Is JJ Hanrahan Irish?

normanbond · 08-02-2021 9:30pm #1

Why is JJ Hanrahan constantly being overlooked for the Irish rugby set up?
Ireland suffering now as Johnny Sexton hasn’t got the full 80 mins in him.
Hanrahan: Top point scorer in the Pro 14 in 2020??
Shown that he has the bottle for the big occasion and playing great rugby again this year.
Still only 28 years old and making a bigger impact than Billy Burns? at Ulster and the Leinster reserve fly halves - the Byrne brothers!!

... maybe he’s not qualified to play for Ireland??

Mimon · 08-02-2021 9:35pm

normanbond wrote: »

Why is JJ Hanrahan constantly being overlooked for the Irish rugby set up?
Ireland suffering now as Johnny Sexton hasn’t got the full 80 mins in him.
Hanrahan: Top point scorer in the Pro 14 in 2020??
Shown that he has the bottle for the big occasion and playing great rugby again this year.
Still only 28 years old and making a bigger impact than Billy Burns? at Ulster and the Leinster reserve fly halves - the Byrne brothers!!

... maybe he’s not qualified to play for Ireland??

Oh c'mon, he has underwhelmed for years. A bit of form and two match winning performances recently doesn't make him International standard all of a sudden.

stayback · 08-02-2021 9:35pm

JJ was born and bred in Kerry played Ireland u20..

thomas 123 · 08-02-2021 9:37pm

Because he’s not good enough.

Was disappointing at Northampton, is disappointing now.

Carthy is the man at the moment. (Munster all my life)

thomas 123 · 08-02-2021 9:38pm

I think there is also sour milk over how he handled the Munster exit.

Jofspring · 08-02-2021 9:39pm

I think the opposite has been shown. JJ hasn't shown bottle on the big occasions. JJ is a good outhalf and can have moments of brilliance. The Irish team needs consistency though which he doesn't give. Probably why Carty ruled out as an option also. If he was 21 or 22 and playing the way he is now he would be called up, I've no doubt about it. No point at this stage calling him up.

wirelessdude01 · 08-02-2021 9:40pm

He just hasn't the liathroidi.

The Inbetween is mine · 08-02-2021 9:41pm

He could do a job, no doubt at all.... except there is..
On his day, a fine player, good with ball in hand & kicking.. but when things go wrong...they go very wrong..
It might be a mental block, bad luck, whatever you wish to call it .. but Farrell won't trust him, and that's the end of it

JibJabWibWab · 08-02-2021 9:42pm

Is Simon Zebo Irish?

normanbond · 08-02-2021 10:37pm

If one was to believe these comments it doesn’t add up how Hanrahan managed to be the top points scorer in the Pro14 in 2020.
He’s the form fly half again so far this year.
Burns and the Byrnes are promising but need to be starting more important Pro 14/Heineken Cup matches before they can be considered ahead of Hanrahan.
Andy Farrell’s tenure at the helm has been bleak so far, time to start making a few changes??

sydthebeat · 08-02-2021 10:48pm

normanbond wrote: »

If one was to believe these comments it doesn’t add up how Hanrahan managed to be the top points scorer in the Pro14 in 2020.

The top scorer in the Pro14 is regularly not a test level player....

Do you not know this at all??

wirelessdude01 · 08-02-2021 10:52pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

The top scorer in the Pro14 is regularly not a test level player....

Do you not know this at all??

Reason they are the top scorer is because they aren't required for autumn international window or 6 nations window. No player management requirements either.

JibJabWibWab · 08-02-2021 10:54pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

The top scorer in the Pro14 is regularly not a test level player....

Do you not know this at all??

In the 13/14 season Billy Burns was one of the top scorers in the National League 2, South...

link: belfasttelegraph.co.uk_sport_rugby_ulster-rugby_everything-you-need-to-know-about-ulsters-new-fly-half-billy-burns-37098647

sydthebeat · 08-02-2021 11:10pm

Why are you quoting me to post that?

JibJabWibWab · 08-02-2021 11:15pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

Why are you quoting me to post that?

To agree with your point in a topical and, dare I say, funny way... ?

sydthebeat · 08-02-2021 11:17pm

JibJabWibWab wrote: »

To agree with your point in a topical and, dare I say, funny way... ?

That's a unique sense of humour

JibJabWibWab · 08-02-2021 11:18pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

That's a unique sense of humour

*tip of the hat*

Fredinho · 08-02-2021 11:32pm

Hanrahan is headed out the door at munster again. Why would he get a call up.

Ben Healy is more likely to get a chance at this stage.

phily2002 · 08-02-2021 11:54pm

JJ was top point scorer and also made the top 3 for most missed tackles...

Downlinz · 09-02-2021 12:05am

JJ is in the same tier as Billy Burns and Ross Byrne, all adequate for cover but none of them good enough for the highest international level. He's unfortunate to not have a few caps like the other two but I wouldn't be too upset about it.

Carty is comfortably the best of the stopgaps while we wait for either Joey to recover or H.Byrne / Healy / Crowley / whoever to develop.

Dubinusa · 09-02-2021 6:19am

Jj couldn't get past Keatley, couldn't nail down the starter spot with the Saints and if Carberry was fit, he'd be on the bench.

irishbucsfan · 09-02-2021 7:24am

Downlinz wrote: »

JJ is in the same tier as Billy Burns and Ross Byrne, all adequate for cover but none of them good enough for the highest international level. He's unfortunate to not have a few caps like the other two but I wouldn't be too upset about it.

He's not in the same tier as either. Which is why they're younger and capped.

Mimon · 09-02-2021 8:47am

Downlinz wrote: »

JJ is in the same tier as Billy Burns and Ross Byrne, all adequate for cover but none of them good enough for the highest international level. He's unfortunate to not have a few caps like the other two but I wouldn't be too upset about it.

Carty is comfortably the best of the stopgaps while we wait for either Joey to recover or H.Byrne / Healy / Crowley / whoever to develop.

He had a higher ceiling than Burns or Ross Byrne but never lived up to it. Mentality is a huge part of being able to make it to the top level and he hasn't got it. A few flashes of showing his ability now and again is not enough.

Niallof9 · 09-02-2021 10:26am

Just another case of a mismanaged player and the Irish conservatism shining through. We want details over dancing. Its been like that with so many players throughout the years. Staunton, Murphy, Humphries, Madigan, Zebo, Cronin and i'm sure there's many more i'm leaving out. I mean even Keith Wood would tell you he was in danger sometimes cause of the throwing. Would we excuse that nowadays, i highly doubt it. Irish rugby is a pox at times. Its losing its soul imo.

Its a weird mentality really. I mean look at the Henshaw offload on Sat, how many times have we seen that from an Irish team over the years. Very little. If Carlos Spencer was Irish they would have written him off as flaky. Madigan was similar. and you'll probably see the same narrative with Healy now, even though Corkery looks like he has more spark. People reluctant to even bring Harry into the Irish squad when its clear he just has something, far more than his big bro.

JJ probably doesn't have the mentality but it doesn't help when you still have people looking for ROG like kicks into the corner.

Moving to Northampton was the great mistake. And losing him to them, like losing Zebo was a monumental fup up by Munster and the IRFU. Mostly the IRFU as they set the structure. Most of the blame lies at the feet of the IRFU. Through mismanagement they allowed a World player of the year under 20 nominee slip through their fingers and waste the best years of his career. And people will tell you how great the structures are, blah, blah, blah.

I really feel for Hanrahan, the abuse he gets is unreal. You'd have people willing to forgive Burns for his dog**** performance on Sunday quicker than they would JJ for difficult stuff like kicks from tee. Its madness and sums up Irish rugby.

Losing not one outhalf but two who can do what no other outhalf in Ire can do like here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCYv5b6OYWU is bordering on criminal. It was the exact same ****e with Madigan.

touts · 09-02-2021 10:50am

The picture on the Irish Indo piece today highlights the crisis facing Irish Rugby at No. 10. In the feature on who will replace Leinster's Sexton they have 5 players. 1 from Connacht 1 from Ulster 3 from Leinster. So in effect of the 6 top Irish outhalfs 4 of them are fighting for one starting spot in the Leinster team.

The IRFU did the right thing in moving Carberry to Munster. That his career would stall due to constant injuries was not really foreseeable (no matter the conspiracy theories from certain Munster fans). The IRFU need to do the same again now. They need to rebalance the No. 10s across the four provinces. And the same should be done with other key positions like No. 9 and Hooker.

The best thing David Nucifora could do is insist that, barring injury issues, no player at 2, 9 or 10 gets on an Irish match day subs bench if another player from his province is in the starting 15. That would see the best players themselves pushing for moves around the provinces to ensure they have a chance to make the most of their career AND achieves the best results for both the provinces and the national team.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/sexton-an-ageing-captain-in-decline-succession-plan-at-no-10-must-become-ireland-managements-top-priority-40068095.html

Lost Ormond · 09-02-2021 10:57am

touts wrote: »

The picture on the Irish Indo piece today highlights the crisis facing Irish Rugby at No. 10. In the feature on who will replace Leinster's Sexton they have 5 players. 1 from Connacht 1 from Ulster 3 from Leinster. So in effect of the 6 top Irish outhalfs 4 of them are fighting for one starting spot in the Leinster team.

The IRFU did the right thing in moving Carberry to Munster. That his career would stall due to constant injuries was not really foreseeable (no matter the conspiracy theories from certain Munster fans). The IRFU need to do the same again now. They need to rebalance the No. 10s across the four provinces. And the same should be done with other key positions like No. 9 and Hooker.

The best thing David Nucifora could do is insist that, barring injury issues, no player at 2, 9 or 10 gets on an Irish match day subs bench if another player from his province is in the starting 15. That would see the best players themselves pushing for moves around the provinces to ensure they have a chance to make the most of their career AND achieves the best results for both the provinces and the national team.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/sexton-an-ageing-captain-in-decline-succession-plan-at-no-10-must-become-ireland-managements-top-priority-40068095.html

IRFU dont have to do that at all for Munster. Munster have Ben Healy, Jack Crowley and Jake Flannery in the academy all capable of playing 10. They are trusting them
Where were these supposed conspiracy theories about Carbery?
Not sure any moves should be made at 9/hooker. What would you do/who would you move.
The irish coaching team wont/cant just not pick someone as sub hooker/scrum half or out half if the starter is from their province.

aloooof · 09-02-2021 11:25am

Niallof9 wrote: »

Moving to Northampton was the great mistake. And losing him to them, like losing Zebo was a monumental fup up by Munster and the IRFU. Mostly the IRFU as they set the structure. Most of the blame lies at the feet of the IRFU. Through mismanagement they allowed a World player of the year under 20 nominee slip through their fingers and waste the best years of his career. And people will tell you how great the structures are, blah, blah, blah.

He was 22-24 when he join Northampton, I believe. That's not the best years of his career. Equally, he couldn't force his way past Stephen Myler when there.

JJ has had ample opportunities with Munster in the last 4 seasons since he returned (the actual best years of his career). He's had some really good performances, but unfortunately has never quite pushed on as much as we would have hoped, given his early promise. At some point, he has to take responsibility for that; it can't all be pinned on the IRFU.

As for losing Zebo being a monumental fup up; you can't force players to stay. Zebo always said he wanted to play in France at some point. Again, you can't pin that on the IRFU.

kksaints · 09-02-2021 11:31am

Is Joey Carbery badly injured again? I haven't heard him playing in a while.

aloooof · 09-02-2021 11:34am

kksaints wrote: »

Is Joey Carbery badly injured again? I haven't heard him playing in a while.

He's been out since early 2020. No timeframe has been put on his return, but he has been pictured kicking a ball in training of late, I think.

Niallof9 · 09-02-2021 11:38am

aloooof wrote: »

He was 22-24 when he join Northampton, I believe. That's not the best years of his career. Equally, he couldn't force his way past Stephen Myler when there.

JJ has had ample opportunities with Munster in the last 4 seasons since he returned (the actual best years of his career). He's had some really good performances, but unfortunately has never quite pushed on as much as we would have hoped, given his early promise. At some point, he has to take responsibility for that; it can't all be pinned on the IRFU.

As for losing Zebo being a monumental fup up; you can't force players to stay. Zebo always said he wanted to play in France at some point. Again, you can't pin that on the IRFU.

Yeah you can. They clearly lowballed him and thought of him unworthy of special status. I'd imagine something similar happened with JJ, which is more understandable. Recently enough we've seen Hickey moving to OSpreys. Personally i hope it happens more. As the only way we'll learn is losing our best prospects. The only players who ever called the bluff were Zebo, JJ and Sexton.

And some people are saying he's too old at 28. so what, his only window was from age 25-28. Thats clearly nonsense.

Yeah as i said clearly some of it is on JJ. But he's getting dogs abuse as well.

I'd imagine we'd have seen the same ****e with Joey if head had a clear run. Conservative rugby people in Ireland will always prefer one type of outhalf. Sexton was a clear freak so i'm not counting him even though early on he suffered similar disparagement and the like in comparison with ROG. Unfortunately though my old SCT teammate is on his last legs.

Joey seemed to have the best balance but i'd imagine he would have got stick as well.

JJ was a great prospect and Munster and the IRFU, as well as the player himself played a part in the mess his career has become.

awec · 09-02-2021 12:05pm

You can't say JJ Hanrahan was mismanaged or suffered from conservatism.

He made a mistake leaving Munster. He was not great at Northampton. Since coming back to Munster he has had more chances than he deserves to be honest, Munster will win nothing with him playing at 10.

He is a decent Pro14 player and that's it.

Squidgy Black · 09-02-2021 12:14pm

Feels like it was only a few weeks ago that Munster fans were calling for Healy to start over JJ, and saying that it was clear that JJ was too much of a liability for Champions cup games.

Crazy how a couple of decent performances in the pro14 can swing people's perspectives.

09-02-2021 12:23pm

awec wrote: »

You can't say JJ Hanrahan was mismanaged or suffered from conservatism.

He made a mistake leaving Munster. He was not great at Northampton. Since coming back to Munster he has had more chances than he deserves to be honest, Munster will win nothing with him playing at 10.

He is a decent Pro14 player and that's it.

And that should be the end of the argument. I'm a season ticket holder and seen enough of Hanrahan to declare he is too erratic to be considered for international duty. There is a bit of the maverick in him, however he can't string a series of consistent performances together. Carbery far more talented and able to exert greater influence in games, without being hampered by injuries he would be an heir apparent to the faltering Sexton. And Ben Healy has shot past Hanrahan in the hierarchy within the past year, which speaks volumes. JJ simply "disappears" on the field too often, his international fate is effectively sealed.

09-02-2021 12:24pm

It is kinda curious he's never picked up an Irish cap, but I don't think you get to his stage of career through a few different coaches without being capped by any accident. He can be really really good on his day but I think his form can be as erratic anything.

I heard from a man in the pub that he left Munster on fairly bad terms with Foley but could be a load of nonsense, but that move didn't work out for him at all, suffered a bad injury over there as well which didn't help.

Former Former Former · 09-02-2021 12:27pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And Ben Healy has shot past Hanrahan in the hierarchy within the past year.

In what way??

aloooof · 09-02-2021 12:33pm

Daisy Early Hive wrote: »

It is kinda curious he's never picked up an Irish cap, but I don't think you get to his stage of career through a few different coaches without being capped by any accident. He can be really really good on his day but I think his form can be as erratic anything.

I heard from a man in the pub that he left Munster on fairly bad terms with Foley but could be a load of nonsense, but that move didn't work out for him at all, suffered a bad injury over there as well which didn't help.

Can't say anything about what terms he was on with Foley, but I remember reading an article at the time that, under Penny, JJ used to get just a shade under 50% of the starts at 10 but under Foley, Keatley was getting 80% of the starts. Hard to blame him for looking for a move in that situation.

Niallof9 · 09-02-2021 1:02pm

Yeah nobody is saying JJ is the answer. He does mix hot and cold too often. I just think people writing him off and saying he's too old are being very harsh. Maybe a swap with Carty coming south? Being the Munster 10 is huge pressure.

Compare JJ's stats with Ross Byrnes.

JJ has something like 27 defenders beaten, 18 try assists in 2020.

Sometimes reality isn't reflected in fans demands. Misses a few kicks and a drop goal, he's a liability.

Personally i'd take an outhalf who can make something happen over a plodding workhorse all day. Plus RB plays behind one of the best packs in the WOrld. The Munster team is nowhere close to matching Leinster atm.

He's missed the boat so i'm not really arguing for him to be brought in or anything. The masses have spoken. Just like they did with Madigan.

To be Irish outhalf you have to be all things to all men at times.

Maybe JJ would be better off lowering the pressure at Connacht. Bring Carty south see if he's up to a higher level.

thomond2006 · 09-02-2021 1:12pm

JJ and Carty swapping teams.

ScissorPaperRock · 09-02-2021 1:13pm

Well if he is Irish why doesn't he just show everyone his birth cert?

y0ssar1an22 · 09-02-2021 1:19pm

Jofspring wrote: »

I think the opposite has been shown. JJ hasn't shown bottle on the big occasions. JJ is a good outhalf and can have moments of brilliance. The Irish team needs consistency though which he doesn't give. Probably why Carty ruled out as an option also. If he was 21 or 22 and playing the way he is now he would be called up, I've no doubt about it. No point at this stage calling him up.

i hope your not advocating for BB to be involved ever again?

cos thats a wet blanket that will fold as easily as you like

Lost Ormond · 09-02-2021 1:34pm

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

i hope your not advocating for BB to be involved ever again?

cos thats a wet blanket that will fold as easily as you like

If we were to get rid of every player like that we'd be getting new caps every single game.
Would you have said same about Sexton or O Gara after some of their early games. Ross Byrnes had some poor games in Twickenham so we discard him on basis of that?

Former Former Former · 09-02-2021 2:00pm

Niallof9 wrote: »

Yeah nobody is saying JJ is the answer. He does mix hot and cold too often. I just think people writing him off and saying he's too old are being very harsh. Maybe a swap with Carty coming south? Being the Munster 10 is huge pressure.

Compare JJ's stats with Ross Byrnes.

JJ has something like 27 defenders beaten, 18 try assists in 2020.

Sometimes reality isn't reflected in fans demands. Misses a few kicks and a drop goal, he's a liability.

Personally i'd take an outhalf who can make something happen over a plodding workhorse all day. Plus RB plays behind one of the best packs in the WOrld. The Munster team is nowhere close to matching Leinster atm.

He's missed the boat so i'm not really arguing for him to be brought in or anything. The masses have spoken. Just like they did with Madigan.

To be Irish outhalf you have to be all things to all men at times.

Maybe JJ would be better off lowering the pressure at Connacht. Bring Carty south see if he's up to a higher level.

Perhaps not, but it's reflected in coaches' selections. And the recurring theme in JJ's career is not being picked.

The only reason he's currently top dog at Munster is because Carbery is crocked and Bleyendaal retired. I'd imagine Munster would love to sign someone else but it's difficult because IRFU want Joey to get the game time if and when he returns. So they're stuck with JJ not through choice but by default.

Same at his first spell in Munster, unable to get past Ian Keatley, moved to Northampton and couldn't get past Steve Myler. Neither are bad players but neither are great either.

The masses haven't spoken, the three or four people who've coached him at club level have spoken.

Legalfarmer89 · 09-02-2021 2:28pm

Niallof9 wrote: »

Maybe JJ would be better off lowering the pressure at Connacht. Bring Carty south see if he's up to a higher level.

Christ why should Carty have to go to Munster?

I think that he is the player who is unlucky(and Ross Byrne to a lesser extent) in not getting selected for the Ireland squad. JJ is a decent player but it just hasn’t happened for him.

Carty might not suit the Munster style of rugby, bit too maverick for ye😉

Niallof9 · 09-02-2021 2:37pm

Legalfarmer89 wrote: »

Christ why should Carty have to go to Munster?

I think that he is the player who is unlucky(and Ross Byrne to a lesser extent) in not getting selected for the Ireland squad. JJ is a decent player but it just hasn’t happened for him.

Carty might not suit the Munster style of rugby, bit too maverick for ye��

I'm not a Munster fan but lets be honest any Connacht players with real ambition need to move for the sake of their own careers. While its great having local lads play etc they need to test themselves at the top level consistently. I'm on record saying i believe in a total movement of players system.

thomond2006 · 09-02-2021 2:39pm

Niallof9 wrote: »

I'm not a Munster fan but lets be honest any Connacht players with real ambition need to move for the sake of their own careers. While its great having local lads play etc they need to test themselves at the top level consistently. I'm on record saying i believe in a total movement of players system.

Carty isn't going to be a net benefit to Munster versus retaining JJ.

pickarooney · 09-02-2021 2:46pm

Niallof9 wrote: »

Yeah nobody is saying JJ is the answer. He does mix hot and cold too often. I just think people writing him off and saying he's too old are being very harsh. Maybe a swap with Carty coming south? Being the Munster 10 is huge pressure.

Compare JJ's stats with Ross Byrnes.

JJ has something like 27 defenders beaten, 18 try assists in 2020.

Sometimes reality isn't reflected in fans demands. Misses a few kicks and a drop goal, he's a liability.

Personally i'd take an outhalf who can make something happen over a plodding workhorse all day. Plus RB plays behind one of the best packs in the WOrld. The Munster team is nowhere close to matching Leinster atm.

He's missed the boat so i'm not really arguing for him to be brought in or anything. The masses have spoken. Just like they did with Madigan.

To be Irish outhalf you have to be all things to all men at times.

Maybe JJ would be better off lowering the pressure at Connacht. Bring Carty south see if he's up to a higher level.

Madigan has 31 Irish caps and 150 appearances for Leinster. How many more do you think he was really worth?

Niallof9 · 09-02-2021 2:46pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

Carty isn't going to be a net benefit to Munster versus retaining JJ.

Of course not. Munster look well stocked now. Healy and Corkery seem to be the future. Although this wil lraise questions about Carbery going forward.

aloooof · 09-02-2021 2:47pm

Niallof9 wrote: »

Of course not. Munster look well stocked now. Healy and Corkery seem to be the future. Although this wil lraise questions about Carbery going forward.

Crowley?

pickarooney · 09-02-2021 2:49pm

aloooof wrote: »

Crowley?

Colin Corkery, might be 50 but still has the instincts.

normanbond · 09-02-2021 2:56pm

Ireland are heading for an underwhelming 6 nations. Our manager is underperforming as is our no 10. Johnny Sexton was a fantastic 10 but his best years are behind him. He’s no longer grabbing the post match headlines as he rarely finishes games. Sometimes think that recently he goes to ground easily after a heavy tackle and grabs sympathy as he leaves the pitch grumbling in an overt manner.
We need immediate cover for his spot. The Byrnes and Burns? have ability but are not yet starting the big club games on a consistent basis.
Where do we look to for our immediate cover no. 10?
JJ Hanrahan, top club scorer last year and again this years form guy.
.....strange that on that form he’s not even brought into the Irish training camp where he can be pushed further.
Jack Carty? yes he deserves consideration ....

Lost Ormond · 09-02-2021 3:05pm

normanbond wrote: »

Ireland are heading for an underwhelming 6 nations. Our manager is underperforming as is our no 10. Johnny Sexton was a fantastic 10 but his best years are behind him. He’s no longer grabbing the post match headlines as he rarely finishes games. Sometimes think that recently he goes to ground easily after a heavy tackle and grabs sympathy as he leaves the pitch grumbling in an overt manner.
We need immediate cover for his spot. The Byrnes and Burns? have ability but are not yet starting the big club games on a consistent basis.
Where do we look to for our immediate cover no. 10?
JJ Hanrahan, top club scorer last year and again this years form guy.
.....strange that on that form he’s not even brought into the Irish training camp where he can be pushed further.
Jack Carty? yes he deserves consideration ....

Our head coach has started uncertainly but you cant do much about that. There isnt alternatives and a change now wont do much.
JJ Hanrahan is top scorer in league because the very best 10s dont play near as much in the league as guys of standard of JJ. Look at the list of top scorers in the league the past few years. JJ isnt the form 10 this season.

Is JJ Hanrahan Irish?

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