Why haven't Fine Gael dumped Leo?

Bobtheman

FG had a disastrous election. They lost somewhere around 13 seats but Leo is still there. As leader.
I appreciate he had a good crisis up to June but since then his performance and the Government's has been poor.
Why has there been no mention of a heave? Lack of an alternative.

rossie1977

Martin was leader of FF in 2011 when they lost 51 seats...

MacronvFrugals

Who else represents the base like Leo though? With an added drop of social liberalism (although he was against repealing the 8th prior to it becoming untenable)

Itssoeasy

Well the other option the parliamentary party had when Edna kenny stepped down was Simon Coveney. Would he have been better than Leo Varadkar as Taoiseach ? If nothing else has changed bar coveney as Taoiseach would FG be liked better than they are now ? If not then why would FG feel any need to change ? And the non parliamentary party members voted for Simon coveney not Leo Varadkar.

Because you can only fall upwards in Irish politics.

Brussels Sprout

rossie1977 wrote: »

Martin was leader of FF in 2011 when they lost 51 seats...

..and he became leader 1 month before that General Election when it was already clear they were going to get wiped out.

In contrast Varadkar was leader for nearly 3 years prior to the 2020 election. He owns that FG under-performance entirely.

I think there may have been some more questions asked except that Covid arrived the following month and the whole country weighed in behind him.

He has since burned a lot of political capital over that leaking incident. The fact that he survived that was a sign of his strength within the party but who knows what the long-term affects of that will be.

Dempo1

It is a mystery really, utterly dislikable, arrogant and if weren't for SF I doubt he would have anything to say. Earlier his performance in the DAIL was just a rehash of the same mantra discussing SF"s performance in government up north. I'm sick of it, I couldn't give a Sh*** what happens up north, Leo seems to use the basket case the North is, to deflect attention from any and every bad (and there's a lot) decision FG have made under his leadership. He also needs to focus a little more on what's happening in the 26 counties, the one's he's supposed to be helping govern.

L1011

Before December, there was an obvious reason to keep Coveney in his role and without other distraction.

Now that's over - would he actually be more successful with the public than Varadkar? That's the only reason to change.

There is no obvious other choice on their front bench. Harris is too young. As horrible as this being a reason, McEntee being about to go on maternity leave (to as much of a level of that as can be done, seeing as we don't have it for TDs/Ministers) would push her out of contention for a year or so. I don't think Donohue would want it, and I don't think Humphreys is experienced enough. Juniors and retirees (Bruton) are not going to be in contention

Bobtheman

Ultimately I think posters are right. Coveney would not increase FG support.
I think FG vote has held up(lately) mainly because of the fluid nature of Irish politics lately. A lot of middle class voters see FG as the only real opposition to SF but this vote could easily evaporate. It wouldn't want to be tested in a campaign.
FG have proved just as useless on health as every other party last 20 years.
On housing they took a dysfunctional market and made it worse.
Yes various iniatives have made some progress but as an outsider to the business I find it hard to judge if enough has been done. We haven't had a functional housing market since about 1998.

astrofool

Because he's the anti-SF, if you support SF, you probably don't like Leo, if you don't like SF, then you probably hold him in some regard (vs. Coveney, Harris etc.). He generally debates better than Martin, and can go toe to toe with MLM when needed.

In politics terms, he's fairly bland, but Ireland is doing well, hitting the high notes on equality, quality of life and jobs, so people will be happy to keep him in. If you're not a right leaning centrist, then you won't like him.

Jim2007

Bobtheman wrote: »

FG had a disastrous election. They lost somewhere around 13 seats but Leo is still there. As leader.
I appreciate he had a good crisis up to June but since then his performance and the Government's has been poor.
Why has there been no mention of a heave? Lack of an alternative.

For the blatantly obvious reason - his party is satisfied and nobody wants to take him on!

Maybe a bit of reading up on political history and you’ll come to realize that loosing an election is not a reason for ditching a leader.

blanch152

Bobtheman wrote: »

FG had a disastrous election. They lost somewhere around 13 seats but Leo is still there. As leader.
I appreciate he had a good crisis up to June but since then his performance and the Government's has been poor.
Why has there been no mention of a heave? Lack of an alternative.

FG are in government for the third election in a row. That is unprecedented success for them.

They have never had an overall majority, they have always needed coalition partners, so nothing new in this government.

Not surprising that they have kept Leo in that circumstance.

y0ssar1an22

i'd say its because coveney is biding his time.

Bobtheman

Jim2007 wrote: »

For the blatantly obvious reason - his party is satisfied and nobody wants to take him on!

Maybe a bit of reading up on political history and you’ll come to realize that loosing an election is not a reason for ditching a leader.

I suspect I know more political history than you. I do know that losing an election is not necessarily a case for dumping a leader but Im just amazed that nobody has questioned his leadership even. As stated in relation to housing its hard to know whats actually going on. What's working what's not But in health we have known the basic problems for years. The whole public sector in health needs a huge boot up the hole plus resources in key areas.
If you look back at FG-it dumped Dukes in 1990 despite the fact that the only election he contested as leader they gained seats.
There just doesn't seem to be any real soul searching in FG .

Eric Cartman

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

Who else represents the base like Leo though? With an added drop of social liberalism (although he was against repealing the 8th prior to it becoming untenable)

True, but people have voted for Leo resoundingly on ‘ill lower taxes, scrap the USC, the party for people who get up in the morning, welfare cheats cheat us all’ and all he delivered was social liberalism and more welfare.

Especially in the fallout from covid, where tax cuts are sadly off the table , its going to be very hard for leo to paint the public a picture of why they should give his FG another go.

Bobtheman

FG will be about 14/15 years in power next time.
They will be decimated unless at least housing is sorted.

Ash.J.Williams

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

Who else represents the base like Leo though? With an added drop of social liberalism (although he was against repealing the 8th prior to it becoming untenable)

He wasn’t a big supporter of gay marriage either

RandomViewer

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

i'd say its because coveney is biding his time.

I think his time has passed, unlikely to ever be leader now

Augme

RandomViewer wrote: »

I think his time has passed, unlikely to ever be leader now

If the next election doesn't go well for fine gael he is in a great position. There isn't much behind him. Pascal donohoe and Simon harris are about as good as it gets and I don't think either would challenge Coveney.

RandomViewer

Augme wrote: »

If the next election doesn't go well for fine gael he is in a great position. There isn't much behind him. Pascal donohoe and Simon harris are about as good as it gets and I don't think either would challenge Coveney.

He's been front of house for too long, Madigan is hovering in the shadows and ticks boxes like Varadkar

dh1985

RandomViewer wrote: »

He's been front of house for too long, Madigan is hovering in the shadows and ticks boxes like Varadkar

Fine Gael supporters wouldn't even recognise Madigan on the tv if she was on it. I dont think she would have the political clout to become a party leader at this stage. She hasn't held a big ministry either. Very much a left field option and Coveney or Pascal are the two main options. Might not be too many volunteering to lead with the aftermath of Covid looming, if all this money needs repaying. FG might be looking for a sinn fein government to let them put up or shut up

RandomViewer

dh1985 wrote: »

Fine Gael supporters wouldn't even recognise Madigan on the tv if she was on it. I dont think she would have the political clout to become a party leader at this stage. She hasn't held a big ministry either. Very much a left field option and Coveney or Pascal are the two main options. Might not be too many volunteering to lead with the aftermath of Covid looming, if all this money needs repaying. FG might be looking for a sinn fein government to let them put up or shut up

https://m.facebook.com/JosephaMadiganFG/photos/pb.178623759006364.-2207520000../1622500254618700/?type=3
Hungry for power, ruthless, vicious, next FG leader

markodaly

Bobtheman wrote: »

FG will be about 14/15 years in power next time.
They will be decimated unless at least housing is sorted.

Ah, but housing is under a FF remit now, so they will get the lump of the blame.
FF were giving out mad from the sidelines last year, but now they are finding it all a bit tricky. Out of the two FG have had a much much better start to being in government, where FF are still fighting among themselves, thinking its still 2002 where they ruled the roost.

Anyway, Leo is still there because the parliamentary party wants him there.
FG have been in power since 2011 and will end up being in power till about 2024/2025. Not a bad run to actually get things done, unlike other parties who prefer to shout from the sidelines.

As an aside, some people hate Leo for who and what he is, not what he does or his policies. Homophobic and xenophobic comments about him on social media are commonplace, and sure look at the amount of bandwidth people spend talking about him here on boards. Some people are genuinely obsessed with him

markodaly

RandomViewer wrote: »

He's been front of house for too long, Madigan is hovering in the shadows and ticks boxes like Varadkar

Madigan, next leader of FG? Haha, you can get 16/1 odds on that.
Helen McEntee would be the clear female front runner, along with Simon, Paschal and Simon Harris.

screamer

Never thought I’d say it, but I prefer Leo to me hole as Taoiseach. He’s to the point and clear, mightn’t like what he had to say but at least he says it. I would imagine he’s popular enough TBH within the party and I don’t see him being changed any time soon.

timeToLive

screamer wrote: »

Never thought I’d say it, but I prefer Leo to me hole as Taoiseach. He’s to the point and clear, mightn’t like what he had to say but at least he says it. I would imagine he’s popular enough TBH within the party and I don’t see him being changed any time soon.

hasn't he been called out for inserting movie quotes into speeches?

Cerveza

They can’t dump him, who else from their party is up to the gig. That tool Damien English was on radio one today a total embarrassment. He is like a one sentence muppet, the spread of the virus.

RandomViewer

markodaly wrote: »

Madigan, next leader of FG? Haha, you can get 16/1 odds on that.
Helen McEntee would be the clear female front runner, along with Simon, Paschal and Simon Harris.

Coveney missed the bus
Donahoe just no so much inner turmoil
Harris ,can't see it
Mc Entee don't think this is a career for her
Madigan or Regina if she can get elected likely, FG want first female taoiseach before SF

Sunny Disposition

Varadkar is quite popular and probably will remain so, he gave people some confidence during the early months of the pandemic. Got surprisingly little criticism after the leaked document, somehow it hasn’t overshadowed him.

RobAMerc

markodaly wrote: »

As an aside, some people hate Leo for who and what he is, not what he does or his policies. Homophobic and xenophobic comments about him on social media are commonplace, and sure look at the amount of bandwidth people spend talking about him here on boards. Some people are genuinely obsessed with him

this is so true. I hate this fact but really its becoming quite obvious folks here in Ireland actually have a real issue with Leo for these two reasons. I remember reading someone claiming here on boards the man isnt white ffs !

I would dearly love to think ireland is now mature enough to have a gay son of an immigrant as its head of government, but sadly I think he is there because he is the gay son of an immigrant, and that is something that modern Ireland is ramming down the throat of the 1970's ireland a lot of people still live in.

Jinglejangle69

There is an irrationally strange hatred of Leo on social media and even on Boards in the current affairs section.

It's bizarre. He doesn't even do anything great or anything bad in my opinion.

But people are obsessed with him that they spend their time 24/7 ranting and raving about him.

Like a weird scapegoat for people's lives.