Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII Read OP For Mod Warnings

growleaves · 28-01-2021 01:17AM

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/extra.ie/2019/12/07/news/politics/landlord-tds-housing-homeless/amp

Amazing how Jacinta from down the road and Facebook gets away with brainwashing and fake news.

All relates to how people vote.

Fake news i think someone once said.

Right and how many of them are holders of assets, of which rental properties are only one kind? Stocks. Artworks. Etc.

A TD's salary is the jumping-off point for entry into the ownership class.

QE, with covid restrictions as its latest justification, inflates assets.

Added to which, covid-lockdown restrictions are a blazing fire burning down SMEs and leading to pay cuts and pay freezes.

It is the exacerbation of the wealth gap and the burden of cost of living which will funnel us into socialism - when too many ordinary people find their own pauperisation unbearable.

Jinglejangle69 · 28-01-2021 01:17AM

growleaves wrote: »

Right and how many of them are holders of assets, of which rental properties are only one kind? Stocks. Artworks. Etc.

A TD's salary is the jumping-off point for entry into the ownership class.

QE, with covid restrictions as its latest justification, inflates assets.

Added to which, covid-lockdown restrictions are a blazing fire burning down SMEs and leading to pay cuts and pay freezes.

It is the exacerbation of the wealth gap and the burden of cost of living which will funnel us into socialism - when too many ordinary people find their own pauperisation unbearable.

No idea.

Care to enlighten me?

Captain_Crash · 28-01-2021 01:20AM

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Stick to your guess.

Which was an utter failure.

All you had to do was Google but its better to have a rant about da gubberment and spread lies ay:)

I asked a question, you not gonna answer? I’m a spoofer according to you... which is fair. I made a guess (and made it clear it was a guess) and was 100% out, I hold my hand up! So are the crowd who predicted 90K dead spoofers too? Or do they get a pass?

beauf · 28-01-2021 01:20AM

Captain_Crash wrote: »

To be fair, I did say it was a guess!

But sure using that logic I’m sure you agree NPHET/government/RTE/Lee ect are spoofers, considering the untold number of deaths they predicted yeah?

Is this also a guess, or fact. I'm not sure there is a difference in this thread.

beauf · 28-01-2021 01:21AM

Captain_Crash wrote: »

I asked a question, you not gonna answer? I’m a spoofer according to you... which is fair. I made a guess (and made it clear it was a guess) and was 100% out, I hold my hand up! So are the crowd who predicted 90K dead spoofers too? Or do they get a pass?

Is there any particular 90k you are referring to...

https://www.google.com/search?q=90k+dead&oq=90k+dead&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i22i30l2.1736j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

growleaves · 28-01-2021 01:25AM

Health Minister Simon Harris said that he is taking seriously the advice of disease expert who predicted there could be between 80,000 and 120,000 deaths.

Link

Graham · 28-01-2021 01:27AM

growleaves wrote: »

Health Minister Simon Harris said that he is taking seriously the advice of disease expert who predicted there could be between 80,000 and 120,000 deaths.

Link

Which part of 'could be' is unclear?

ceadaoin. · 28-01-2021 01:27AM

beauf wrote: »

Ireland (Population density: 147 people per square mile)
North Dakota (Population density: 11 people per square mile)
South Dakota (Population density: 12 people per square mile)
Florida (Population density: 397.2 per square mile)
California (Population density: 252.74)

All very similar places. I can see why you'd compare them directly without context.

All those places indicate that restrictions on things like restaurants etc dont do much to change the course of the virus in the long run.

But ok, let's try new hampshire. Similar population density to Ireland. Fully open since June. Are cases spiraling out of control there? No, they arent.

beauf · 28-01-2021 01:30AM

I see so were assuming a possible "worst-case scenario" "could" happen as them saying it would "definitely" happen.

Par for the course for this thread.

showpony1 · 28-01-2021 01:34AM

Any chance of our Mental health centres aka gyms opening earlier than March 5?

Graham · 28-01-2021 01:34AM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

ok, let's try new hampshire. Similar population density to Ireland. Fully open since June. Are cases spiraling out of control there? No, they arent.

Largest city in New Hampshire; Manchester pop. 112,854

ceadaoin. · 28-01-2021 01:39AM

Graham wrote: »

Largest city in New Hampshire; Manchester pop. 112,854

That poster was on about population per square mile and how those places couldn't compare to Ireland. Ireland 147, New Hampshire 147

beauf · 28-01-2021 01:39AM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

All those places indicate that restrictions on things like restaurants etc dont do much to change the course of the virus in the long run.

But ok, let's try new hampshire. Similar population density to Ireland. Fully open since June. Are cases spiraling out of control there? No, they arent.

They have a 7 page document on restaurants.

https://www.covidguidance.nh.gov/sites/g/files/ehbemt381/files/files/inline-documents/guidance-restaurants.pdf

They are not fully open. They are partially open. Some actually specific 50% occupancy.

beauf · 28-01-2021 01:41AM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

That poster was on about population per square mile and how those places couldn't compare to Ireland. Ireland 147, New Hampshire 147

I was just pointing out its cherry picking numbers out of context, for sound bites. When you do even the slightest checking its never as stated.

ceadaoin. · 28-01-2021 01:43AM

beauf wrote: »

They have a 7 page document on restaurants.

https://www.covidguidance.nh.gov/sites/g/files/ehbemt381/files/files/inline-documents/guidance-restaurants.pdf

They are not fully open. They are partially open. Some actually specific 50% occupancy.

That's out of date, dated May 2020 from when they first reopened.

On August 24, Governor Sununu announced that all restaurants are now able to open at 100% capacity, as long as they continue to follow state reopening guidelines, including social distancing between parties and wearing masks in public areas. Prior to Governor Sununu’s Friday announcement, restaurants in six northern New Hampshire counties were able to operate at 100% capacity, but the southern counties (which had higher rates of COVID-19) were restricted to 50%.

Timeline here

https://www.huschblackwell.com/new-hampshire-state-by-state-covid-19-guidance

Even if it was 50%, it still indicates restaurants can open even partially and cases can be controlled. There is no evidence that complete closures are necessary. Its 25% where I live and it feels pretty normal.

Graham · 28-01-2021 01:47AM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

That poster was on about population per square mile and how those places couldn't compare to Ireland. Ireland 147, New Hampshire 147

New Hampshire certainly can't compare when discussing virus transmission. The bulk of the population is rural or small towns.

There's no point even pretending our population centres are anything even remotely approaching comparable.

beauf · 28-01-2021 01:54AM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

That's out of date, dated May 2020 from when they first reopened.

Timeline here

https://www.huschblackwell.com/new-hampshire-state-by-state-covid-19-guidance

Even if it was 50%, it still indicates restaurants can open even partially and cases can be controlled. There is no evidence that complete closures are necessary. Its 25% where I live and it feels pretty normal.

50% or indeed any restrictions, doesn't support your assertion that it demonstrates restaurants and similar, don't have an effect on the virus. That would require no restrictions.

ceadaoin. wrote: »

All those places indicate that restrictions on things like restaurants etc dont do much to change the course of the virus in the long run....

Arghus · 28-01-2021 01:56AM

It's great to know how they are getting on in North Hampshire and North Dakota and so on.

But I don't know why we all have to look so far afield in order to make an argument. We don't have to look much further than Ireland itself.

We opened up at the start of December and within three weeks we were experiencing the worst spike in Covid infections per capita in the world and immediately had to close again in order to bring the surge under control. This was then followed by a surge in hospitalisations and deaths far worse than anything we'd experienced up to that point. Maybe people haven't been paying attention, it often reads that way in here. But yes it did indeed happen in Ireland less than a month ago - if you can believe that!

I find it amazing that people are globetrotting to find statistics to suit their argument when we all know exactly what happened right in our backyard. We opened up and cases quickly went through the roof to an unsustainable level, we shut down again and cases drop.

Idbatterim · 28-01-2021 01:57AM

Silentcorner wrote: »

I took a gander at some media outlets this morning

One Front Page headline 3,000 Covid Deaths (what were they predicting a year ago? How many died because of covid?)

Irish Examiner - The next Pandemic is just around the corner (the article went on to say how it couldn't be ruled out)

The Journal - Should joggers wear masks

That was within a about 15 mins of each other that the above stood out.

I can only imagine the state of people who are reading that kind of content all day every day, it is not healthy...I am really concerned about the impact of all this media negativity, the virus isn't doing anywhere near the damage the hysteria is!!!!

Its comedy at this stage! Jesus god help us all of within our lifetime, if we are hit by something resembling even close to a serious virus!

beauf · 28-01-2021 01:59AM

Idbatterim wrote: »

Its comedy at this stage! Jesus god help us all of within our lifetime, if we are hit by something resembling even close to a serious virus!

They'll still be people wanting to go to the pub, on holidays and do whatever they heck the want. But be strangely unable to leave the house, or turn off the TV.

ceadaoin. · 28-01-2021 02:02AM

Arghus wrote: »

It's great to know how they are getting on in North Hampshire and North Dakota and so on.

But I don't know why we all have to look so far afield in order to make an argument. We don't have to look much further than Ireland itself.

We opened up at the start of December and within three weeks we were experiencing the worst spike in Covid infections per capita in the world and immediately had to close again in order to bring the surge under control. This was then followed by a surge in hospitalisations and deaths far worse than anything we'd experienced up to that point. Maybe people haven't been paying attention, it often reads that way in here.

I find it amazing that people are globetrotting to find statistics to suit their argument when we all know exactly what happened right in our backyard. We opened up and cases quickly went through the roof to an unsustainable level, we shut down again and cases drop.

I think the point is, rather than completely shutting off the tap and then turning it back on at full flow, a slow steady approach such as places being open with capacity limits and masking etc keep the spread manageable and is actually the definition of flatten the curve.

Even if ireland had never opened up for Christmas, the surge would have happened regardless as people got sick of the constant restrictions and simply stopped following them. California illustrates this perfectly IMO.

beauf · 28-01-2021 02:06AM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

I...
Even if ireland had never opened up for Christmas, the surge would have happened regardless as people got sick of the constant restrictions and simply stopped following them. California illustrates this perfectly IMO.

And yet putting in heavier restrictions dropped the numbers. Do people love restrictions again?

Maybe thats because the sales were dire. So its the sales dropping the numbers. Maybe the should open retail and it will drop the numbers. All hail retail.

wakka12 · 28-01-2021 02:21AM

Graham wrote: »

Which part of 'could be' is unclear?

Well clearly looking back now deaths of 80,000 in Ireland would be impossible under any circumstance, even if everyone in Ireland got it it wouldn't be that high. It was a massive overestimate, it would be very hard to see deaths ever go beyond about 20,000 even under the worst case scenario. No doubt it could certainly approach the region of 10,000 though based on some examples abroad but still a far cry from any of the earlier estimates.

South Dakot has been mentioned, SD saw about 0.2% of it's population die in excess over the last few months. So it's probably a pretty good ballpark estimate for what Ireland might have seen under a similar no ****s given scenario, equivalent of about 10,000 deaths here.

beauf · 28-01-2021 02:27AM

wakka12 wrote: »

Well clearly looking back now deaths of 80,000 in Ireland would be impossible under any circumstance...

That estimate was from Mar 11, 2020.

28-01-2021 05:56AM

Arghus wrote: »

It's great to know how they are getting on in North Hampshire and North Dakota and so on.

But I don't know why we all have to look so far afield in order to make an argument. We don't have to look much further than Ireland itself.

We opened up at the start of December and within three weeks we were experiencing the worst spike in Covid infections per capita in the world and immediately had to close again in order to bring the surge under control. This was then followed by a surge in hospitalisations and deaths far worse than anything we'd experienced up to that point. Maybe people haven't been paying attention, it often reads that way in here. But yes it did indeed happen in Ireland less than a month ago - if you can believe that!

I find it amazing that people are globetrotting to find statistics to suit their argument when we all know exactly what happened right in our backyard. We opened up and cases quickly went through the roof to an unsustainable level, we shut down again and cases drop.

Ah... If only everything was as simple as you try to make it sound.

Why did cases jump so quickly in Ireland? Would it
have anything to do with the fact that we had the longest and harshest lockdown in the world and our government literally relaxed some restrictions with a promise of months more lockdown again in 3 weeks time... Wonder why people took advantage.

You are technically right about cases dropping. But again, why do you actually think that is? January is historically a dead month for people. We aren’t bothered testing close contacts anymore. We told people with symptoms just to assume they have it. Testing has decreased. Shocker, cases have dropped. Still over a thousand a day mind you.

Anyone with half a brain cell can see that our approach is not working. Half a million out of work, kids not going to school. It seems like we need to stay in lockdown until everyone is vaccinated, if not even longer. If you’re following that situation, that could be 2022 before we reach that point.

This becomes more and more unsustainable with each passing day, in particular socially and economically. So of course people are going to look at the many examples of countries/states that have less restrictions and are doing much better.

We’ve done absolutely terrible so far considering how strict our approach has been and how young our population is. And when this finally ends, I’m sure we’ll have a much longer list of issues than other countries due to staying in prolonged lockdown

GazzaL · 28-01-2021 07:26AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah... If only everything was as simple as you try to make it sound.

Why did cases jump so quickly in Ireland? Would it
have anything to do with the fact that we had the longest and harshest lockdown in the world and our government literally relaxed some restrictions with a promise of months more lockdown again in 3 weeks time... Wonder why people took advantage.

You are technically right about cases dropping. But again, why do you actually think that is? January is historically a dead month for people. We aren’t bothered testing close contacts anymore. We told people with symptoms just to assume they have it. Testing has decreased. Shocker, cases have dropped. Still over a thousand a day mind you.

Anyone with half a brain cell can see that our approach is not working. Half a million out of work, kids not going to school. It seems like we need to stay in lockdown until everyone is vaccinated, if not even longer. If you’re following that situation, that could be 2022 before we reach that point.

This becomes more and more unsustainable with each passing day, in particular socially and economically. So of course people are going to look at the many examples of countries/states that have less restrictions and are doing much better.

We’ve done absolutely terrible so far considering how strict our approach has been and how young our population is. And when this finally ends, I’m sure we’ll have a much longer list of issues than other countries due to staying in prolonged lockdown

NPHET and the Government will keep moving the goalposts. 5th of March to St. Patrick's Day to Easter, and the next thing you know we'll be in January 2022. You're better off ignoring them and getting on with life, lots of people already are. This approach is crippling the economy, crippling children's education, crippling mental health, and generally crippling our society.

Penfailed · 28-01-2021 08:35AM

namloc1980 wrote: »

Don't think class action lawsuits are a thing in Irish law.

Only in test cases. This is one of those.

GazzaL · 28-01-2021 09:00AM

Great to see non-essential construction back this morning. You couldn't move in the garage with the amount of lads getting breakfast rolls, teas and coffees. It was at Celtic Tiger levels.

Graham · 28-01-2021 09:06AM

Well fair play to you GazzaL spending your time in the garage this morning interviewing the other customer about the nature of their employment.

hamburgham · 28-01-2021 09:10AM

Who can the mob target next?

Maybe the Gardai should go after fat people and force them to go on a diet in the interests of their own health.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII Read OP For Mod Warnings