What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

landofthetree · 31-01-2021 11:38AM

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Are you aware of the UKs handling of the pandemic for the past year has been absolutely disastrous; refusal to lockdown early on (including Boris telling everyone he was going to continue shaking hands doing irreparable damage to social distancing messaging), inability to order PPE resulting in contracts being handed out under very suspicious circumstances, tried to centralise all testing without capacity to handle it and a resources wasted on failed posted tests, their tracing app was another epic failure even though they had been told they were pursuing a system which wouldn't work, a senior government advisor travelled the country during their main lockdown yet suffered no consequences, and lots of dodgy contracts in between.

They may have good vaccination figures now but it is too early to judge anything. They are pursuing a dosing regime against manufacturers recommendations which could lessen the effectiveness of the programme.

They also have a terrible death toll despite taking steps to limit the official death figures (only counting deaths within 28 days of a positive test). If you are going down that road, overall their record here would suggest they care less about their citizens than the EU.

The EU doesnt care about its citizens.

https://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/europe-s-vaccine-disaster-commission-president-ursula-von-der-leyen-seeking-to-duck-responsibility-a-1197547d-6219-4438-9d69-b76e64701802-amp?__twitter_impression=true

Europe is facing a vaccine disaster. Whereas countries like Israel, Britain and the United States. are quickly moving ahead with vaccinations, the EU is reeling from a string of setbacks. First, U.S. pharmaceutical giant Pfizer and its German partner BioNTech informed Brussels that it would be delivering far less vaccine than planned in the coming weeks. Then, the company AstraZeneca said it would only be delivering 31 million doses of its vaccine by the end of March instead of the 80 million Europe had been expecting. And again, the Commission was caught completely off guard.

Since then, frustration and anger has been growing across the EU. Europe, one of the most affluent regions in the world, is proving to be unable to quickly protect its citizens from a deadly disease, while other countries are showing how it is done.

And the boss is nowhere to be found.

landofthetree · 31-01-2021 11:41AM

Donald Trump wrote: »

hmmmm. I wouldn't be too complimentary of the Israeli's in relation to Covid

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/03/palestinians-excluded-from-israeli-covid-vaccine-rollout-as-jabs-go-to-settlers

:rolleyes:

The Palestinian authority went with the Russian vaccine,
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/covid-palestine-vaccine-russia-sputnik-first

landofthetree · 31-01-2021 11:45AM

Sanjuro wrote: »

The notion that the US and UK in particular care about their citizens is beyond laughable.

Highest deaths per capita in the world=Belgium.

Germang broke the rules to get itself more vaccines. To hell with the Greeks one German official said.

Donald Trump · 31-01-2021 11:46AM

landofthetree wrote: »

:rolleyes:

The Palestinian authority went with the Russian vaccine,
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/covid-palestine-vaccine-russia-sputnik-first

Why wouldn't they? The Israeli's weren't helping them were they? They have to get it from somewhere and if the Russians will step in and help them then well done to the Russians.

Happy to block general supplies to Palestine ..... except of course to the Israeli settlers living in illegally occupied land.......it's ok to send it there to them then!

Doc07 · 31-01-2021 11:49AM

landofthetree wrote: »

The EU dont care about their citizens.

The US,UK and Israel do.

Thats the bottom line.

That’s one of the best pieces of satire I’ve seen written down

Pete_Cavan · 31-01-2021 11:51AM

landofthetree wrote: »

The EU doesnt care about its citizens.

https://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/europe-s-vaccine-disaster-commission-president-ursula-von-der-leyen-seeking-to-duck-responsibility-a-1197547d-6219-4438-9d69-b76e64701802-amp?__twitter_impression=true

Europe is facing a vaccine disaster. Whereas countries like Israel, Britain and the United States. are quickly moving ahead with vaccinations, the EU is reeling from a string of setbacks. First, U.S. pharmaceutical giant Pfizer and its German partner BioNTech informed Brussels that it would be delivering far less vaccine than planned in the coming weeks. Then, the company AstraZeneca said it would only be delivering 31 million doses of its vaccine by the end of March instead of the 80 million Europe had been expecting. And again, the Commission was caught completely off guard.

Since then, frustration and anger has been growing across the EU. Europe, one of the most affluent regions in the world, is proving to be unable to quickly protect its citizens from a deadly disease, while other countries are showing how it is done.

And the boss is nowhere to be found.

So producers not meeting targets equals EU doesn't care about its citizens but UK government's litany of failures in every aaspect of pandemic response means they do, got it.

31-01-2021 11:58AM

mista11 wrote: »

If the Uk offered us the vaccine would you support getting it?

The Pfizer vaccine maybe, not that AstraZeneca rubbish.

landofthetree · 31-01-2021 12:01PM

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

So producers not meeting targets equals EU doesn't care about its citizens but UK government's litany of failures in every aaspect of pandemic response means they do, got it.

Belgium highest death rate in the world
Slovenia second
Uk 3rd
Italy 4th

EU countires doing no better. At least the UK has a vaccine plan.

is_that_so · 31-01-2021 12:04PM

A reminder from December about how well AstraZeneca has handled the whole vaccine development.

The Oxford-AstraZeneca effort held great promise to help arrest the pandemic. But a series of miscues caused it to fall behind in the U.S

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/08/business/covid-vaccine-oxford-astrazeneca.html

Sam Russell · 31-01-2021 12:07PM

landofthetree wrote: »

Belgium highest death rate in the world
Slovenia second
Uk 3rd
Italy 4th

EU countires doing no better. At least the UK has a vaccine plan.

They all have vaccine plans.

The UK plan is to ignore the instructions on the label and omit the requirement for a timely second dose.

Of course, it might work, but then again it might give rise to a second more virulent variant that will not work with the current vaccines (because that is what happens with inadequate vaccinations). They are quite prepared to go for an early win even if it is very risky.

They approved the AZ vaccine earlier than anyone else - the FDA have yet to approve it. More risky behaviour with a vaccine that had a number of bumps in the road during the trials.

landofthetree · 31-01-2021 12:18PM

Sanjuro wrote: »

The notion that the US and UK in particular care about their citizens is beyond laughable.

People vote with their feet.

Its why so many Irish people go to work and live in the US+UK instead of EU countries.

brickster69 · 31-01-2021 12:25PM

Various sources reporting on the doses the UK took from the EU. The finished product was made and sent from the UK to Germany to be finished & filled and then sent back from Germany to UK.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55838272

Elessar · 31-01-2021 12:26PM

So has there been any news regarding if AZ can get us the vaccine numbers originally promised?

What are they doing about production capacity/fixing the issues at the EU plants & how long will it take? I can't find any info about this, all the news is about the EU/Article 16 stuff.

is_that_so · 31-01-2021 12:27PM

landofthetree wrote: »

People vote with their feet.

Its why so many Irish people go to work and live in the US+UK instead of EU countries.

So nothing to do with the fact that they are English speaking, then?

XsApollo · 31-01-2021 12:28PM

landofthetree wrote: »

People vote with their feet.

Its why so many Irish people go to work and live in the US+UK instead of EU countries.

I’d say that more to do with the fact they speak the same language.
You are posting some sh*te.

jam_mac_jam · 31-01-2021 12:28PM

landofthetree wrote: »

People vote with their feet.

Its why so many Irish people go to work and live in the US+UK instead of EU countries.

I'd say that's people voting with their language.

hotmail.com · 31-01-2021 12:36PM

Does Ursula ever give interviews?

There is an ongoing impression that the EU is above criticism and above accountability.

IRISHSPORTSGUY · 31-01-2021 12:59PM

smellyoldboot wrote: »

By happenstance, ITV News ended up on the TV tonight at 10. The smugness, jingoism and vitriol on display by the newsreader and "experts" in relation to this was a sight to behold. Could not believe what I was watching. Put me in mind of Fox News in the US with their very biased slant on stories. EU/UK and by extension Irish/UK relations are going to get very very ugly.

Why do we as a nation watch British TV and then complain about British biased news?

Pete_Cavan · 31-01-2021 01:10PM

landofthetree wrote: »

Belgium highest death rate in the world
Slovenia second
Uk 3rd
Italy 4th

EU countires doing no better. At least the UK has a vaccine plan.

Death rates based on Covid-19 deaths reported by each country are not comparable due to countries recording deaths differently. The UK only including those who died within 28 days of a positive test will obviously skew their total down. The BBC even reported on this a few days ago (note the figure for Deaths over and above the usual number is 10 days behind Deaths within 28 days and they have been having >1,000 deaths per day so the official death toll is 10% under-reported);

Look at any data on excess mortality and you will see the UK's handling of the pandemic has been nothing short of an unmitigated disaster. Spain had the worst peak by the UK (or parts thereof) are not far behind and UK (or parts thereof) had a slower decline from peak. Spain was hit with the virus harder early on with little time to react, the UK had more time to react but refused (not just failed, actually refused) to do so. Your claim that the UK cares about its citizens while the EU doesn't is beyond farcical.

https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps#excess-mortality

https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/comparisonsofallcausemortalitybetweeneuropeancountriesandregions/januarytojune2020#relative-cumulative-age-standardised-mortality-rates

McGiver · 31-01-2021 01:31PM

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Death rates based on Covid-19 deaths reported by each country are not comparable due to countries recording deaths differently. The UK only including those who died within 28 days of a positive test will obviously skew their total down. The BBC even reported on this a few days ago (note the figure for Deaths over and above the usual number is 10 days behind Deaths within 28 days and they have been having >1,000 deaths per day so the official death toll is 10% under-reported);

Look at any data on excess mortality and you will see the UK's handling of the pandemic has been nothing short of an unmitigated disaster. Spain had the worst peak by the UK (or parts thereof) are not far behind and UK (or parts thereof) had a slower decline from peak. Spain was hit with the virus harder early on with little time to react, the UK had more time to react but refused (not just failed, actually refused) to do so. Your claim that the UK cares about its citizens while the EU doesn't is beyond farcical.

https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps#excess-mortality

https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/comparisonsofallcausemortalitybetweeneuropeancountriesandregions/januarytojune2020#relative-cumulative-age-standardised-mortality-rates

Yes. UK Covid death reporting is not as broad as in the EU.

Almost all EU countries have much broader criteria of covid death reporting. The outliers are Italy and Spain who do not include all (only some) care home deaths and I belive don't include suspected Covid. Belgium is the broadest in death reporting.

The criteria are mentioned on the ECDC website.

So while Belgium death toll is worse than UK per capita, I would question whether it really is if both countries use the Belgian broad criteria.

...Ghost... · 31-01-2021 01:42PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

They all have vaccine plans.

The UK plan is to ignore the instructions on the label and omit the requirement for a timely second dose.

Of course, it might work, but then again it might give rise to a second more virulent variant that will not work with the current vaccines (because that is what happens with inadequate vaccinations). They are quite prepared to go for an early win even if it is very risky.

They approved the AZ vaccine earlier than anyone else - the FDA have yet to approve it. More risky behaviour with a vaccine that had a number of bumps in the road during the trials.

I was thinking exactly this. Their plan puts the rest of the world at risk. If they are only giving a portion of the required dose, they are creating a serious risk of the virus mutating into a strain which defeats the vaccine.

TobyHolmes · 31-01-2021 01:49PM

what is the EU playing at? They do understand the sensitivity of the border but they twisted it to their own needs. #notimpressed

Dont blame Britian because they have their act together and negotiated a better contract. Their obligation is to the UK not to the EU.

Ive always been the number one fan of the EU - but this is a shambles and they left Ireland in a very precarious position.

McGiver · 31-01-2021 02:06PM

TobyHolmes wrote: »

Ive always been the number one fan of the EU - but this is a shambles and they left Ireland in a very precarious position.

How?

TobyHolmes · 31-01-2021 02:10PM

McGiver wrote: »

How?

tell me how they have not? and just to confirm precarious means - not in control of events.

31-01-2021 02:11PM

McGiver wrote: »

Yes. UK Covid death reporting is not as broad as in the EU.

Almost all EU countries have much broader criteria of covid death reporting.

Can you show some examples?

I know Russia, for example, only include deaths where an autopsy gives Covid 19 as the main cause of death, so the estimation is that their numbers are probably three times higher than the official figures.

I’ve seen nothing that details how Spain, Italy of even Ireland count numbers.

McGiver · 31-01-2021 02:15PM

TobyHolmes wrote: »

They do understand the sensitivity of the border but they twisted it to their own needs.

So the EU doesn't understand the sensitivity of the border and cares about its own needs (what are those???) and that's why the EU spent some 3 years demanding the UK agrees to the Northern Irish protocol first before even starting any free trade deal negotiations,exactly because of the sensitivity of the border and exactly because of Irish needs.

You can't really make up more stupid statement than the one you've made.

Note: the EU is "we" not "they". If you refer to the EU as "they" you're totally misunderstanding the reality and philosophy of the EU.

redarmyblues · 31-01-2021 02:17PM

is_that_so wrote: »

A reminder from December about how well AstraZeneca has handled the whole vaccine development.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/08/business/covid-vaccine-oxford-astrazeneca.html

AZ has mishandled the Oxford vaccine many times in its development (they are being sued in the US by a PERS over this), first time to do a vaccine I believe and the FDA is not near a decision on approving it. The actions of UVDL has given it a little cover when the facts at the moment are that the company can't scale up production.

TobyHolmes · 31-01-2021 02:18PM

McGiver wrote: »

So the EU doesn't understand the sensitivity of the border and cares about its own needs (what are those???) and that's why the EU spent some 3 years demanding the UK agrees to the Northern Irish protocol first before even starting any free trade deal negotiations,exactly because of the sensitivity of the border and exactly because of Irish needs.

You can't really make up more stupid statement than the one you've made.

Note: the EU is "we" not "they". If you refer to the EU as "they" you're totally misunderstanding the reality and philosophy of the EU.

you obviously didnt read what I wrote and just want to attack a statement you view not in line with your view.

I said the EU obviously understands the sensitivity of the issue but exploited it anyway - go back and read what I wrote. and take your anger elsewhere and respond to people's comments with the proper etiquette - go for a walk, read a book.

31-01-2021 02:18PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

I think they should send back any supplies that were paid for by Europe and produced in European factories but were sent to the UK instead of being stockpiled (as the EU-AZ contract intended).

I’d be interested in some clarification of this from someone in the pharma industry.

Is it as simple as “stockpiling”? These are pharma products that need to be kept at low temperature in a sterile environment. It’s not like you just stick them in boxes and pile them up in a warehouse.

We’re talking millions of doses here, how exactly do you stockpile them?

I would have thought the best solution would have been to ship them to the countries that are receiving them and let them build their own stocks, pretty much as Stephen Donnelly wanted to do, but was blocked by the Eu.

monkeybutter · 31-01-2021 02:24PM

Aegir wrote: »

I’d be interested in some clarification of this from someone in the pharma industry.

Is it as simple as “stockpiling”? These are pharma products that need to be kept at low temperature in a sterile environment. It’s not like you just stick them in boxes and pile them up in a warehouse.

We’re talking millions of doses here, how exactly do you stockpile them?

I would have thought the best solution would have been to ship them to the countries that are receiving them and let them build their own stocks, pretty much as Stephen Donnelly wanted to do, but was blocked by the Eu.

What are trying to say

The doses are small, it wouldn't take that much effort to store them, the EU love a stockpile

What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

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