Charging without a driveway

maddness · 03-02-2021 6:21pm #1

This may be a stupid question but does anyone charge their ev/phev at home without their own driveway. The reason I ask is where I live we have parking spaces outside but if you were charging the cable would have to go over the footpath. Is this an option with something like a mat over the cable or is it just a big no?

KCross · 03-02-2021 6:24pm

Currently a big no becuase you are open to being sued in this mad legal system we have and the fact that you dont own the footpath or have the right to dig it to hide cables.

biko · 03-02-2021 6:28pm

This question has come up before and there isn't really much you can do without a driveway.
Can you charge at work or public charge stations?

ED E · 03-02-2021 6:31pm

A man near me charges his X5 PHEV via the footpath in a private space (gated community).

100dffd954b88a8e2a02eb9398681b981632c0c8.jpg?image_crop_resized=640x360

100dffd954b88a8e2a02eb9398681b981632c0c8.jpg?image_crop_resized=640x360

Covered like this, whether or not it'd save him in court is hard to know.

maddness · 03-02-2021 6:53pm

ED E wrote: »

A man near me charges his X5 PHEV via the footpath in a private space (gated community).

Covered like this, whether or not it'd save him in court is hard to know.

That’s the kind of thing I was thinking of, a similar rubber mat to cover the cable.
I don’t have a phev but am thinking of one and don’t have an office to charge it.

Gumbo · 03-02-2021 6:53pm

maddness wrote: »

This may be a stupid question but does anyone charge their ev/phev at home without their own driveway. The reason I ask is where I live we have parking spaces outside but if you were charging the cable would have to go over the footpath. Is this an option with something like a mat over the cable or is it just a big no?

Have you got a Management Company?
If so, you can core out a tunnel under the path to the front wall of the house. You can then connect to your consumer unit.

The other end can connect to a pedestal charger subject to MC approval.

Been done a few times around the place now.

Gumbo · 03-02-2021 6:55pm

maddness wrote: »

That’s the kind of thing I was thinking of, a similar rubber mat to cover the cable.
I don’t have a phev but am thinking of one and don’t have an office to charge it.

Still liability issues with these. Especially for people using wheelchairs, walking sticks or kanes. You are still cross a public path and therefore public liability is required.

maddness · 03-02-2021 7:30pm

Gumbo wrote: »

Have you got a Management Company?
If so, you can core out a tunnel under the path to the front wall of the house. You can then connect to your consumer unit.

The other end can connect to a pedestal charger subject to MC approval.

Been done a few times around the place now.

Cheers for the suggestion.
I wasn’t going to install a charger as we are hoping to move house next year.

maddness · 03-02-2021 7:33pm

Gumbo wrote: »

Still liability issues with these. Especially for people using wheelchairs, walking sticks or kanes. You are still cross a public path and therefore public liability is required.

That’s what I thought alright, phev might not be for me at the moment.

Gumbo · 03-02-2021 7:34pm

maddness wrote: »

That’s what I thought alright, phev might not be for me at the moment.

Easy to install as per my previous post.

flazio · 03-02-2021 7:36pm

What about some sort of gantry hanging off the wall, maybe 7ft up reaching over the path onto the parking space?

maddness · 03-02-2021 7:51pm

Gumbo wrote: »

Easy to install as per my previous post.

At what cost though?

liamog · 03-02-2021 8:15pm

My install cost about €1,200, well worth the price. There are much cheaper options available now than going full pedestal.
We're management company, which makes the whole process easier.

1Lj845w.jpg?1

Gumbo · 03-02-2021 8:20pm

flazio wrote: »

What about some sort of gantry hanging off the wall, maybe 7ft up reaching over the path onto the parking space?

And hope it doesn’t fall onto a passing person. You have to fix a “structure” in the public domain so technically into planning territory.

maddness · 03-02-2021 8:35pm

liamog wrote: »

My install cost about €1,200, well worth the price. There are much cheaper options available now than going full pedestal.
We're management company, which makes the whole process easier.

That look great in fairness. Is the €600 grant available for this too?

Buddy Bubs · 03-02-2021 8:37pm

liamog wrote: »

My install cost about €1,200, well worth the price. There are much cheaper options available now than going full pedestal.
We're management company, which makes the whole process easier.

Where is the power drawn from for that?

WayneEnterprise · 03-02-2021 8:38pm

I got this done

Gumbo · 03-02-2021 8:42pm

Buddy Bubs wrote: »

Where is the power drawn from for that?

As per my previous posts in this same thread.
The cable is cored under the path to house consumer unit.

Very common here in Dublin.

Buddy Bubs · 03-02-2021 9:01pm

Gumbo wrote: »

As per my previous posts in this same thread.
The cable is cored under the path to house consumer unit.

Very common here in Dublin.

Looks great

Gumbo · 03-02-2021 9:18pm

Buddy Bubs wrote: »

Looks great

Yeah obviously costs more than a standard install so you just have to weigh it up against costs and time you plan to be in the house for etc.

It can only help when selling too.

graememk · 03-02-2021 9:47pm

Gumbo wrote: »

As per my previous posts in this same thread.
The cable is cored under the path to house consumer unit.

Very common here in Dublin.

Would love to see that done, Just for sheer curiosity.

All really neat jobs.

Gumbo · 03-02-2021 9:54pm

graememk wrote: »

Would love to see that done, Just for sheer curiosity.

All really neat jobs.

There’s 2 pictures of the finished article up above your post.

Also many posts on the Irish EV Facebook page from the actual installers.

graememk · 03-02-2021 10:06pm

Gumbo wrote: »

There’s 2 pictures of the finished article up above your post.

Also many posts on the Irish EV Facebook page from the actual installers.

I meant the actual tunneling bit!

Gumbo · 03-02-2021 10:08pm

graememk wrote: »

I meant the actual tunneling bit!

Think Armageddon but on a smaller scale

graememk · 03-02-2021 10:09pm

Gumbo wrote: »

Think Armageddon but on a smaller scale

Going totally off topic.. The Core?

Gumbo · 03-02-2021 10:20pm

graememk wrote: »

Going totally off topic.. The Core?

Nigel Daly from NMD Electrical has done and posted a few on the FB Group.

WayneEnterprise · 03-02-2021 11:02pm

graememk wrote: »

I meant the actual tunneling bit!

Mine wasn’t tunnelled, just lifted and replaced the paving stones.

smellyoldboot · 03-02-2021 11:14pm

Before you think about spending a fortune on an EVand charger etc, think about this: the street outside your door and "your" parking space don't actually belong to you. An asshole neighbour can decide to park their second/third car there or someone's gomie relatives could stay for a while and block your space, stop you from charging and there's not a thing you can do about it.

WayneEnterprise · 03-02-2021 11:19pm

smellyoldboot wrote: »

Before you think about spending a fortune on an EVand charger etc, think about this: the street outside your door and "your" parking space don't actually belong to you. An asshole neighbour can decide to park their second/third car there or someone's gomie relatives could stay for a while and block your space, stop you from charging and there's not a thing you can do about it.

I do own my car spaces, they are in my property deeds.

smellyoldboot · 03-02-2021 11:22pm

WayneEnterprise wrote: »

I do own my car spaces, they are in my property deeds.

Tunnel away so. You can put nearly anything you like under the ground.

Gumbo · 03-02-2021 11:42pm

WayneEnterprise wrote: »

Mine wasn’t tunnelled, just lifted and replaced the paving stones.

Your in the lucky position to have a fully paved route.
Easy job to lift, lay cable and relay and re-sand.

Nice neat job.

konline · 24-10-2021 12:03pm

I am happy to this post. I have the same issue, I have a pavement between my house and the car, i.e no driveway. Could someone share the contact details of the person/company in Dublin who installs the car charger like above? Thank you.

DaveyDave · 26-10-2021 8:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065689#Comment_118065689

This crowd do it apparently:

https://evchargingstations.ie/projects/

An example for about 3m of pavement including a charger is around €3,000 apparently but of course there's the issue of the council, a management company etc.

Personally I'd like to know if there's a possibility for a simple duct so a charger can be used without installing a pedestal. Spaces outside my house are only 2.4x5m each so limited space, would prefer to have little in the way.

zg3409 · 27-10-2021 3:54pm

Firstly the temporary option, I would be worried about a claim, some attempted to get it added to house insurance but they would not cover it. Some suggested CCTV might limit risk.

In terms of physically installing, it can be done, however you need permission from footpath owner, if it's county council it's practically impossible although some in UK got a channel cut with a rain drain with a cover where the cable can be dropped inside.

If residence association they you need approved insured contactor. The biggest hurdle is getting the thumbs up from management company. They are worried about a claim hitting them. What is upside for them? Often they only meet one time a year. Typically they just say no by default. In order to get a yes, you need a full insured plan where you will take care of everything and bring a complete project for approval, and there is no risk to management company if a claim or downside. If you just fire off a random email don't expect the result to be positive. Costs are often 3000+ and you may not get grant, but may get grant possibly by accident.

konline · 28-10-2021 11:13am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118080775#Comment_118080775

Thanks for your post. This is what exactly happened to me. My management company says, they can't give permission because of insurance issue and advising me to wait till the estate is handed over to County Council. We all know that it won't happen for 10 yrs at least or may never happen. Government is talking about abolishing ICE cars and promoting EV cars in 10 yrs time, if over 80% of houses can't install charging units, I am not sure how this would be implemented.

Has anyone had similar issue and found a solution?

zg3409 · 28-10-2021 11:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118084313#Comment_118084313

Some people have continued to drive a petrol or diesel until they live somewhere with a charger. Come 2030 assuming they don't do a policy change, you can still buy 1 year old petrol and diesel cars.

Some have moved house.

In reality you have already got a no changing that to a yes will be very difficult. Insurance is often just an excuse to not try. With the council taking over it may be more difficult but over time the rules and liability may change. They might decide to install chargers in all spots some day.

DaveyDave · 28-10-2021 11:48am

Depends on where you live I suppose, a local councillor in SDCC shared a point from a meeting on the SDZ zone where I live saying the developer and council need to provide a solution for facilitating a charger. My estate isn't finished and God only knows when, if, the council will take over, and they're only taking the roads and paths whereas parking spaces belong to management. Whether that's the OMC or management company, is another question...

We already pay public liability insurance and there's already companies out there installing charge points in parking spaces outside houses which I believe is all above board so the question of the insurance risk, planning etc should have an answer.

So far, a channel in the path covered by a metal drain cover is a cost effective, safe solution in my eyes.

Apparently SEAI have a grant coming out for these installation charges but in my opinion the councils should be paying, at least in my case where they purposely plan parking spaces outside private houses.

konline · 28-10-2021 2:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118084358#Comment_118084358

In my case I bought the car already :( Management company is unhelpful.

Thanks.

Cdemess · 28-10-2021 11:14pm

. ..

zg3409 · 31-10-2021 11:49am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118085603#Comment_118085603

There is no shame in switching cars if it does not suit your use case. In the future all parking spaces may have chargers, but for now pick the mode of transport that makes sense. Some people with very large battery EVs with local 50+kW chargers charge for 20 to 40 minutes a week which covers them. It's ideal if you have a 50+kW charger at your local Tesco or lidl, or workplace charging, but the risk is when you need it someone else is using it.

Del2005 · 31-10-2021 6:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118097194#Comment_118097194

All new parking spaces will have chargers. I can see big problems getting a lot of current parking places fitted with chargers and this is going to be a big issue when people are looking to change cars, easy to use ICE or plan ahead BEV, and the government hitting their target for BEV cars.

ted1 · 31-10-2021 9:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/116154458#Comment_116154458

Your not really. Unless there is an insurance policy in place no solicitor will take a case. As there won’t be a pool of money to kay out from.

Del2005 · 01-11-2021 7:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118099456#Comment_118099456

There'd be an insurance policy in place on both ends of the cable and the people are never shy about suing for pavement issues in this country.

Laviski · 02-11-2021 4:10pm

I have a driveway but barely charge at home. Im doing about 13K a year since got a leaf and dealing with the changes as a result of covid when means i'm doing less than what i was pre covid where i would have been doing about 18k.

Avail of city center parking where you only pay for electricity ( cheaper than paying for parking , apparently doesn't apply in come councils eg: dublin)
shopping centers where there is free charging.
the rare trip to the office where there is free charging.

As a result my fuel cost is pretty much non-existent. This scenario won't apply to everyone obviously so just look at your circumstances and see where you can charge for free and importantly is it feasible..... that doing such tasks doesn't put you out of your way.

I didn't have a driveway, i wouldn't be impacted by much.... there is still the issue of dealing with long journeys where when i leave i would like to be 100% so that's where plugging in at home comes in handy.

innrain · 03-11-2021 1:25pm

I know it is a gimmick but it is something there. Maybe manufacturers will come up with a replaceable module like this that will charge the main battery from the boot. 4kWh is very small though

https://www.zipcharge.global/

Fingleberries · 03-11-2021 2:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112170#Comment_118112170

Interesting indeed - if it'll add an extra 50km to an EV, it would be nice as a top-up (an EV equivalent of a Jerry can, if you will)

It's handy that it's portable. My only concern with it being portable, is that it's portable and looks like it could be easily nicked. I wonder what anti-theft protection they have on it.

kanuseeme · 03-11-2021 2:44pm

Stick a Tesla badge on it and sell it as a back up to blocked super chargers

HeidiHeidi · 03-11-2021 2:51pm

I can't help wondering, if/when ICE cars are no longer allowed (which seems to be the intention in the medium term), what are they going to do with all the people like me who live in houses with no driveway, and free-for-all parking on the public road?? There must be thousands of us!

I also have no way of charging a car at work.

They're hardly going to install chargers at every parking space in the city...

zg3409 · 03-11-2021 4:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112651#Comment_118112651

Someone will install a charger outlet on path, the driver will stay with ICE or hybrid with increased costs, or owner will charge at work or at supermarket on 50kW+ charger. This is inevitable even if it's 10 or 20 or 30 years from now.

Many new housing estates have unassigned non driveway parking.

DaveyDave · 03-11-2021 4:31pm

Boggles the mind how local councils are allowed to continue forcing estates to have parking spaces knowing the issue around charging already exists. I live in an SDZ and it's been brought up by councilors as far back as 3 years ago, although planning rules are from 2014 I believe.

innrain · 03-11-2021 4:37pm

They're hardly going to install chargers at every parking space in the city...

Believe it or not this is going to happen in the next 10-15 years. But is not that our gov or LCs will solve this problem which it is seen as a low priority in the Irish society due the low ratio of multi development units to houses. The solution will come from the countries where such problem runs deeper. Afterall they are not actually chargers but some glorified sockets and the most intelligent component in them is the billing module.

Here are some examples:

Westminster -- pop 250k surface 21.5 km2 over 1000 chargers

https://www.westminster.gov.uk/parking/electric-vehicles You can even request one if you think the closest is too busy or too far away.

Vienna half the size of Dublin as surface the same pop: 1k chargers installed already

https://www.electrive.com/2021/06/22/wien-energie-installs-1000-charge-points-in-vienna/

Charging without a driveway

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