Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII Read OP For Mod Warnings

Penfailed · 28-01-2021 12:20PM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

I'm betting easing restrictions will be every month this time not 4 weeks

...because 2 or 3 days will make a massive difference?

FintanMcluskey · 28-01-2021 12:21PM

beauf wrote: »

Can you justify opening them in December.

The alternative was for people to be likely 9 months living under stay at home orders and business closures

monkeybutter · 28-01-2021 12:21PM

facehugger99 wrote: »

NPHET should be disbanded and a new advisory group formed.

Cut in at least in half to 15- 20 people but it should contain child psychologists, education experts, business representatives, economists as well as doctors and scientists. There should be debate and challenges reading the measures suggested. Their impact should be judged on the wider context of the country at large instead of the exercise in groupthink and servile acquiescence that we have now.

Holohan and his merry band of 39 nodding dogs are nothing but Covid zealots viewing everything through the medium of 'case-numbers'.

It is outrageous that they are being allowed to take advantage of a cowardly and weak Government and impose their fundamentalist nonsense on this country for months.

The cost of this will be immense and its repercussion's felt for years if not decades to come.

Wait for the moaning from the lockdown clappy-seals when the tax-rises and services cuts start coming.

what will you do when this cadre of 15-20 don't do what you conspiracy theorists want either i presume they would have some form of education to be considered for the role not mad lads

beauf · 28-01-2021 12:22PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

That’s completely disingenuous.

We’ve been in lockdown nearly twice as long as the rest of Europe since last March.

I can only imagine you either aren’t actually living in Ireland, or you have not actually been following the guidelines

Its disingenuous to imply its been continuous since last March. People were able to go on holiday get on a plane etc as recently as December.

beauf · 28-01-2021 12:24PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

The alternative was for people to be likely 9 months living under stay at home orders and business closures

You've never had to stay at home for 9 months. Not all business's had to close. Lots have never been busier.

28-01-2021 12:24PM

To the people that support restrictions, what is your end game here?

Are you happy that lockdown is going to drag into summer at least? Will you still support it if it drags on towards Christmas? Do you actually want normality to return?

Right now, I can’t see any way out of this. And merely existing is not living.

Funnily enough, it’s now the elder people that I know that are most upset. They know they have limited time left and can’t afford to be losing years caged inside.

VonLuck · 28-01-2021 12:24PM

Lundstram wrote: »

Been saying it time and time again, people have this image in their head that our hospitals resemble a scene from a WW1 epic. That’s what their fed in the media. Twitter and FB is full of nurses posting dramatic images of themselves with marked faces from face coverings usually followed by a sympathy garnering text. Anthony O’Connor or what ever his name is was a prime example of this. He averaged about 20 Tweets a day while claiming to be run off his feet. Absolute nonsense but people lap it up.

How are people still spouting this nonsense after nearly a year of Covid. It's this and the argument that death rates are statistically normal compared to other years. It's almost like you would prefer to see ICUs overwhelmed and deaths to increase in order to justify the restrictions. The whole point of lockdowns are to limit the admittances to ICU and reduce deaths! By this logic, the measures of success of the restrictions is for hospitals to be overwhelmed and to have a much higher death rate.

This is being posted time and time again. There's absolutely no sense behind it.

I've given this example before, but I'll use it again. It's like implementing seat belts in cars resulting in fewer road deaths. You wouldn't go around saying "What's the point in wearing seat belts? The deaths from car accidents are so low", would you?

Graham · 28-01-2021 12:25PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

The alternative was for people to be likely 9 months living under stay at home orders and business closures

If you've been staying at home for the last 9 months you need to pay closer attention to the restrictions.

ypres5 · 28-01-2021 12:26PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

To the people that support restrictions, what is your end game here?

Are you happy that lockdown is going to drag into summer at least? Will you still support it if it drags on towards Christmas? Do you actually want normality to return?

Right now, I can’t see any way out of this. And merely existing is not living.

Funnily enough, it’s now the elder people that I know that are most upset. They know they have limited time left and can’t afford to be losing years caged inside.

exactly, we're not talking about just a few more weeks or a few more months anymore listening to the government these past few days would make you utterly miserable and hopeless

Graham · 28-01-2021 12:27PM

Deleted User wrote: »

To the people that support restrictions, what is your end game here?

Are you happy that lockdown is going to drag into summer at least?

I don't know of anyone 'happy' with lockdowns.

The majority of people understand why they are necessary.

28-01-2021 12:27PM

beauf wrote: »

Its disingenuous to imply its been continuous since last March. People were able to go on holiday get on a plane etc as recently as December.

July is the only month since last March that all of Ireland had minimal restrictions in place.

Possibly December as well. Although not the whole month.

28-01-2021 12:30PM

ypres5 wrote: »

but it's already been said that even with the vaccines there's always the possibility that a bulletproof strain of covid could come along which can basically translate to indefinite restrictions

If SARS-CoV-2 ended up being "bulletproof", it'd likely evolve eventually to be highly transmissible and minimally virulent like the other human coronaviruses that cause common cold symptoms in most people (it's believed by many virologists that those viruses originated very similarly to SARS-CoV-2).

SARS-CoV-1 and MERS-CoV were both contained and eliminated because they were minimally transmissible between humans, had short incubation periods, and caused very severe illness and very high fatality, meaning people would stay put and recover or die instead of passing it on. SARS-CoV-2 was halfway 'round the world before we even knew it existed.

Graham · 28-01-2021 12:30PM

Deleted User wrote: »

July is the only month since last March that all of Ireland had minimal restrictions in place.

Possibly December as well. Although not the whole month.

Reduce restrictions too quickly and we end up where we've been this month resulting in tighter restriction which nobody wants.

SAMTALK · 28-01-2021 12:30PM

Deleted User wrote: »

To the people that support restrictions, what is your end game here?

Are you happy that lockdown is going to drag into summer at least? Will you still support it if it drags on towards Christmas? Do you actually want normality to return?

Right now, I can’t see any way out of this. And merely existing is not living.

Funnily enough, it’s now the elder people that I know that are most upset. They know they have limited time left and can’t afford to be losing years caged inside.

Support ? Happy ?

I honestly dont think anyone is happy with whats going on now.

It's not a case of being happy with restrictions, more that there is a need for them and to see why there is a need

Of course people want to see normality return.

If anyone says they can see the need for restrictions they are immediately called sheep etc which is totally unfair.

28-01-2021 12:31PM

Graham wrote: »

I don't know of anyone 'happy' with lockdowns.

The majority of people understand why they are necessary.

With half a million not working, every school in the country closed, screenings and treatments cancelled and a bill that is growing and growing every day....

At what point do we ask is it worth it?

Lots of those half a million are going to be in a very desperate place soon.

facehugger99 · 28-01-2021 12:32PM

beauf wrote: »

Ignoring them worked out well and caused the rise in Jan and associated lockdown.

Ah, so we need to have continuous lockdown in order to be able to avoid lockdown?

Jesus, some people will need to be fully deprogrammed from the brainwashing when this Covid hysteria eventually ends.

FintanMcluskey · 28-01-2021 12:32PM

Graham wrote: »

I don't know of anyone 'happy' with lockdowns.

The majority of people understand why they are necessary.

Those same people have limited understanding of both the sunk costs and numbers justifying those lockdowns

FintanMcluskey · 28-01-2021 12:33PM

facehugger99 wrote: »

Jesus, some people will need to be fully deprogrammed from the brainwashing when this Covid hysteria eventually ends.

There is no way out for those folk.

Transmissible respiratory illness causing hospital overcrowding will require mitigation measures every year

SAMTALK · 28-01-2021 12:35PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Those same people have limited understanding of both the sunk costs and numbers justifying those lockdowns

You really think that people who understand why there is a need to have restrictions dont understand the cost this come at ?

SAMTALK · 28-01-2021 12:36PM

facehugger99 wrote: »

Ah, so we need to have continuous lockdown in order to be able to avoid lockdown?

Jesus, some people will need to be fully deprogrammed from the brainwashing when this Covid hysteria eventually ends.

Or maybe the vaccine ?

28-01-2021 12:39PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

There is no way out for those folk.

Transmissible respiratory illness causing hospital overcrowding will require mitigation measures every year

Blanket countrywide measures as well.
Full Dublin hospitals will be bad news for the folks on Achill Island.

Allinall · 28-01-2021 12:42PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

The alternative was for people to be likely 9 months living under stay at home orders and business closures

There has never been stay at home orders.

Whatsisname · 28-01-2021 12:44PM

The gaslighting in this thread is reaching new levels.

Boggles · 28-01-2021 12:49PM

Whatsisname wrote: »

The gaslighting in this thread is reaching new levels.

Indeed, the vast majority of it self imposed.

It really is reaching CT levels of bizarreness.

28-01-2021 12:51PM

monkeybutter wrote: »

what will you do when this cadre of 15-20 don't do what you conspiracy theorists want either i presume they would have some form of education to be considered for the role not mad lads

I'd personally just be glad that a holistic approach was being taken, to be honest.

If a cost-benefit analysis undertaken by a wide range of experts concluded that the life-years saved by lockdowns outweighed the health, economic and social cost of them, then fine. But that sort of analysis is not being done and those sorts of experts are not being consulted.

The WHO, for example, recommends that lockdowns be used as a very short-term tool, the purpose of which is to come up with a more workable, longer-term, less restrictive strategy.

We seem to be using lockdowns as the primary measure. We're not recommending vitamin D, our track & trace has been a shambles from the start, our borders have remained open, there's been no quarantine enforcement for people entering the country. And I'm supposed to blame Joe Bloggs the factory worker from Offaly for all the deaths because he wants to go for a socially-distanced pint this side of summer? Something off there.

francogarbanzo · 28-01-2021 12:51PM

This is obviously nowhere near perfect, but I wanted to do a quick comparison between deaths and "life years" lost. For example, while we're not dead, it can be argued that we're not "living" right now, we're surviving until we're allowed to start living normal life again.

We've had 3120 deaths so far in Ireland. The median age of death with COVID is 83. Let's be very conservative, and say it's 75, just for the sake of argument. The average life expectancy in this country is 82.

With these numbers, we've currently lost 262,080 life months due to COVID related deaths.

Let's say we've been in some form of lockdown since last March, but in total, let's just say that we've been in a "hard lockdown" (no life lockdown) for six months, and that applies to about 5 million people. That's a loss of 30,000,000 life months, and growing.

30,000,000 vs. 262,080

I know, this isn't "good math", but it is a rough approximation of what we're currently doing here. And that's conservative.

Responder XY · 28-01-2021 12:51PM

SAMTALK wrote: »

You really think that people who understand why there is a need to have restrictions dont understand the cost this come at ?

It's very apparent that most of them don't! A full year in and nobody has yet produced a balanced impact assessment tells us all you need to know about the bodies proposing lockdowns and restrictions.

Not saying that such an assessment won't conclude that restrictions are proportionate - but the fact that they don't exist tells us that those proposing lockdowns don't know the cost of what they have done.

Whatsisname · 28-01-2021 12:51PM

Boggles wrote: »

Indeed, the vast majority of it self imposed.

It really is reaching CT levels of bizarreness.

Ofcourse it is Bogs.

28-01-2021 12:52PM

Whatsisname wrote: »

The gaslighting in this thread is reaching new levels.

There certainly is a concerted effort in some quarters to manipulate and misrepresent reality and then to claim that anyone who questions the manipulation is somehow brainwashed or a shill who loves lockdown in an attempt to belittle and isolate the individual(s) as part of the ongoing echo chamber that this place has become

Gael23 · 28-01-2021 12:54PM

We have now past the point where the cure is worse than the disease.

We need to open up once the over 70d are vaccinated and accept that unfortunately some people are going to die

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII Read OP For Mod Warnings