Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

acequion

facehugger99 wrote: »

That's hilarious.

NPHET are single-issue zealots who define success or failure through Covid case-numbers and nothing else.

The Government are just following the public mood, primarily using social-media as a barometer of same. They are not thinking any further than what will get them approval or votes. They are cowards who will think noting of spending billions of our money to shield themselves from taking any kind of responsibility .

Do you actually think there is any cost-benefit analysis being carried out at the moment to examine lockdowns and see if they are providing value?

Are the media encouraging debate on the subject or just ramping up the hysteria to generate clicks?

There's a lot of people who will finally wake up to the cost of this nonsense when it's far too late.

Totally agree here. NPHET are indeed single issue zealots. You need only take a look at the mental health thread on this forum to read the harrowing stories of the impact of all the restrictions. No public health figure is giving any serious consideration to the growing number of other health issues. It's Covid or nothing.

And the Govt are an embarrassing disaster. MM reminds me of Enda Kenny. A wily politician but not the most intelligent human being. His whole reason for living is FF and for him to be Taoiseach and like Kenny, he's parish pump at heart. And if there's one thing worse than a parish pump Taoiseach it's a disgruntled parish pump Taoiseach. And MM is sore now because he tried to be nice, he thinks, by giving us a "meaningful Xmas" and it backfired badly. And he's raging. Just look at his words at Leaders questions yesterday, that he's not a "Taoiseach of half measures" and something to the tune of he won't be making the same mistakes again. And holidays "have to stop." Dented ego completely at play and god help us all in the months ahead with people like him in charge.

beauf

Deleted User wrote: »

July is the only month since last March that all of Ireland had minimal restrictions in place.

Possibly December as well. Although not the whole month.

Thanks for agreeing that its not been a continuous lockdown. The current one is 4 weeks at most. Not 9 months as is implied by some.

Graham

Graham wrote: »

Are we back to pretending Coronavirus is like the flu (again)?

Which flu?

beauf

Responder XY wrote: »

Nobody is doing that, put your strawman back in it's box.

Of course they are. In fact it been implied its a non event. No different to normal.

Interesting

https://fullfact.org/health/can-we-believe-lockdown-sceptics/

francogarbanzo

Deleted User wrote: »

Interesting

https://fullfact.org/health/can-we-believe-lockdown-sceptics/

My immediate reaction to anyone calling themselves a "fact checker" is doubt.

beauf

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

It isnt. Because costs exceed benefits, but decision was made BEFORE such analysis was done. and ofcourse never published... why publish something that tells you made a mistake?

Unfortunately people arent smart enough to realize this.

Yes what its needed to spend a couple of years analyzing something while watch it takes it course. Not that the analysis will have any value. Because as previously discussed, you will ignore the worse case scenario and assume the best outcome anyway which is to do nothing.

francogarbanzo

francogarbanzo wrote: »

My immediate reaction to anyone calling themselves a "fact checker" is doubt.

Its not your reaction to someone who claims they know better that scientists, governments, NGO's etc etc etc all over the world?

beauf

francogarbanzo wrote: »

My immediate reaction to anyone calling themselves a "fact checker" is doubt.

"This article has been corrected to say Peter Hitchens is a columnist for the Mail on Sunday, not the Daily Mail"

Encouraging...

Lundstram

Graham wrote: »

Are we back to pretending Coronavirus is like the flu (again)?

Ah here you again with another witty one-liner. You’re just trying and failing to come across as smart and clever again.

Literally nobody said it was a flu. Just like no one is saying there should be no restrictions and “just let it rip”.

Another self serving post from you.

Lundstram

Lundstram wrote: »

Ah here you again with another witty one-liner. You’re just trying and failing to come across as smart and clever again.

Literally nobody said it was a flu. Just like no one is saying there should be no restrictions and “just let it rip”.

Another self serving post from you.

There were lots saying that, until December happened. Now its shifted, slightly

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

There was never a precedent for restrictions before, and there was never a precedent for lockdowns or even a model for lockdowns in virology literature.

Nope.

Of course, getting citizens to comply with such orders is another story: In 1918, a San Francisco health officer shot three people when one refused to wear a mandatory face mask. In Arizona, police handed out $10 fines for those caught without the protective gear. But eventually, the most drastic and sweeping measures paid off. After implementing a multitude of strict closures and controls on public gatherings, St. Louis, San Francisco, Milwaukee, and Kansas City responded fastest and most effectively: Interventions there were credited with cutting transmission rates by 30 to 50 percent. New York City, which reacted earliest to the crisis with mandatory quarantines and staggered business hours, experienced the lowest death rate on the Eastern seaboard.

How some cities ‘flattened the curve’ during the 1918 flu pandemic

Shot for not wearing a mask was an interesting strategy.

Boggles

Lundstram wrote: »

Literally nobody said it was a flu.

On here?

We had one contributor say it wasn't even the flu.

:pac:

Lundstram

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There were lots saying that, until December happened. Now its shifted, slightly

Shifted just like posters saying “we’re 4 weeks into lockdown”, forgetting about 2020.

Why is construction still banned in Ireland? Why are special needs kids banned from attending school? Why have ROI made zero effort to align things with NI? Why did it take 10 months to tackle the airport problem?

Answer those questions in a meaningful way rather that a one liner trying to come across as clever.

Kunta Kinte

Boggles wrote: »

Nope.



How some cities ‘flattened the curve’ during the 1918 flu pandemic

Shot for not wearing a mask was an interesting strategy.

Drastic but effective. Maybe a little less draconian measure should be implemented here.

growleaves

Of course, getting citizens to comply with such orders is another story: In 1918, a San Francisco health officer shot three people when one refused to wear a mandatory face mask. In Arizona, police handed out $10 fines for those caught without the protective gear. But eventually, the most drastic and sweeping measures paid off. After implementing a multitude of strict closures and controls on public gatherings, St. Louis, San Francisco, Milwaukee, and Kansas City responded fastest and most effectively: Interventions there were credited with cutting transmission rates by 30 to 50 percent. New York City, which reacted earliest to the crisis with mandatory quarantines and staggered business hours, experienced the lowest death rate on the Eastern seaboard.

One anti-mask serial killer and a few limited shutdowns in a handful of cities (of a few weeks/months) for a disease which killed (estimated) between 50 and 100 million people.

Penfailed

Whatsisname wrote: »

The gaslighting in this thread is reaching new levels.

From which perspective are you judging this?

Boggles

growleaves wrote: »

One anti-mask serial killer and a few limited shutdowns in a handful of cities (of a few weeks/months) for a disease which killed (estimated) between 50 and 100 million people.

I linked to the whole article.

Go on, give it a go.

You never know......

Lundstram

Penfailed wrote: »

From which perspective are you judging this?

It’s the people who can see beyond Covid19. The 5M lives it won’t affect except losing their job, their homes, their freedom and their education.

We don’t all look at life through the miserable prism of Covid19.

If you do, you’re “gaslighting”.

beauf

Lundstram wrote: »

Shifted just like posters saying “we’re 4 weeks into lockdown”, forgetting about 2020.

Why is construction still banned in Ireland? Why are special needs kids banned from attending school? Why have ROI made zero effort to align things with NI? Why did it take 10 months to tackle the airport problem?

Answer those questions in a meaningful way rather that a one liner trying to come across as clever.

Kettle black tbh...

We are 4 weeks into a new lockdown. The lockdown was mostly lifted in Dec. I've also constantly mentioned 2020. So no, it wasn't ignored. Weak strawman though.

Construction is not still banned. Its been unbanned and then re-banned again. There are also exclusions. So its not completely banned.

https://cif.ie/coronavirus/

Some unions wouldn't support it.
https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0119/1190583-sna-teachers/

I'm sure the rest could also be googled.

beauf

growleaves wrote: »

One anti-mask serial killer and a few limited shutdowns in a handful of cities (of a few weeks/months) for a disease which killed (estimated) between 50 and 100 million people.

You seem to be suggesting you'd prefer that outcome, now.

Ginger n Lemon

Lundstram wrote: »

It’s the people who can see beyond Covid19. The 5M lives it won’t affect except losing their job, their homes, their freedom and their education.

We don’t all look at life through the miserable prism of Covid19.

If you do, you’re “gaslighting”.

I think good few here are WFH warriors who are actually saving money due to restrictions.

You will never prove or show them that lockdown costs outweigh benefits. Not for them.

growleaves

Boggles wrote: »

I linked to the whole article.

Go on, give it a go.

You never know......

People have been linking to it for 10 months, I must've read it five times already. It doesn't contradict my points. These shutdowns covered a single cold and flu season from September '18 to Feb '19, they didn't go on for years. The closures were limited (not explored in the article) apart from that Philadelphia had severe restrictions at one point. This was in response to one of the most extreme disease outbreaks in history, killing people of all ages who had been weakened by a world war.

Graham

Lundstram wrote: »

It’s the people who can see beyond Covid19. The 5M lives it won’t affect except losing their job, their homes, their freedom and their education.

These are temporary restrictions during a global pandemic?

Those of us who can see beyond Covid19 understand that.

growleaves

beauf wrote: »

You seem to be suggesting you'd prefer that outcome, now.

Stop lying, please.

beauf

Lundstram wrote: »

It’s the people who can see beyond Covid19. The 5M lives it won’t affect except losing their job, their homes, their freedom and their education.

We don’t all look at life through the miserable prism of Covid19.

If you do, you’re “gaslighting”.

What 5m in their entirely are losing all that at the same time? The whole country all at the same time? Could you provide some links.

beauf

growleaves wrote: »

Stop lying, please.

What lie?

Lundstram

Lundstram wrote: »

Shifted just like posters saying “we’re 4 weeks into lockdown”, forgetting about 2020.

Why is construction still banned in Ireland? Why are special needs kids banned from attending school? Why have ROI made zero effort to align things with NI? Why did it take 10 months to tackle the airport problem?

Answer those questions in a meaningful way rather that a one liner trying to come across as clever.

Valid questions.

Construction - to prevent unnecessary movement of people. All non essential work is not permitted at the moment, so not just construction. If robust controls were put in place there is room for debate in my view.

Special Needs education - ask the unions. The government wanted to restart

Alignment with NI - given the representative of the majority population in the north is focused on making sure they are aligned with GB, rather than having any interest in looking south, is there much we can do?

The one liners are generally directed at nonsense such as "lockdowns have no effect" and "understanding restrictions in going against science" and "0.2% death rate" and "false positives PCRs" etc etc. And if a few people would get away from relying on the second rate nonsense from discredited charlatans like Ivor Cummings, Judy Mikovits, Mike Yeadon etc. a genuine debate may break out

Boggles

Lundstram wrote: »

It’s the people who can see beyond Covid19. The 5M lives it won’t affect except losing their job, their homes, their freedom and their education.
.

Have you made yourself the unofficial spokesperson for 5 million people?

You do realize the vast majority of people understand the restrictions and the need for them, they also understand their is a marginal fringe element who base their hubris on feelings and not science.

Ginger n Lemon

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I think good few here are WFH warriors who are actually saving money due to restrictions.

You will never prove or show them that lockdown costs outweigh benefits. Not for them.

Can you separate an argument from the individual at all? Someone disagrees, they are a WFH warrior?