Why haven't Fine Gael dumped Leo?

Bobtheman · 29-01-2021 5:00pm #1

FG had a disastrous election. They lost somewhere around 13 seats but Leo is still there. As leader.
I appreciate he had a good crisis up to June but since then his performance and the Government's has been poor.
Why has there been no mention of a heave? Lack of an alternative.

rossie1977 · 29-01-2021 5:22pm

Martin was leader of FF in 2011 when they lost 51 seats...

MacronvFrugals · 29-01-2021 5:32pm

Who else represents the base like Leo though? With an added drop of social liberalism (although he was against repealing the 8th prior to it becoming untenable)

Itssoeasy · 29-01-2021 7:11pm

Well the other option the parliamentary party had when Edna kenny stepped down was Simon Coveney. Would he have been better than Leo Varadkar as Taoiseach ? If nothing else has changed bar coveney as Taoiseach would FG be liked better than they are now ? If not then why would FG feel any need to change ? And the non parliamentary party members voted for Simon coveney not Leo Varadkar.

29-01-2021 7:14pm

Because you can only fall upwards in Irish politics.

Brussels Sprout · 29-01-2021 7:15pm

rossie1977 wrote: »

Martin was leader of FF in 2011 when they lost 51 seats...

..and he became leader 1 month before that General Election when it was already clear they were going to get wiped out.

In contrast Varadkar was leader for nearly 3 years prior to the 2020 election. He owns that FG under-performance entirely.

I think there may have been some more questions asked except that Covid arrived the following month and the whole country weighed in behind him.

He has since burned a lot of political capital over that leaking incident. The fact that he survived that was a sign of his strength within the party but who knows what the long-term affects of that will be.

Dempo1 · 29-01-2021 7:25pm

It is a mystery really, utterly dislikable, arrogant and if weren't for SF I doubt he would have anything to say. Earlier his performance in the DAIL was just a rehash of the same mantra discussing SF"s performance in government up north. I'm sick of it, I couldn't give a Sh*** what happens up north, Leo seems to use the basket case the North is, to deflect attention from any and every bad (and there's a lot) decision FG have made under his leadership. He also needs to focus a little more on what's happening in the 26 counties, the one's he's supposed to be helping govern.

L1011 · 29-01-2021 9:25pm

Before December, there was an obvious reason to keep Coveney in his role and without other distraction.

Now that's over - would he actually be more successful with the public than Varadkar? That's the only reason to change.

There is no obvious other choice on their front bench. Harris is too young. As horrible as this being a reason, McEntee being about to go on maternity leave (to as much of a level of that as can be done, seeing as we don't have it for TDs/Ministers) would push her out of contention for a year or so. I don't think Donohue would want it, and I don't think Humphreys is experienced enough. Juniors and retirees (Bruton) are not going to be in contention

Bobtheman · 29-01-2021 9:35pm

Ultimately I think posters are right. Coveney would not increase FG support.
I think FG vote has held up(lately) mainly because of the fluid nature of Irish politics lately. A lot of middle class voters see FG as the only real opposition to SF but this vote could easily evaporate. It wouldn't want to be tested in a campaign.
FG have proved just as useless on health as every other party last 20 years.
On housing they took a dysfunctional market and made it worse.
Yes various iniatives have made some progress but as an outsider to the business I find it hard to judge if enough has been done. We haven't had a functional housing market since about 1998.

astrofool · 29-01-2021 10:31pm

Because he's the anti-SF, if you support SF, you probably don't like Leo, if you don't like SF, then you probably hold him in some regard (vs. Coveney, Harris etc.). He generally debates better than Martin, and can go toe to toe with MLM when needed.

In politics terms, he's fairly bland, but Ireland is doing well, hitting the high notes on equality, quality of life and jobs, so people will be happy to keep him in. If you're not a right leaning centrist, then you won't like him.

Jim2007 · 29-01-2021 10:39pm

Bobtheman wrote: »

FG had a disastrous election. They lost somewhere around 13 seats but Leo is still there. As leader.
I appreciate he had a good crisis up to June but since then his performance and the Government's has been poor.
Why has there been no mention of a heave? Lack of an alternative.

For the blatantly obvious reason - his party is satisfied and nobody wants to take him on!

Maybe a bit of reading up on political history and you’ll come to realize that loosing an election is not a reason for ditching a leader.

blanch152 · 30-01-2021 1:44am

Bobtheman wrote: »

FG had a disastrous election. They lost somewhere around 13 seats but Leo is still there. As leader.
I appreciate he had a good crisis up to June but since then his performance and the Government's has been poor.
Why has there been no mention of a heave? Lack of an alternative.

FG are in government for the third election in a row. That is unprecedented success for them.

They have never had an overall majority, they have always needed coalition partners, so nothing new in this government.

Not surprising that they have kept Leo in that circumstance.

y0ssar1an22 · 30-01-2021 1:45am

i'd say its because coveney is biding his time.

Bobtheman · 30-01-2021 11:42am

Jim2007 wrote: »

For the blatantly obvious reason - his party is satisfied and nobody wants to take him on!

Maybe a bit of reading up on political history and you’ll come to realize that loosing an election is not a reason for ditching a leader.

I suspect I know more political history than you. I do know that losing an election is not necessarily a case for dumping a leader but Im just amazed that nobody has questioned his leadership even. As stated in relation to housing its hard to know whats actually going on. What's working what's not But in health we have known the basic problems for years. The whole public sector in health needs a huge boot up the hole plus resources in key areas.
If you look back at FG-it dumped Dukes in 1990 despite the fact that the only election he contested as leader they gained seats.
There just doesn't seem to be any real soul searching in FG .

Eric Cartman · 30-01-2021 1:01pm

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

Who else represents the base like Leo though? With an added drop of social liberalism (although he was against repealing the 8th prior to it becoming untenable)

True, but people have voted for Leo resoundingly on ‘ill lower taxes, scrap the USC, the party for people who get up in the morning, welfare cheats cheat us all’ and all he delivered was social liberalism and more welfare.

Especially in the fallout from covid, where tax cuts are sadly off the table , its going to be very hard for leo to paint the public a picture of why they should give his FG another go.

Bobtheman · 30-01-2021 2:09pm

FG will be about 14/15 years in power next time.
They will be decimated unless at least housing is sorted.

Ash.J.Williams · 30-01-2021 2:10pm

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

Who else represents the base like Leo though? With an added drop of social liberalism (although he was against repealing the 8th prior to it becoming untenable)

He wasn’t a big supporter of gay marriage either

RandomViewer · 30-01-2021 2:14pm

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

i'd say its because coveney is biding his time.

I think his time has passed, unlikely to ever be leader now

Augme · 30-01-2021 2:18pm

RandomViewer wrote: »

I think his time has passed, unlikely to ever be leader now

If the next election doesn't go well for fine gael he is in a great position. There isn't much behind him. Pascal donohoe and Simon harris are about as good as it gets and I don't think either would challenge Coveney.

RandomViewer · 30-01-2021 2:24pm

Augme wrote: »

If the next election doesn't go well for fine gael he is in a great position. There isn't much behind him. Pascal donohoe and Simon harris are about as good as it gets and I don't think either would challenge Coveney.

He's been front of house for too long, Madigan is hovering in the shadows and ticks boxes like Varadkar

dh1985 · 30-01-2021 2:44pm

RandomViewer wrote: »

He's been front of house for too long, Madigan is hovering in the shadows and ticks boxes like Varadkar

Fine Gael supporters wouldn't even recognise Madigan on the tv if she was on it. I dont think she would have the political clout to become a party leader at this stage. She hasn't held a big ministry either. Very much a left field option and Coveney or Pascal are the two main options. Might not be too many volunteering to lead with the aftermath of Covid looming, if all this money needs repaying. FG might be looking for a sinn fein government to let them put up or shut up

RandomViewer · 30-01-2021 3:02pm

dh1985 wrote: »

Fine Gael supporters wouldn't even recognise Madigan on the tv if she was on it. I dont think she would have the political clout to become a party leader at this stage. She hasn't held a big ministry either. Very much a left field option and Coveney or Pascal are the two main options. Might not be too many volunteering to lead with the aftermath of Covid looming, if all this money needs repaying. FG might be looking for a sinn fein government to let them put up or shut up

https://m.facebook.com/JosephaMadiganFG/photos/pb.178623759006364.-2207520000../1622500254618700/?type=3
Hungry for power, ruthless, vicious, next FG leader

markodaly · 31-01-2021 12:28am

Bobtheman wrote: »

FG will be about 14/15 years in power next time.
They will be decimated unless at least housing is sorted.

Ah, but housing is under a FF remit now, so they will get the lump of the blame.
FF were giving out mad from the sidelines last year, but now they are finding it all a bit tricky. Out of the two FG have had a much much better start to being in government, where FF are still fighting among themselves, thinking its still 2002 where they ruled the roost.

Anyway, Leo is still there because the parliamentary party wants him there.
FG have been in power since 2011 and will end up being in power till about 2024/2025. Not a bad run to actually get things done, unlike other parties who prefer to shout from the sidelines.

As an aside, some people hate Leo for who and what he is, not what he does or his policies. Homophobic and xenophobic comments about him on social media are commonplace, and sure look at the amount of bandwidth people spend talking about him here on boards. Some people are genuinely obsessed with him

markodaly · 31-01-2021 12:31am

RandomViewer wrote: »

He's been front of house for too long, Madigan is hovering in the shadows and ticks boxes like Varadkar

Madigan, next leader of FG? Haha, you can get 16/1 odds on that.
Helen McEntee would be the clear female front runner, along with Simon, Paschal and Simon Harris.

screamer · 31-01-2021 12:35am

Never thought I’d say it, but I prefer Leo to me hole as Taoiseach. He’s to the point and clear, mightn’t like what he had to say but at least he says it. I would imagine he’s popular enough TBH within the party and I don’t see him being changed any time soon.

timeToLive · 31-01-2021 12:37am

screamer wrote: »

Never thought I’d say it, but I prefer Leo to me hole as Taoiseach. He’s to the point and clear, mightn’t like what he had to say but at least he says it. I would imagine he’s popular enough TBH within the party and I don’t see him being changed any time soon.

hasn't he been called out for inserting movie quotes into speeches?

Cerveza · 31-01-2021 12:38am

They can’t dump him, who else from their party is up to the gig. That tool Damien English was on radio one today a total embarrassment. He is like a one sentence muppet, the spread of the virus.

RandomViewer · 31-01-2021 12:40am

markodaly wrote: »

Madigan, next leader of FG? Haha, you can get 16/1 odds on that.
Helen McEntee would be the clear female front runner, along with Simon, Paschal and Simon Harris.

Coveney missed the bus
Donahoe just no so much inner turmoil
Harris ,can't see it
Mc Entee don't think this is a career for her
Madigan or Regina if she can get elected likely, FG want first female taoiseach before SF

Sunny Disposition · 31-01-2021 12:45am

Varadkar is quite popular and probably will remain so, he gave people some confidence during the early months of the pandemic. Got surprisingly little criticism after the leaked document, somehow it hasn’t overshadowed him.

RobAMerc · 31-01-2021 12:56am

markodaly wrote: »

As an aside, some people hate Leo for who and what he is, not what he does or his policies. Homophobic and xenophobic comments about him on social media are commonplace, and sure look at the amount of bandwidth people spend talking about him here on boards. Some people are genuinely obsessed with him

this is so true. I hate this fact but really its becoming quite obvious folks here in Ireland actually have a real issue with Leo for these two reasons. I remember reading someone claiming here on boards the man isnt white ffs !

I would dearly love to think ireland is now mature enough to have a gay son of an immigrant as its head of government, but sadly I think he is there because he is the gay son of an immigrant, and that is something that modern Ireland is ramming down the throat of the 1970's ireland a lot of people still live in.

Jinglejangle69 · 31-01-2021 1:05am

There is an irrationally strange hatred of Leo on social media and even on Boards in the current affairs section.

It's bizarre. He doesn't even do anything great or anything bad in my opinion.

But people are obsessed with him that they spend their time 24/7 ranting and raving about him.

Like a weird scapegoat for people's lives.

blanch152 · 31-01-2021 1:20am

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

There is an irrationally strange hatred of Leo on social media and even on Boards in the current affairs section.

It's bizarre. He doesn't even do anything great or anything bad in my opinion.

But people are obsessed with him that they spend their time 24/7 ranting and raving about him.

Like a weird scapegoat for people's lives.

Let's call a spade a spade.

Some people can't handle a gay man with Indian heritage being in charge of a purely Irish state, they think it somehow dilutes our Irish identity.

That is all over Twitter, and it spills in here too.

astrofool · 31-01-2021 1:21am

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

There is an irrationally strange hatred of Leo on social media and even on Boards in the current affairs section.

It's bizarre. He doesn't even do anything great or anything bad in my opinion.

But people are obsessed with him that they spend their time 24/7 ranting and raving about him.

Like a weird scapegoat for people's lives.

Because he's not Gerry Adams, sorry, Mary Lou, or whichever king or queen gets proclaimed leader of SF next.

markodaly · 31-01-2021 1:22am

RobAMerc wrote: »

this is so true. I hate this fact but really its becoming quite obvious folks here in Ireland actually have a real issue with Leo for these two reasons. I remember reading someone claiming here on boards the man isnt white ffs !

I would dearly love to think ireland is now mature enough to have a gay son of an immigrant as its head of government, but sadly I think he is there because he is the gay son of an immigrant, and that is something that modern Ireland is ramming down the throat of the 1970's ireland a lot of people still live in.

Yes, I would have to agree with most of this. Most Irish people wouldn't give damn about Leo and his background or his sexuality, but there are people who have a real problem with both, especially in the SF/Republican circle.

Many don't see him as Irish first and foremost, and him being gay has been used a few times from SF, even SF TD's in some ways to try and make some political point.

Remember, I hardly ever something remotely pertaining to a critique on policy, from these people and posters, it is always something personal, something he did, or tweeted, never about policy.

It does keep people angry I suppose, and anger can be useful politically especially in opposition, but as we have seen from SF TD's on Twitter and the 'secret' SF Facebook group, anger turns into outright abuse. Hard to reign it in, once you start poking that fire.

Beric Dondarrion · 31-01-2021 1:59am

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

There is an irrationally strange hatred of Leo on social media and even on Boards in the current affairs section.

It's bizarre. He doesn't even do anything great or anything bad in my opinion.

But people are obsessed with him that they spend their time 24/7 ranting and raving about him.

Like a weird scapegoat for people's lives.

IMHO, for many he’s an unlikeable politician because of his past actions and deeds. When FG were in opposition, he would pop up on whatever platform were willing to have him on and he would spout the usual contrarian and contradictory opinion that opposition TDs are supposed to.....even though the particular portfolio or brief had f**k all to do with him. It turned into a bit of a running joke tbh : education crisis get Leo on, housing issue, get Leo on, banking scandal, get Leo on etc etc. When he finally attained a position to do something about some of these “issues” he was totally unremarkable and found wanting ( what notable changes did he manage to make as minister for health??). You might think he was doing all that simply to raise his profile amongst the public with no real intention of actually doing anything about the issues he was constantly highlighting....

He also flip flopped on the issue of same sex marriage and really only came off the fence when he realized which way the wind was definitely blowing! And his “ not another red cent” proclamation about the bank bailouts will follow him to his last days in Irish politics for some. He’ll scuttle of to Europe someday, he’s ticked the Taoiseach box on his CV (as unremarkable as his tenure was), the Covid pandemic and Brexit were major events during it but let’s be honest apart from some truly cringeworthy pop culture references in his speeches and the fact that Coveney did most of the Brexit heavy lifting he didn’t do much as leader either.....

Augme · 31-01-2021 2:30am

RandomViewer wrote: »

He's been front of house for too long, Madigan is hovering in the shadows and ticks boxes like Varadkar

She's directed her bib too many times already to have a chance. The Maria Bailey incident would just be dug up again and no FGer wants that. Then comments like "normal people" are justing the icing in the cake. She is fairly toxic at this stage.

SouthWesterly · 31-01-2021 2:30am

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

There is an irrationally strange hatred of Leo on social media and even on Boards in the current affairs section.

It's bizarre. He doesn't even do anything great or anything bad in my opinion.

But people are obsessed with him that they spend their time 24/7 ranting and raving about him.

Like a weird scapegoat for people's lives.

He has shown he has no Integrity and will lie openly to cover his backside.

He would shaft anyone that's done the things he's done.

Jinglejangle69 · 31-01-2021 2:44am

SouthWesterly wrote: »

He has shown he has no Integrity and will lie openly to cover his backside.

He would shaft anyone that's done the things he's done.

I rest my case.

SouthWesterly · 31-01-2021 2:45am

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

I rest my case.

My dislike for him is very rational

smellyoldboot · 31-01-2021 2:46am

Bobtheman wrote: »

FG had a disastrous election. They lost somewhere around 13 seats but Leo is still there. As leader.
I appreciate he had a good crisis up to June but since then his performance and the Government's has been poor.
Why has there been no mention of a heave? Lack of an alternative.

Because he's brown and ghay. He knows damn well they can't be seen to dump him.

Good loser · 31-01-2021 2:53am

I like Leo in general, wish he had a slightly harder edge at times. That's difficult in Irish politics. He was unlucky in the timing of the last election.
Didn't FG subsequently reach about 34 % in the polls?; that would give FG 15 plus seats and return all the existing deputies. In these circumstances FG would be mad to dump him.
If ever he goes there are two outstanding replacements in Simon and Paschal.
With S Harris for another generation.

Wanderer78 · 31-01-2021 7:34am

Bobtheman wrote:

FG had a disastrous election. They lost somewhere around 13 seats but Leo is still there. As leader. I appreciate he had a good crisis up to June but since then his performance and the Government's has been poor. Why has there been no mention of a heave? Lack of an alternative.

He appeals to many, but conservatism as a whole, is also in big trouble, I can't think of who might replace him, but I'm not a conservative

Tyrone212 · 31-01-2021 7:38am

I personally think Fine Gael would do much better with Coveney as leader. He doesn't engage in all the pettiness and troll like stuff that Leo does. I think he's more likeable as a person.

Malcomex · 31-01-2021 8:11am

screamer wrote: »

Never thought I’d say it, but I prefer Leo to me hole as Taoiseach. He’s to the point and clear, mightn’t like what he had to say but at least he says it. I would imagine he’s popular enough TBH within the party and I don’t see him being changed any time soon.

I sort of agree with this

When pressed would give a straight answer to a question.

RobAMerc · 31-01-2021 9:29am

Beric Dondarrion wrote: »

IMHO, for many he’s an unlikeable politician because of his past actions and deeds. When FG were in opposition, he would pop up on whatever platform were willing to have him on and he would spout the usual contrarian and contradictory opinion that opposition TDs are supposed to.....even though the particular portfolio or brief had f**k all to do with him. It turned into a bit of a running joke tbh : education crisis get Leo on, housing issue, get Leo on, banking scandal, get Leo on etc etc. When he finally attained a position to do something about some of these “issues” he was totally unremarkable and found wanting ( what notable changes did he manage to make as minister for health??). You might think he was doing all that simply to raise his profile amongst the public with no real intention of actually doing anything about the issues he was constantly highlighting....

He also flip flopped on the issue of same sex marriage and really only came off the fence when he realized which way the wind was definitely blowing! And his “ not another red cent” proclamation about the bank bailouts will follow him to his last days in Irish politics for some. He’ll scuttle of to Europe someday, he’s ticked the Taoiseach box on his CV (as unremarkable as his tenure was), the Covid pandemic and Brexit were major events during it but let’s be honest apart from some truly cringeworthy pop culture references in his speeches and the fact that Coveney did most of the Brexit heavy lifting he didn’t do much as leader either.....

he is a politician, thats what they do. just because you decide to subject him to more scrutiny than others doesnt mean he is any worse.

SouthWesterly wrote: »

He has shown he has no Integrity and will lie openly to cover his backside.

He would shaft anyone that's done the things he's done.

Cerveza wrote: »

Others would want to be covering their backside.

smellyoldboot wrote: »

Because he's brown and ghay. He knows damn well they can't be seen to dump him.

thanks for proving me right folks.

Bobtheman · 31-01-2021 10:19am

markodaly wrote: »

Ah, but housing is under a FF remit now, so they will get the lump of the blame.
FF were giving out mad from the sidelines last year, but now they are finding it all a bit tricky. Out of the two FG have had a much much better start to being in government, where FF are still fighting among themselves, thinking its still 2002 where they ruled the roost.

Anyway, Leo is still there because the parliamentary party wants him there.
FG have been in power since 2011 and will end up being in power till about 2024/2025. Not a bad run to actually get things done, unlike other parties who prefer to shout from the sidelines.

As an aside, some people hate Leo for who and what he is, not what he does or his policies. Homophobic and xenophobic comments about him on social media are commonplace, and sure look at the amount of bandwidth people spend talking about him here on boards. Some people are genuinely obsessed with him

I think he is rather a boring individual. Occasionally he gets interesting when he takes truth serum but for the most part he comes across as a technocrat. You'd be hard pressed to name one radical policy to his name.
As for him being gay. I really couldn't care less if he'd been married three times and had a cocaine habit - if he got things done. Unfortunately a lot of Joe public decides who to vote for based on media appearances. Look at Eamon Gilmore for Ffs

beggars_bush · 31-01-2021 10:40am

He should stay away from social media and cut down on leaking stuff to the media

Because he's a GP I think he gets away with a lot of criticism

Wanderer78 · 31-01-2021 10:46am

beggars_bush wrote: »

He should stay away from social media and cut down on leaking stuff to the media

Because he's a GP I think he gets away with a lot of criticism

is he really a gp, or is it just what his pieces of papers say?

Beric Dondarrion · 31-01-2021 11:55am

RobAMerc wrote: »

he is a politician, thats what they do. just because you decide to subject him to more scrutiny than others doesnt mean he is any worse.
.

Of course that's what politicians do but in his case it was much worse - his constant rush to make that killer soundbite or media appearance, to be first with the populist view. To show how "hip^ and "cool" he is and how he is in touch with the common worker and their plight all came across as hollow in the end as ultimately he did nothing to help or change anything he claimed to be in support of. All style, no substance.

Tyrone212 · 31-01-2021 12:00pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

is he really a gp, or is it just what his pieces of papers say?

I never understood people who become Doctors but never act on it once they get their papers and go off and do whatever else but treat the sick. Same with that the radio presenter as well, I forget her name but she's a dose.

Jinglejangle69 · 31-01-2021 12:02pm

Tyrone212 wrote: »

I never understood people who become Doctors but never act on it once they get their papers and go off and do whatever else but treat the sick. Same with that the radio presenter as well, I forget her name but she's a dose.

Many people change careers through their lives.

What's there not to understand??

Why haven't Fine Gael dumped Leo?

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