Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII Read OP For Mod Warnings

Graham · 28-01-2021 10:43AM

and the mortality rate would be much worse if we'd overwhelmed the health services.

Allinall · 28-01-2021 10:45AM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

You are right. this truly is an unprecedented hysteria for a very mild virus with 0.2% mortality rate.

Resulting in no excess deaths.

Where is the cost benefit analysis of a lockdown? How can you accept such damage to the nation, to children's education, to employment, to way of life without a cost benefit analysis of what we are doing?? Does it not concern you that all that politicians have done is been talking to Irish Times and Independent, since March?

Disgraceful.

Any evidence to back up this ridiculous claim?

Windmill100000 · 28-01-2021 10:46AM

We know what the mortality rate is when we lockdown because we have. We don't know what it would be without it. Christmas gave us a good glimpse though. Had we stayed open in January God only knows what we would be dealing with.

beauf · 28-01-2021 10:47AM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

You are right. this truly is an unprecedented hysteria for a very mild virus with 0.2% mortality rate...

So you reckon the only impact of this is mortality. You're be happy if your employer or the health service said anyone with Covid cannot take sick leave and has to come into work regardless of how sick they are.

uli84 · 28-01-2021 10:50AM

So how many months more i have to wait to buy a desk chair for my kid from Ikea? Or to be able to go and collect the item I bought on adverts?

beauf · 28-01-2021 10:51AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No. And nor should government policy makers.

I see so for insurance you choose the best case scenario and don't buy any ever. You want the govt to operate on that basis.

Boggles · 28-01-2021 10:51AM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

You are right. this truly is an unprecedented hysteria for a very mild virus with 0.2% mortality rate.

.2% of the population of Belgium has died, with the vast majority not having contracted Covid.

Your opinion is more suited to the conspiracy forum than reality TBH.

You'd probably get more joy there if you want to continue to indulged in your folly.

Windmill100000 · 28-01-2021 10:53AM

uli84 wrote: »

So how many months more i have to wait to buy a desk chair for my kid from Ikea? Or to be able to go and collect the item I bought on adverts?

You might need to see a psychic for those answers. No one here will know. But can't you order online from Ikea?

beauf · 28-01-2021 10:56AM

uli84 wrote: »

So how many months more i have to wait to buy a desk chair for my kid from Ikea? Or to be able to go and collect the item I bought on adverts?

Well the last time you could do most of this was 1 month ago. I've bought office chairs and sold things on adverts I've the past few months as restrictions allowed. Currently waiting on another chair set delivery. But that's caught up in Brexit.

Dunno why it's taken you months but it wasn't due to the restrictions.

beauf · 28-01-2021 10:59AM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

You are right. this truly is an unprecedented hysteria for a very mild virus with 0.2% mortality rate...

That filled the ICU capacity including the surge capacity after only 3 weeks of restrictions being lifted.

What else has done this...

SAMTALK · 28-01-2021 11:03AM

beauf wrote: »

That filled the ICU capacity including the surge capacity after only 3 weeks of restrictions being lifted.

What else has done this...

without restrictions this would have become a massive issue but some people just don't get that (or want to )

CrabRevolution · 28-01-2021 11:09AM

SAMTALK wrote: »

without restrictions this would have become a massive issue but some people just don't get that (or want to )

I'm curious to know how the "0.2% mortality, so open up and let her rip" crowd picture how that would work out.

Say we opened up today, and stopped testing for Covid at all or bothering to count deaths. Our cases and death rates would drop to 0, but hospitals would still be full and the health system would still collapse within weeks.

Now I'm sure we'll be told "just build bigger hospitals/protect the vulnerable etc." but if it's that straightforward why has no country on earth managed it?

francogarbanzo · 28-01-2021 11:10AM

SAMTALK wrote: »

without restrictions this would have become a massive issue but some people just don't get that (or want to )

Can somebody please outline specifically what happens in the case of the health system being overwhelmed? Has anyone even given us a model of the consequences of opening completely?

For how long would it be overwhelmed? What are we actually trying to avoid? What is the number of additional deaths we would incur from this overwhelming?

Windmill100000 · 28-01-2021 11:13AM

francogarbanzo wrote: »

Can somebody please outline specifically what happens in the case of the health system being overwhelmed? Has anyone even given us a model of the consequences of opening completely?

For how long would it be overwhelmed? What are we actually trying to avoid? What is the number of additional deaths we would incur from this overwhelming?

It's not just about deaths from covid. If all hospitals are at capacity those needing to go to them for any reason wont get the bed they need. There will be deaths from that, not just an increase in deaths from covid because its spreading without lockdown.

Captain_Crash · 28-01-2021 11:13AM

CrabRevolution wrote: »

Now I'm sure we'll be told "just build bigger hospitals/protect the vulnerable etc." but if it's that straightforward why has no country on earth managed it?

Well to be fair! We were told at the very beginning that we have to do this to buy time for the HSE to increase capacity, and didn’t we build a field hospital in Limerick? Only to close it in the summer? I think one of our problems is that HSE management couldn’t run a bath and because so many wards were turned into “covid” wards, capacity was possibly reduced not increased!

OldRio · 28-01-2021 11:16AM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

You are right. this truly is an unprecedented hysteria for a very mild virus with 0.2% mortality rate.

Resulting in no excess deaths.

Where is the cost benefit analysis of a lockdown? How can you accept such damage to the nation, to children's education, to employment, to way of life without a cost benefit analysis of what we are doing?? Does it not concern you that all that politicians have done is been talking to Irish Times and Independent, since March?

Disgraceful.

Thís is parody? Please tell me it is. I mean nobody could write such bollox and mean it.

Boggles · 28-01-2021 11:18AM

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Well to be fair! We were told at the very beginning that we have to do this to buy time for the HSE to increase capacity, and didn’t we build a field hospital in Limerick? Only to close it in the summer? I think one of our problems is that HSE management couldn’t run a bath and because so many wards were turned into “covid” wards, capacity was possibly reduced not increased!

Field hospitals are useless unless you have the staff to man them.

England found this out the hard and expensive way.

TBF they too thought they were dealing with a "mild" respiratory illness, not a multi organ illness at the time.

completedit · 28-01-2021 11:19AM

francogarbanzo wrote: »

Can somebody please outline specifically what happens in the case of the health system being overwhelmed? Has anyone even given us a model of the consequences of opening completely?

For how long would it be overwhelmed? What are we actually trying to avoid? What is the number of additional deaths we would incur from this overwhelming?

There was an article on the guardian about this. I'm against the measures on an intuitive level but the Guardian article was very comprehensive and matter of fact in what a collapsing health care system looks like. From what I gather, the system doesn't collapse, that's hyperbole to drum people into compliance but essentially, medical professionals have to inact a large scale triaging of patients. This happens already but with Covid, given the infection rate, it would be something that they'd be facing everyday on an ongoing basis.

I'll find the link.

Ginger n Lemon · 28-01-2021 11:20AM

OldRio wrote: »

Thís is parody? Please tell me it is. I mean nobody could write such bollox and mean it.

Asking for cost benefit analysis of a lockdown is bollox?

Ginger n Lemon · 28-01-2021 11:21AM

completedit wrote: »

There was an article on the guardian about this. I'm against the measures on an intuitive level but the Guardian article was very comprehensive and matter of fact in what a collapsing health care system looks like. From what I gather, the system doesn't collapse, that's hyperbole to drum people into compliance but essentially, medical professionals have to inact a large scale triaging of patients. This happens already but with Covid, given the infection rate, it would be something that they'd be facing everyday on an ongoing basis.

I'll find the link.

Some will not like the sound of that.

But but Northern Italy? But but Brazil mass graves? :rolleyes:

OldRio · 28-01-2021 11:27AM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Asking for cost benefit analysis of a lockdown is bollox?

It is.
Anyway I'll bid you adou. Life's to short to spend time with the likes of yourself and the other conspiracy nutters.

Ginger n Lemon · 28-01-2021 11:33AM

OldRio wrote: »

It is.
Anyway I'll bid you adou. Life's to short to spend time with the likes of yourself and the other conspiracy nutters.

Never thought that I'd talk to a person who does not look for cost benefit analysis of government actions that affect millions of people.

but here I am.

Thankfully conversation was brief.

Lundstram · 28-01-2021 11:34AM

Been saying it time and time again, people have this image in their head that our hospitals resemble a scene from a WW1 epic. That’s what their fed in the media. Twitter and FB is full of nurses posting dramatic images of themselves with marked faces from face coverings usually followed by a sympathy garnering text. Anthony O’Connor or what ever his name is was a prime example of this. He averaged about 20 Tweets a day while claiming to be run off his feet. Absolute nonsense but people lap it up.

Everything is viewed through a prism of Covid19, everything.

We are utterly obsessed with this thing.

Paul Reid bragging yesterday about reaching 3M tests. This is a man who has presided over one of the most funded health services in Europe and yet we have the longest wait times and among the worst ICU capacities in the world, not Europe, the world. That man takes home close to €200k per year with zero accountability.

Our government has failed us, we have endured the toughest restriction in Europe since this began and we continue to. I believe we are the only country in Europe to ban construction and ban special needs kids from attending school.

They have the vast majority of citizens blaming other ordinary people for this mess.

Deflection from their incompetence.

SAMTALK · 28-01-2021 11:36AM

Lundstram wrote: »

Been saying it time and time again, people have this image in their head that our hospitals resemble a scene from a WW1 epic. .

No they dont. Please give people some credit

What we do see is a health service under pressure

facehugger99 · 28-01-2021 11:40AM

SAMTALK wrote: »

What we do see is a health service under pressure

So, basically just a normal winter then.

francogarbanzo · 28-01-2021 11:40AM

Windmill100000 wrote: »

It's not just about deaths from covid. If all hospitals are at capacity those needing to go to them for any reason wont get the bed they need. There will be deaths from that, not just an increase in deaths from covid because its spreading without lockdown.

Yes I understand that, my question is what are the specifics around that? For example, how many more deaths would occur due to people not getting a bed?

From my experience, the conversation about whether or not we should have lockdowns always stops at the "but we must not overwhelm the health system, otherwise it will collapse" point. But what I'm starting to understand is, well, yes, what if that happens? What specifically are we talking about, how long would it last, and is it worse than the damage caused by lockdowns? Is the juice worth the squeeze?

Maybe the answer is Yes. I don't know. I'm only bringing it up because it's difficult to say which is preferable when no specifics have been presented, only the spectre of "no capacity!"

francogarbanzo · 28-01-2021 11:40AM

completedit wrote: »

There was an article on the guardian about this. I'm against the measures on an intuitive level but the Guardian article was very comprehensive and matter of fact in what a collapsing health care system looks like. From what I gather, the system doesn't collapse, that's hyperbole to drum people into compliance but essentially, medical professionals have to inact a large scale triaging of patients. This happens already but with Covid, given the infection rate, it would be something that they'd be facing everyday on an ongoing basis.

I'll find the link.

Yes, please! I'd really like to know what it is we're trying to avoid, with specifics.

Lundstram · 28-01-2021 11:41AM

SAMTALK wrote: »

No they dont. Please give people some credit

What we do see is a health service under pressure

It’s not though. Go look at some numbers instead of posting random nonsense about stuff you know nothing about.

Our hospital numbers are falling rapidly. Our case numbers have fallen 80% in two weeks.

Another poster posting rhetoric without actually looking at numbers. It’s rife in this thread.

Graham · 28-01-2021 11:42AM

Lundstram wrote: »

We are utterly obsessed with this thing.

Speak for yourself.

Most people I know just take the appropriate precautions and get on with things in as much as they can.

Maybe you could take up a hobby or start a distance learning course to distract yourself from it for a while.

polesheep · 28-01-2021 11:43AM

SAMTALK wrote: »

No they dont. Please give people some credit

What we do see is a health service under pressure

A lot do actually. My wife, a nurse, hears it all the time. She's always getting sympathy texts. Finds them funny.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII Read OP For Mod Warnings