What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

Mitch Connor · 28-01-2021 10:41AM

mick087 wrote: »

Let the courts decide about the contract.

What is the EU commissions plan B? What are the plans now for the vaccine?

All the other vaccines that are being produced and have been ordered?

monkeybutter · 28-01-2021 10:44AM

mick087 wrote: »

Let the courts decide about the contract.

What is the EU commissions plan B? What are the plans now for the vaccine?

what is your plan b?

if there's no vaccine about then there will be a delay

perhaps threats of a crippling lawsuit will change AZs tune

are you willing to admit the EU did nothing wrong

hotmail.com · 28-01-2021 10:46AM

Is Ireland going to ask for vaccines off Britain?

monkeybutter · 28-01-2021 10:47AM

hotmail.com wrote: »

Is Ireland going to ask for vaccines off Britain?

off you go, his address is below

Boris Johnson

House of Commons
London
SW1A 0AA

mick087 · 28-01-2021 10:49AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

All the other vaccines that are being produced and have been ordered?

So plan B is to wait on the other vaccines that have been ordered and produced. That's fair enough i accept that.

Would you know if they given us a date we can expect delivery of this vaccine so we can get on and vaccinate.?

Pete_Cavan · 28-01-2021 10:50AM

mick087 wrote: »

Let the courts decide about the contract.

What is the EU commissions plan B? What are the plans now for the vaccine?

They are going to do everything in their power to force AZ to honour, or as close as possible to, the commitments they made in the contract and for which they already received hundreds of millions of the EU's euros.

Melanchthon · 28-01-2021 10:53AM

Wolf359f wrote: »

It's definitely a strange one and with contracts not being made public it's all wild speculation. If there is a clause in the UK contract for x amount to be given to the UK first, that wouldn't explain how other countries have been getting some supplies (assuming it wasn't just the UK getting supplies from the EU factories)

Most likely scenario I can see is that.
If the UK has a guaranteed first preference on 30-100 million doses (not sure which number will come into play here) and the EU has an advanced purchase agreement subject to best efforts for 300 million doses with delivery of X amount in Q1 how do the contracts interact. As somebody clueless about contract law would presume the UK agreement takes precedence.
Adding to this is the fact that the UK order has already been massively delayed.

Also posted it earlier about the UK head of Astra stated to a question from a parliamentary committee when asked

I see the EU is hoping to make a decision on your vaccine by the 29th as well. Are those doses potentially from the same supplier or are they going to be supplied from other sites elsewhere

It is a dedicated supply chain and our ability to commit to that 100 million doses is not affected by approval status in other supply chains.

Note the way that he is explicit about the 100 million doses.

On a side note, the EU pre-ordered a considerable amount of doses, did it explicitly fund manufacturing because I remember seeing before that the EU is paying less for doses than the UK, and since Astra Zeneca is obliged in their deal with Oxford (who hold the IP I think) too only charge costs, how did this occur if the EU is also meant to have been funding manufacturing as well as the doses delivery?

monkeybutter · 28-01-2021 10:56AM

mick087 wrote: »

So plan B is to wait on the other vaccines that have been ordered and produced. That's fair enough i accept that.

Would you know if they given us a date we can expect delivery of this vaccine so we can get on and vaccinate.?

i would say the answer is obvious on both of your points

why do you keep asking so many basic questions over and over

There is a plan, this is based on people delivering and why as said many times people promising on any timeline with many links in the chain is doomed to be wrong

hotmail.com · 28-01-2021 11:00AM

It looks like we'll eventually get the over supply from Britain.

I hope British people aren't reading the anti Brexit/Britain comments online and on our media. They may give it someone else.

mick087 · 28-01-2021 11:01AM

monkeybutter wrote: »

what is your plan b?

I'm not a member of the EU commission i don't have the powers or the resources for a Plan B this is currently the role of the EU commission .

if there's no vaccine about then there will be a delay
Yes i agree.

perhaps threats of a crippling lawsuit will change AZs tune
I have no idea the courts if it does go will decide.

are you willing to admit the EU did nothing wrong
IMO the EU commission was slow out the blocks and have messed up they hae still not passed this vaccine but we all have know that they will.

So no would not admit the EU commission did nothing wrong

average_runner · 28-01-2021 11:02AM

mick087 wrote: »

Remember this is an emergency situation.
Emergency measures are required.

The UK's chief medical officers have defended the Covid vaccination plan.
Are we being slow out the blocks again like the EU commission was on ordering this vaccine?

Yes its an emergency and also means no shortcuts.

UK medical officers also defended the plan for herd immunity last March.

What happens if they are wrong? They are back to square one.

josip · 28-01-2021 11:03AM

brickster69 wrote: »

Looks like Serbia are going full steam ahead.

https://twitter.com/marcusa38668771/status/1354734973484470272/photo/2

Serbia are going full steam ahead because they've gotten over 1 million doses of Coronavac from China.
Despite Vucic trying to take the credit for that supply, the reality is that there's a Serbian guy quite high up in Sinovac and he has ensured a large supply for Serbia.

Also in Serbia, you are allowed choose which of 3 vaccines you want, BioNTech, Sputnik or Coronavac.
But supplies of BioNTech are negligible compared to the other 2, so in reality it's a choice between Russian and Chinese.

This also is the reason why Orban has 'approved' Russian vaccines in Hungary.
Populist leaders hate it when a neighbouring country appears to be doing better.

begbysback · 28-01-2021 11:07AM

josip wrote: »

Serbia are going full steam ahead because they've gotten over 1 million doses of Coronavac from China.
Despite Vucic trying to take the credit for that supply, the reality is that there's a Serbian guy quite high up in Sinovac and he has ensured a large supply for Serbia.

Also in Serbia, you are allowed choose which of 3 vaccines you want, BioNTech, Sputnik or Coronavac.
But supplies of BioNTech are negligible compared to the other 2, so in reality it's a choice between Russian and Chinese.

This also is the reason why Orban has 'approved' Russian vaccines in Hungary.
Populist leaders hate it when a neighbouring country appears to be doing better.

Sputnik for me, definitely Sputnik, I don’t care if it works or not I just want to be able to say Sputnik in an everyday conversation.

monkeybutter · 28-01-2021 11:08AM

mick087 wrote: »

I'm not a member of the EU commission i don't have the powers or the resources for a Plan B this is currently the role of the EU commission .

if there's no vaccine about then there will be a delay
Yes i agree.

perhaps threats of a crippling lawsuit will change AZs tune
I have no idea the courts if it does go will decide.

are you willing to admit the EU did nothing wrong
IMO the EU commission was slow out the blocks and have messed up they hae still not passed this vaccine but we all have know that they will.

So no would not admit the EU commission did nothing wrong

how were they slow out of the blocks? what blocks

they are about to give out something to over 450 people do you think they should shortcut the process more?

would you then blame them if you mutated into a monkey?

They pre ordered and AZ failed to deliver

not much more than could do

mick087 · 28-01-2021 11:08AM

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

They are going to do everything in their power to force AZ to honour, or as close as possible to, the commitments they made in the contract and for which they already received hundreds of millions of the EU's euros.

Yes im sure the EU Commissionwill make a lot of noise.
I think this issue is very political now.

We need to move on there are other vaccines in the pipeline this is just the start. I just hope with the other vaccines coming all the loose ends are in order.

Pete_Cavan · 28-01-2021 11:09AM

Melanchthon wrote: »

Most likely scenario I can see is that.
If the UK has a guaranteed first preference on 30-100 million doses (not sure which number will come into play here) and the EU has an advanced purchase agreement subject to best efforts for 300 million doses with delivery of X amount in Q1 how do the contracts interact.

The contracts do not interact. AZ are bound by the terms of their contract with the EU which is entirely separate to any contract they have with the UK. The contracts sit side by side, not one before the other. They are also bound by the terms of their contract with the UK.

If, as it seems, AZ failed to disclose to the EU a clause in a pre-existing contract (that with the UK) which prevents them for fulfilling their contractual obligations to the EU, then they entered into the contract in bad faith which could have serious repercussions. No clause in the other contract (with the UK), limits their obligations in their contract with the EU.

They took EU money but the product is going elsewhere, this is looking dangerously close to a ponzi scheme.

Ash.J.Williams · 28-01-2021 11:12AM

hotmail.com wrote: »

Is Ireland going to ask for vaccines off Britain?

yes, it's in Britains interest after they have looked after their own to look after the border region

Pete_Cavan · 28-01-2021 11:13AM

mick087 wrote: »

Yes im sure the EU Commissionwill make a lot of noise.
I think this issue is very political now.

We need to move on there are other vaccines in the pipeline this is just the start. I just hope with the other vaccines coming all the loose ends are in order.

What does move on mean? Forget about the €300m already given to AZ and let people die while waiting for another vaccine?

mick087 · 28-01-2021 11:13AM

monkeybutter wrote: »

i would say the answer is obvious on both of your points
why do you keep asking so many basic questions over and oveR

There is a plan, this is based on people delivering and why as said many times people promising on any timeline with many links in the chain is doomed to be wrong

Yes i know there was a plan. Plan B means what is the plan if something in plan A goes wrong. Yes i agree many things in the pipeline an and do go wrong.

monkeybutter · 28-01-2021 11:18AM

mick087 wrote: »

Yes i know there was a plan. Plan B means what is the plan if something in plan A goes wrong. Yes i agree many things in the pipeline an and do go wrong.

what would suggest the plan b would be

say you have 100 vaccines, your plan A is to give 100 people that vaccine

the 100 vaccines are destroyed by an accident out of your control

whats the plan b

agoodpunt · 28-01-2021 11:18AM

It seems the brits wanted to rub salt into eu's wound saying they where holding out for a better price and a thankfully failed french vac "we won the bloody war " attitude to be fair they where quicker off the mark one of the advantages of independence
Also said went on to say we will help the eu when we have completed all our over 60's and vunerable.

CrabRevolution · 28-01-2021 11:18AM

Actually there's another contradiction on the anti-EU arguments.

We've been told for the last few weeks that we need to break ranks with the EU and offer a blank cheque to the vaccine makers to get a huge supply now. Yet apparently the order in which countries get vaccines is already set in stone based on when they signed their contracts starting last summer.

So if we have to wait for the previous contracts to be fulfilled before getting our own, how could we order any vaccines for delivery now?

And if we can order them now, doesn't that mean the order in which contracts are signed is irrelevant?

Which is it?

mick087 · 28-01-2021 11:20AM

monkeybutter wrote: »

how were they slow out of the blocks? what blocks

how were they slow out of the blocks? what blocks
This is an expression. It means they was slower than other countries to order.

they are about to give out something to over 450 people do you think they should shortcut the process more?
IMO its understandable yes. myself i would takethe Oxford vaccine today or last month if offered.

would you then blame them if you mutated into a monkey?
No i would not blame them if i mutated into a monkey.

They pre ordered and AZ failed to deliver
Yes that is correct AZ can not supply what the EU wanted.

not much more than could do
Why was the EU commission not buying this vaccine at the smae time the UK was?

ted1 · 28-01-2021 11:20AM

micks_address wrote: »

This all seems rather silly. How can you force someone to give you something they haven’t manufactured? The uk are ahead of the game because they approved and started using the product over a month ago. The eu can hardly blame a company for focusing their attention on a market actually using their product. It’s like lads we might approve use of your product at some point so you better meet our orders then or else

approval has nothing to do with it as there was a purchase agreement in place

Mitch Connor · 28-01-2021 11:22AM

CrabRevolution wrote: »

Actually there's another contradiction on the anti-EU arguments.

We've been told for the last few weeks that we need to break ranks with the EU and offer a blank cheque to the vaccine makers to get a huge supply now. Yet apparently the order in which countries get vaccines is already set in stone based on when they signed their contracts starting last summer.

So if we have to wait for the previous contracts to be fulfilled before getting our own, how could we order any vaccines for delivery now?

And if we can order them now, doesn't that mean the order in which contracts are signed is irrelevant?

Which is it?

Ireland do have a big pharma sector.
Would it be possible to get that sector to work in supplying vaccines for Ireland?

I'm not saying we should break rank - but is there the ability in Ireland to produce what is needed rather than having to import from elsewhere or line up behind other contracts? Could we contract a bio firm 'somewhere' in ireland to start manufacturing?

monkeybutter · 28-01-2021 11:23AM

CrabRevolution wrote: »

Actually there's another contradiction on the anti-EU arguments.

We've been told for the last few weeks that we need to break ranks with the EU and offer a blank cheque to the vaccine makers to get a huge supply now. Yet apparently the order in which countries get vaccines is already set in stone based on when they signed their contracts starting last summer.

So if we have to wait for the previous contracts to be fulfilled before getting our own, how could we order any vaccines for delivery now?

And if we can order them now, doesn't that mean the order in which contracts are signed is irrelevant?

Which is it?

you can't

its obvious

they are lying to you

monkeybutter · 28-01-2021 11:27AM

mick087 wrote: »

how were they slow out of the blocks? what blocks
This is an expression. It means they was slower than other countries to order.

they are about to give out something to over 450 people do you think they should shortcut the process more?
IMO its understandable yes. myself i would takethe Oxford vaccine today or last month if offered.

would you then blame them if you mutated into a monkey?
No i would not blame them if i mutated into a monkey.

They pre ordered and AZ failed to deliver
Yes that is correct AZ can not supply what the EU wanted.

not much more than could do
Why was the EU commission not buying this vaccine at the smae time the UK was?

but you would be a monkey all the same

when did the eu order and when did the uk? would you promise me that AZ would have been able to deliver? would they still have taken it from the UK plants or the EU ones

mick087 · 28-01-2021 11:31AM

average_runner wrote: »

Yes its an emergency .

Yes its an emergency means no shortcuts.
Well we will not agree on this.

UK medical officers also defended the plan for herd immunity last March.
We are heading for herd immunity through infection and vaccines

What happens if they are wrong? They are back to square one.
Yes if it goes wrong we are back to square one your right. But we are still at square so far each time we moved forward we have moved backwards very quick. We simply carn't go on living like this. Yes some can wait it out in there nice safe working from there comfortable homes. Others are not so lucky.

Pete_Cavan · 28-01-2021 11:32AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Ireland do have a big pharma sector.
Would it be possible to get that sector to work in supplying vaccines for Ireland?

I'm not saying we should break rank - but is there the ability in Ireland to produce what is needed rather than having to import from elsewhere or line up behind other contracts? Could we contract a bio firm 'somewhere' in ireland to start manufacturing?

Are you suggesting Ireland can force private pharma companies to manufacture products for which they don't have a licence for, and possibly not even the formula, which would almost certainly see them face huge copyright infringement claims and lose all licences they have to operate? I think there are some flaws in there somewhere.

emmalynn19 · 28-01-2021 11:32AM

https://twitter.com/NaomiOhReally/status/1354728336329744385

Some eye-opening stuff in this twitter thread

What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

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