Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Walk slowly in the opposite direction......they will catch up
Options
Comments
-
Could we see a day where it would be an offence to have to high fertility in soil samples
I'd hope not. Some of the top regenerative farmers have soil humming along of it's own accord producing it's own nitrogen (and phosphorus).
How do you penalize those for going to that extent to get their soils in that order when all they did was maintain output while reducing input and capturing more soil carbon?
Comparing those to those that rely on everything from the bag and bought in would be like comparing apples to oranges.
Even natural soil types. I'm high in potash. Not from the bag.
Someone in east Wicklow would be high in phosphorus. Not from the bag either.
The only thing missing is understanding natural soil nitrogen. Which is sorely missing in this country.
Deliberately I'm guessing.0 -
patsy_mccabe wrote: »Ireland has the lowest emissions in Europe when it comes to dairying. Why would you restrict dairying in Ireland and increase it somewhere else where the carbon footprint is higher.
Needs to clean up its act on water quality and related issues though. If it gets tagged with the "Dirty Dairy" rep like the NZ industry, it will be very hard to recover that reputation and may even compromise sales into certain markets0 -
Siamsa Sessions wrote: »We could very well see wink-wink-nudge-nudge “restrictions” coming in. It’ll be more paperwork and stress for lads but as you said, given how much the Government have invested in TAMS and in supporting Teagasc’s dairy work, then that same Government will not want to reduce dairy exports or the revenue it generates.
There might be lots of huffing and puffing, and shaking their heads at water quality issues, but once the lip service has been paid and they’re behind their own closed doors again, the Government will just shrug their shoulders.
Yes - But they can only BS and Bluster for so long until the EU takes a case and they end with up their hand being forced on the issue like what happened in Holland a while back.0 -
Yes - But they can only BS and Bluster for so long until the EU takes a case and they end with up their hand being forced on the issue like what happened in Holland a while back.
We're a long way off hollands problems,
When they force the towns and cities to tidy their act and force Bord na mona to take the 10ft of peat outa the shannon,........ then farmers should worry.0 -
-
Advertisement
-
I seen on the news during the week that carbon emissions had dropped by 6% last year. This was a year when large parts of the economy were shut from March to June,.no school travel from march, significant numbers working from home, electricity generation ceasing using peat power etc. The target was 7% under some of the climate agreements I think. And 7% this year and next and so on. If farmers think they are getting away with the nod and wink they are in for a rude awakening. All sectors of the economy will come under pressure. And as that article alluded getting more efficient and still increasing numbers wont cut it0
-
All sectors won't come under pressure are you joking.
When the lockdown is over irish people will be off on their holiers to the farthest flung places on earth.
If you want to make impact, link it to the individual and what they do whether they save or spend carbon.
Obsolving the individuals responsibility to a vague government responsibility achieves nothing and lets the high well to do high carbon spenders off the hook to continue spending carbon.0 -
We're a long way off hollands problems,
When they force the towns and cities to tidy their act and force Bord na mona to take the 10ft of peat outa the shannon,........ then farmers should worry.
Irish water have said that will be spending a couple of Billion euros on bringing all the sewage treatment plants up to "A" standard within 5 years and according to them the government has already signed off on that spend and submitted it to the EU who was putting pressure on them under the Water directive. As for BNM, atm they may feel like they are a law onto themselves but there is a number of cases before the High Court atm regarding their (mis)management of harvested bogs in the Shannon Catchment that will more than likely see them sanctioned by the ECJ and have them humming a different tune in the years ahead. At the end of the day its been successive governments dragging their ar$e on all these issues that has brought us to this point but finally looks like they are about to run out of road with the BS and Bluster.0 -
Irish water have said that will be spending a couple of Billion euros on bringing all the sewage treatment plants up to "A" standard within 5 years and according to them the government has already signed off on that spend and submitted it to the EU who was putting pressure on them under the Water directive. As for BNM, atm they may feel like they are a law onto themselves but there is a number of cases before the High Court atm regarding their (mis)management of harvested bogs in the Shannon Catchment that will more than likely see them sanctioned by the ECJ and have them humming a different tune in the years ahead. At the end of the day its been successive governments dragging their ar$e on all these issues that has brought us to this point but finally looks like they are about to run out of road with the BS and Bluster.
There is no way Irish water will do all that in 5 years.0 -
Tonynewholland wrote: »There is no way Irish water will do all that in 5 years.
Well they've kicked off big time near my parents place in North Kildare with a massive upgrade of the Osberstown treatment plant that serves a big chunk of that region. ATM they seem to be prioritizing plants discharging to freshwater as that appears to be were pollution problems are most severe/urgent according to the latest EPA report.0 -
Advertisement
-
Tonynewholland wrote: »There is no way Irish water will do all that in 5 years.
Nor any of the public service either, scandalous the way they won't control the flooding.0 -
Say my name wrote: »All sectors won't come under pressure are you joking.
When the lockdown is over irish people will be off on their holiers to the farthest flung places on earth.
If you want to make impact, link it to the individual and what they do whether they save or spend carbon.
Obsolving the individuals responsibility to a vague government responsibility achieves nothing and lets the high well to do high carbon spenders off the hook to continue spending carbon.
That might be option. Add 50% tax to the price of flights might disincentivise air travel. This would also mean adding say 20% to the cost of a litre of milk or 2euro to a steak. Agriculture accounts for one third of carbon emissions in ireland. We can argue that food produced here is more enviromentally friendly than in the Amazon or wherever but policy makers wont care. Unfortunately agriculture doesn't hold the same importance as it once did in this country and I cant see any government turning a blind eye to agri. Political parties in this country are more interested in what's happening inside the m50 and other large urban centres than outside.0 -
That might be option. Add 50% tax to the price of flights might disincentivise air travel. This would also mean adding say 20% to the cost of a litre of milk or 2euro to a steak. Agriculture accounts for one third of carbon emissions in ireland. We can argue that food produced here is more enviromentally friendly than in the Amazon or wherever but policy makers wont care. Unfortunately agriculture doesn't hold the same importance as it once did in this country and I cant see any government turning a blind eye to agri. Political parties in this country are more interested in what's happening inside the m50 and other large urban centres than outside.
China et al are striving with all of their being for food security while we do our best to abandon it.1 -
Look, it will come down to whether you have the land available or not. I have 55ish hectares owned. Build a summer parlour on the outfarm and all of that is a grazing platform.
55 x 3.5 (mooted stocking rate per ha on grazing platform) = 192.5 cows.
A savage amount of dairy farms around here have significant out farms. The boom would continue for parlour manufacturers.
You misunderstand the concept. Since quota's ceased any time any limitations were put on expansion dairy farmers rented more land to solve nitrates issues. While they have obeyed the 250 kgsN/ HA the number of cows on milking platforms have remained the same or increased. Look at the reaction to the increase is of dairy cows to 89 kgs of N. Rent more land.
Milking platform limitations will be exactly that. At 3.5 cows / HA that is equivalent to 350kgs N/ HA. The limit will be on the milking platform. In you case the limit be to which the ever platform you choose. To carry on any higher stocking rate if it is allowed will mean cows will have to be housed. This may mean housing part of the herd or maybe housing at night. The slurry will have to be exported off the platform to external ground. Essentially this will probably mean that it will not be economical to exceed stocking rate.
It was interesting that last year we heard that the eye in the sky would be used to monitor GLAS schemes such as low input pasture and traditional meadow for compliance with rules. Modern satellite camera technology would be able to count the cows in a paddock.Slava Ukrainii
0 -
That might be option. Add 50% tax to the price of flights might disincentivise air travel. This would also mean adding say 20% to the cost of a litre of milk or 2euro to a steak. Agriculture accounts for one third of carbon emissions in ireland. We can argue that food produced here is more enviromentally friendly than in the Amazon or wherever but policy makers wont care. Unfortunately agriculture doesn't hold the same importance as it once did in this country and I cant see any government turning a blind eye to agri. Political parties in this country are more interested in what's happening inside the m50 and other large urban centres than outside.
Why add a carbon tax on milk or steak?
Microsoft this week paid over $500,000 to an Australian cattle station in exchange to use their carbon credit of 40,000 tons of sequestered carbon.
In this country non farmers beliger farmers for carbon usage on faulty accounting figures that will continue to be used for years while ignoring soil sequestration through grazing. Farmers never got a fair deal in the first place.
The rest of the world gets on with their business looks at the science, looks at the carbon, looks to see how it can be improved on, educates those who can make a change.
What happens here?
Cows bad. Beef bad. Farmers bad.
All the while they're booking their holidays to Cairo or Abu Dhabi.
New Zealand proclaims they're the most carbon neutral dairy farmers in the world and the Irish non farmers here attack them for it.
Same in Europe. Ireland and Austria are the most carbon neutral in milk production and they are castigated for it.
You can't win with the Irish.
Unfortunately it's the Irish non farmers are among the highest carbon users in the world and I say non farmers as farming is THE ONLY industry in the world that can sequester carbon with the bonus of providing sustenance for the human race.0 -
Bass Reeves wrote: »You misunderstand the concept. Since quota's ceased any time any limitations were put on expansion dairy farmers rented more land to solve nitrates issues. While they have obeyed the 250 kgsN/ HA the number of cows on milking platforms have remained the same or increased. Look at the reaction to the increase is of dairy cows to 89 kgs of N. Rent more land.
Milking platform limitations will be exactly that. At 3.5 cows / HA that is equivalent to 350kgs N/ HA. The limit will be on the milking platform. In you case the limit be to which the ever platform you choose. To carry on any higher stocking rate if it is allowed will mean cows will have to be housed. This may mean housing part of the herd or maybe housing at night. The slurry will have to be exported off the platform to external ground. Essentially this will probably mean that it will not be economical to exceed stocking rate.
It was interesting that last year we heard that the eye in the sky would be used to monitor GLAS schemes such as low input pasture and traditional meadow for compliance with rules. Modern satellite camera technology would be able to count the cows in a paddock.
Dont misunderstand the concept. By having a parlour on an out block it is also part of your milking platform. A milking platform is ground cows can graze while in milk.0 -
Say my name wrote: »Why add a carbon tax on milk or steak?
Microsoft this week paid over $500,000 to an Australian cattle station in exchange to use their carbon credit of 40,000 tons of sequestered carbon.
In this country non farmers beliger farmers for carbon usage on faulty accounting figures that will continue to be used for years while ignoring soil sequestration through grazing. Farmers never got a fair deal in the first place.
The rest of the world gets on with their business looks at the science, looks at the carbon, looks to see how it can be improved on, educates those who can make a change.
What happens here?
Cows bad. Beef bad. Farmers bad.
All the while they're booking their holidays to Cairo or Abu Dhabi.
New Zealand proclaims they're the most carbon neutral dairy farmers in the world and the Irish non farmers here attack them for it.
Same in Europe. Ireland and Austria are the most carbon neutral in milk production and they are castigated for it.
You can't win with the Irish.
Unfortunately it's the Irish non farmers are among the highest carbon users in the world and I say non farmers as farming is THE ONLY industry in the world that can sequester carbon with the bonus of providing sustenance for the human race.
Not going to get into the metrics on carbon counting or the specifics of soil sequestration with you say my name as I dont have the knowledge on it but would the same hectare of ground not sequester the same amount of carbon stocked at 2cows/ha as 4cows/ha. And cut back on the bags of CAN. I am a farmer myself incase you think I am one fo the irish non farmers as per your post above and maybe I am playing devils advocate here but I personally think farmers have their heads in the sand if they think agriculture will get a free pass with regards climate change policy0 -
Join Date:Posts: 3526
Whatever the social or environmental costs, successive Irish Governments have rarely acted against private enterprise.
Banking crisis
Housing/homeless crisis
Public health crisis
Beef tribunal and Larry
Apple tax bill
Etc
To address the above would impact private business in Government eyes. You could argue the toss for and against these cases but the common factor is the Irish Government (whether it’s FG or FF led) either supports private enterprises or acts only when it is forced to.
This is a bad thing or a good thing, depending on which side you were born on. But it’s hard to see the Government reducing dairy production unless it is forced to by the EU. And even then, it’ll fight it to the last.Trading as Sullivan’s Farm on YouTube
0 -
Dont misunderstand the concept. By having a parlour on an out block it is also part of your milking platform. A milking platform is ground cows can graze while in milk.
Yes you can do that but you will be milking on both platforms at the same time if you are stocked above the rate per landbank.Slava Ukrainii
0 -
Siamsa Sessions wrote: »Whatever the social or environmental costs, successive Irish Governments have rarely acted against private enterprise.
Banking crisis
Housing/homeless crisis
Public health crisis
Beef tribunal and Larry
Apple tax bill
Etc
To address the above would impact private business in Government eyes. You could argue the toss for and against these cases but the common factor is the Irish Government (whether it’s FG or FF led) either supports private enterprises or acts only when it is forced to.
This is a bad thing or a good thing, depending on which side you were born on. But it’s hard to see the Government reducing dairy production unless it is forced to by the EU. And even then, it’ll fight it to the last.
Don't underestimate greta thunberg and her followers.
They're hell bent on reducing emissions and that unfortunately includes livestock reduction.
The eu will bring it in its only a matter of time.
When this pandemic is over the narrative will quickly revert back to climate action0 -
Advertisement
-
The 4cows/ha believe it or not would sequester more carbon.Not going to get into the metrics on carbon counting or the specifics of soil sequestration with you say my name as I dont have the knowledge on it but would the same hectare of ground not sequester the same amount of carbon stocked at 2cows/ha as 4cows/ha. And cut back on the bags of CAN. I am a farmer myself incase you think I am one fo the irish non farmers as per your post above and maybe I am playing devils advocate here but I personally think farmers have their heads in the sand if they think agriculture will get a free pass with regards climate change policy
By all virtue of their sh1t. The more sh1t on the ground the more carbon rich food that's feeding the soil and carbon in the soil.
But it's all dependent.
It's all dependent how much fossil fuel is used to produce that cows food and fossil fuel used in that cows lifecycle to produce milk or beef.
Same goes for all the other farming sectors. But if you till the soil you release the carbon again. Yet nobody outside of farming sees an issue with tilling. It's cows they hear as bad.
Personally I don't think farmers have their heads in the sand. Well not the ones I know. I believe lots of non farmers do though. They want to ride agriculture in this country like an ass while not acknowledging that emissions in agriculture have decreased. And still won't acknowledge that agriculture is not the yoke around their neck on carbon emissions like they claim here but any country in the world give their left teeth to have their largest industry as agriculture as they know, I'll say it again the only industry that can be not neutral but negative.
We are in a blessed position as a country in the world.
We'll finally catch up. Then we'll make progress.0 -
Siamsa Sessions wrote: »Whatever the social or environmental costs, successive Irish Governments have rarely acted against private enterprise.
Banking crisis
Housing/homeless crisis
Public health crisis
Beef tribunal and Larry
Apple tax bill
Etc
To address the above would impact private business in Government eyes. You could argue the toss for and against these cases but the common factor is the Irish Government (whether it’s FG or FF led) either supports private enterprises or acts only when it is forced to.
This is a bad thing or a good thing, depending on which side you were born on. But it’s hard to see the Government reducing dairy production unless it is forced to by the EU. And even then, it’ll fight it to the last.
The government id caught in different ways. Yes if it had the choice it would let it rip. However we have to get our emissions down. Now Ireland may be able to prove that grazing cattle are lower carbon and that our hedgerows sequester carbon. However any reset will only happen in 5-10years time. In the meantime it must work with the present carbon ratings. Lads have short memories in the late noughies the then Government was going to sell agri down the drain to allow building development to continue. The downturn after that actually reduced limits so it only started to become an issue in the last 2-3 years.
From a green house gas perceptive we cannot continue with dairy expansion. The minister says as much in this . He is constantly on about a stable herd. How do you put a stable herd in place.
https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/minister-on-dairy-expansion-ag-climatise-based-on-premise-of-stable-herd/
The only way you put a stable herd in place is by stocking limits unless you bring back milk quota's. However that would stop all new entrants.Slava Ukrainii
0 -
It took nearly a decade to build the last treatment plant in galway city 😳 it was obsolete capacity wise in the first year of constructionWell they've kicked off big time near my parents place in North Kildare with a massive upgrade of the Osberstown treatment plant that serves a big chunk of that region. ATM they seem to be prioritizing plants discharging to freshwater as that appears to be were pollution problems are most severe/urgent according to the latest EPA report.
That's from the engineers who were overseeing it0 -
fossil fuels will be the big enemy in the next decade and anything ran on diesel will get it in the neck , while the global food production sector is strong at the moment , the energy sector is on its ar5e , this sector is by far the biggest contributor to climate change , not cows
maybe farmers need to be more concerned about a massive hike in diesel levies than anything else , thats something the government can sell as most people now are open to the idea of electric cars etc , obviously no electric tractor option ( yet ) but will joe tax payer care about opposition to tractor diesel getting hit ?
been reading some articles from the UK about farmers who built new sheds with solar panels on the roof , do the government grant aid that kind of building?0 -
Serious area on a shed roof. How to get the heat to a house the is the question. Insulation is only so goodfossil fuels will be the big enemy in the next decade and anything ran on diesel will get it in the neck
maybe farmers need to be more concerned about a massive hike in diesel levies than anything else , thats something the government can sell as most people now are open to the idea of electric cars etc , obviously no electric tractor option ( yet ) but will joe tax payer care about opposition to tractor diesel getting hit ?
been reading some articles from the UK about farmers who built new sheds with solar panels on the roof0 -
Say my name wrote: »The 4cows/ha believe it or not would sequester more carbon.
By all virtue of their sh1t. The more sh1t on the ground the more carbon rich food that's feeding the soil and carbon in the soil.
But it's all dependent.
It's all dependent how much fossil fuel is used to produce that cows food and fossil fuel used in that cows lifecycle to produce milk or beef.
Same goes for all the other farming sectors. But if you till the soil you release the carbon again. Yet nobody outside of farming sees an issue with tilling. It's cows they hear as bad.
Personally I don't think farmers have their heads in the sand. Well not the ones I know. I believe lots of non farmers do though. They want to ride agriculture in this country like an ass while not acknowledging that emissions in agriculture have decreased. And still won't acknowledge that agriculture is not the yoke around their neck on carbon emissions like they claim here but any country in the world give their left teeth to have their largest industry as agriculture as they know, I'll say it again the only industry that can be not neutral but negative.
We are in a blessed position as a country in the world.
We'll finally catch up. Then we'll make progress.
Whats point in decreasing all these emissions,if they are poisioning every river in the country either though
Land is saturated around here and lads are throwing out slurry last fortnight,as they havnt enough storage/capacity with all the rain aswell,thats only going one place
I could see lads being required to increase slurry storage to having capacity for 9 months per cow,0 -
[Deleted User] wrote: »Whats point in decreasing all these emissions,if they are poisioning every river in the country either though
Land is saturated around here and lads are throwing out slurry last fortnight,as they havnt enough storage/capacity with all the rain aswell,thats only going one place
I could see lads being required to increase slurry storage to having capacity for 9 months per cow,
Its methane emissions that's the problem.
Cattle produce a huge amount of it and its 20 times more harmful than carbon emissions.
Livestock reduction in numbers is coming whether we like it or not.0 -
Its methane emissions that's the problem.
Cattle produce a huge amount of it and its 20 times more harmful than carbon emissions.
Livestock reduction in numbers is coming whether we like it or not.
these methane emissions is greatest load of sh1te i ever heard,lads thinking few cows in ireland are resoonsible for warming the plannet are engaging in a weird form of diverion argueing,obv its heavy industry is multiple more responsible
I feel the greens,have really lost the plot on this,i remember growing up,they argueing on water quality etc,highly reasonable and attainable objectives (it pisses me off lads spreading slurry before rain and on saturated land and the excessive spreading of fertilizer)
....reducing irish herd,talking about cows/grass haveing carbon sequence is utterly delusional ,when wuhan has a higher carbon footprint than the entire island and china has zero commitment to reducing its output0 -
[Deleted User] wrote: »Whats point in decreasing all these emissions,if they are poisioning every river in the country either though
Land is saturated around here and lads are throwing out slurry last fortnight,as they havnt enough storage/capacity with all the rain aswell,thats only going one place
I could see lads being required to increase slurry storage to having capacity for 9 months per cow,
Was at a pig farm a month ago and he had over 30 weeks storage0 -
Advertisement
-
[Deleted User] wrote: »these methane emissions is greatest load of sh1te i ever heard,lads thinking few cows in ireland are resoonsible for warming the plannet are engaging in a weird form of diverion argueing,obv its heavy industry is multiple more responsible
I feel the greens,have really lost the plot on this,i remember growing up,they argueing on water quality etc,highly reasonable and attainable objectives (it pisses me off lads spreading slurry before rain and on saturated land and the excessive spreading of fertilizer)
....reducing irish herd,talking about cows/grass haveing carbon sequence is utterly delusional ,when wuhan has a higher carbon footprint than the entire island and china has zero commitment to reducing its output
Agree with you to a certain extent re pollution and emissions in far flung places.
But methane is the big problem with cows its a highy potent gas. As well as nitrates and water quality.
I'm just stating whats likely to happen here in the next few years.
Remember we're the good boys in the class.
Bolsanaro will help us out though,when we've our emissions s target met and the national herd well cut back.
Out of sight and out of mind.0
![[Deleted User]](/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
Advertisement