Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

sondagefaux · 28-01-2021 10:56pm

peter kern wrote: »

at the same time the min salary in geneva is now 22 euro per hour .
and the swiss farmer gets 52 cents per litre of milk and the german farmer gets 28 cents. so the high prices elevate the whole society.
the living standard in switzerland is higher than in germany so i dont think switzerland proves anything apart form the fact that you can have a working home agriculture that has really high prices and at least until 7 years ago most swiss where happy to pay for it .

Not so much since the Swiss Franc appreciated against the euro it seems...

The concrete road bridge that links the picturesque Swiss border town of Rheinfelden to its German twin across the Rhine has been unusually busy this year.

Weekend traffic jams have become commonplace, as price-conscious Swiss shoppers choke the crossing on their drive to the cheaper eurozone to stock up on goods that are often a third more expensive on their side of the border. A phenomenon the Swiss press have dubbed “franken-schock” has become so big that many in Switzerland fear the impact on the economy.

“I understand a single mother with three children wanting to get through to the end of the month,” says Kevin Kunz, owner of the Pajarola Herrenmode clothing boutique on the Swiss side of the river. “But it’s not just people short of money that are making the trips. Swiss people are losing jobs and this has a negative impact on our social system.”

...

This has exacerbated already sizeable price differences between Switzerland and the rest of Europe. At a mini-market in the Basel Bad station, a single Mars Bar costs SFr1.40. But just 15 minutes away at a supermarket in Germany, a six-pack of the same chocolate bar can be bought for €1.59 (SFr1.71).

While the comparison is not exact, research carried out by Preisbarometer, a price comparison company, found that Swiss supermarkets charged between 31-36 per cent more than French hypermarket Carrefour, and 33-39 per cent more than Kaufland, the German chain.

Swiss living close to the border have long gone grocery shopping in France or Germany, and taken advantage of lower prices for services such as dental care. This year, however, the strong franc has meant the Swiss are also shopping for bigger ticket items such as electrical goods and clothing abroad. The latest Swiss retail sales figures, for June, show a fall in turnover of 0.9 per cent compared with the same month last year.

Locals in Rheinfelden report that shoppers from cities such as Lucerne and Bern, about a 90-minute drive from the border, are increasingly journeying across the German border to shop.

https://www.ft.com/content/d346f25a-41d4-11e5-9abe-5b335da3a90e

sondagefaux · 28-01-2021 10:58pm

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

65% of British lorries crossing the Channel are empty:

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-01-28/majority-of-lorries-crossing-channel-to-france-are-empty-as-brexit-hits-trade

Exports must be falling rapidly.

sondagefaux · 28-01-2021 10:59pm

strandroad wrote: »

"It already operates a delivery warehouse in Rathcoole for Amazon Prime customers, which opened last year. But the Baldonnell deal would be its first proper order fulfilment centre where products are picked and packaged by Amazon staff."

In other words, the stock will already be in Ireland.

listermint · 28-01-2021 11:01pm

sondagefaux wrote: »

In other words, the stock will already be in Ireland.

There's no other words though... It says picked and packaged

Don't think that's other than obvious ðŸ˜œ

Question is will there be a .ie

28-01-2021 11:09pm

sondagefaux wrote: »

At a mini-market in the Basel Bad station, a single Mars Bar costs SFr1.40. But just 15 minutes away at a supermarket in Germany, a six-pack of the same chocolate bar can be bought for €1.59 (SFr1.71).

Might be the stupidest comparison I've ever seen. The shop around the corner sells Snickers for €1.20, Tesco sell 4 for €1.50. So what?

sondagefaux · 28-01-2021 11:21pm

listermint wrote: »

There's no other words though... It says picked and packaged

Don't think that's other than obvious &#55357;&#56860;

Question is will there be a .ie

Why not? Or a .eu...

A source speculated that any small Irish retailers struggling to ramp up their e-commerce and home delivery operations would welcome the move for Amazon to open an Irish fulfilment centre, as they could now just list all their stock on Amazon marketplace and use its logistics system.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/irish-amazon-customers-to-bypass-brexit-barriers-as-it-plans-local-fulfilment-centre-1.4470470

sondagefaux · 28-01-2021 11:25pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Might be the stupidest comparison I've ever seen. The shop around the corner sells Snickers for €1.20, Tesco sell 4 for €1.50. So what?

Perhaps, but up to 39% price differences between major supermarket chains is pretty steep.

No wonder people are prepared to drive 90 minutes to shop across the borders.

Back in the day, coaches would bring shoppers from Cork to Newry, way before motorways. :eek:

Akrasia · 29-01-2021 12:03am

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

65% of British lorries crossing the Channel are empty:

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-01-28/majority-of-lorries-crossing-channel-to-france-are-empty-as-brexit-hits-trade

That is completely insane and totally unsustainable

The UK trans continental hauliage industry is dead. An EU hauler can drop off stock in The Uk and collect a return consignment back to the EU. A UK haulier can only collect or drop off.

And they have nowhere near enough permits for the amount of goods that need to be transported

Akrasia · 29-01-2021 12:06am

listermint wrote: »

If that doesn't demonstrate the value and strength of the Irish market . And within weeks of brexit. Then I don't know what does.

Amazon.co.uk deliveries to Ireland have been ropey for years now with many items not available for delivery to Ireland. If we can get an Amazon.ie portal it will make things much easier

Whether that’s good for local businesses is another debate, but at least we’re in the EU which has shown plenty of willingness to stand up against monopolies and oligopolies in the past

kowloon · 29-01-2021 12:19am

sondagefaux wrote: »

Amazon is opening a full-blown fulfilment centre in Ireland. Goodbye Amazon.co.uk for Irish customers!

https://reactnews.com/article/amazon-commits-to-600000-sq-ft-for-first-irish-fulfilment-centre/

I've always moved between different Amazon sites anyway, .de, .fr and.es regularly had things cheaper than the UK site. I hope we won't be forced into using the .ie site/
That said, I have a new policy of buying from anyone else if they can match or undercut Amazon.

Akrasia · 29-01-2021 1:04am

kowloon wrote: »

I've always moved between different Amazon sites anyway, .de, .fr and.es regularly had things cheaper than the UK site. I hope we won't be forced into using the .ie site/
That said, I have a new policy of buying from anyone else if they can match or undercut Amazon.

The EU take a very dim view of price discrimination within the internal market. They only allowed price difference where there are genuine taxation or delivery charges

If there is a fulfillment center in Ireland then it should result in cheaper prices for Irish consumers

It should also allow Irish businesses easier access to the Amazon marketplace for sales into the EU

sondagefaux · 29-01-2021 1:28am

Akrasia wrote: »

The EU take a very dim view of price discrimination within the internal market. They only allowed price difference where there are genuine taxation or delivery charges

If there is a fulfillment center in Ireland then it should result in cheaper prices for Irish consumers

It should also allow Irish businesses easier access to the Amazon marketplace for sales into the EU

Here's an example. The owners of Steam and various game publishers sold activation keys for games in some EU countries that were much cheaper than in other EU countries.

To ensure the cheaper activation keys couldn't be used in the more expensive EU countries, the keys were geo-blocked from being used outside the cheaper EU countries.

The EU Commission took enforcement against the companies involved and forced them to end the price discrimination, and fined them.

A sale or promotion would have been fine, but not a permanent price difference for no reason.

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_21_170

joeysoap · 29-01-2021 2:17am

For what it’s worth. I have relatives who work ( or should I say are employed?) in Switzerland ( Basel) and who shop in France. They say it’s normal. Their wages are eye popping.

reslfj · 29-01-2021 2:39am

Akrasia wrote: »

That is completely insane and totally unsustainable

The UK trans continental hauliage industry is dead. An EU hauler can drop off stock in The Uk and collect a return consignment back to the EU. A UK haulier can only collect or drop off.

And they have nowhere near enough permits for the amount of goods that need to be transported

The TCA allows both EU and UK hauliers to get return consignments on the way back to the EU / UK. There are even some limited cabotage allowed in the TCA.

Permits for lorries are not limited to pre-EEC ECMT limits after signing the TCA.

Lars

PS Lots of other problems but please check the TCA before writing here :rolleyes:

reslfj · 29-01-2021 2:55am

joeysoap wrote: »

For what it’s worth. I have relatives who work ( or should I say are employed?) in Switzerland ( Basel) and who shop in France. They say it’s normal. Their wages are eye popping.

In late 2016 I talked to a man in Basel. He said: "We live in France. We shop in Germany and I work in Switzerland"

The difference in salaries and cost between CH and EU was made extreme when the the CHF increase its value by about 30% (in January 2015 iirc)
The Swiss financial and medical sectors and the need for a 'safe heaven' to move money and gold to, do distort the value of CFH.

Lars

sondagefaux · 29-01-2021 5:14am

reslfj wrote: »

The TCA allows both EU and UK hauliers to get return consignments on the way back to the EU / UK. There are even some limited cabotage allowed in the TCA.

Permits for lorries are not limited to pre-EEC ECMT limits after signing the TCA.

Lars

PS Lots of other problems but please check the TCA before writing here :rolleyes:

The reason trucks are going back empty is because truck drivers and freight companies don't want to have to get stuck in customs queues, at the risk of experiencing these problems:

Our reader Kamil shared his report with us, attaching the clip you can see above. His run from Poland to Great Britain happened without major difficulties and ended with unloading in Manchester. After that he loaded freight going back to Europe, but it took him a week longer than planned to get back there. Just a process of exiting the UK took 6 days, mostly spent on waiting for customs documentation. According to some estimates (source in Polish here), 80, or even 90% of British companies still have problems with customs. No wonder, that Kamil had a chance to meet drivers who were waiting to have their customs cleared for almost a fortnight.

Before he was finally allowed to leave for the port, not only custom formalities were finalized but also a quick COVID-19 tests. All drivers returning from Britain to France, Belgium or the Netherlands still have to be tested. And even though all those requirements were sorted well before even approaching Dover, the drive to the cost turned to be not easy either.

If Kamil was to use the Channel Tunnel, he would be able to drive straight towards the terminal. But he was to use the ferry, and Britons are doing everything to avoid having trucks queuing in Dover. This is why the signs directed his truck to Manston Airport – the very same, where thousands of drivers were forced to spend their Christmas last year.

At the airport, his truck received a green sticker for its windscreen and Kamil was told to wait in the queue to leave the airport. The trucks were released in small batches, so the queue was moving forward every 5 or 10 minutes. This took 6 hours, finally, also Kamil was free to go to Dover. He reached the port after 6 days of struggle with the formality to find an almost empty port that was handing tickets for the next available ferry.

The drivers who work solely in the European Union that can sound like some kind of fantasy. But those, who travel East from Poland can find some familiar elements. This is the best proof that the United Kingdom has become typical “third country”, and the Brexit deal with the EU
does not really help much.

https://40ton.net/it-might-take-you-a-week-to-leave-the-uk-and-trucks-are-waiting-again-at-manston-airport/

Bringing an empty truck back means you don't have to wait for days to clear customs and can get on with earning money from other deliveries.

Peregrinus · 29-01-2021 5:39am

sondagefaux wrote: »

The reason trucks are going back empty is because truck drivers and freight companies don't want to have to get stuck in customs queues, at the risk of experiencing these problems . . . Bringing an empty truck back means you don't have to wait for days to clear customs and can get on with earning money from other deliveries.

Yup. It's still a problem, because it costs money and time to run an empty truck, so the charge made for deliveries to the UK has to go up to cover the cost of paying the driver, fuel, ferry tickets, etc for the return journey. So this doesn't avoid Brexit-related costs; it's just a harm minimisation choice. Carriers choose the lower costs of running empty trucks on the return journey rather than the higher costs of carrying a payload but having to faff around Manston Airfield for a week, and risk getting turned back.

Hurrache · 29-01-2021 9:53am

sondagefaux wrote: »

Bringing an empty truck back means you don't have to wait for days to clear customs and can get on with earning money from other deliveries.

That's their reasoning alright, but it's still costing by having an additional unpaid trip for every trip they make.

Peregrinus · 29-01-2021 9:58am

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

It could get exponentially worse if trucks heading into UK get checked on French side too when leaving, this AstraZeneca thing really blowing up, Brexiteers that were quiet for weeks are jumping up in joy, yet this is another example of Brexit killing collaboration, I doubt they would like other countries to get nationalistic on them

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-moves-toward-new-mechanism-that-can-block-vaccine-exports/

While the customs authorities would be responsible for enforcing the export prohibition, it's unlikely that they would rely very much on border inspections as an enforcement tool. There's only a handful of producers of Covid vaccines in the EU, and they are all major pharmaceutical companies. Customs authorities would simply refuse to issue the necessary export authorisations, and I think the producers concerned have far too much at stake to consider attempting to export illegally without an authorisation.

More generally, you talk about matters getting worse "if trucks heading to UK get checked on the French side too when leaving". Goods exported from the EU to the UK are already liable to the customs rules and procedures that apply to exports to third countries; these have been in operation since 1 January. This does mean they are subject to physical checks but, in practice, few are checked. This is because the French have been much better prepared and resourced for the job that HMRC were on the UK side, and they have operational electronic declaration and clearance systems that work, meaning that there is limited reliance on physical inspections. This, combined with the fact that cross-channel trade volumes have been low anyway, for reasons that we know about, mean that the new controls on the French side haven't become a bottleneck. It's poissible that they will do, if/when trade volumes pick up.

29-01-2021 12:54pm

Reading the comments section on the BBC news site about the EU actions against AstraZeneca and there is a clear Fu-EU response to demands to "jump the queue".
UK EU relations can only get worse in the coming months.

Hurrache · 29-01-2021 1:41pm

Seems like anyone can be a professor these days and be called upon by the BBC to give unchallenged 'expert' advice on how the EU is in blatant disregard to WTO rules and not allowing their border to be seamless, "the EU, not like us, has not been very cooperative with firms about this new border...under WTO rules ..it's got to be cooperative or it will be illegal".

https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1355106529519792129

sondagefaux · 29-01-2021 4:08pm

Hurrache wrote: »

Seems like anyone can be a professor these days and be called upon by the BBC to give unchallenged 'expert' advice on how the EU is in blatant disregard to WTO rules and not allowing their border to be seamless, "the EU, not like us, has not been very cooperative with firms about this new border...under WTO rules ..it's got to be cooperative or it will be illegal".

https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1355106529519792129

He's one step away from waving a copy of Magna Carta in the air while singing Rule Brittania.

sondagefaux · 29-01-2021 4:11pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Reading the comments section on the BBC news site about the EU actions against AstraZeneca and there is a clear Fu-EU response to demands to "jump the queue".
UK EU relations can only get worse in the coming months.

Let's not forget the European Parliament has to give its consent to permit the EU to ratify the TCA.

A few months of aggro about vaccines should really help that process...

20silkcut · 29-01-2021 4:13pm

sondagefaux wrote: »

He's one step away from waving a copy of Magna Carta in the air while singing Rule Brittania.

In fairness his accent is right he has a few letters after his name now a cohort of people watching will be fully convinced that WTO trade is seamless.

It is like saying that gravity does not act on an object if you throw it in the air.

29-01-2021 4:14pm

sondagefaux wrote: »

He's one step away from waving a copy of Magna Carta in the air while singing Rule Brittania.

The Magna Carta was Norman, a period of history when much of (what became) England was ruled by the Normandy French, the document was essentially the English kings surrender, why would he be doing that?

sondagefaux · 29-01-2021 4:16pm

Hurrache wrote: »

That's their reasoning alright, but it's still costing by having an additional unpaid trip for every trip they make.

Which is why freight rates for EU/UK deliveries have shot up recently, assuming you can find someone willing to go to the UK.

This is only going to get worse.

For now, the British are just waving everything through but they're going to implement full checks and controls from 1st July.

Getting into Britain will be as hard as getting out.

That's when the real fun starts...

29-01-2021 4:19pm

sondagefaux wrote: »

Which is why freight rates for EU/UK deliveries have shot up recently, assuming you can find someone willing to go to the UK.

This is only going to get worse.

For now, the British are just waving everything through but they're going to implement full checks and controls from 1st July.

Getting into Britain will be as hard as getting out.

That's when the real fun starts...

There'll be far less cross channel trade by then.

sondagefaux · 29-01-2021 4:25pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The Magna Carta was Norman, a period of history when much of (what became) England was ruled by the Normandy French, the document was essentially the English kings surrender, why would he be doing that?

You're not aware of morons citing Magna Carta as basically over-riding all other law?

It's been a feature of some anti-lockdown activism in the UK, a bit like the Freeman of the Land drivel that was used in Ireland fairly recently.

The Quinn Blakey owner tried to use the Magna Carta as a reason for staying open.

The letter on the door referring to the 1215 document said: “Under Article 61 of Magna Carta 1215 we have a right to enter into lawful dissent if we feel we are being governed unjustly.

https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/business/consumer/quinn-blakey-magna-carta-hair-salon-back-open-legally-after-racking-ps17000-fines-over-lockdown-3055065

Minford's claims about WTO rules are about as credible as this hairdresser's claims about Magna Carta.

Larbre34 · 29-01-2021 4:31pm

sondagefaux wrote: »

Which is why freight rates for EU/UK deliveries have shot up recently, assuming you can find someone willing to go to the UK.

This is only going to get worse.

For now, the British are just waving everything through but they're going to implement full checks and controls from 1st July.

Getting into Britain will be as hard as getting out.

That's when the real fun starts...

Assuming they proceed with that regime.

I think they'll be looking at deeply serious, society changing shortages by then, not to mention existential threats to business and employment. I wouldn't rule out serious civil disorder as a consequence.

I also wouldn't rule out Johnson and Raab and a few other lunatics fully subscribing to the definition of madness either and doubling down on this stuff, so it'll be very interesting.

Professor Moriarty · 29-01-2021 4:32pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

Assuming they proceed with that regime.

I think they'll be looking at deeply serious, society changing shortages by then, not to mention existential threats to business and employment. I wouldn't rule out serious civil disorder as a consequence.

I also wouldn't rule out Johnson and Raab and a few other lunatics fully subscribing to the definition of madness either and doubling down on this stuff, so it'll be very interesting.

If so, expect serious trouble in the North and finger-pointing at the ROI.

Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

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