What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

mista11

sameoldname wrote: »

But they're not offering that are they? They aren't offering anything at all and no one has asked them to either.

They have definitly had these dicussions about sharing vaccines behind the scenes, I would bet my house on it

It seams to me that if the EU had bullyed the UK into handing over the vaccine to them then you would be first in the queue, even if it was made in the UK but if they kindly offered to share it with the closet best neighbours, you would find some reason to be disingenuous about it

sameoldname

mista11 wrote: »

They have definitly had these dicussions about sharing vaccines behind the scenes, I would bet my house on it

It seams to me that if the EU had bullyed the UK into handing over the vaccine to them then you would be first in the queue, even if it was made in the UK but if they kindly offered to share it with the closet best neighbours, you would find some reason to be disingenuous about it

Well, you seem to already know exactly what the UK government think, and oddly enough, you already seem to know what I think. Makes me wonder why you even need to bother asking questions, sure you already know all the answers! Thanks for wasting our time though.

FileNotFound

mista11 wrote: »

They have definitly had these dicussions about sharing vaccines behind the scenes, I would bet my house on it

It seams to me that if the EU had bullyed the UK into handing over the vaccine to them then you would be first in the queue, even if it was made in the UK but if they kindly offered to share it with the closet best neighbours, you would find some reason to be disingenuous about it

Anything to back up all that typing. Or are you on the gin tonight?

NeuralNetwork

hotmail.com wrote: »

Britain to help us from May onwards with vaccines it's reported tonight.

Good news.

I would say if we are short of vaccines by even March and April I would eat my hat. There's a number of enormous orders from the European Commission. You're looking at teething problems with one supplier.

If you look at this another way, the UK struck very lucky with AstraZeneca. Had that vaccine not taken off, much as GSK didn't, they would have been in the queue for Pfizer and Moderna from the continent. The whole vaccine nationalism thing both from the EU and the UK is just creating unnecessary tensions.

I would suspect there'll be an entirely different scenario with the huge ramping up of Pfizer/BioNTech and Janssen being approved etc. The Pfizer order alone is for 600 million doses now.

Great if they want to offer to help, but we are not likely to be needing their spare supplies in May. If we do, the Commission would want to be handing in their resginations.

The way the Commission handled this was undiplomatic and totally unseemly and has more or less handed a media coup to the Brexiteers, not that it's even relevant at this stage and tripped straight over the Northern Irish border issue, seemingly without even being aware of it, which is shocking given how much delicate negotiation they had just put into it over the last number of years.

A dispute over a contract with a private company, for a vaccine that wasn't even approved until Friday evening, has somehow been blown into what was looking nearly like a trade war.

There's utterly no need for any of this - the EU has both the technical/manufacturing and financial resources to be very much world leading on this, yet have fumbled the ball at the start of the match. They really now need to get everything on track and quickly.

Everyone needs to calm down a bit and stop feeding tabloids.

Any more of this crazy stuff will just end up scoring own goals all over the place and undermining trust in the EU. I'm normally very pro EU and I think they did a decent job on protecting Irish interests in Brexit negotiations. I'll praise where praise is due but I'll also critique heavily where something's completely mishandled.

This was handled with all the subtly of a jack hammer to crack an egg.

Disappointing few days to say the least. It'll all blow over, but there are far less confrontational ways of resolving this.

Pete_Cavan

Why is everyone talking about the UK offering us the vaccine? If more becomes available than AZ have already indicated, then it is merely AZ getting closer to fulfilling (but still failing to meet) their contractual obligations to the EU. The UK is a purchaser in all this, just like the EU, they are not a supplier and don't control the supply (and if they did, that would be vaccine nationalism which they are telling us is an absolutely awful thing).

The only way the UK would be involved if is if they offered doses from their own stock, which is extremely unlikely to happen.

lawrencesummers

One thing is clear from all of this.

Once vaccinations are done and thing return to normal politicians don’t deserve a pay raise of any sort.

But guess what will happen.

fits

Editorial in the observer today is extremely critical of EU in all this.

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/31/the-observer-view-on-the-vaccine-dispute-with-brussels?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium=&utm_source=Twitter&__twitter_impression=true

Ficheall

fits wrote: »

Editorial in the observer today is extremely critical of EU in all this.

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/31/the-observer-view-on-the-vaccine-dispute-with-brussels?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium=&utm_source=Twitter&__twitter_impression=true

I'd agree the EU gaffed this week, but that editor seems like an awful dose.

Sweet.Science

When can we expect the first batch to arrive ?

lawred2

fits wrote: »

Editorial in the observer today is extremely critical of EU in all this.

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/31/the-observer-view-on-the-vaccine-dispute-with-brussels?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium=&utm_source=Twitter&__twitter_impression=true

It's an editorial. Posts on boards are a big collection of editorials. Don't think links to more editorials offers much.

lawred2

mista11 wrote: »

Extract from David Quinn - feels perfect for the above quote and this thread

"In Ireland we are oblivious to the level of discontent with Brussels elsewhere in Europe. Media coverage follows the commission’s line and blames AstraZeneca. It’s no wonder a new EU survey reveals no one is happier than the Irish with the EU’s response to the pandemic. The poll shows that 72 per cent of us are satisfied, compared with 45 per cent in Germany and 36 per cent in France. The level of satisfaction here is nothing more than a reflection of how woefully ill-informed we are.

The EU’s vaccine performance has been dire, and will cost further lives and livelihoods. The Irish government must do a better job of defending our interests. That might mean asking the British for surplus supplies. This should be considered, but probably won’t be, because we would have to swallow our national pride and breach EU solidarity.

For our government, indefinite lockdown may be preferable to annoying the European Commission, or not being seen to wear the EU jersey."

How/when would the UK have excess supplies?

joe40

mista11 wrote: »

They have definitly had these dicussions about sharing vaccines behind the scenes, I would bet my house on it

It seams to me that if the EU had bullyed the UK into handing over the vaccine to them then you would be first in the queue, even if it was made in the UK but if they kindly offered to share it with the closet best neighbours, you would find some reason to be disingenuous about it

We are not their closest best neighbours. Everything the UK does in relation to Ireland must benefit the UK first and foremost.
Nothing wrong with that, we as a country do the same.
The CTA may encourage UK to share vaccine here over other EU countries (I'm not saying it will happen) but rest assured anything the UK does in relation to Ireland will be for UK's benefit.

listermint

joe40 wrote: »

We are not their closest best neighbours. Everything the UK does in relation to Ireland must benefit the UK first and foremost.
Nothing wrong with that, we as a country do the same.
The CTA may encourage UK to share vaccine here over other EU countries (I'm not saying it will happen) but rest assured anything the UK does in relation to Ireland will be for UK's benefit.

Oh don't worry these people are spread all over the site. The notion that the UK always and does come in like a white horse to rescue Ireland. Like that time they 'bailed' us out with an above rate interest loan and wouldn't let us pay it back earlier.

The UK are our best friend's Ireland is a stupid nation. There's a whole bunch of columnists that subscribe to that ****e too.

is_that_so

fits wrote: »

Editorial in the observer today is extremely critical of EU in all this.

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/31/the-observer-view-on-the-vaccine-dispute-with-brussels?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium=&utm_source=Twitter&__twitter_impression=true

British media criticising the EU is hardly news, it's a daily event. Usually best ignored.

is_that_so

mista11 wrote: »

Extract from David Quinn - feels perfect for the above quote and this thread

"In Ireland we are oblivious to the level of discontent with Brussels elsewhere in Europe. Media coverage follows the commission’s line and blames AstraZeneca. It’s no wonder a new EU survey reveals no one is happier than the Irish with the EU’s response to the pandemic. The poll shows that 72 per cent of us are satisfied, compared with 45 per cent in Germany and 36 per cent in France. The level of satisfaction here is nothing more than a reflection of how woefully ill-informed we are.

The EU’s vaccine performance has been dire, and will cost further lives and livelihoods. The Irish government must do a better job of defending our interests. That might mean asking the British for surplus supplies. This should be considered, but probably won’t be, because we would have to swallow our national pride and breach EU solidarity.

For our government, indefinite lockdown may be preferable to annoying the European Commission, or not being seen to wear the EU jersey."

Woefully ill-informed here meaning people not reading his columns. If they are all as fact free as this, people have really not been missing out.

fits

is_that_so wrote: »

British media criticising the EU is hardly news, it's a daily event. Usually best ignored.

Not the guardian/observer.

is_that_so

fits wrote: »

Not the guardian/observer.

Eh, yeah they do, when it suits them. They have been swinging for them during this and their one line is the EU is to blame for this.

mean gene

Uk had a contract signed 3 months before the dithering Europe even recommended it we have to suck it up non story

mean gene

fits wrote: »

Not the guardian/observer.

Guardian publishing inaccurate vaccine data' all week not even worth cleaning sh1t off your shoes with

landofthetree

The EU dont care about their citizens.

The US,UK and Israel do.

Thats the bottom line.

Pete_Cavan

mean gene wrote: »

Uk had a contract signed 3 months before the dithering Europe even recommended it we have to suck it up non story

That old chestnut again. Read article 13.1 (e) of the contract, AZ confirm that they have no other contractual obligations which prevent them from fulfilling their contract with the EU. If they claim their contract with the UK is whats delaying them supplying the EU, they will get ruined.

McGiver

Melanchthon wrote: »

Your link say this

As part of the “advanced purchase agreement" with vaccine companies, the EU has invested €336 million ($408 million) to finance the production of AstraZeneca vaccines at four factories.

Where does it mention development?

Refer to the official sources rather than tabloids or derivative articles.

2.2.Advance Purchase Agreements via the Emergency Support Instrument

In order to support companies in the swift development and production of a vaccine, the Commission will enter into agreements with individual vaccine producers on behalf of Member States. In return for the right to buy a specified number of vaccine doses in a given timeframe and at a given price, part of the upfront costs faced by vaccines producers will be financed from the ESI. This will be done in the form of advance purchase agreements (APAs).

These agreements will be negotiated with individual companies according to their specific needs and with the aim of supporting and securing an adequate supply of vaccines. They will de-risk the necessary investments related to both vaccine development and clinical trials, and the preparation of the at-scale production capacity along the entire vaccine production chain which is required for a rapid deployment of sufficient doses of an eventual vaccine in the EU and globally. The conditions of the contract will reflect the balance between the prospect of the producer providing a safe and effective vaccine quickly and the investment needed to deploy the vaccine on the European market.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?qid=1597339415327&uri=CELEX:52020DC0245

The European Commission presented on 17 June a European strategy to accelerate the development, manufacturing and deployment of effective and safe vaccines against COVID-19. In return for the right to buy a specified number of vaccine doses in a given timeframe, the Commission would finance part of the upfront costs faced by vaccines producers in the form of Advance Purchase Agreements. Funding provided would be considered as a down-payment on the vaccines that will actually be purchased by Member States.

Since the high cost and high failure rate make investing in a COVID-19 vaccine a high-risk decision for vaccine developers, these agreement will therefore allow investments to be made that otherwise would simply probably not happen.

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_20_1438

hotmail.com

landofthetree wrote: »

The EU dont care about their citizens.

The US,UK and Israel do.

Thats the bottom line.

The US doesn't even have basic free health care for their poorer citizens. Give me a break.

McGiver

listermint wrote:

Oh don't worry these people are spread all over the site. The notion that the UK always and does come in like a white horse to rescue Ireland. Like that time they 'bailed' us out with an above rate interest loan and wouldn't let us pay it back earlier.

Yes and then I've been waiting for the invocation of the English Brexidiot/fascist/racist arch-cliché - THE BAD GERMANS. Oh yeah sorry it's been already mentioned as well here!

Given that only the English are genuinely obsessed with the Germans (which is pathetic in itself), it would be interesting to find out how do these trolls (or bots) originate (not only geographically but mentally).

Sanjuro

landofthetree wrote: »

The EU dont care about their citizens.

The US,UK and Israel do.

Thats the bottom line.

The notion that the US and UK in particular care about their citizens is beyond laughable.

Donald Trump

mista11 wrote: »

Just becuase you fund something does not give you the right over who gets the final product

Thats done in your production contract

They are two different things

People can't be changing the goalposts. One minute they say (perhaps not yourself) that it is ok for AZ to ignore EU contractual obligations because "UK funded the development" of the vaccine.

So they can't turn around then when you point out that the work was started (actually development was probably more or less complete) while they were still in the EU. And presumably after receiving a lot of EU money throughout the years building up their labs and people etc.


I am only pointing it out to those people who are trying to say that the UK funded X/Y/Z development

SteM

landofthetree wrote: »

The EU dont care about their citizens.

The US,UK and Israel do.

Thats the bottom line.

The US, ffs!

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/30/us-covid-vaccine-doses-biden-trump

Donald Trump

mista11 wrote: »

Silence is golden isnt it, tells far more than being open

ill answer your question then - i think the UK should release some of their current UK supply (not "more than it needs") earmarked for healtly young UK people with minute risk of serious infection and send that to europeans / Irish at risk of serious illness

Would you take it if they did?

I think they should send back any supplies that were paid for by Europe and produced in European factories but were sent to the UK instead of being stockpiled (as the EU-AZ contract intended).

Donald Trump

landofthetree wrote: »

The EU dont care about their citizens.

The US,UK and Israel do.

Thats the bottom line.

hmmmm. I wouldn't be too complimentary of the Israeli's in relation to Covid


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/03/palestinians-excluded-from-israeli-covid-vaccine-rollout-as-jabs-go-to-settlers

Pete_Cavan

landofthetree wrote: »

The EU dont care about their citizens.

The US,UK and Israel do.

Thats the bottom line.

Are you aware of the UKs handling of the pandemic for the past year has been absolutely disastrous; refusal to lockdown early on (including Boris telling everyone he was going to continue shaking hands doing irreparable damage to social distancing messaging), inability to order PPE resulting in contracts being handed out under very suspicious circumstances, tried to centralise all testing without capacity to handle it and a resources wasted on failed posted tests, their tracing app was another epic failure even though they had been told they were pursuing a system which wouldn't work, a senior government advisor travelled the country during their main lockdown yet suffered no consequences, and lots of dodgy contracts in between.

They may have good vaccination figures now but it is too early to judge anything. They are pursuing a dosing regime against manufacturers recommendations which could lessen the effectiveness of the programme.

They also have a terrible death toll despite taking steps to limit the official death figures (only counting deaths within 28 days of a positive test). If you are going down that road, overall their record here would suggest they care less about their citizens than the EU.