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Lord Mayor of Dublin harassed at her home by protesters

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    #752
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    There we have it folks there is no racism in Ireland we can all stop looking!

    I think the argument is that you can be vigilant and recognise the extent and occurrences of racism and all the other isms in ireland today without being a clichéd member of a baying mob desperate to find or misrepresent any evidence whatsover


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    #753
    Baggly
    Registered Users Posts: 35,024 ✭✭✭✭Baggly


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I think that you finally get it. Racism in Ireland is about the same threat as communism in Ireland. There are handful of nutters out there, like everywhere. But for practical purposes there is no serious racism. You can find it if you look very very hard and misrepresent the facts, sure. But if you are honest you will recognise that Ireland is as good as it gets. No other country is less racist imho. Unless you have an example?

    Mod

    Dont post in this thread again.


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    #754
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,572 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Deleted User wrote: »

    If someone said the phrase " you *whatever ethnicity* prick", the insult is the word prick surely?

    You only need to look at the kind of words inserted between 'you' and 'prick' to know that this doesn't make sense though.

    you fat prick.
    you ugly prick.
    you stupid prick.

    I don't think anybody would argue that the words fat, ugly and stupid are not part of the insult. Otherwise why is the word even in there.

    Likewise:

    you black prick.
    you asian prick.
    you muslim prick.
    you catholic prick.
    you traveller prick.

    I don't think you can argue that these words in the middle are not also part of the insult. Otherwise, why is the word even in there.

    In the real world, if a shop staff tells somebody to "Get out of my shop you (skin colour/ethnicity/religion/etc) prick", they will be in real trouble for it in terms of discrimination, and the defence that the word 'asian' or 'traveller' is merely descriptive and wasn't meant as part of the insult at all will get them nowhere.


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    #755
    RobbieTheRobber
    Registered Users Posts: 6,779 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I think the argument is that you can be vigilant and recognise the extent and occurrences of racism and all the other isms in ireland today without being a clichéd member of a baying mob desperate to find or misrepresent any evidence whatsover

    Sorry I thought we had cleared this up and there was no racism in Ireland and humour was a perfectly valid reason for racism.

    Why would we need to be vigilant and vigilant against what?

    If I use the term in the link to describe someone either to other colleagues\friends or to an individual themselves is that racist?
    Or on this forum as an attempt humour is that racist?


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    #756
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Every country with a mix of races gets racism, it happens inevitably. It can be a lot, or not a lot, but it will never be zero.
    According to two studies in 2013 and 2016 these below countries are the most racist in the world.
    Why are they so racist? That's up for debate.
    • India
    • Lebanon
    • Bahrain
    • Libya
    • Egypt
    • Philippines
    • Kuwait
    • Palestine
    • South Africa
    • South Korea
    • Malaysia
    • Nigeria
    • Iraq
    • Kyrgyzstan
    • Ecuador
    • Algeria
    • Pakistan
    • Yemen
    • Hong Kong
    • Russia
    https://businesstech.co.za/news/lifestyle/116644/the-most-racist-countries-in-the-world/
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/05/15/a-fascinating-map-of-the-worlds-most-and-least-racially-tolerant-countries/


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    #757
    Grab All Association
    Registered Users Posts: 3,917 ✭✭✭Grab All Association


    https://twitter.com/hazechu/status/1353486604640399360?s=21

    Reporting for what exactly? These tweets don’t breach Twitters Terms and Conditions nor do they threaten, incite against anyone. She reporting them to the same Garda Síochána that are racist murderers according to her.


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    #758
    Invidious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 528 ✭✭✭Invidious


    nullzero wrote: »
    Le Cheile's website is quite a read.

    The tweet that was posted above describing the incident at the mansion House as Hazel Chu being "racially targeted" by people "Emboldened by the shooting of George Nkencho" is incredibly worrying.

    Here we have an organisation that has only recently been established (their ten founding principles mention the covid19 crisis by name more than once) wading into this situation, leading with the George Nkencho shooting as being something that has encouraged supposed far right activists to shout weird rhetoric at the Lord mayor of Dublin.

    How the George Nkencho case has emboldened the far right is beyond me. The workings of that case are clearly not racially motivated.

    It would also appear that the protestors at the mansion House were not abusing Hazel Chu racially.

    Why le Cheile feel the need to rubber stamp this incident as a racist incident connected to another incident which we can only assume they feel is racist (when it wasn't) is beyond me.

    They then state; "This demonstrates the need for our campaign so please spread the word as far and wide as possible."

    Here we reach the nub of the issue. Here's their second founding principle verbatim ; "We recognise that a new wave of far-right politics, emboldened by the toxic rhetoric of Trump in the US, Bolsonaro in Brazil, Orban in Hungary, Duterte in the Philippines, is a dangerous threat that, if unchallenged, will divide and weaken working people and all who believe in social justice, equality and freedom."

    There in lies the problem for an organisation like Le Cheile, they are an Irish organisation fighting against far right groups that do not exist in this jurisdiction. We have the National Party (4773 votes or 0.2% of the total ballots cast in last year's General election), who do not measure up to any of the groups or individuals listed in their founding principles.

    Is it not telling that they could not think to lost even one Irish far right group or personality for them to rail against in their founding principles?

    Here we have a situation (and by extension two situations) that have nothing to do with their remit of fighting far right activism but they have decided to dip their toe in the water nonetheless.

    Here we have an organisation which supposedly exists for the good of Irish society acting only in it's own interests for the sake of keeping itself relevant. And the saddest part is those mindlessly following their rhetoric.

    I abhor any type of discrimination and the thought of fascists being allowed to do as they please doesn't sit well with me. However, there aren't any fascist groups operating in Ireland. The National Party is a joke that only makes the news when anti fascist activists turn up at their rallies to throw things at them.

    We don't need an organisation such as le Cheile stirring racial tensions, which is exactly what what they are doing in lieu of any actual fascism to rail against in Irish society.

    These people may have good intentions, but statements of the like they are releasing have no basis in fact and their actions are currently only serving the propagate a far right into existence in protest of their own nonsense.

    Here are the member organizations:

    https://lecheilednd.carrd.co/#memberorganisations

    All the usual suspects represented -- Sinn Fein, People Before Profit, RISE, Pavee Point, Anti-Deportation Ireland, Extinction Rebellion Ireland, the Irish Palestinian Solidarity Campaign, the National Women's Council of Ireland, the Dublin Council of Trade Unions, the Peter McVerry Trust, etc., etc., etc.

    Just another left-wing umbrella group, in short.

    It's evident that if you oppose any of these member organizations' agendas, you're categorized as "far right."

    Le Cheile doesn't exist to fight the far right; it exists to censor anyone who disagrees with any of its member organizations.

    The far left is a much greater scourge in Ireland, and yet who dares fight it?


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    #759
    Baggly
    Registered Users Posts: 35,024 ✭✭✭✭Baggly


    Grab All Association wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/hazechu/status/1353486604640399360?s=21

    Reporting for what exactly? These tweets don’t breach Twitters Terms and Conditions nor do they threaten, incite against anyone. She reporting them to the same Garda Síochána that are racist murderers according to her.

    Mod

    Lets have a chat via PM. Dont post in this thread again until i say so.


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    #760
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Are the majority of the main print news who carried banner headlines of "racist abuse" / "vile racist abuse" culpable for the misleading reporting which on inspection shows no apparent incidents of racial abuse?

    That the protest has been squarely framed as a direct attack on Ms Chu despite the fact the story derived from a protest by a small bunch of anti-maskers and their and Ms Chu's frankly bizarre interaction on the day in question

    That the one arrest made at the protest was of a woman following “persistent lack of compliance with public health regulations and directions from An Garda Síochána”.

    One hell of a way to fan the flames for sure.
    Can our media be held culpable for such reporting?


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    #761
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Grab All Association wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/hazechu/status/1353486604640399360?s=21

    Reporting for what exactly? These tweets don’t breach Twitters Terms and Conditions nor do they threaten, incite against anyone. She reporting them to the same Garda Síochána that are racist murderers according to her.
    I suggest you actually read "The Twitter Rules" (which is actually what they're called) and pay close attention to the links under Abuse/harassment and the Child sexual exploitation policy. The second message clearly violates both.


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    #762
    Invidious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 528 ✭✭✭Invidious


    gozunda wrote: »
    Are the majority of the main print news who carried banner headlines "of racist abuse" / "vile racist abuse" culpable for the misleading reporting which on inspection shows no apparent incidents of racial abuse?

    Who will hold them accountable? I hardly see the Press Council of Ireland intervening here, because they wouldn't want to cross the woke brigade.

    It's clear now that anyone who criticizes or protests against Hazel Chu will find him- or herself accused of "vile racist abuse" or similar, and nobody will dare say anything to the contrary.


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    #763
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    I think one news source start calling the protestors "far right" and everyone else copied because they are a little bit lazy and don't have time to check sources, it's all "get it out there fast".


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    #764
    RandRuns
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭RandRuns


    biko wrote: »
    I think one news source start calling the protestors "far right" and everyone else copied because they are a little bit lazy and don't have time to check sources, it's all "get it out there fast".

    Plus, "mayor attacked in her home by far right" generates way more clicks than "mayor has slightly weird interaction with oddball annual protestors at public building, then whines that nobody should be allowed to protest in her presence" even if the former is false and the latter much closer to the truth.


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    #765
    jill_valentine
    Registered Users Posts: 7,090 ✭✭✭jill_valentine


    biko wrote: »
    I think one news source start calling the protestors "far right" and everyone else copied because they are a little bit lazy and don't have time to check sources, it's all "get it out there fast".

    Q Anon is a far right movement. What she was accused of by at least one protestor is Q Anon stuff. I would bet a significant amount of money that some of the unnamed participants and their affiliations are well known to journos, and if they're the lads I'm thinking of they'd have a very extensive history of nuisance legal action.

    I would stake every cent I own the failure here is to not show their workings to avoid headaches from individual actors, rather than incorrect attribition of the incident.


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    #766
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Invidious wrote: »
    Who will hold them accountable? I hardly see the Press Council of Ireland intervening here, because they wouldn't want to cross the woke brigade.

    It's clear now that anyone who criticizes or protests against Hazel Chu will find him- or herself accused of "vile racist abuse" or similar, and nobody will dare say anything to the contrary.

    As a first up - the press Council require complaints to be submitted. Enough complaints and they will have to be reviewed. For certain Ms Chu is doing herself no favours either. But she is a politician with an eye on the next election so perhaps no real surprises there. She has previously said that others have unfairly claimed she is playing the 'victim'. From this incident - its hard to reconcile that position.

    The more incidents like this that are highlighted as being inaccurately reported the better.


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    #767
    fantaiscool
    Registered Users Posts: 363 ✭✭fantaiscool


    jill_valentine wrote: »
    Q Anon is a far right movement. What she was accused of by at least one protestor is Q Anon stuff. I would bet a significant amount of money that some of the unnamed participants and their affiliations are well known to journos, and if they're the lads I'm thinking of they'd have a very extensive history of nuisance legal action.

    I would stake every cent I own the failure here is to not show their workings to avoid headaches from individual actors, rather than incorrect attribition of the incident.


    Agree. Chu said in the newstalk interview that she has no problem with protests generally but this was far right stuff and her child was there too. I would be very surprised if some of the protesters weren't the usual far right types we see at other protests following the likes of Dee Wall like idiots.


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    #768
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭Effects


    fantaiscool wrote: »
    Chu said in the newstalk interview that her child was there too.

    Are you sure she said that? I thought it had been established that her daughter wasn't there.
    I didn't listen to the whole interview myself as I lost interest.


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    #769
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    fantaiscool wrote: »
    Agree. Chu said in the newstalk interview that she has no problem with protests generally but this was far right stuff and her child was there too. I would be very surprised if some of the protesters weren't the usual far right types we see at other protests following the likes of Dee Wall like idiots.

    Her child was in the creche, and Mrs Chu was on her way out to get some lunch. The child was not there.


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    #770
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    jill_valentine wrote: »
    Q Anon is a far right movement. What she was accused of by at least one protestor is Q Anon stuff. I would bet a significant amount of money that some of the unnamed participants and their affiliations are well known to journos, and if they're the lads I'm thinking of they'd have a very extensive history of nuisance legal action.

    I would stake every cent I own the failure here is to not show their workings to avoid headaches from individual actors, rather than incorrect attribition of the incident.

    Its still bull**** reporting by the media on the face of what appears to be a very small number of people who were voicing some very odd ideas at the protest. Whether they were left, right or otherwise is largely irrelevant. What was more relevant is that the protestors were breaking current restrictions. Ms Chu's interactions with the protestors was downright bizarre.

    I believe it was Ms Chu herself who reported the 'dragon' comment. Afaik QAnons ideology centers on Alien lizards? So either the protestor was making it up as they went along or someone really didn't have a clue.

    The rest of Ms Chu own comments on the incident in question appears to playing to the crowd.


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    #771
    RandRuns
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭RandRuns


    fantaiscool wrote: »
    Agree. Chu said in the newstalk interview that she has no problem with protests generally but this was far right stuff and her child was there too. I would be very surprised if some of the protesters weren't the usual far right types we see at other protests following the likes of Dee Wall like idiots.

    What she means is that she has no problem with protests that are racist against white Irish people (like those falsely accusing the Gardai of a racist murder last week) but she has a huge problem with any protest that impinges on her, thus the fake claim of racist abuse against the mansion house protestors.


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    #772
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭Effects


    RandRuns wrote: »
    What she means is that she has no problem with protests that are racist against white Irish people

    No, I'm pretty sure that's not what she means.
    Did she not say she had no issue with the original protest group, the ones that have been there every year?


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    #773
    RandRuns
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭RandRuns


    Effects wrote: »
    No, I'm pretty sure that's not what she means.
    Did she not say she had no issue with the original protest group, the ones that have been there every year?

    She had no problem with them until she could make a spurious "is it cos I is Asian" claim of racism against them.


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    #774
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    RandRuns wrote: »
    What she means is that she has no problem with protests that are racist against white Irish people (like those falsely accusing the Gardai of a racist murder last week) but she has a huge problem with any protest that impinges on her, thus the fake claim of racist abuse against the mansion house protestors.
    Wow, thank god you're here to decode the secret context of what people are actually saying as opposed to what they are literally saying. PHEW!


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    #775
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭Effects


    RandRuns wrote: »
    She had no problem with them until she could make a spurious "is it cos I is Asian" claim of racism against them.

    Or maybe she had no problem with them until they got out of hand.


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    #776
    RandRuns
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭RandRuns


    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    Wow, thank god you're here to decode the secret context of what people are actually saying as opposed to what they are literally saying. PHEW!

    Why, what did anyone at the protest "literally say" that was racist?


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    #777
    RandRuns
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭RandRuns


    Effects wrote: »
    Or maybe she had no problem with them until they got out of hand.

    In what way did they get out of hand? My understanding from reading the media stories is that someone tried to shake her hand - hardly the Portland riots, was it?


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    #778
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    RandRuns wrote: »
    Why, what did anyone at the protest "literally say" that was racist?
    Sorry, I don't think you understood my post. I'll give you a few minutes to re-read it and come back to me.


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    #779
    jill_valentine
    Registered Users Posts: 7,090 ✭✭✭jill_valentine


    gozunda wrote: »
    Its still bull**** reporting my the media on the face of what appears to be a very small number of people who were voicing some very odd ideas at the protest.

    That said I believe it was Ms Chu herself who reported the 'dragon' comment. Afaik QAnons ideology centres on Alien lizards? So either someone was making it up as they went along or really did have a clue.

    The rest of Ms Chu own comments on the incident in question appears to be mainly playing to the crowd.

    Lizard People/Draconians/Dragons/Reptilians, are all terms that are used interchangeably for the same conspiracy theory, but the camera bit makes it clear what he means regardless.

    It sounds like a joke, it's not, people believing that ****e have done serious harm, and there’s a less-than-coincidental overlap between people who get targetted by this particular loolah subset and people who are not Christian or not white.

    Q Anon doesn't centre on this stuff as such, because once you dig into it every Q Anon faction has a different explanation of what's "really" happening, but this one in particular comes up in relation to weird lone wolf types of a sort I'd be more concerned about in Ireland than the kind of organised, militarised groups in the US.

    The "lizard people" angle is also heavily involved with the 5G stuff. You'll recall somebody tried to burn down two masts in Donegal last year on the back of that, and the Nashville bomber - also obsessed with lizard people - is thought to have intended his bomb to sabotage 5G facilities. This isn't something that always stays safely online, as amusingly nuts as it sounds.


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    #780
    RandRuns
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭RandRuns


    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    Sorry, I don't think you understood my post. I'll give you a few minutes to re-read it and come back to me.

    You're fine. Little of what you post makes sense outside your head, so I'll go with my interpetation.


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    #781
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    RandRuns wrote: »
    You're fine. Little of what you post makes sense outside your head, so I'll go with my interpetation.
    Oh, ok you genuinely didn't understand my post... my bad. I'll explain it for you: you said "What she means is that [...]" and I said, essentially, thanks for telling us what she secretly meant, to which you replied (for some unknown reason) "what did anyone at the protest "literally say" that was racist?"

    So you can see my thought process that you didn't fully read my post, given your reply made no sense in the context of the entire conversation right?


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