or they know that had gotten the jab so far. Has all been Pfizer. We have that number at 14 people so far. Might be a london geography bias or a deployment strategy based on the order they were approved .. but no one has had AZ or Moderna jab in my matrix of bubbles.

Funnily enough that's my info from London family too. All Pfizer.

JP Liz V1 · 14-02-2021 06:15PM

Is this vaccine now in ROI?

is_that_so · 14-02-2021 06:31PM

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Is this vaccine now in ROI?

Yeah, now we have three, hopefully a 4th in March or April from J&J.

volchitsa · 14-02-2021 06:32PM

Call me Al wrote: »

Funnily enough that's my info from London family too. All Pfizer.

Anyone I know in NI has had Astra Zeneca. I'm talking about over 75s here, so just the people who could be doing with the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines. Different standards for the capital, perhaps?

JFK2000 · 14-02-2021 06:34PM

DaSilva wrote: »

I got absolutely roasted when I suggested I was fine taking the Oxford vaccine but that I wanted the over 60s in my family to get the Pfizer/Moderna vaccine.
You know, the over 60s being the folks who are actually at much higher risk of serious disease or death

I agree! give the best of whatever you have available to everyone as soon as you bloody well can.

I'm getting tired of the vaccine snobbery and fixation on efficacy percentages. The second message lost after the headline efficacy percentage is the important one. Of the small number of people who went on to contract covid importantly how serious was their illness. All the vaccines data i've read they all have almost 100% reduction in serious illness (hospitalisation) or death 4 weeks after after the course against common strains and the Brazil/UK varients. South african varient seems trickier all round for efficacy (that's the one to watch) but no results yet on the reduction of serious illness.

We can survive as a society with a vaccine that reduces the impact to a mild (symptoms) or moderate (feely pretty sht flu like symptoms). we can open up and start rebuilding economy jobs etc. etc. If we need a top up jab later so be it .

South africa stopped AZ because their new strain

stefanovich · 14-02-2021 06:34PM

So unfortunate that the UK left the EU. There vaccine program is so far behind the rest of Europe with only 15 million vaccines administered so far.

mista11 · 14-02-2021 07:01PM

JFK2000 wrote: »

I agree! give the best of whatever you have available to everyone as soon as you bloody well can.

I'm getting tired of the vaccine snobbery and fixation on efficacy percentages. The second message lost after the headline efficacy percentage is the important one. Of the small number of people who went on to contract covid importantly how serious was their illness. All the vaccines data i've read they all have almost 100% reduction in serious illness (hospitalisation) or death 4 weeks after after the course against common strains and the Brazil/UK varients. South african varient seems trickier all round for efficacy (that's the one to watch) but no results yet on the reduction of serious illness.

We can survive as a society with a vaccine that reduces the impact to a mild (symptoms) or moderate (feely pretty sht flu like symptoms). we can open up and start rebuilding economy jobs etc. etc. If we need a top up jab later so be it .

South africa stopped AZ because their new strain

Well Said, too many people trying to turn this thread into a contest when the real focus is on saving lives!

robinph · 14-02-2021 07:52PM

JFK2000 wrote: »

Totally anecdotal evidence from London.... everyone in my wife's family or anyone we or they know that had gotten the jab so far. Has all been Pfizer. We have that number at 14 people so far. Might be a london geography bias or a deployment strategy based on the order they were approved .. but no one has had AZ or Moderna jab in my matrix of bubbles.

Anyone I know having had a vaccine so far, from various parts of the country, has been Pfizer. The only Astra Zenica reports I've seen are only potential vaccinations from being in the trials.

14-02-2021 09:02PM

robinph wrote: »

Anyone I know having had a vaccine so far, from various parts of the country, has been Pfizer. The only Astra Zenica reports I've seen are only potential vaccinations from being in the trials.

My parents are in the south east and had the AZ one.

Tippbhoy1 · 14-02-2021 09:32PM

robinph wrote: »

Anyone I know having had a vaccine so far, from various parts of the country, has been Pfizer. The only Astra Zenica reports I've seen are only potential vaccinations from being in the trials.

JFK2000 wrote: »

Totally anecdotal evidence from London.... everyone in my wife's family or anyone we or they know that had gotten the jab so far. Has all been Pfizer. We have that number at 14 people so far. Might be a london geography bias or a deployment strategy based on the order they were approved .. but no one has had AZ or Moderna jab in my matrix of bubbles.

The uk don’t have the moderna vaccine yet so you won’t find anyone that has had it there.

I’d be extremely surprised if half the 15m in the uk have had Pfizer. The information doesn’t seem to be readily available so I can’t say with any certainty. Considering the uk is getting the majority of the AZ supply at present, the fact that deliveries of Pfizer have had delays for most blocs, the US have taken up most of the supply, and the uk have only ordered 40m in total of Pfizer whereas the Eu have ordered 600m, I would say it’s highly unlikely. Uk has lumped in for 100m AZ, I doubt the facilities are there for the transportation of Pfizer in those numbers.

robinph · 14-02-2021 09:58PM

Tippbhoy1 wrote: »

The uk don’t have the moderna vaccine yet so you won’t find anyone that has had it there.

I’d be extremely surprised if half the 15m in the uk have had Pfizer. The information doesn’t seem to be readily available so I can’t say with any certainty. Considering the uk is getting the majority of the AZ supply at present, the fact that deliveries of Pfizer have had delays for most blocs, the US have taken up most of the supply, and the uk have only ordered 40m in total of Pfizer whereas the Eu have ordered 600m, I would say it’s highly unlikely. Uk has lumped in for 100m AZ, I doubt the facilities are there for the transportation of Pfizer in those numbers.

Tricky to find numbers as you say, but the UK had vaccinated 6 or 7 million people before they even received any of the Astra Zenica.

Wolf359f · 14-02-2021 10:04PM

robinph wrote: »

Tricky to find numbers as you say, but the UK had vaccinated 6 or 7 million people before they even received any of the Astra Zenica.

First AZ dose in the UK was administered on Jan 4th, by the 10th (I couldn't find data for the 4th), they had a total of about 2.7mil vaccinated. Far lower than 6 or 7 mil.

Edit: Actually, Jan 3rd they had 1.4mil doses administered. It's then their vaccination figures really grow fast. Right about the time they started using AZ.

robinph · 14-02-2021 10:07PM

Wolf359f wrote: »

First AZ dose in the UK was administered on Jan 4th, by the 10th (I couldn't find data for the 4th), they had a total of about 2.7mil vaccinated. Far lower than 6 or 7 mil.

I'll admit that "any" was overstating it, but the doses were not arriving in any numbers at that point.

Wolf359f · 14-02-2021 10:16PM

robinph wrote: »

I'll admit that "any" was overstating it, but the doses were not arriving in any numbers at that point.

I can't really find any figures about AZ deliveries for the UK.
But it's weird that around 4th January their vaccination rate ramps up (the same day they started using AZ)

robinph · 14-02-2021 10:23PM

Wolf359f wrote: »

I can't really find any figures about AZ deliveries for the UK.
But it's weird that around 4th January their vaccination rate ramps up (the same day they started using AZ)

The charts I was looking at didn't show much change in the rate until nearer 20th January when they shot up. Anything before the 4th and it was all Bank Holidays and such like and nobody really knew who, what or where any vaccinations were happening.

What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

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