What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

Donald Trump · 28-01-2021 02:33AM

mick087 wrote: »

Yes 90% of people not only in Ireland but all EU states in fact all countries around the world don't care about the politics they just want the vaccine.

We in Europe will or should have the vaccine sometime this year.

Some countries id say could be waiting years i hope not but it could be the case.
Its not just the EU messed up all countries have, this should of been and could of been a joint effort from the start. We now have seen that there was a race to get the vaccine and our representatives was late out the starting block.
There are other vaccines that will be coming out, when i don't know but hopefully lessons have been learned.

You're all over the place to be fair there Mick. Moaning about the EU and saying it shouldn't be centralised but then the next minute calling for a joint effort.

gally74 · 28-01-2021 07:13AM

ITV having a field day this morning..... Big EU..... we were right, sickening

Jim_2021 · 28-01-2021 08:24AM

Whatever has happened to cause this situation, it will not be solved by the kind of contract management tactics that the EU are currently engaged in.
They are certainly showing a level of inexperience, asking for the contract to be published and such like.
The steam needs to be taken out of this and negotiations conducted behind closed doors to reach some kind of compromise. It won’t be solved and will only deteriorate if they (both sides) continue on their current path.
The kind of bombastic jingoism on display in the UK is not helpful either.

Mr.Wemmick · 28-01-2021 08:44AM

Jim_2021 wrote: »

Whatever has happened to cause this situation, it will not be solved by the kind of contract management tactics that the EU are currently engaged in.
They are certainly showing a level of inexperience, asking for the contract to be published and such like.
The steam needs to be taken out of this and negotiations conducted behind closed doors to reach some kind of compromise. It won’t be solved and will only deteriorate if they (both sides) continue on their current path.
The kind of bombastic jingoism on display in the UK is not helpful either.

The EU have lives to save. They are in a hurry, and considering the lies and propaganda they have had put up with since 2016, I'd say they are in no mood for games with something as serious as vaccines and their paid-for contractual order. Do you actually think they haven't tried to handle this behind close doors, asked where their order is and expect clarity and transparent answers?

For the EU TO speak about this openly smacks of of dirty game playing by AZ. They are not being transparent.

South Africa put their order in late and have received 1m doses this week, so what gives?

Kermit.de.frog · 28-01-2021 08:48AM

gally74 wrote: »

ITV having a field day this morning..... Big EU..... we were right, sickening

Of course. It's a massive propaganda victory for Brexit Britain. The rights and wrongs don't matter. The actual story would not matter.

The fact is in the eyes of people across the EU the UK is filling up with vaccines and getting them out swiftly while their countries under EU guidance are stumbling from mess to mess and countries doing their own thing now.

Brussels has ballsed this up.

enfant terrible · 28-01-2021 08:59AM

gally74 wrote: »

ITV having a field day this morning..... Big EU..... we were right, sickening

If it was the other way around our media would be rubbing it in their face the exact same way and everyone on here would be laughing at brexit Britain messing up their first challenge.

listermint · 28-01-2021 08:59AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Of course. It's a massive propaganda victory for Brexit Britain. The rights and wrongs don't matter. The actual story would not matter.

The fact is in the eyes of people across the EU the UK is filling up with vaccines and getting them out swiftly while their countries under EU guidance are stumbling from mess to mess and countries doing their own thing now.

Brussels has ballsed this up.

It's a distraction and it's backed up by a Tory press machine. The Tory's have successfully contributed to the deaths of over 100,000 Britain's in less than 11 months. And people are on here heralding how great they are.

They're laughing at you. Absolutely laughing at you, and you'll lap it up like it's water from a dog bowl.

Gas stuff altogether. All they have to do is throw a big bone over there and then over there and you'll run after it.

listermint · 28-01-2021 09:00AM

enfant terrible wrote: »

If it was the other way around our media would be rubbing it in their face the exact same way and everyone on here would be laughing at brexit Britain messing up their first challenge.

They wouldn't though. We don't have the same media Machine over here. The UK media is a sight to behold . If you don't know that you aren't consuming much of it.

Jim_2021 · 28-01-2021 09:01AM

Mr.Wemmick wrote: »

The EU have lives to save. They are in a hurry, and considering the lies and propaganda they have had put up with since 2016, I'd say they are in no mood for games with something as serious as vaccines and their paid-for contractual order. Do you actually think they haven't tried to handle this behind close doors, asked where their order is and expect clarity and transparent answers?

For the EU TO speak about this openly smacks of of dirty game playing by AZ. They are not being transparent.

South Africa put their order in late and have received 1m doses this week, so what gives?

Obviously the objective is mass vaccination which will be achieved by a rollout of vaccines without delay, however unless we were directly involved, we can only assume what has been said or done between both parties.
In situations of extreme pressure, people can do unexpected things or take unusual positions which would not represent their normal views or actions.
Agree that there is a certain degree of blame on both sides here, however my point is that it needs to be taken behind closed doors to resolve.

NIMAN · 28-01-2021 09:03AM

Let's be honest, its AZ that hold all the power in this argument.

The EU commission can huff and puff all they want, but its not like they can cancel orders or anything, they need AZ.

Dempo1 · 28-01-2021 09:03AM

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

The EU wants Britain's stock because Britain were given the EU's stock. Should the EU just accept a much slower vaccination program and associated deaths?

How exactly do you work out Britain got EU stock exactly? Britain's contract with AZ is an entirely seperate issue. Whilst there are those who now seem determined to blame the brits on this fiasco, their supplies are manufactured in Britain and supplied to Britain. Its an astonishing and childish argument from the EU, we want your vaccines or we'll throw our toys out of the pram. Nigel Farrage must be wetting himself with glee.

Whilst I accept EU could have expected to get its supplies from anywhere in the world, they clearly forgot one little detail, Brexit.

I'm also curious that the EU are demanding AZ publish the contract, I've a better Idea, how about the EU publish the contract if they are so adament they are in the right here?

The EU have clearly not crossed their T"s and went about making widely ambitious promises they can not keep and seem intent on blaming AZ for their acute ineptitude.

The EU will of course get their allocation but will just have to wait, it's really a matter of supply & demand, an amazing concept that's been around for 100"s of years.

Kermit.de.frog · 28-01-2021 09:05AM

@listermint

You can say that but the fact is UK is distributing vaccines faster and more efficiently than the rest of us.

listermint · 28-01-2021 09:06AM

Dempo1 wrote: »

How exactly do you work out Britain got EU stock exactly? Britain's contract with AZ is an entirely seperate issue. Whilst there are those who now seem determined to blame the brits on this fiasco, their supplies are manufactured in Britain and supplied to Britain. Its an astonishing and childish argument from the EU, we want your vaccines or we'll throw our toys out of the pram. Nigel Farrage must be wetting himself with glee.

Whilst I accept EU could have expected to get its supplies from anywhere in the world, they clearly forgot one little detail, Brexit.

I'm also curious that the EU are demanding AZ publish the contract, I've a better Idea, how about the EU publish the contract if they are so adament they are in the right here?

The EU have clearly not crossed their T"s and went about making widely ambitious promises they can not keep and seem intent on blaming AZ for their acute ineptitude.

The EU will of course get their allocation but will just have to wait, it's really a matter of supply & demand, an amazing concept that's been around for 100"s of years.

You're clueless about contracts and lapping up nonsense. There's things called NDAs off you tot there and read up on them.

The EU have said they will forfeit their side of the NDA and want AZ to do the same.

Now assuming you've now read what an NDA is youll see why they want AZ to publish.

Next up you'll probably want to actually read the contract before spouting more nonsense that you have zero insight in. With gusto...

mick087 · 28-01-2021 09:08AM

Donald Trump wrote: »

You're all over the place to be fair there Mick. Moaning about the EU and saying it shouldn't be centralised but then the next minute calling for a joint effort.

No i said from the start it should be a world wide effort but it wasn't.

The EU commission are our representative on acquiring the vaccine.

On the AZ vaccine EU commission IMO have failed us.

We are not going to get what AZ first told us so lets hope the EU commission have plan B.

listermint · 28-01-2021 09:11AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

@listermint

You can say that but the fact is UK is distributing vaccines faster and more efficiently than the rest of us.

No I can't say that and you brush it aside. The Tory party have facilitated over 100k deaths and your heralding them.

Who's being played here. You!

But you love it. It's incredible to watch the level of dissonance you can get to , to brush aside city level populations disappearing in under a year.

Ah but forget that. Theyre great they are giving people half vaccines.

These Muppets starved NHS staff of PPE, wages and pretended this was all fake right up to about June last year. But let's clap them.

Gufffawww

Dyr · 28-01-2021 09:14AM

Who would imagine that an international beauraucracy whchh lacks governmental oversight could royally screw something up?

28-01-2021 09:18AM

Its hilarious the amount of posters who think just because the EU's vaccine process has not been successful, that AZ can't be in the wrong.

Its absolutely possible that the EU's process hasn't been perfect and that AZ are screwing them over. Why is that so difficult to comprehend?

Happydays2020 · 28-01-2021 09:19AM

NIMAN wrote: »

Let's be honest, its AZ that hold all the power in this argument.

The EU commission can huff and puff all they want, but its not like they can cancel orders or anything, they need AZ.

The AZ board and shareholders may well take a different view.

28-01-2021 09:20AM

Dempo1 wrote: »

How exactly do you work out Britain got EU stock exactly? Britain's contract with AZ is an entirely seperate issue. Whilst there are those who now seem determined to blame the brits on this fiasco, their supplies are manufactured in Britain and supplied to Britain. Its an astonishing and childish argument from the EU, we want your vaccines or we'll throw our toys out of the pram. Nigel Farrage must be wetting himself with glee.

Whilst I accept EU could have expected to get its supplies from anywhere in the world, they clearly forgot one little detail, Brexit.

I'm also curious that the EU are demanding AZ publish the contract, I've a better Idea, how about the EU publish the contract if they are so adament they are in the right here?

The EU have clearly not crossed their T"s and went about making widely ambitious promises they can not keep and seem intent on blaming AZ for their acute ineptitude.

The EU will of course get their allocation but will just have to wait, it's really a matter of supply & demand, an amazing concept that's been around for 100"s of years.

If you took 2 minutes out of your time from frothing your mouth, it would become abundantly clear why the EU are asking AZ to publish the contract. It would be illegal for the EU to publish and contract without consent from the other party.

Hence the EU asking, and AZ's silence on publishing the contract speaks volumes.

Happydays2020 · 28-01-2021 09:21AM

Bambi wrote: »

Who would imagine that an international beauraucracy whchh lacks governmental oversight could royally screw something up?

AZ are a business. Not quite sure I would describe them as an International bureaucracy.

mick087 · 28-01-2021 09:21AM

listermint wrote: »

It's a distraction and it's backed up by a Tory press machine. The Tory's have successfully contributed to the deaths of over 100,000 Britain's in less than 11 months. And people are on here heralding how great they are.

They're laughing at you. Absolutely laughing at you, and you'll lap it up like it's water from a dog bowl.

Gas stuff altogether. All they have to do is throw a big bone over there and then over there and you'll run after it.

To be fair many countries in Europe death rates are not good and i don't think anyone is laughing at anyone about this.

When the dust settles and investigations have been done im sure the death rates in most if not all are going to look worse

Feisar · 28-01-2021 09:22AM

Perfidious Albion wasn't coined for no reason. To be fair, if there was a vaccine being made in Ireland there's no way it'd be put on a boat if I was in charge here.

micks_address · 28-01-2021 09:25AM

This all seems rather silly. How can you force someone to give you something they haven’t manufactured? The uk are ahead of the game because they approved and started using the product over a month ago. The eu can hardly blame a company for focusing their attention on a market actually using their product. It’s like lads we might approve use of your product at some point so you better meet our orders then or else

mick087 · 28-01-2021 09:31AM

listermint wrote: »

Theyre great they are giving people half vaccines.
Gufffawww

Apparently the delay in vaccine doses with this particular vaccine is actually more effective 12 weeks apart. We might all end up following this path.

average_runner · 28-01-2021 09:33AM

The biggest problem is, the EU looks to be too slow with all the vaccines.
Ireland needs to figure out their own problem on how to get more vaccines quickly

28-01-2021 09:33AM

micks_address wrote: »

This all seems rather silly. How can you force someone to give you something they haven’t manufactured? The uk are ahead of the game because they approved and started using the product over a month ago. The eu can hardly blame a company for focusing their attention on a market actually using their product. It’s like lads we might approve use of your product at some point so you better meet our orders then or else

AZ only applied for EMA approval on 12th Jan, and there have been major gaps in the data they have been providing. Not to mention the accidental discovery of the best dosing schedule. They haven't handled this perfectly either.

Mitch Connor · 28-01-2021 09:34AM

micks_address wrote: »

This all seems rather silly. How can you force someone to give you something they haven’t manufactured? The uk are ahead of the game because they approved and started using the product over a month ago. The eu can hardly blame a company for focusing their attention on a market actually using their product. It’s like lads we might approve use of your product at some point so you better meet our orders then or else

i would agree if it was the case the EU would pay for the agreed shipments when they were delivered in Feb/March - but the EU has already paid.

They got their money so it shouldn't matter if the UK were already in action, the should have been working to facilitate the contracts they signed.

average_runner · 28-01-2021 09:35AM

mick087 wrote: »

Apparently the delay in vaccine doses with this particular vaccine is actually more effective 12 weeks apart. We might all end up following this path.

There is no evidence from the trial to show this. UK are taking a gamble here.
We should go by what the trial showed and no shortcuts

mick087 · 28-01-2021 09:38AM

AdamD wrote: »

Its absolutely possible that the EU's process hasn't been perfect and that AZ are screwing them over. Why is that so difficult to comprehend?

No to many its not possible that the EU process hasn't been perfect.

Renault 5 · 28-01-2021 09:40AM

micks_address wrote: »

This all seems rather silly. How can you force someone to give you something they haven’t manufactured? The uk are ahead of the game because they approved and started using the product over a month ago. The eu can hardly blame a company for focusing their attention on a market actually using their product. It’s like lads we might approve use of your product at some point so you better meet our orders then or else

But thats not how it was.

EU requested months ago for AZ to have 80m doses ready within Q1 and another 80m doses ready for Q2.

This is an agreement the EU had with AZ which AZ are not denying.

AZ are confirming this by telling the EU that they will only receive 30% of what was agreed

What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

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