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Galway - Light Rail

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Comments

  • #2
    Shn99
    Registered Users Posts: 1,353 ✭✭✭Shn99


    marno21 wrote: »
    City meeting about the latest white elephant distraction for the West of Ireland in the form of light rail for Galway this evening
    April fools isnt for another few months!


  • #3
    Qrt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,644 ✭✭✭Qrt


    I'm not quite sure it'd fall under the "white elephant" banner but I can't imagine it being a raging success either, it'd probably end up like the Midland Metro or Sheffield Supertram


  • #4
    yermanoffthetv
    Registered Users Posts: 625 ✭✭✭yermanoffthetv


    marno21 wrote: »
    If I were them I'd be pushing real hard for BusConnects Galway to be implemented in full and pronto. This is simply a distraction from the real solutions.

    Agreed, forget the tram, its not going to happen. The Van Hool Equicity is practically a tram anyway, if they pushed for that as part of a BRT is would be a much easier sell politically with practically the same benefits.

    ExquiCity24Nobina01_web.jpg


  • #5
    guylikeme
    Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭guylikeme


    Qrt wrote: »
    I'm not quite sure it'd fall under the "white elephant" banner but I can't imagine it being a raging success either, it'd probably end up like the Midland Metro or Sheffield Supertram

    Praytell what was wromg with sheffields attempt? While incomplete it serves the city pretty well. Better than luas anyway


  • #6
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,979 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    guylikeme wrote: »
    Praytell what was wromg with sheffields attempt? While incomplete it serves the city pretty well. Better than luas anyway

    How so? It carries 1/3rd the number of passengers then Luas (12million per year versus 34m for Luas), in a metro population the same as Dublin.


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  • #7
    Qrt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,644 ✭✭✭Qrt


    bk wrote: »
    How so? It carries 1/3rd the number of passengers then Luas (12million per year versus 34m for Luas), in a metro population the same as Dublin.

    That was my exact point. Low ridership.


  • #8
    guylikeme
    Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭guylikeme


    Qrt wrote: »
    That was my exact point. Low ridership.

    I think thats down to the lack of access to ecelsall road, london road in the network itself.

    Sheffield also has a massive bus network and 2 decent interchanges in city and meadowhall accessible by the tram. In fact you can do tram to interchange, train to manc airport and fly.

    Compare to Dublin. At least 2 huge shopping centres nowhere near the network. As for going near the airport with light or heavy rail...

    Yes the numbers are bigger in Dublin. That would be because of overconcentration of offices and in the city centre. Sheffield has some large towns nearby so not all commuting is done around city centre.


  • #9
    riddlinrussell
    Registered Users Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    https://connachttribune.ie/campaigners-hold-out-hope-for-very-light-rail-study-for-galway/

    Looks like the GLUAS group might be pivoting to Very Light Rail, seems like an interesting concept, rapid charging at each end of the line (And presumably at stops) to avoid continuous power infrastructure requirements.

    EDIT: Bit of background on the concept, which is being developed in Coventry

    "The concept of 'Very Light Rail' (VLR) has been developed as a means of delivering a light rail system at a much lower cost and with much reduced construction times than traditional tramways or light rail systems. This will allow for such systems to be rolled out across smaller towns and cities so they can gain benefits of a tram system at a considerably more affordable cost. The system had reportedly been engineered for compatibility with the existing West Midlands Metro mass transit network. It has been envisioned that services upon the network could be operated upon a 'turn up and go' frequency at a typical interval of every three to four minutes, rather than using a timetable.

    The VLR concept uses lightweight vehicles, each typically accommodating 50 passengers; of these 20 will be seated while 30 will have to stand. It has been proposed for these vehicles to eventually be operated autonomously. Guidance is to be primarily achieved from its rails. The vehicle are primarily composed of steel and aluminium, while also incorporating several composite components. The vehicles are to be equipped with batteries; when combined with rapid charging systems, the need for overhead line equipment to be installed throughout the route is dispensed with, resulting in reduced installation costs. Being electrically powered, it produces zero emissions and is therefore an environment-friendly means of transportation.

    A major feature of the system is the track, which is prefabricated. This is relatively lightweight and shallower than traditional tramway track, enabling it to be laid over existing utilities and thus avoiding the need for these to be relocated, requiring less excavation; all of these factors make it quicker and cheaper to install. If required, the track can be dismantled and reused at other locations, being held together by a series of clips; this feature has also been promoted for ease of maintenance. The track is seated upon slabs, the materials of which can comprise a high-strength foam core with a recycled plastic coating."


  • #10
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    riddlinrussell wrote: »
    https://connachttribune.ie/campaigners-hold-out-hope-for-very-light-rail-study-for-galway/

    Looks like the GLUAS group might be pivoting to Very Light Rail, seems like an interesting concept, rapid charging at each end of the line (And presumably at stops) to avoid continuous power infrastructure requirements.

    EDIT: Bit of background on the concept, which is being developed in Coventry

    "The concept of 'Very Light Rail' (VLR) has been developed as a means of delivering a light rail system at a much lower cost and with much reduced construction times than traditional tramways or light rail systems. This will allow for such systems to be rolled out across smaller towns and cities so they can gain benefits of a tram system at a considerably more affordable cost. The system had reportedly been engineered for compatibility with the existing West Midlands Metro mass transit network. It has been envisioned that services upon the network could be operated upon a 'turn up and go' frequency at a typical interval of every three to four minutes, rather than using a timetable.

    The VLR concept uses lightweight vehicles, each typically accommodating 50 passengers; of these 20 will be seated while 30 will have to stand. It has been proposed for these vehicles to eventually be operated autonomously. Guidance is to be primarily achieved from its rails. The vehicle are primarily composed of steel and aluminium, while also incorporating several composite components. The vehicles are to be equipped with batteries; when combined with rapid charging systems, the need for overhead line equipment to be installed throughout the route is dispensed with, resulting in reduced installation costs. Being electrically powered, it produces zero emissions and is therefore an environment-friendly means of transportation.

    A major feature of the system is the track, which is prefabricated. This is relatively lightweight and shallower than traditional tramway track, enabling it to be laid over existing utilities and thus avoiding the need for these to be relocated, requiring less excavation; all of these factors make it quicker and cheaper to install. If required, the track can be dismantled and reused at other locations, being held together by a series of clips; this feature has also been promoted for ease of maintenance. The track is seated upon slabs, the materials of which can comprise a high-strength foam core with a recycled plastic coating."

    I think this is dead before it even starts and here's why

    1. The idea of a feasibility study into light rail has already been quashed. This is the same thing with a different name. We can argue semantics but its a system that will cost hundreds of millions and require digging up the streets....its the same thing.

    2. These are smaller than double decker buses, more expensive and require significant infrastructure.

    3. Galway is getting the double decker electric buses shortly so the environmental benefit argument is already dead.

    4. Galway is not dense enough for this. Communities have been struggling to get bus routes extended for years due to too low a density as it is.

    That being said, I do love that these are designed to be autonomous and require no driver, thereby eliminating one of the biggest problems in a modern public transport system


  • #11
    donvito99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    I like the engineering but I think this is just too compromised:

    - Although expensive, digging up utilities and shoring up the running way reduces maintenance in the long run.

    - The ride quality with light vehicles and pre-fab rails + trackbed would likely be fairly crap.

    - The whole point of light rail (excluding the American, development oriented projects) is to transport more people than buses and less people than metro, heavy rail. This is just an inflexible, expensive bus, no?

    I agree with the original post in this thread - Galway needs a Bus Connects and a park and ride on the existing railway (as well as a bit of density and planning as suggested above) before it needs light rail.


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  • #12
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,036 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    I don't see the advantage of that over articulated buses (apart from trying to trick people into thinking its something that it's not). Articulated buses are a proven off-the-shelf product with multiple suppliers, would carry more people and require less infrastructural changes.


  • #13
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,862 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    What would the advantage be of rubber wheeled vehicles - all other things being equal?


  • #14
    donvito99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    What would the advantage be of rubber wheeled vehicles - all other things being equal?

    Turning circle, noise, better adhesion, more severe gradients.


  • #15
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,862 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    donvito99 wrote: »
    Turning circle, noise, better adhesion, more severe gradients.

    Surely rubber is quieter than steel. Turning circle - how would that be? I am not talking of bendy buses. Galway - gradients?

    Rubber wheels are easier to divert - should the need arise.


  • #16
    donvito99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Surely rubber is quieter than steel. Turning circle - how would that be? I am not talking of bendy buses. Galway - gradients?

    Rubber wheels are easier to divert - should the need arise.

    That's my point, they are the traditional advantages of the Bombardier type guided, rubber tyred trams in limited use in France, Colombia etc.


  • #17
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,979 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    50 passengers!

    That is about the capacity of a single decker bus. Double deckers are almost double that, around 90 people. And Galway is getting double deckers and likely EV ones in a few years.

    This doesn’t make any sense. Maybe a BRT like the Glider in Belfast but EV would be an option.


  • #18
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    This Galway Luas idea seems to be more of a vanity project.

    Transport strategies for both Galway and Limerick have concluded that these cities are best served by the bus. There isn't a route with the required density to merit a light rail system in either city.

    Cork has potential for one light rail route but it's dependent on significant dense development along the planned route.


  • #19
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,979 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Yes, it is a bit mad. Galway population 75,529 or about 100,000 for the whole county. Belfast on the other hand has a Metro population of 671,000 and yet doesn't even have a tram, instead two BRT routes!

    Even for Cork I flip-flop between it being big enough for Luas or if BRT on the same route would be sufficient. As marno says if they build densely along the route it might just about justify it, but it is borderline.

    And I know what people might say, that it is good to shot for the stars, but I feel this sort of mentality is quiet damaging, as it distracts from the less sexy, but likely more reasonable and significant improvements that could be made to bus services, etc.


  • #20
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    bk wrote: »
    And I know what people might say, that it is good to shot for the stars, but I feel this sort of mentality is quiet damaging, as it distracts from the less sexy, but likely more reasonable and significant improvements that could be made to bus services, etc.

    Yeah some farcical stuff going on in Galway city & county. You have the GLUAS crowd in the city and the WRC folks in the county both clamoring for hundreds of millions to be spent on wasteful projects that will be underused to such an extent as to warrant closure within a few years of opening, meanwhile the main Dublin to Galway line is crying out for double tracking and upgrading. Should be pushing to get that main line under a 90 min journey time (double tracking, electrification, request only stops, etc etc)


  • #21
    donvito99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Yeah some farcical stuff going on in Galway city & county. You have the GLUAS crowd in the city and the WRC folks in the county both clamoring for hundreds of millions to be spent on wasteful projects that will be underused to such an extent as to warrant closure within a few years of opening, meanwhile the main Dublin to Galway line is crying out for double tracking and upgrading. Should be pushing to get that main line under a 90 min journey time (double tracking, electrification, request only stops, etc etc)

    All agreed, however request only stops doesn't make much sense on a mainline.


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  • #22
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    donvito99 wrote: »
    All agreed, however request only stops doesn't make much sense on a mainline.

    True, but politically, it'll be difficult to close any stations on a mainline too.

    Request stops are, politically speaking, the lesser of two evils


  • #23
    donvito99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    Deleted User wrote: »
    True, but politically, it'll be difficult to close any stations on a mainline too.

    Request stops are, politically speaking, the lesser of two evils

    Well with doubletracking the likes of Attymon or Woodlawn could be served at the same frequency and other stations at an increased frequency. And higher line speeds to boot.

    I wonder what the cost per km would be of doubletracking Ceannt - Portarlington relative to Gluas?


  • #24
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,533 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    I don't think there's good cost-benefit for a Galway Luas.

    The only thing that might make me consider it is that I don't think any bus route/BRT is going to get the same kind of priority routing (even if initially, it will be watered down until it's just part of normal traffic). As a result, people just won't use it, it won't be fast and reliable.

    Galway is so car-focused and there are such negative views towards buses that I'm not sure what it would take for a bus route to be successful. A tram with dedicated infrastructure and routing has a much better chance, but whether it's worth it or not I don't know.


  • #25
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,862 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Amirani wrote: »
    I don't think there's good cost-benefit for a Galway Luas.

    The only thing that might make me consider it is that I don't think any bus route/BRT is going to get the same kind of priority routing (even if initially, it will be watered down until it's just part of normal traffic). As a result, people just won't use it, it won't be fast and reliable.

    Galway is so car-focused and there are such negative views towards buses that I'm not sure what it would take for a bus route to be successful. A tram with dedicated infrastructure and routing has a much better chance, but whether it's worth it or not I don't know.

    The truth is Luas is 'sexy' and shiny new, and will be extremely popular. Combine it with P&R and more restrictive parking in the city centre and it will be a success. Well, as far as ridership if not Return on Investment basis.


  • #26
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    The truth is Luas is 'sexy' and shiny new, and will be extremely popular. Combine it with P&R and more restrictive parking in the city centre and it will be a success. Well, as far as ridership if not Return on Investment basis.

    P&R and the removal of most if not all on street parking is already happening under the GTS

    As for sexy, well, thats in the eye of the beholder ;)


  • #27
    Geuze
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,717 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Deleted User wrote: »
    True, but politically, it'll be difficult to close any stations on a mainline too.

    Request stops are, politically speaking, the lesser of two evils


    If some or much of the GY to Portarlington route was doubled, could there then be a mix of IC and regional trains?

    IC might have stops GY-Athenry-Ballinsloe-Athlone-Tullamore-Port-Dublin?

    And then let smaller trains serve all stations?

    That means all stations can stay open, and most journeys get faster?


  • #28
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Anything is possible I guess. Either way it'll be years before we see anything happening


  • #29
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,753 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    bk wrote: »
    Yes, it is a bit mad. Galway population 75,529 or about 100,000 for the whole county. Belfast on the other hand has a Metro population of 671,000 and yet doesn't even have a tram, instead two BRT routes!

    Belfast is an extremely poor example of public transport provision.
    bk wrote: »
    Even for Cork I flip-flop between it being big enough for Luas or if BRT on the same route would be sufficient. As marno says if they build densely along the route it might just about justify it, but it is borderline.

    What is this based on? Cork is one of the largest cities in the EU without a light rail of some sort.


  • #30
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Cork is one of the largest cities in the EU without a light rail of some sort.

    How conducive to light rail would Corks geography be? I'm not very familiar with the city but I do recall there be some steep streets/roads as you move out of the city center


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  • #31
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,753 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Deleted User wrote: »
    How conducive to light rail would Corks geography be? I'm not very familiar with the city but I do recall there be some steep streets/roads as you move out of the city center

    Only the northside


  • #32
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,979 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Belfast is an extremely poor example of public transport provision.

    I agree, but it doesn't make it any more ridiculous suggestion that Galway with a population of just 75k needs a Luas. In most of Europe it wouldn't even be a city, just a large town.
    cgcsb wrote: »
    What is this based on? Cork is one of the largest cities in the EU without a light rail of some sort.

    What? There are loads of much larger EU cities without trams.

    Munster in Germany jumps to mind, city population 300k, metro 1 million (Cork is 124k city, 300k Metro), basically 3 times larger then Cork and it has no trams or U-Bahn or S-Bahn.

    I note you specified EU cities, thus now leaving out the UK which has many much larger cities with no trams.

    Of course, many small European cities do have trams for historical reasons, going back more then 100 years. Most pre-dated buses of course and it was the only option at the time. Cork once did, as did Munster in Germany.

    That doesn't mean it makes sense to build new modern light rail lines in every city today. Not when we already haves buses and we have new options like EV buses and BRT's.

    As a Corkonian I'm not fundamentally against the idea of a Luas line in Cork, but I do think that line is pretty borderline and a high quality BRT would likely do fine instead too, but sure if Dublin wants to drop a billion on Cork for CLUAS, then I won't complain.

    What I would complain about is if we don't get Cork BusConnects too. Buses in Cork are dreadful, bringing them up to the same level of quality and frequency as Dublin has today (never mind after Dublin's Busconnect) would be a revolution in public transport for Cork.

    I suppose that is where my fear is. That we would just get the money for a single Luas line that becomes a white elephant and then there is no money left over for the 90% of the rest of the city served by very poor bus services.

    Grand if we get both Bus Connects Cork and CLuas, but a single Luas line isn't going to fix the fundamental issues in public transport in Cork. Even talking about Luas in Cork feels like putting the cart before the horse, a single glitzy project before fixing the serious problems with most of the buses in the city.
    Deleted User wrote:
    How conducive to light rail would Corks geography be? I'm not very familiar with the city but I do recall there be some steep streets/roads as you move out of the city center

    Very poor. Lots of hells and tiny, narrow streets everywhere, even much smaller and tighter then Dublins. Then you have the city center which is an island and all very prone to flooding.

    There is room for one good Luas line and the route does make sense given where population growth in the city is likely to be. But there isn't really many options for routes beyond that and serving the rest of the city and that is where my concern mostly stems from.


  • #33
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,753 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    bk wrote: »
    Munster in Germany jumps to mind, city population 300k, metro 1 million (Cork is 124k city, 300k Metro), basically 3 times larger then Cork and it has no trams or U-Bahn or S-Bahn.

    Munster is exceptional, the largest German City without some S-bahn U-bahn or strassen bahn. It's also quite a hot topic locally about how poor PT is.
    bk wrote: »
    I note you specified EU cities, thus now leaving out the UK which has many much larger cities with no trams.

    Yup, UK is a $h!t show, shouldn't be used for comparisons.
    bk wrote: »
    As a Corkonian I'm not fundamentally against the idea of a Luas line in Cork, but I do think that line is pretty borderline and a high quality BRT would likely do fine instead too, but sure if Dublin wants to drop a billion on Cork for CLUAS, then I won't complain.

    What I would complain about is if we don't get Cork BusConnects too. Buses in Cork are dreadful, bringing them up to the same level of quality and frequency as Dublin has today (never mind after Dublin's Busconnect) would be a revolution in public transport for Cork.

    I suppose that is where my fear is. That we would just get the money for a single Luas line that becomes a white elephant and then there is no money left over for the 90% of the rest of the city served by very poor bus services.

    Grand if we get both Bus Connects Cork and CLuas, but a single Luas line isn't going to fix the fundamental issues in public transport in Cork. Even talking about Luas in Cork feels like putting the cart before the horse, a single glitzy project before fixing the serious problems with most of the buses in the city.

    There's plans for BusConnects also.


  • #34
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    Galway has to be one of the worst planned cities in Europe even compared to other cities in Ireland like Cork, Dublin and Limerick it is awful. The density is extremely poor and it feels likr most of the suburbs are rural. This results in it's infamous traffic problems. People should not be commuting to a small city like Galway.


  • #35
    ohographite
    Registered Users Posts: 312 ✭✭ohographite


    I know that light rail vehicles typically last longer than buses. I do not know if the proposed Very Light Rail vehicles would last significantly longer than buses, but if they would last longer, they would need to be replaced less frequently than a bus would, and that would be one advantage they would have over buses. I do not know if they would last longer or not though.


  • #36
    MyLove4Satan
    Registered Users Posts: 326 ✭✭MyLove4Satan


    When I saw that Coventry proposal my first instinct was 'how very British'. Galway does not need a tram system and if if did a Tomorrows World item like that would not be it.


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  • #37
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,862 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    MyLove4Satan wrote: »
    When I saw that Coventry proposal my first instinct was 'how very British'. Galway does not need a tram system and if if did a Tomorrows World item like that would not be it.

    If it could be done for €7 million per Km, 20 km would be €140 million which would do Knocknacarra to Douiska and out to Claregalway. With P&R at Claregalway, and Knocknacarra, or nearby, then there would be a good level of modal shift.


  • #38
    MyLove4Satan
    Registered Users Posts: 326 ✭✭MyLove4Satan


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    If it could be done for €7 million per Km, 20 km would be €140 million which would do Knocknacarra to Douiska and out to Claregalway. With P&R at Claregalway, and Knocknacarra, or nearby, then there would be a good level of modal shift.


    I am sure it world, but there something 'on the cheap' about this system.



    Personally I think the orientation of Galway's entire transport network is wrong. There is an over emphasis on An Lar when the commuting patterns are kind of sideways away from the city centre between the suburbs and the industrial estates.

    I think the absolute number one transport issue in Galway now is the commuter rail project. All focus should be on that as the main game in town for now. As that would be the beginning of an actual public transport focal point from which to develop everything around.


  • #39
    riddlinrussell
    Registered Users Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    https://connachttribune.ie/transport-minister-commits-to-light-rail-study-for-galway/

    Looks like that study is happening anyway, as part of the Galway Transport Strategy review next year... Tribune uses the VLR image for it, might not mean anything but you never know. Hopefully study just tells them to improve commuter rail and get busconnects done....


  • #40
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,862 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    MyLove4Satan wrote: »
    I am sure it world, but there something 'on the cheap' about this system.



    Personally I think the orientation of Galway's entire transport network is wrong. There is an over emphasis on An Lar when the commuting patterns are kind of sideways away from the city centre between the suburbs and the industrial estates.

    I think the absolute number one transport issue in Galway now is the commuter rail project. All focus should be on that as the main game in town for now. As that would be the beginning of an actual public transport focal point from which to develop everything around.

    Probably is cheap, but then, that is the point. Assuming lightweight buses is part of the design brief, and that light track formation is also part of the brief, then that should be OK.

    However, would a rubber based BRT system not be much the same idea, with better flexibility?

    On the Galway layout, I would see a route going along the N6, from the Coolagh or Martin Roundabout to the Headford Road, and accross the QCBridge into Newcastle and onto Knocknacarra. A spur out to the Tuam Road as far as Claregalway, or at least as far as a P&R out the road, and also into Eyre Sq.

    [This is just a sharp crayon version]


  • #41
    PatrickSmithUS
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 263 ✭✭PatrickSmithUS


    Is this for real? There is zero need for light rail anywhere in Ireland outside of the M50.


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  • #42
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,862 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    PatrickSmithUS wrote: »
    Is this for real? There is zero need for light rail anywhere in Ireland outside of the M50.

    If the light rail is cheap enough, and will convert car users to use it, and reduces congestion, then that is need enough.

    It is a lot cheaper than the proposed bypass which will not reduce congestion, and will increase car use. Also the bypass will not be completed in a decade.


  • #43
    timmyntc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,113 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Probably is cheap, but then, that is the point. Assuming lightweight buses is part of the design brief, and that light track formation is also part of the brief, then that should be OK.

    However, would a rubber based BRT system not be much the same idea, with better flexibility?

    On the Galway layout, I would see a route going along the N6, from the Coolagh or Martin Roundabout to the Headford Road, and accross the QCBridge into Newcastle and onto Knocknacarra. A spur out to the Tuam Road as far as Claregalway, or at least as far as a P&R out the road, and also into Eyre Sq.

    [This is just a sharp crayon version]

    Unfortunately it seems those in charge dont share the same ideas.
    He said the planned Cross-City Link bus route – which runs from University Road, over Salmon Weir Bridge, Francis Street and Eglinton Street to Eyre Square, Forster Street, College Road to the Dublin Road – would be the “obvious” one to be upgraded to light rail.

    In 30 years time they will still be scratching their heads wondering why the traffic to parkmore is so bad - driving from knocknacarra to parkmore will always be quicker than a zig-zagging light rail route through eyre sq.


  • #44
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,862 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    timmyntc wrote: »
    Unfortunately it seems those in charge dont share the same ideas.


    In 30 years time they will still be scratching their heads wondering why the traffic to parkmore is so bad - driving from knocknacarra to parkmore will always be quicker than a zig-zagging light rail route through eyre sq.

    Bothar na dTreabh has enough space for the tracks either side except for the junctions. It would allow full speed over those sections, while city centre running would not.


  • #45
    timmyntc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,113 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Bothar na dTreabh has enough space for the tracks either side except for the junctions. It would allow full speed over those sections, while city centre running would not.

    I fully agree with you on that - bus lanes (or light rail) along BnaT would fix most of the city traffic. Point is that the govt dont see it that way - they'll end up with all this city center transport but all the jobs outside the city (unless the city density issue is fixed in the next 30 years)


  • #46
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Bothar na dTreabh has enough space for the tracks either side except for the junctions. It would allow full speed over those sections, while city centre running would not.

    There's a reason there isnt even a bus route along your proposed route, nobody lives there. Here's something I put on the M6 thread that answers this proposal
    Deleted User wrote: »
    To route buses over the QCB would mean avoiding the city center. Why would you run a bus route that avoids the place where 30% of the population works? Here's the current network of routes

    543525.jpg

    The proposed bus routes as part of the GTS are laid out below. You'll note the QCB is not used, neither is the rest of the N6 as nobody lives or works there.

    543526.jpg


  • #47
    timmyntc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,113 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Deleted User wrote: »
    There's a reason there isnt even a bus route along your proposed route, nobody lives there. Here's something I put on the M6 thread that answers this proposal

    This is the kind of narrow-minded thinking that has Galway city buses as poor as they are.

    People want to go from West of the corrib to Ballybrit/Parkmore
    People want to go from East of the corrib to NUIG

    Yet there are no direct buses that do this. The result is that the bus service is so slow as to be worthless, and instead people drive.
    If you could stay in your own car, listen to your own music, and still get to work quicker than the bus - why wouldnt you?

    That is the issue that needs addresses by Galway pt


  • #48
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,753 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    PatrickSmithUS wrote: »
    Is this for real? There is zero need for light rail anywhere in Ireland outside of the M50.

    Detailed design of the Cork Luas is underway though. Dublin's Luas and the proposed metrolink have significant sections outside the M50. So clearly that's not an accurate rule of thumb.


  • #49
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,753 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    What progress has been made on the city centre bus corridor? seems a simple project, a few signs and new road markings.


  • #50
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    timmyntc wrote: »
    This is the kind of narrow-minded thinking that has Galway city buses as poor as they are.

    People want to go from West of the corrib to Ballybrit/Parkmore
    People want to go from East of the corrib to NUIG

    Yet there are no direct buses that do this. The result is that the bus service is so slow as to be worthless, and instead people drive.
    If you could stay in your own car, listen to your own music, and still get to work quicker than the bus - why wouldnt you?

    That is the issue that needs addresses by Galway pt

    Have a read of the GTS

    In the meantime, all your points are already addressed on this page of the M6 ring road thread
    cgcsb wrote: »
    What progress has been made on the city centre bus corridor? seems a simple project, a few signs and new road markings.

    This won't go ahead until the pedestrian bridge is built at the Cathedral. Construction due to start next year last I heard. Once that bridge is done, the rest will be implemented as they need to remove one of the footpaths on the Salmon Weir bridge to widen the lanes. They are leaving the path facing the weir as that is a protected view


  • #51
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,753 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Have a read of the GTS

    In the meantime, all your points are already addressed on this page of the M6 ring road thread



    This won't go ahead until the pedestrian bridge is built at the Cathedral. Construction due to start next year last I heard. Once that bridge is done, the rest will be implemented as they need to remove one of the footpaths on the Salmon Weir bridge to widen the lanes. They are leaving the path facing the weir as that is a protected view

    You seem well informed. Is there a website or document with at least a scrap of information about the overall busconnects galway project similar to what there is for the Dublin project and what's being developed for the Cork project?

    I see that there's consultation on the Dublin Road and City Centre corridors but there's no overall document/website to tell us things like:
    How many corridors are there, where will they go, what priority measures are proposed etc.

    I note this project is being spearheaded by the local City Council rather than the NTA so I'm not sure I have any faith in delivery at this point. Say what you will about the NTA but they'll get things done eventually. Councils, especially provincial councils, only seem to go backwards when it comes to progress.


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