All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

Thinkingaboutit · 26-01-2021 9:42am

All day curfews to stop a virus that only harms a small few with multiple vulnerabilities. Obviously they should not be forgotten, but measures related to them are surely not beyond the wits of our rulers? Maybe they are. Scum rising to the top and all that.

A fair few protests against further lockdowns overseas.

Sadly, as history shows, compared to the mass opening of bars and restaurants by Italian or a little bit of argy bargy in Eindhoven, a good many Irish people will sooner die in a ditch than make a fuss. I suppose too people see that most anti-lockdown protests get pummelled by Gardaí who escort BLM marchers trying to dox their colleagues online.

ShatterAlan · 26-01-2021 9:51am

EyesClosed wrote: »

OK... Firstly there is no curfew in Ireland... Secondly.. How does any of this relate to these restrictions being permanent?

There is a curfew in The Netherlands. I'm not saying that the curfew will be made permanent but there are huge numbers of Dutch people who don't trust the government and have shown this distrust with demonstrations over the last 3 days.

I don't think ALL restrictions will be permanent. Kids will need to go back to school. People will want to go to football matches and restaurants, but I can't help but think that there will be limitations and restrictions left in place even if they are totally meaningless and people will just go along with it because they are afraid of being labelled as a rebel or an upstart or a conspiracy theorist.

ShatterAlan · 26-01-2021 9:58am

Thinkingaboutit wrote: »

All day curfews to stop a virus that only harms a small few with multiple vulnerabilities. Obviously they should not be forgotten, but measures related to them are surely not beyond the wits of our rulers? Maybe they are. Scum rising to the top and all that.

A fair few protests against further lockdowns overseas.

Sadly, as history shows, compared to the mass opening of bars and restaurants by Italian or a little bit of argy bargy in Eindhoven, a good many Irish people will sooner die in a ditch than make a fuss. I suppose too people see that most anti-lockdown protests get pummelled by Gardaí who escort BLM marchers trying to dox their colleagues online.

Sadly that's the truth and they loathe those who do stand up for hat they believe because it exposes their own cowardice.

EyesClosed · 26-01-2021 9:58am

ShatterAlan wrote: »

There is a curfew in The Netherlands. I'm not saying that the curfew will be made permanent but there are huge numbers of Dutch people who don't trust the government and have shown this distrust with demonstrations over the last 3 days.

I don't think ALL restrictions will be permanent. Kids will need to go back to school. People will want to go to football matches and restaurants, but I can't help but think that there will be limitations and restrictions left in place even if they are totally meaningless and people will just go along with it because they are afraid of being labelled as a rebel or an upstart or a conspiracy theorist.

OK so all the nonsense about the curfew is totally irrelevant to the thread... Grand no need to talk about it here so.

What do you think will stay in place and why?

Personally if someone is sick in the future or I'm sick and getting a bus... I'll wear a mask.. Cause they work.

ShatterAlan · 26-01-2021 10:02am

EyesClosed wrote: »

OK so all the nonsense about the curfew is totally irrelevant to the thread... Grand no need to talk about it here so.

What do you think will stay in place and why?

Personally if someone is sick in the future or I'm sick and getting a bus... I'll wear a mask.. Cause they work.

Who said this thread only pertains to Ireland? And how do you know masks work? Even the experts can't seem to agree on that.

EyesClosed · 26-01-2021 10:03am

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Who said this thread only pertains to Ireland? And how do you know masks work? Even the experts can't seem to agree on that.

There's data and science behind masks working... I think you know this already.

The thread doesn't have to be just Ireland... But unless you have evidence that a curfew is going to be in place forever... Then it's irrelevant

runawaybishop · 26-01-2021 10:21am

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Sadly that's the truth and they loathe those who do stand up for hat they believe because it exposes their own cowardice.

More fantasist nonsense.

Fighting Tao · 26-01-2021 10:32am

runawaybishop wrote: »

More fantasist nonsense.

The truth for some people is far from the reality of the situation.

Dohnjoe · 26-01-2021 11:16am

ShatterAlan wrote: »

You're the one who doesn't understand. IF social distancing is effective at night then why not have people social distance at night instead of imposing a curfew on them which according to your expert knowledge of pandemics is to stop them mixing and socialising.
All you do is make excuse after excuse for nonsensical restrictions because you don't ever want to question the glorious government.

This is incomprehensible.

And you cherry pick the points I bring up. You do this time and again in every thread. It's mandatory to wear a mask in a shop but not in a church or temple. Where's the logic in that? And don't try to sidestep the question by demanding to know if I think it's a massive lizard-people style invasion of the body-snatchers hoax just to feel good about yourself or to ridicule the question because you can't answer it or you can't answer it with any semblence of sense.

Another bizarre strawman and rant.

As for church, it's not yet mandatory to wear masks, likewise in post offices, banks, dentists, medical appointments, restaurants, cafes.

Why? probably because there are so few people going to church now and those that do go are socially distancing and wearing masks anyway, so there's no requirement to make it mandatory.

runawaybishop · 26-01-2021 11:49am

Dohnjoe wrote: »

This is incomprehensible.

Another bizarre strawman and rant.

As for church, it's not yet mandatory to wear masks, likewise in post offices, banks, dentists, medical appointments, restaurants, cafes.

Why? probably because there are so few people going to church now and those that do go are socially distancing and wearing masks anyway, so there's no requirement to make it mandatory.

Correct, mass (lol) gatherings are banned and only private worship is allowed. In addition churches already have their own mask requirements in place. As well as that most churches are pretty big, social distancing for those that do go isn't difficult.

GT89 · 26-01-2021 1:28pm

The mandatory hotel quarantine sounds like an absolute joke read somewhere it said that the hotels would be policed by private security in the hotel. Private security have no powers of arrest or detention.

runawaybishop · 26-01-2021 1:32pm

GT89 wrote: »

The mandatory hotel quarantine sounds like an absolute joke read somewhere it said that the hotels would be policed by private security in the hotel. Private security have no powers of arrest or detention.

What has this got to do with the thread? Have you run out of conspiracies?

sabat · 26-01-2021 1:37pm

So do the pro-lockdown people have a date in mind for when they'll accept that this is permanent and try to do something about it? Society is being systematically destroyed while Varadkar mentioned Christmas restrictions last night.

PintOfView · 26-01-2021 2:01pm

sabat wrote: »

So do the pro-lockdown people have a date in mind for when they'll accept that this is permanent and try to do something about it? Society is being systematically destroyed while Varadkar mentioned Christmas restrictions last night.

What do you propose is the answer to the current situation?
Would you like the lockdown to be removed, and everything to return to normal?
If we did that, what do you think would happen to the numbers of Covid cases?

runawaybishop · 26-01-2021 2:03pm

sabat wrote: »

So do the pro-lockdown people have a date in mind for when they'll accept that this is permanent and try to do something about it? Society is being systematically destroyed while Varadkar mentioned Christmas restrictions last night.

There is zero indication that lockdown is permanent. Feel free to show any sort of evidence otherwise.

Timberrrrrrrr · 26-01-2021 2:06pm

GT89 wrote: »

The mandatory hotel quarantine sounds like an absolute joke read somewhere it said that the hotels would be policed by private security in the hotel. Private security have no powers of arrest or detention.

It worked in Australia, even Australians returning had to quarantine for 2 weeks

The Nal · 26-01-2021 2:21pm

No one has yet pointed out how permanent lockdowns benefit anyone.

Timberrrrrrrr · 26-01-2021 2:33pm

The Nal wrote: »

No one has yet pointed out how permanent lockdowns benefit anyone.

Or even how they would be implemented in a way that everyone would accept them.

King Mob · 26-01-2021 3:00pm

sabat wrote: »

Society is being systematically destroyed

Why do you believe "They" are trying to destroy society?

Dohnjoe · 26-01-2021 3:06pm

sabat wrote: »

So do the pro-lockdown people have a date in mind for when they'll accept that this is permanent and try to do something about it? Society is being systematically destroyed while Varadkar mentioned Christmas restrictions last night.

So many questions. Why is there a "date"? the lockdown is due to the virus. Are you claiming it's something else? if yes, what is that something else?

Fighting Tao · 26-01-2021 3:06pm

King Mob wrote: »

Why do you believe "They" are trying to destroy society?

Probably something something great reset that they haven’t read.

GT89 · 26-01-2021 3:59pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

It worked in Australia, even Australians returning had to quarantine for 2 weeks

Different legal system. I believe private security guards in shops and the like can carry firearms in Australia so probably have some sort of power. Private security have no power to arrest or detain people in Ireland bar citizens arrest.

Timberrrrrrrr · 26-01-2021 4:05pm

GT89 wrote: »

Different legal system. I believe private security guards in shops and the like can carry firearms in Australia so probably have some sort of power. Private security have no power to arrest or detain people in Ireland bar citizens arrest.

I'm on about mandatory hotel quarantine and I believe aussie security guards have the same powers as in Ireland, they can make a citizens arrest.

https://yla.org.au/wa/topics/courts-police-and-the-law/powers-of-security-guards/

A security guard, just like any other member of the public, can make a citizen’s arrest. A security guard or bouncer can arrest you if they reasonably suspect that you have committed a crime or are in the middle of committing a crime.

sabat · 26-01-2021 4:11pm

King Mob wrote: »

Why do you believe "They" are trying to destroy society?

I said society is being destroyed. That is a fact. I didn't say anything else.

King Mob · 26-01-2021 4:14pm

sabat wrote: »

I said society is being destroyed. That is a fact. I didn't say anything else.

Yes. I know. Which is why I'm asking you the reason you believe they are deliberately trying to destroy society for.
What do you believe is the motive?

Please explain your position here as it's very vague and unclear.

Dohnjoe · 26-01-2021 4:16pm

sabat wrote: »

I said society is being destroyed. That is a fact. I didn't say anything else.

It's more of a subjective personal opinion, a vague one at that.

Economies are being impacted by measures to tackle the pandemic. You hint at or make it sound like it's deliberate somehow, do you believe any of this is deliberate for ulterior motives? if yes, please detail

ShatterAlan · 26-01-2021 4:16pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

This is incomprehensible.

Another bizarre strawman and rant.

As for church, it's not yet mandatory to wear masks, likewise in post offices, banks, dentists, medical appointments, restaurants, cafes.

Why? probably because there are so few people going to church now and those that do go are socially distancing and wearing masks anyway, so there's no requirement to make it mandatory.

And there are so few people going for a walk at night when everything is shut yet you still seem to think it's necessary to impose a curfew on them to stop them [in your words] mixing and socialising.

Dohnjoe · 26-01-2021 4:21pm

ShatterAlan wrote: »

And there are so few people going for a walk at night when everything is shut yet you still seem to think it's necessary to impose a curfew on them to stop them [in your words] mixing and socialising.

According to you and your limited view.

According to reality, countries are imposing evening curfews in order to reduce the number of people mixing/socialising in order to reduce the spread of the virus, e.g. teenagers gathering in the evening. The fact that you can't seem to understand this is not a valid argument against it.

sabat · 26-01-2021 4:21pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

So many questions. Why is there a "date"? the lockdown is due to the virus. Are you claiming it's something else? if yes, what is that something else?

"Date" and "permanent" are both words related to time. If this is still going on in 20 years then it obviously was permanent. Conversely, if it all ended tomorrow it obviously wasn't. So my question is at what point inbetween do people accept that it is?

King Mob · 26-01-2021 4:21pm

ShatterAlan wrote: »

And there are so few people going for a walk at night when everything is shut yet you still seem to think it's necessary to impose a curfew on them to stop them [in your words] mixing and socialising.

So the real reason is...?

Dohnjoe · 26-01-2021 4:23pm

sabat wrote: »

"Date" and "permanent" are both words related to time. If this is still going on in 20 years then it obviously was permanent. Conversely, if it all ended tomorrow it obviously wasn't. So my question is at what point inbetween do people accept that it is?

It depends on the virus. There's no "set date" to any of this. It's a fluid situation. Virus decreases to manageable levels, measures reduce. Virus flares up again, measures increase.

Again, you seem to be hinting there is something nefarious behind these measures, what is it?

The Raging Bile Duct · 26-01-2021 4:25pm

sabat wrote: »

"Date" and "permanent" are both words related to time. If this is still going on in 20 years then it obviously was permanent. Conversely, if it all ended tomorrow it obviously wasn't. So my question is at what point inbetween do people accept that it is?

Do you think this lockdown is permanent? What would be the reason for doing this?

PintOfView · 26-01-2021 4:28pm

ShatterAlan wrote: »

And there are so few people going for a walk at night when everything is shut yet you still seem to think it's necessary to impose a curfew on them to stop them [in your words] mixing and socialising.

Do you know how many people ignore the lockdown at night in the Netherlands, to meet in groups of people, rather than just walk their dog?
If it is a significant amount of people, who thereby cause a risk to the rest of society, then the curfew may be justified.
Can you explain the background to the Dutch curfew, and the rational behind it?

If you think about it, the virus it not magically jumping around the population.
It is passing from person to person.
Some people heed the public health advice to socially distance, etc.
Some people don't
Which group of people do you think are causing the virus to spread?

PintOfView · 26-01-2021 4:33pm

sabat wrote: »

"Date" and "permanent" are both words related to time. If this is still going on in 20 years then it obviously was permanent. Conversely, if it all ended tomorrow it obviously wasn't. So my question is at what point inbetween do people accept that it is?

I don't expect to ever conclude this is permanent.
I expect the restrictions to be there as long as necessary.
Whether that is for 3 month, or 6 months, or longer is not possible to say.

Do you think the restrictions will remain once the pandemic is gotten under control?

NaFirinne · 26-01-2021 4:38pm

We have basically got a world wide martial law been enacted. The rich are getting richer and the less well off are being put out of business.

How long before we all realise there might be worse things then covid.

Dohnjoe · 26-01-2021 4:43pm

NaFirinne wrote: »

We have basically got a world wide martial law been enacted. The rich are getting richer and the less well off are being put out of business.

How long before we all realise there might be worse things then covid.

We're trying to reduce the spread of a virus so it doesn't overwhelm our health systems, your alternative solution is?

King Mob · 26-01-2021 4:44pm

NaFirinne wrote: »

We have basically got a world wide martial law been enacted.

No, we don't.
That's not what martial law means.

What "worse things then covid" are you refering to?
What do you believe is the true purpose behind the measures to reduce covid?

PintOfView · 26-01-2021 4:50pm

NaFirinne wrote: »

We have basically got a world wide martial law been enacted. The rich are getting richer and the less well off are being put out of business.

How long before we all realise there might be worse things then covid.

And what is your solution to the current situation?
Is it to let the virus run through the population un checked?

GT89 · 26-01-2021 5:35pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I'm on about mandatory hotel quarantine and I believe aussie security guards have the same powers as in Ireland, they can make a citizens arrest.

https://yla.org.au/wa/topics/courts-police-and-the-law/powers-of-security-guards/

I have heard they can carry weapons over there. Anyway what is going to happens if you rock up in Dublin Airport will the Gardai be lined up to ensure you go off on a bus to the quarantine hotel or will it be a trust based. If the latter its unenforceable?

Timberrrrrrrr · 26-01-2021 5:40pm

GT89 wrote: »

I have heard they can carry weapons over there. Anyway what is going to happens if you rock up in Dublin Airport will the Gardai be lined up to ensure you go off on a bus to the quarantine hotel or will it be a trust based. If the latter its unenforceable?

Aussie gun laws are very strict, they wouldn't let any random security guard carry even bodyguards cannot be armed.

I dont know, that would be a question for the people that make these decisions not me

PintOfView · 26-01-2021 5:55pm

GT89 wrote: »

I have heard they can carry weapons over there. Anyway what is going to happens if you rock up in Dublin Airport will the Gardai be lined up to ensure you go off on a bus to the quarantine hotel or will it be a trust based. If the latter its unenforceable?

If we did manage to get the virus cases down to manageable numbers does it not make sense to have a quarantine on people coming into the country?

It would also need to be on more than a trust basis, eg., large fine if they don't answer the phone in their hotel room when it's called at random three times per day.

GT89 · 27-01-2021 12:07am

PintOfView wrote: »

If we did manage to get the virus cases down to manageable numbers does it not make sense to have a quarantine on people coming into the country?

It would also need to be on more than a trust basis, eg., large fine if they don't answer the phone in their hotel room when it's called at random three times per day.

It might make sense but I can't see it happening and if it does I cannot see it being properly enforced. They don't put up with any sh1t in Australia when it comes to their borders and policing. It will be a farce and I can't see us doing for arrivals from other EU countries. Also Australia still lockdown Melbourne was locked down for 6 months for example. So it's not like it's been normal there the whole time.

A zero covid strategy will not work unless adopted at an EU level. Ireland is only a region of the United States of Europe whether you like it or not.

ShatterAlan · 27-01-2021 12:21am

PintOfView wrote: »

If we did manage to get the virus cases down to manageable numbers does it not make sense to have a quarantine on people coming into the country?

It would also need to be on more than a trust basis, eg., large fine if they don't answer the phone in their hotel room when it's called at random three times per day.

You want to find someone who doesn't answer their phone?

Will you pay the court fees because it was out of charge or because they were asleep?

Is the "bang on the door, wake up, Vee need to talk to you" next?

GT89 · 27-01-2021 12:27am

Government are just trying to scare people out of booking holidays away like they did last summer when Harris said not looking good for foreign holidays. When in the new there was nothing stopping anyone from going abroad last summer and there is nothing right now either might I add. The government will always bow down to their masters in Brussels.

New Zealand contained covid because it's a remote island in the middle of the Pacific. Trump did the same thing as Ardern by shutting the borders. But yet Trump is a monster and Ardfern is a hero.

Timberrrrrrrr · 27-01-2021 12:31am

GT89 wrote: »

Government are just trying to scare people out of booking holidays away like they did last summer when Harris said not looking good for foreign holidays. When in the new there was nothing stopping anyone from going abroad last summer and there is nothing right now either might I add. The government will always bow down to their masters in Brussels.

Try booking two weeks holiday abroad so, no one is stopping you.

GT89 · 27-01-2021 12:33am

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Try booking two weeks holiday abroad so, no one is stopping you.

Already have

Timberrrrrrrr · 27-01-2021 12:35am

GT89 wrote: »

Already have

Well done, so you are proof that the measures are indeed temporary.

GT89 · 27-01-2021 12:44am

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Well done, so you are proof that the measures are indeed temporary.

Will there still be social distancing markings and masks by then probably. It probably won't be lockdown but still covid measures like masks and social distancing by then. I think people will still wear masks like they do in Asian countries even when this is over.

Timberrrrrrrr · 27-01-2021 12:52am

GT89 wrote: »

Will there still be social distancing markings and masks by then probably. It probably won't be lockdown but still covid measures like masks and social distancing by then. I think people will still wear masks like they do in Asian countries even when this is over.

I have no issue with that, nothing worse than walking down the street and seeing some knacker hawking green **** all over the pavement or being on a bus/train and people coughing all over the place.

ShatterAlan · 27-01-2021 1:04am

Dohnjoe wrote: »

We're trying to reduce the spread of a virus so it doesn't overwhelm our health systems, your alternative solution is?

Tanks, troops.

And prayers.

All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

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