Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII Read OP For Mod Warnings

Penfailed · 06-02-2021 01:03PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

It’s the equivalent of suggesting posters want to be barricaded into their homes and handed rations in the letter box by the army.

Which is a scenario I think some want to happen

You think wrong.

There was actually one poster recently who wanted everything opened, wanted social distancing scrapped and wanted people to throw away their masks. If that's not 'let 'er rip' talk, I don't know what is.

ujjjjjjjjj · 06-02-2021 01:03PM

Graham wrote: »

are you quoting someone or posting an opinion?

Just imagining a future quote from the Minster of adding up at future budgets. Of course everything may be fine and the de man who lent us da money might forget......:)

FintanMcluskey · 06-02-2021 01:03PM

Graham wrote: »

I never cease to be amazed at the vividness of your imagination when it comes to guessing what it is you think people want.

I don't think half of it is anywhere near accurate but impressive none the less.

Ironically Graham, it was sarcasm, directed at those who suggest posters questioning the cost effectiveness of business closures and stay home orders, want to let it rip.

Boggles · 06-02-2021 01:06PM

Captain_Crash wrote: »

To be fair here, hospitals are stretched every year. It’s nothing new at all and if it wasn’t covid it would be something else!

Really?

When was the last year in a 6 week period that over 5500 people needed hospitalization for the same disease?

The pandemic denial has reached peak frenzy.

Neagra · 06-02-2021 01:07PM

Graham wrote: »

I think we'll see the exact opposite, in no small part because we're not trying to scrimp our way out of it. Time will tell.

i hope you are right and i am wrong
but after speaking to people i know and respect who work in banking, insurance and accountancy we all agree that when covid pup and wage subsidy programs end which they must the economic fallout is going to be harsh.
you will be taking billions out of the economy that is not going not be replaced.
the billions borrowed will need to be repaid by increasing tax - that will also contract the economy.

many people are hoping the demand built up by the world economies being closed will drive growth and that will happen but not to the scale to get our economy out of recession.

the reality is many in the government here are afraid of the economy opening fully because it is only people will see the harsh realities that await us.

Boggles · 06-02-2021 01:07PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

It’s the equivalent of suggesting posters want to be barricaded into their homes and handed rations in the letter box by the army.

Which is a scenario I think some want to happen

To be fair Fintan you have stated multiple times you locked yourself up for the summer.

Are you one of those people?

walus · 06-02-2021 01:10PM

ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »

Sure with negative interest rates it is actually a legitimate business opportunity for the state to borrow as much as possible.....borrow borrow borrow ��

And sure even if things change we can adopt the strategy of previous governments and ' we hope that the man who lent us de money forgets'

Does anyone remember austerity ? But sure McWliams thinks money isn't a problem, add a few zeros onto the national debt and sure it is just a few zeros, how can that possibly do any harm. We have reinvented money just like the Irish reinvented the property market where we figured out that you can just keep selling your house to your neighbour for more money, then buy it back and sell it back to him again for more money. That ended well.

One question that I’d like someone to answer is: Will business owners in the lockdown affected industries be able to borrow on those ‘negative interest rates’ terms? After all it is where the money will be needed to lift the economy.

Boggles · 06-02-2021 01:25PM

ujjjjjjjjj wrote: »

add a few zeros onto the national debt and sure it is just a few zeros, how can that possibly do any harm.

Yeah, no one did that.

In reality the cost of servicing our debt has decreased substantially.

But are you suggesting we should have tried austerity at the start of the pandemic?

Because that would have been dangerously stupid in the extreme.

Graham · 06-02-2021 01:25PM

walus wrote: »

One question that I’d like someone to answer is: Will business owners in the lockdown affected industries be able to borrow on those ‘negative interest rates’ terms? After all it is where the money will be needed to lift the economy.

Unfortunately I doubt it.

Personally, I'd like to see something similar to the UK Bounce Back Loan Scheme but I can't see it happening.

walus · 06-02-2021 01:30PM

Graham wrote: »

Unfortunately I doubt it.

Personally, I'd like to see something similar to the UK Bounce Back Loan Scheme but I can't see it happening.

I doubt it too. But that is exactly where this ‘cheap’ money needs to go.

Graham · 06-02-2021 01:32PM

walus wrote: »

I doubt it too. But that is exactly where this ‘cheap’ money needs to go.

Certainly a chunk of it, absolutely.

Unfortunately our equivalent is much smaller and more trouble than it's worth as reflected by the very low uptake.

Windmill100000 · 06-02-2021 01:39PM

Deleted User wrote: »

People die all the time, it’s part of life. We can’t just close the world every time we are worried about our health.

In less than a year, we have half a million unemployed.
Billions of debt added to the our national debt.
Officially entered recession.
Thousands of cancer screenings have not been carried out.

Think we’ve already hit the stage were the solution is worse than the illness.

Since we’ve come this far and we now have vaccines, I’m willing to give them some time to get people vaccinated.

But this needs to happen this year and restrictions should still be eased a lot over the next month or two and completely disappear by winter.

Of course people die. But we are in a pandemic that is affecting huge parts of the world and our restrictions have played a crucial role in suppressing the death toll.

Doing so was always going to come at a price. We all accept that.

I'm glad we locked down and continue to do so. It doesn't mean I dont care about how people have been impacted, although you seem to push tbe agenda that all those for restrictions don't care.

For those that have lost loved ones, for those in hospital battling with covid, the solution is not worse than the illness, not by a long shot.

If you really thought Ireland was not going to lockdown when the vast majority of the world did to protect their citizens you are deluded.

niallo27 · 06-02-2021 01:51PM

Boggles wrote: »

Really?

When was the last year in a 6 week period that over 5500 people needed hospitalization for the same disease?

The pandemic denial has reached peak frenzy.

Are you saying that hospitals were not stretched every winter in this country, we had record numbers on trolleys last winter.

Graham · 06-02-2021 01:52PM

niallo27 wrote: »

Are you saying that hospitals were not stretched every winter in this country, we had record numbers on trolleys last winter.

Are we pretending we don't have thousands of additional patients because of Covid and that somehow this is a normal winter?

Boggles · 06-02-2021 01:53PM

niallo27 wrote: »

Are you saying that hospitals were not stretched every winter in this country, we had record numbers on trolleys last winter.

I asked a very specific question in reply to a specific statement.

When was the last year in a 6 week period that over 5500 people needed hospitalization for the same disease?

Do you want to take a stab at it?

niallo27 · 06-02-2021 01:54PM

Windmill100000 wrote: »

Of course people die. But we are in a pandemic that is affecting huge parts of the world and our restrictions have played a crucial role in suppressing the death toll.

Doing so was always going to come at a price. We all accept that.

I'm glad we locked down and continue to do so. It doesn't mean I dont care about how people have been impacted, although you seem to push tbe agenda that all those for restrictions don't care.

For those that have lost loved ones, for those in hospital battling with covid, the solution is not worse than the illness, not by a long shot.

If you really thought Ireland was not going to lockdown when the vast majority of the world did to protect their citizens you are deluded.

Nobody is saying that, they are questioning why we had the longest and strictest lockdowns in Europe and why we will probably actually I would say certainly have the longest once again coming out of this one.

Boggles · 06-02-2021 01:57PM

niallo27 wrote: »

Nobody is saying that, they are questioning why we had the longest and strictest lockdowns in Europe and why we will probably actually I would say certainly have the longest once again coming out of this one.

Great news, I know it's not appreciated and is actually frowned on around here, but....

Ireland now ‘best in Europe’ at suppressing third wave

Add to that we are one of the best in the EU at the vaccine roll out, particular 2nd dose.

It's not all doom and gloom.

Kids back to school soon, weather improving, hospitalizations rapidly declining.

The contents of the glass can sometimes be looked at in a positive light

niallo27 · 06-02-2021 02:00PM

Boggles wrote: »

I asked a very specific question in reply to a specific statement.

Do you want to take a stab at it?

What's your point though, the poster said hospitals were overstretched every year and you replied "Really". I wonder how many of these 5500 went to hospital with another illness. How can we have an extra 5500 into a system which is usually overstretched and its still coping, I know all elective treatment was stopped but have people stopped getting sick or are they all just not bothering going to hospital anymore.

Boggles · 06-02-2021 02:03PM

niallo27 wrote: »

What's your point though

The point is obvious, the rate and speed this disease hospitalizes people is not a yearly occurrence.

It's called a once in a generation pandemic for a reason.

But you know that, because you are not a simpleton.

niallo27 · 06-02-2021 02:11PM

Boggles wrote: »

The point is obvious, the rate and speed this disease hospitalizes people is not a yearly occurrence.

It's called a once in a generation pandemic for a reason.

But you know that, because you are not a simpleton.

It's seems to have stopped every other illness which is great.

Graham · 06-02-2021 02:12PM

niallo27 wrote: »

How can we have an extra 5500 into a system which is usually overstretched and its still coping

We can't.

I can't think of any hospital system in the world that could take more than double the number of patients in its stride.

Which is one of the reasons we have restrictions.

Hence this thread.

Windmill100000 · 06-02-2021 02:15PM

niallo27 wrote: »

Nobody is saying that, they are questioning why we had the longest and strictest lockdowns in Europe and why we will probably actually I would say certainly have the longest once again coming out of this one.

We had a strict lockdown because no one knew how things were going to play out and suppressing the virus was crucial.

Even when we were hitting thousands of cases per day people were saying it's only flu, life has to go on, time to open up.

I agree we likely will be in this lockdown for a while yet to stop a repeat of what happened in January.

Boggles · 06-02-2021 02:16PM

niallo27 wrote: »

It's seems to have stopped every other illness which is great.

Nope.

It's why NPHET's main remit apart from schools was to keep non Covid health care functioning.

Now the restrictions have eliminated a highly contagious and dangerous disease in the flu.

But with 5500+ hospitalizations in a 6 week period because of Covid with strict public health measures, you get a feel of just how dangerous this disease is.

So anyone dribbling out "shure if it wasn't Covid, it would be something else" is not anchored to anything resembling reality.

niallo27 · 06-02-2021 02:19PM

Graham wrote: »

We can't.

I can't think of any hospital system in the world that could take more than double the number of patients in its stride.

Which is one of the reasons we have restrictions.

Hence this thread.

But we did according to boggles, we had an extra 5500 people into our system and it didn't collapse. I never said we shouldn't have restrictions.

Boggles · 06-02-2021 02:22PM

niallo27 wrote: »

But we did according to boggles, we had an extra 5500 people into our system and it didn't collapse. I never said we shouldn't have restrictions.

It hasn't topped out yet.

5 day average of hospitalizations is 73.

But what do you think slowed the growth?

niallo27 · 06-02-2021 02:22PM

Boggles wrote: »

Nope.

It's why NPHET's main remit apart from schools was to keep non Covid health care functioning.

Now the restrictions have eliminated a highly contagious and dangerous disease in the flu.

But with 5500+ hospitalizations in a 6 week period because of Covid with strict public health measures, you get a feel of just how dangerous this disease is.

So anyone dribbling out "shure if it wasn't Covid, it would be something else" is not anchored to anything resembling reality.

You haven't answered my question on how we can take on an extra 5500 people in the system without collapse. Do you honestly think every one of these people would have not gone to hospital only for covid, I know you don't believe that because your not a simpleton.

Boggles · 06-02-2021 02:24PM

niallo27 wrote: »

You haven't answered my question on how we can take on an extra 5500 people in the system without collapse. Do you honestly think every one of these people would have not gone to hospital only for covid, I know you don't believe that because your not a simpleton.

It's a pretty simple and obvious answer, we implemented harsh restrictions to stop the exponential growth.

I'm a little disappointed this far in I still have to explain that to people.

niallo27 · 06-02-2021 02:29PM

Boggles wrote: »

It's a pretty simple and obvious answer, we implemented harsh restrictions to stop the exponential growth.

I'm a little disappointed this far in I still have to explain that to people.

Are you politican or something, you answer every question with just random waffle. My post said nothing about restrictions.

niallo27 · 06-02-2021 02:31PM

Windmill100000 wrote: »

We had a strict lockdown because no one knew how things were going to play out and suppressing the virus was crucial.

Even when we were hitting thousands of cases per day people were saying it's only flu, life has to go on, time to open up.

I agree we likely will be in this lockdown for a while yet to stop a repeat of what happened in January.

In my opinion having prolonged harsh restrictions just builds up pressure when a lockdown finishs, like Christmas people were crazy for some kind of social interaction, we had the longest lockdown in Europe and when it was lifted we went to being the worst in Europe. Was that just a coincidence.

walus · 06-02-2021 02:34PM

Should the austerity measures be implemented across the board for those in employment and on welfare, as well as the pensioners? We are all in this together after all, right?

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Comments

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII Read OP For Mod Warnings