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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Comments

  • #2492
    Lundstram
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Lundstram


    Graham wrote: »
    Speak for yourself.

    Most people I know just take the appropriate precautions and get on with things in as much as they can.

    Maybe you could take up a hobby or start a distance learning course to distract yourself from it for a while.
    I’ve a full time job and I do a degree part time. I’m kept busy thanks for your concern.

    Another typical retort from you. Trying to be witty and clever.

    No substance to your posts at all. At least your colleagues try.

    You’re just boring.


  • #2493
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,662 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    CrabRevolution wrote: »
    I'm curious to know how the "0.2% mortality, so open up and let her rip" crowd picture how that would work out.

    Say we opened up today, and stopped testing for Covid at all or bothering to count deaths. Our cases and death rates would drop to 0, but hospitals would still be full and the health system would still collapse within weeks.

    Now I'm sure we'll be told "just build bigger hospitals/protect the vulnerable etc." but if it's that straightforward why has no country on earth managed it?

    Nobody suggests to open up and let it rip. It’s become a childish remedial counter argument when the numbers don’t back up stay at home orders and business closures.

    Let it rip would mean no social distance or mask wearing, the Aviva and Croke park full for matches and concerts. I have not seen anyone suggest anything of the sort despite your vivid imagination.

    What’s mostly questioned here is the cost effectiveness of stay at home orders and business closures. Ireland is the only European country to close construction this year.

    Ireland was in lockdown far longer than the rest of Europe last year. Almost twice as long as some others. We are now planning to do the same this year.

    The Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) health system policy tracker states that public spaces defined as parks, restaurants, bars, cinemas, non-essential shops and services were closed in Ireland for 120 days from March 12th.

    The country with the next highest number of days where public spaces were shut was Finland (74 days) followed by Slovakia (66 days) and Bulgaria and Estonia (both 65 days).

    I keep quoting that because it’s evidence that nobody can argue with.

    The bad news is this year will be no different. In fact Leo suggests it may be worse than last year


  • #2494
    SAMTALK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,353 ✭✭✭SAMTALK


    Lundstram wrote: »
    It’s not though. Go look at some numbers instead of posting random nonsense about stuff you know nothing about.

    Our hospital numbers are falling rapidly. Our case numbers have fallen 80% in two weeks.

    Another poster posting rhetoric without actually looking at numbers. It’s rife in this thread.

    Numbers are dropping but health service still under pressure. Numbers are falling .

    This is because we are in lockdown .

    So you know everything and anyone that doesnt agree with you just posts nonsense and knows nothing :rolleyes:


  • #2495
    Cerveza
    Closed Accounts Posts: 424 ✭✭Cerveza


    We are paying now for the people who had a meaningful Christmas. It’s as simple as that. We would be in a lot better place if people had a tiny bit of cop on but he ho that didn’t happen.
    We have those people crying now and they the cause of it.


  • #2496
    facehugger99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,885 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    NPHET should be disbanded and a new advisory group formed.

    Cut in at least in half to 15- 20 people but it should contain child psychologists, education experts, business representatives, economists as well as doctors and scientists. There should be debate and challenges reading the measures suggested. Their impact should be judged on the wider context of the country at large instead of the exercise in groupthink and servile acquiescence that we have now.

    Holohan and his merry band of 39 nodding dogs are nothing but Covid zealots viewing everything through the medium of 'case-numbers'.

    It is outrageous that they are being allowed to take advantage of a cowardly and weak Government and impose their fundamentalist nonsense on this country for months.

    The cost of this will be immense and its repercussion's felt for years if not decades to come.

    Wait for the moaning from the lockdown clappy-seals when the tax-rises and services cuts start coming.


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  • #2497
    SAMTALK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,353 ✭✭✭SAMTALK


    polesheep wrote: »
    A lot do actually. My wife, a nurse, hears it all the time. She's always getting sympathy texts. Finds them funny.

    How many people did she hear it from and get texts from though ?

    This is not the majority of people..


  • #2498
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    Ireland was in lockdown far longer than the rest of Europe last year. Almost twice as long as some others. We are now planning to do the same this year.

    I keep quoting that because it’s evidence that nobody can argue with.

    The bad news is this year will be no different. In fact Leo suggests it may be worse than last year

    and we had some of the lowest infection rates in Europe.

    Until.....

    Wait for it.....

    You'll be shocked......


    restrictions were lifted.


  • #2499
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    SAMTALK wrote: »
    How many people did she hear it from and get texts from though ?

    This is not the majority of people..

    The word majority wasn't used. Perhaps you misinterpreted?


  • #2500
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,662 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    Graham wrote: »
    and we had some of the lowest infection rates in Europe.

    Until.....

    Wait for it.....

    You'll be shocked......


    restrictions were lifted.

    Are you happy to stay in lockdown for the rest of your natural life?

    Because it seems that’s the moral stance you are taking?


  • #2501
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    ....Ireland is the only European country to close construction this year.
    ..

    Not true. It hasn't been closed for the year. It's been restricted at various levels at various time. This has also happened across Europe especially in Spain and Italy. Building is still going on, just at times, at reduced levels.


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  • #2502
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    NPHET should be disbanded and a new advisory group formed.

    Cut in at least in half to 15- 20 people but it should contain child psychologists, education experts, business representatives, economists as well as doctors and scientists. There should be debate and challenges reading the measures suggested. Their impact should be judged on the wider context of the country at large instead of the exercise in groupthink and servile acquiescence that we have now.

    Holohan and his merry band of 39 nodding dogs are nothing but Covid zealots viewing everything through the medium of 'case-numbers'.

    It is outrageous that they are being allowed to take advantage of a cowardly and weak Government and impose their fundamentalist nonsense on this country for months.

    The cost of this will be immense and its repercussion's felt for years if not decades to come.

    Wait for the moaning from the lockdown clappy-seals when the tax-rises and services cuts start coming.

    Ignoring them worked out well and caused the rise in Jan and associated lockdown.


  • #2503
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 949 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    Cut in at least in half to 15- 20 people but it should contain child psychologists, education experts, business representatives, economists as well as doctors and scientists. There should be debate and challenges reading the measures suggested. Their impact should be judged on the wider context of the country at large instead of the exercise in groupthink and servile acquiescence that we have now.

    In fairness to NPHET, their wheelhouse is the ongoing health emergency and rightly so. But NPHET should have been one part of a much bigger advisory group like you've outlined there, instead of being the tail wagging the government dog and the only input considered.

    NPHET are responsible for advising on the ongoing health emergency and they've done it well, all things considered. The government is responsible for making informed, holistic decisions, and it has abjectly failed in this.


  • #2504
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    Are you happy to stay in lockdown for the rest of your natural life?

    Come back to me when somebody credible makes such a suggestion. It's certainly not something I've ever advocated.


  • #2505
    SAMTALK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,353 ✭✭✭SAMTALK


    [QUOTE=Lundstram;116079231]Been saying it time and time again, people have this image in their head that our hospitals resemble a scene from a WW1 epic. That’s what their fed in the media. Twitter and FB is full of nurses posting dramatic images of themselves with marked faces from face coverings usually followed by a sympathy garnering text. Anthony O’Connor or what ever his name is was a prime example of this. He averaged about 20 Tweets a day while claiming to be run off his feet. Absolute nonsense but people lap it up.

    Everything is viewed through a prism of Covid19, everything.

    We are utterly obsessed with this thing.

    .[/QUOTE]

    Polesheep This is what i'm referring to. How may people realistically have this imagine of a scene from WW1.

    You cannot make a general remark like this and lob everyone into it that doesnt agree with poster.


  • #2506
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    Are you happy to stay in lockdown for the rest of your natural life?

    Because it seems that’s the moral stance you are taking?

    We are in lockdown for only 4 weeks and People here are hysterical about lifetime in lockdown and survival of the species. I'm not sure what is worse, actually believing that, or deliberately posting fictitious sound bytes to create hysteria.


  • #2507
    ypres5
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,168 ✭✭✭ypres5


    Graham wrote: »
    Come back to me when somebody credible makes such a suggestion. It's certainly not something I've ever advocated.

    but it's already been said that even with the vaccines there's always the possibility that a bulletproof strain of covid could come along which can basically translate to indefinite restrictions


  • #2508
    francogarbanzo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 365 ✭✭francogarbanzo


    Graham wrote: »
    Come back to me when somebody credible makes such a suggestion. It's certainly not something I've ever advocated.

    Can you give a timeframe or milestone that would have to be met in order for you to become skeptical or against lockdowns?

    For example, if all vulnerable groups have had the opportunity to be vaccinated, and we're still doing these rolling lockdowns or travel restrictions, will you support that? Or if by November, we're still in this situation, are you OK with that?

    In other words, what is the point for you where this is not OK?


  • #2509
    Cerveza
    Closed Accounts Posts: 424 ✭✭Cerveza


    Lockdown may be suiting some, draw away the pup and lounge all day.


  • #2510
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,662 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    Graham wrote: »
    Come back to me when somebody credible makes such a suggestion. It's certainly not something I've ever advocated.

    Well you have backed yourself into a corner almost defending lockdown.

    Ireland had the longest lockdown, the 3rd highest death rate of vulnerable citizens, but you justified that by remarking that the case rate was rather low.

    Surely the sums will eventually hit home


  • #2511
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    ypres5 wrote: »
    but it's already been said that even with the vaccines there's always the possibility that a bulletproof strain of covid could come along

    Until that happens, I'm going to file that in the conspiracy theory folder.


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  • #2512
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 949 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    NPHET are responsible for advising on the ongoing health emergency and they've done it well, all things considered.

    Actually I take this back. A competent body of doctors tasked to deal with Covid-19 would have been strongly recommending Vitamin D supplementation since last March when the strong link between deficiency and severe/fatal Covid-19 started to emerge. And they would have been pressuring the government to provide supplementation to every household, given how cheap it is. And they'd have saved a lot of lives doing so.

    Still could save lives doing so.

    So f*ck 'em.


  • #2513
    kieran26
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 248 ✭✭kieran26


    .


  • #2514
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,662 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    beauf wrote: »
    We are in lockdown for only 4 weeks and People here are hysterical about lifetime in lockdown and survival of the species. I'm not sure what is worse, actually believing that, or deliberately posting fictitious sound bytes to create hysteria.

    That’s completely disingenuous.

    We’ve been in lockdown nearly twice as long as the rest of Europe since last March.

    I can only imagine you either aren’t actually living in Ireland, or you have not actually been following the guidelines


  • #2515
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    Well you have backed yourself into a corner almost defending lockdown.

    Ireland had the longest lockdown, the 3rd highest death rate of vulnerable citizens, but you justified that by remarking that the case rate was rather low.

    Surely the sums will eventually hit home

    I see why restrictions are necessary.

    Case numbers between November and January only go to support my opinion.

    The quick reintroduction of restrictions prevented the health service becoming overwhelmed.

    The result of the reintroduction of restrictions now see case numbers and deaths falling.


  • #2516
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,662 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    Graham wrote: »
    Until that happens, I'm going to file that in the conspiracy theory folder.

    What?????

    Science and reality gets filed into conspiracy theories now it seems


  • #2517
    paw patrol
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,312 ✭✭✭paw patrol


    Cerveza wrote: »
    Lockdown may be suiting some, draw away the pup and lounge all day.

    this may be so for younger people but people I know on PUP are miserable and down to drinking Dutch gold.

    The real lockdown lovers and supporters are the office and iFSC types no break in work , full salary with less expenses for travel , lunch and work clothes etc...

    I'm in that cohort tbh but i'm not selfish enough not to see the pain suffered by other friends who aren't as fortunate.


  • #2518
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,662 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    Graham wrote: »
    I see why restrictions are necessary.

    Case numbers between November and January only go to support my opinion.

    The quick reintroduction of restrictions prevented the health service becoming overwhelmed.

    The result of the reintroduction of restrictions now see case numbers and deaths falling.

    Can you justify stay at home orders and business closures for the quantity of time we have had them since last March?

    And will likely have them most of this year according to Leo


  • #2519
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    What?????

    Science and reality gets filed into conspiracy theories now it seems

    What happened to ignoring worse case scenarios....


  • #2520
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    Can you justify stay at home orders and business closures for the quantity of time we have had them since last March?

    And will likely have them most of this year according to Leo

    Can you justify opening them in December.


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  • #2521
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    francogarbanzo wrote: »
    Can you give a timeframe or milestone that would have to be met in order for you to become skeptical or against lockdowns?

    For example, if all vulnerable groups have had the opportunity to be vaccinated, and we're still doing these rolling lockdowns or travel restrictions, will you support that? Or if by November, we're still in this situation, are you OK with that?

    In other words, what is the point for you where this is not OK?

    Asked and answered already on this very thread.

    If we get the 7/14 day case average into low double figures, that should give us about 4 months where restrictions can be eased somewhat. Maybe longer as a larger proportion of the population get vaccinated.

    If we can keep the vaccination plan broadly to schedule we may avoid another peak completely and that's when things can really start and get back to normal.


This discussion has been closed.
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