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Walk slowly in the opposite direction......they will catch up

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,453 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    All sectors won't come under pressure are you joking.

    When the lockdown is over irish people will be off on their holiers to the farthest flung places on earth.

    If you want to make impact, link it to the individual and what they do whether they save or spend carbon.
    Obsolving the individuals responsibility to a vague government responsibility achieves nothing and lets the high well to do high carbon spenders off the hook to continue spending carbon.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,945 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    wrangler wrote: »
    We're a long way off hollands problems,
    When they force the towns and cities to tidy their act and force Bord na mona to take the 10ft of peat outa the shannon,........ then farmers should worry.

    Irish water have said that will be spending a couple of Billion euros on bringing all the sewage treatment plants up to "A" standard within 5 years and according to them the government has already signed off on that spend and submitted it to the EU who was putting pressure on them under the Water directive. As for BNM, atm they may feel like they are a law onto themselves but there is a number of cases before the High Court atm regarding their (mis)management of harvested bogs in the Shannon Catchment that will more than likely see them sanctioned by the ECJ and have them humming a different tune in the years ahead. At the end of the day its been successive governments dragging their ar$e on all these issues that has brought us to this point but finally looks like they are about to run out of road with the BS and Bluster.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,429 ✭✭✭Tonynewholland


    Birdnuts wrote: »
    Irish water have said that will be spending a couple of Billion euros on bringing all the sewage treatment plants up to "A" standard within 5 years and according to them the government has already signed off on that spend and submitted it to the EU who was putting pressure on them under the Water directive. As for BNM, atm they may feel like they are a law onto themselves but there is a number of cases before the High Court atm regarding their (mis)management of harvested bogs in the Shannon Catchment that will more than likely see them sanctioned by the ECJ and have them humming a different tune in the years ahead. At the end of the day its been successive governments dragging their ar$e on all these issues that has brought us to this point but finally looks like they are about to run out of road with the BS and Bluster.

    There is no way Irish water will do all that in 5 years.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,945 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    There is no way Irish water will do all that in 5 years.

    Well they've kicked off big time near my parents place in North Kildare with a massive upgrade of the Osberstown treatment plant that serves a big chunk of that region. ATM they seem to be prioritizing plants discharging to freshwater as that appears to be were pollution problems are most severe/urgent according to the latest EPA report.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,531 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    There is no way Irish water will do all that in 5 years.

    Nor any of the public service either, scandalous the way they won't control the flooding.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 625 ✭✭✭dh1985


    All sectors won't come under pressure are you joking.

    When the lockdown is over irish people will be off on their holiers to the farthest flung places on earth.

    If you want to make impact, link it to the individual and what they do whether they save or spend carbon.
    Obsolving the individuals responsibility to a vague government responsibility achieves nothing and lets the high well to do high carbon spenders off the hook to continue spending carbon.

    That might be option. Add 50% tax to the price of flights might disincentivise air travel. This would also mean adding say 20% to the cost of a litre of milk or 2euro to a steak. Agriculture accounts for one third of carbon emissions in ireland. We can argue that food produced here is more enviromentally friendly than in the Amazon or wherever but policy makers wont care. Unfortunately agriculture doesn't hold the same importance as it once did in this country and I cant see any government turning a blind eye to agri. Political parties in this country are more interested in what's happening inside the m50 and other large urban centres than outside.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,462 ✭✭✭Grueller


    dh1985 wrote: »
    That might be option. Add 50% tax to the price of flights might disincentivise air travel. This would also mean adding say 20% to the cost of a litre of milk or 2euro to a steak. Agriculture accounts for one third of carbon emissions in ireland. We can argue that food produced here is more enviromentally friendly than in the Amazon or wherever but policy makers wont care. Unfortunately agriculture doesn't hold the same importance as it once did in this country and I cant see any government turning a blind eye to agri. Political parties in this country are more interested in what's happening inside the m50 and other large urban centres than outside.

    China et al are striving with all of their being for food security while we do our best to abandon it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,526 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Grueller wrote: »
    Look, it will come down to whether you have the land available or not. I have 55ish hectares owned. Build a summer parlour on the outfarm and all of that is a grazing platform.
    55 x 3.5 (mooted stocking rate per ha on grazing platform) = 192.5 cows.
    A savage amount of dairy farms around here have significant out farms. The boom would continue for parlour manufacturers.

    You misunderstand the concept. Since quota's ceased any time any limitations were put on expansion dairy farmers rented more land to solve nitrates issues. While they have obeyed the 250 kgsN/ HA the number of cows on milking platforms have remained the same or increased. Look at the reaction to the increase is of dairy cows to 89 kgs of N. Rent more land.

    Milking platform limitations will be exactly that. At 3.5 cows / HA that is equivalent to 350kgs N/ HA. The limit will be on the milking platform. In you case the limit be to which the ever platform you choose. To carry on any higher stocking rate if it is allowed will mean cows will have to be housed. This may mean housing part of the herd or maybe housing at night. The slurry will have to be exported off the platform to external ground. Essentially this will probably mean that it will not be economical to exceed stocking rate.

    It was interesting that last year we heard that the eye in the sky would be used to monitor GLAS schemes such as low input pasture and traditional meadow for compliance with rules. Modern satellite camera technology would be able to count the cows in a paddock.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,453 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    dh1985 wrote: »
    That might be option. Add 50% tax to the price of flights might disincentivise air travel. This would also mean adding say 20% to the cost of a litre of milk or 2euro to a steak. Agriculture accounts for one third of carbon emissions in ireland. We can argue that food produced here is more enviromentally friendly than in the Amazon or wherever but policy makers wont care. Unfortunately agriculture doesn't hold the same importance as it once did in this country and I cant see any government turning a blind eye to agri. Political parties in this country are more interested in what's happening inside the m50 and other large urban centres than outside.

    Why add a carbon tax on milk or steak?

    Microsoft this week paid over $500,000 to an Australian cattle station in exchange to use their carbon credit of 40,000 tons of sequestered carbon.

    In this country non farmers beliger farmers for carbon usage on faulty accounting figures that will continue to be used for years while ignoring soil sequestration through grazing. Farmers never got a fair deal in the first place.

    The rest of the world gets on with their business looks at the science, looks at the carbon, looks to see how it can be improved on, educates those who can make a change.
    What happens here?
    Cows bad. Beef bad. Farmers bad.
    All the while they're booking their holidays to Cairo or Abu Dhabi.

    New Zealand proclaims they're the most carbon neutral dairy farmers in the world and the Irish non farmers here attack them for it.
    Same in Europe. Ireland and Austria are the most carbon neutral in milk production and they are castigated for it.
    You can't win with the Irish.
    Unfortunately it's the Irish non farmers are among the highest carbon users in the world and I say non farmers as farming is THE ONLY industry in the world that can sequester carbon with the bonus of providing sustenance for the human race.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,462 ✭✭✭Grueller


    You misunderstand the concept. Since quota's ceased any time any limitations were put on expansion dairy farmers rented more land to solve nitrates issues. While they have obeyed the 250 kgsN/ HA the number of cows on milking platforms have remained the same or increased. Look at the reaction to the increase is of dairy cows to 89 kgs of N. Rent more land.

    Milking platform limitations will be exactly that. At 3.5 cows / HA that is equivalent to 350kgs N/ HA. The limit will be on the milking platform. In you case the limit be to which the ever platform you choose. To carry on any higher stocking rate if it is allowed will mean cows will have to be housed. This may mean housing part of the herd or maybe housing at night. The slurry will have to be exported off the platform to external ground. Essentially this will probably mean that it will not be economical to exceed stocking rate.

    It was interesting that last year we heard that the eye in the sky would be used to monitor GLAS schemes such as low input pasture and traditional meadow for compliance with rules. Modern satellite camera technology would be able to count the cows in a paddock.

    Dont misunderstand the concept. By having a parlour on an out block it is also part of your milking platform. A milking platform is ground cows can graze while in milk.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 625 ✭✭✭dh1985


    Why add a carbon tax on milk or steak?

    Microsoft this week paid over $500,000 to an Australian cattle station in exchange to use their carbon credit of 40,000 tons of sequestered carbon.

    In this country non farmers beliger farmers for carbon usage on faulty accounting figures that will continue to be used for years while ignoring soil sequestration through grazing. Farmers never got a fair deal in the first place.

    The rest of the world gets on with their business looks at the science, looks at the carbon, looks to see how it can be improved on, educates those who can make a change.
    What happens here?
    Cows bad. Beef bad. Farmers bad.
    All the while they're booking their holidays to Cairo or Abu Dhabi.

    New Zealand proclaims they're the most carbon neutral dairy farmers in the world and the Irish non farmers here attack them for it.
    Same in Europe. Ireland and Austria are the most carbon neutral in milk production and they are castigated for it.
    You can't win with the Irish.
    Unfortunately it's the Irish non farmers are among the highest carbon users in the world and I say non farmers as farming is THE ONLY industry in the world that can sequester carbon with the bonus of providing sustenance for the human race.

    Not going to get into the metrics on carbon counting or the specifics of soil sequestration with you say my name as I dont have the knowledge on it but would the same hectare of ground not sequester the same amount of carbon stocked at 2cows/ha as 4cows/ha. And cut back on the bags of CAN. I am a farmer myself incase you think I am one fo the irish non farmers as per your post above and maybe I am playing devils advocate here but I personally think farmers have their heads in the sand if they think agriculture will get a free pass with regards climate change policy


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,426 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    Whatever the social or environmental costs, successive Irish Governments have rarely acted against private enterprise.

    Banking crisis
    Housing/homeless crisis
    Public health crisis
    Beef tribunal and Larry
    Apple tax bill
    Etc

    To address the above would impact private business in Government eyes. You could argue the toss for and against these cases but the common factor is the Irish Government (whether it’s FG or FF led) either supports private enterprises or acts only when it is forced to.

    This is a bad thing or a good thing, depending on which side you were born on. But it’s hard to see the Government reducing dairy production unless it is forced to by the EU. And even then, it’ll fight it to the last.

    Trading as Sullivan’s Farm on YouTube



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,526 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Grueller wrote: »
    Dont misunderstand the concept. By having a parlour on an out block it is also part of your milking platform. A milking platform is ground cows can graze while in milk.

    Yes you can do that but you will be milking on both platforms at the same time if you are stocked above the rate per landbank.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 790 ✭✭✭richie123


    Whatever the social or environmental costs, successive Irish Governments have rarely acted against private enterprise.

    Banking crisis
    Housing/homeless crisis
    Public health crisis
    Beef tribunal and Larry
    Apple tax bill
    Etc

    To address the above would impact private business in Government eyes. You could argue the toss for and against these cases but the common factor is the Irish Government (whether it’s FG or FF led) either supports private enterprises or acts only when it is forced to.

    This is a bad thing or a good thing, depending on which side you were born on. But it’s hard to see the Government reducing dairy production unless it is forced to by the EU. And even then, it’ll fight it to the last.

    Don't underestimate greta thunberg and her followers.
    They're hell bent on reducing emissions and that unfortunately includes livestock reduction.
    The eu will bring it in its only a matter of time.
    When this pandemic is over the narrative will quickly revert back to climate action


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,453 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    dh1985 wrote: »
    Not going to get into the metrics on carbon counting or the specifics of soil sequestration with you say my name as I dont have the knowledge on it but would the same hectare of ground not sequester the same amount of carbon stocked at 2cows/ha as 4cows/ha. And cut back on the bags of CAN. I am a farmer myself incase you think I am one fo the irish non farmers as per your post above and maybe I am playing devils advocate here but I personally think farmers have their heads in the sand if they think agriculture will get a free pass with regards climate change policy
    The 4cows/ha believe it or not would sequester more carbon.
    By all virtue of their sh1t. The more sh1t on the ground the more carbon rich food that's feeding the soil and carbon in the soil.
    But it's all dependent.
    It's all dependent how much fossil fuel is used to produce that cows food and fossil fuel used in that cows lifecycle to produce milk or beef.
    Same goes for all the other farming sectors. But if you till the soil you release the carbon again. Yet nobody outside of farming sees an issue with tilling. It's cows they hear as bad.

    Personally I don't think farmers have their heads in the sand. Well not the ones I know. I believe lots of non farmers do though. They want to ride agriculture in this country like an ass while not acknowledging that emissions in agriculture have decreased. And still won't acknowledge that agriculture is not the yoke around their neck on carbon emissions like they claim here but any country in the world give their left teeth to have their largest industry as agriculture as they know, I'll say it again the only industry that can be not neutral but negative.

    We are in a blessed position as a country in the world.
    We'll finally catch up. Then we'll make progress.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,526 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Whatever the social or environmental costs, successive Irish Governments have rarely acted against private enterprise.

    Banking crisis
    Housing/homeless crisis
    Public health crisis
    Beef tribunal and Larry
    Apple tax bill
    Etc

    To address the above would impact private business in Government eyes. You could argue the toss for and against these cases but the common factor is the Irish Government (whether it’s FG or FF led) either supports private enterprises or acts only when it is forced to.

    This is a bad thing or a good thing, depending on which side you were born on. But it’s hard to see the Government reducing dairy production unless it is forced to by the EU. And even then, it’ll fight it to the last.

    The government id caught in different ways. Yes if it had the choice it would let it rip. However we have to get our emissions down. Now Ireland may be able to prove that grazing cattle are lower carbon and that our hedgerows sequester carbon. However any reset will only happen in 5-10years time. In the meantime it must work with the present carbon ratings. Lads have short memories in the late noughies the then Government was going to sell agri down the drain to allow building development to continue. The downturn after that actually reduced limits so it only started to become an issue in the last 2-3 years.

    From a green house gas perceptive we cannot continue with dairy expansion. The minister says as much in this . He is constantly on about a stable herd. How do you put a stable herd in place.
    https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/minister-on-dairy-expansion-ag-climatise-based-on-premise-of-stable-herd/

    The only way you put a stable herd in place is by stocking limits unless you bring back milk quota's. However that would stop all new entrants.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,880 ✭✭✭green daries


    Birdnuts wrote: »
    Well they've kicked off big time near my parents place in North Kildare with a massive upgrade of the Osberstown treatment plant that serves a big chunk of that region. ATM they seem to be prioritizing plants discharging to freshwater as that appears to be were pollution problems are most severe/urgent according to the latest EPA report.
    It took nearly a decade to build the last treatment plant in galway city 😳 it was obsolete capacity wise in the first year of construction
    That's from the engineers who were overseeing it


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,496 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    fossil fuels will be the big enemy in the next decade and anything ran on diesel will get it in the neck , while the global food production sector is strong at the moment , the energy sector is on its ar5e , this sector is by far the biggest contributor to climate change , not cows

    maybe farmers need to be more concerned about a massive hike in diesel levies than anything else , thats something the government can sell as most people now are open to the idea of electric cars etc , obviously no electric tractor option ( yet ) but will joe tax payer care about opposition to tractor diesel getting hit ?

    been reading some articles from the UK about farmers who built new sheds with solar panels on the roof , do the government grant aid that kind of building?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,630 ✭✭✭✭Reggie.


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    fossil fuels will be the big enemy in the next decade and anything ran on diesel will get it in the neck

    maybe farmers need to be more concerned about a massive hike in diesel levies than anything else , thats something the government can sell as most people now are open to the idea of electric cars etc , obviously no electric tractor option ( yet ) but will joe tax payer care about opposition to tractor diesel getting hit ?

    been reading some articles from the UK about farmers who built new sheds with solar panels on the roof
    Serious area on a shed roof. How to get the heat to a house the is the question. Insulation is only so good


  • Posts: 6,246 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The 4cows/ha believe it or not would sequester more carbon.
    By all virtue of their sh1t. The more sh1t on the ground the more carbon rich food that's feeding the soil and carbon in the soil.
    But it's all dependent.
    It's all dependent how much fossil fuel is used to produce that cows food and fossil fuel used in that cows lifecycle to produce milk or beef.
    Same goes for all the other farming sectors. But if you till the soil you release the carbon again. Yet nobody outside of farming sees an issue with tilling. It's cows they hear as bad.

    Personally I don't think farmers have their heads in the sand. Well not the ones I know. I believe lots of non farmers do though. They want to ride agriculture in this country like an ass while not acknowledging that emissions in agriculture have decreased. And still won't acknowledge that agriculture is not the yoke around their neck on carbon emissions like they claim here but any country in the world give their left teeth to have their largest industry as agriculture as they know, I'll say it again the only industry that can be not neutral but negative.

    We are in a blessed position as a country in the world.
    We'll finally catch up. Then we'll make progress.

    Whats point in decreasing all these emissions,if they are poisioning every river in the country either though



    Land is saturated around here and lads are throwing out slurry last fortnight,as they havnt enough storage/capacity with all the rain aswell,thats only going one place

    I could see lads being required to increase slurry storage to having capacity for 9 months per cow,


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 790 ✭✭✭richie123


    Whats point in decreasing all these emissions,if they are poisioning every river in the country either though



    Land is saturated around here and lads are throwing out slurry last fortnight,as they havnt enough storage/capacity with all the rain aswell,thats only going one place

    I could see lads being required to increase slurry storage to having capacity for 9 months per cow,

    Its methane emissions that's the problem.
    Cattle produce a huge amount of it and its 20 times more harmful than carbon emissions.
    Livestock reduction in numbers is coming whether we like it or not.


  • Posts: 6,246 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    richie123 wrote: »
    Its methane emissions that's the problem.
    Cattle produce a huge amount of it and its 20 times more harmful than carbon emissions.
    Livestock reduction in numbers is coming whether we like it or not.

    these methane emissions is greatest load of sh1te i ever heard,lads thinking few cows in ireland are resoonsible for warming the plannet are engaging in a weird form of diverion argueing,obv its heavy industry is multiple more responsible



    I feel the greens,have really lost the plot on this,i remember growing up,they argueing on water quality etc,highly reasonable and attainable objectives (it pisses me off lads spreading slurry before rain and on saturated land and the excessive spreading of fertilizer)


    ....reducing irish herd,talking about cows/grass haveing carbon sequence is utterly delusional ,when wuhan has a higher carbon footprint than the entire island and china has zero commitment to reducing its output


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,225 ✭✭✭charolais0153


    Whats point in decreasing all these emissions,if they are poisioning every river in the country either though



    Land is saturated around here and lads are throwing out slurry last fortnight,as they havnt enough storage/capacity with all the rain aswell,thats only going one place

    I could see lads being required to increase slurry storage to having capacity for 9 months per cow,

    Was at a pig farm a month ago and he had over 30 weeks storage


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 790 ✭✭✭richie123


    these methane emissions is greatest load of sh1te i ever heard,lads thinking few cows in ireland are resoonsible for warming the plannet are engaging in a weird form of diverion argueing,obv its heavy industry is multiple more responsible



    I feel the greens,have really lost the plot on this,i remember growing up,they argueing on water quality etc,highly reasonable and attainable objectives (it pisses me off lads spreading slurry before rain and on saturated land and the excessive spreading of fertilizer)


    ....reducing irish herd,talking about cows/grass haveing carbon sequence is utterly delusional ,when wuhan has a higher carbon footprint than the entire island and china has zero commitment to reducing its output

    Agree with you to a certain extent re pollution and emissions in far flung places.
    But methane is the big problem with cows its a highy potent gas. As well as nitrates and water quality.
    I'm just stating whats likely to happen here in the next few years.
    Remember we're the good boys in the class.
    Bolsanaro will help us out though,when we've our emissions s target met and the national herd well cut back.
    Out of sight and out of mind.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,429 ✭✭✭Tonynewholland


    these methane emissions is greatest load of sh1te i ever heard,lads thinking few cows in ireland are resoonsible for warming the plannet are engaging in a weird form of diverion argueing,obv its heavy industry is multiple more responsible



    I feel the greens,have really lost the plot on this,i remember growing up,they argueing on water quality etc,highly reasonable and attainable objectives (it pisses me off lads spreading slurry before rain and on saturated land and the excessive spreading of fertilizer)


    ....reducing irish herd,talking about cows/grass haveing carbon sequence is utterly delusional ,when wuhan has a higher carbon footprint than the entire island and china has zero commitment to reducing its output

    The greens changed their minds on halving the national herd when it came to it. Ireland is way to reliant on international companies I can’t see the government shutting down an industry that keeps rural Ireland ticking over. It would be like shooting yourself in both feet


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,453 ✭✭✭✭Say my name




    Land is saturated around here and lads are throwing out slurry last fortnight,as they havnt enough storage/capacity with all the rain aswell,thats only going one place

    I could see lads being required to increase slurry storage to having capacity for 9 months per cow,

    You'd want storage from October to March by right.
    I wouldn't make it mandatory yet but if I was in power or advisory like teagasc I would be making sounds about it that's it's in everyone's best interest to make best use of that manure and save on chemical fertilizer.

    https://www.fwi.co.uk/livestock/slurry-and-manure-management/how-slurry-inoculants-helped-halve-farmer-fertiliser-use


  • Posts: 4,503 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    richie123 wrote: »
    Agree with you to a certain extent re pollution and emissions in far flung places.
    But methane is the big problem with cows its a highy potent gas. As well as nitrates and water quality.
    I'm just stating whats likely to happen here in the next few years.
    Remember we're the good boys in the class.
    Bolsanaro will help us out though,when we've our emissions s target met and the national herd well cut back.
    Out of sight and out of mind.

    Been a while since I've been bothered to listen to the methane side of things, afaicr methane lasts for ten years, then transforms into carbon dioxide. Yes, methane is more damaging, but it's on a cycle cow-methane-co2, so it's not accumulating itself. The co2 can be dealt with by what I'm constantly banging on about management. It's, pardon the pun, bull**** policy to blame the animal, it's the management of animals that's at fault. That, to be honest, is peoples fault. Where's the bunker?

    Fossil fuels are new carbon, they've been locked away for however many years but man has decided with the help of technology (beware solutions involving technology) to extract this new carbon, burn it and add it to the atmosphere or **** around with it and create problems like artificial fertiliser or other crap causing pollution issues in water.

    Change mindset and the change in management will follow of it's own accord.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,429 ✭✭✭Tonynewholland


    You'd want storage from October to March by right.
    I wouldn't make it mandatory yet but if I was in power or advisory like teagasc I would be making sounds about it that's it's in everyone's best interest to make best use of that manure and save on chemical fertilizer.

    https://www.fwi.co.uk/livestock/slurry-and-manure-management/how-slurry-inoculants-helped-halve-farmer-fertiliser-use

    I agree about the storage. In around 2006 you could write off 50% of the cost of building new slurry storage in one year it was a great way of putting tanks in place on farms.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,106 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    Been a while since I've been bothered to listen to the methane side of things, afaicr methane lasts for ten years, then transforms into carbon dioxide. Yes, methane is more damaging, but it's on a cycle cow-methane-co2, so it's not accumulating itself. The co2 can be dealt with by what I'm constantly banging on about management. It's, pardon the pun, bull**** policy to blame the animal, it's the management of animals that's at fault. That, to be honest, is peoples fault. Where's the bunker?

    Fossil fuels are new carbon, they've been locked away for however many years but man has decided with the help of technology (beware solutions involving technology) to extract this new carbon, burn it and add it to the atmosphere or **** around with it and create problems like artificial fertiliser or other crap causing pollution issues in water.

    Change mindset and the change in management will follow of it's own accord.

    The problem is that it's in big business's interest to demonize agriculture. Food companies make much better profits on plant food and then you have data centres, throwaway tech/fashion and any number of other sectors looking for distraction from their own terrible records


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  • Posts: 4,503 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The problem is that it's in big business's interest to demonize agriculture. Food companies make much better profits on plant food and then you have data centres, throwaway tech/fashion and any number of other sectors looking for distraction from their own terrible records

    Yes sure they do, but that doesn't solve agriculture's own issues, merely deflects from them. Either those issues get addressed by farmers for farmers, or farmers allow the space for other lobby groups to influence legislation.

    The latter seems to be the strategy.


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