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Lord Mayor of Dublin harassed at her home by protesters

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    #722
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    Do you think it is OK to use racial serotypes to demean people for humour today?

    No. I think it's ok to use racial stereotypes to make jokes though. Again, context matters.


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    #723
    RobbieTheRobber
    Registered Users Posts: 6,789 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    No. I think it's ok to use racial stereotypes to make jokes though. Again, context matters.

    What context is it ok to demean people using racially motivated language?


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    #724
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    So you see no problem with someone being abused for the colour of their skin or country of birth. That's acceptable as long as the Simpson can make jokes.

    What actually killed the Simpsons was all the good writers leaving. But sure blame it on racists not being allowed to abuse people.

    Really silly season stuff now.

    The good writers were the ones who made the jokes you now find "problematic".

    Permanently offended people will be permanently offended.

    Laughing at stereotypes in the simosons is not abuse. It's actually lampooning people who hold racist ideals. Sadly, a lot of people can't see that satire isn't meant to be taken literally and just fall over themselves to be the victim or to be offended on behalf of the perceived victim.


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    #725
    Ish66
    Registered Users Posts: 462 ✭✭Ish66


    Mod

    Forum Banned.


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    #726
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    What context is it ok to demean people using racially motivated language?

    Satire. If the intention is to demean and nothing else, then I wouldnt be a fan.

    If like brass eye, Fawlty towers, father Ted or other comedy, I think it's absolutely fine to lampoon stereotypes by using what some would class as racially motivated language.

    But you will always have people who complain and feel offended. So why don't we just support legislation to stop that? Stop everyone being offended.


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    #727
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    Did I call for that?
    In what post?

    Did I say you did?

    I made the assumption you'd be for drafting of legislation to stop everyone being offended.

    I mean, it's completely unworkable but it's no different than supporting some nebulous hate speech legislation even though you seemingly have no idea of what you want in it.


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    #728
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    Did I call for that?
    In what post?

    any kind of communication in speech, writing or behaviour, that attacks or uses pejorative or discriminatory language with reference to a person or a group on the basis of who they are, in other words, based on their religion, ethnicity, nationality .....


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    #729
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    Is it ok for me to make racially motivated jokes about a colleague or stranger to their face based on their skin colour or nationality. Who gets to decide if its a joke me or the victim?

    It depends. On context.

    But I can see you are beautifully nuanced even in your own scenario by using the word "victim".


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    #730
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    That is the un definition. I even said as much in the post you partially quoted.
    No need to deliberately try to misrepresent me.

    You were asked to define hate for the purpose of hate laws, that’s literally an example you used. You represented yourself with it.


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    #731
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    I would imagine that's not the first wrong assumption you have made.

    So how about if I use racially motivated language in a joke to a stranger about their nationality or skin colour who gets to decide if that's a joke me or the victim?

    Answered below.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    It depends. On context.

    But I can see you are beautifully nuanced even in your own scenario by using the word "victim".


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    #732
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    You were asked to present the law that you said made racism illegal in Ireland have you found it yet?

    Section 10 (1) and (6) of the Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act, 1997.


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    #733
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    That is incorrect.

    No it isn’t. People have been charged with it for making racist remarks. Are you claiming that racist remarks wouldn’t cause alarm or distress??

    “his or her acts are such that a reasonable person would realise that the acts would seriously interfere with the other's peace and privacy or cause alarm, distress or harm to the other.“


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    #734
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    What possible context is there between me and a stranger to make racially motivated jokes?

    Really??

    It depends on the circumstance and depends on the content of the joke.

    There is almost an infinite amount of variables in your vague hypothetical which would make telling a racial joke contextually appropriate.

    What an absurd question.


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    #735
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    I answered your ridiculous question but you are afraid to answer mine that's OK. I have made an assumption already.

    I....did answer.


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    #736
    y0ssar1an22
    Registered Users Posts: 16,459 ✭✭✭✭y0ssar1an22


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    What context is it ok to demean people using racially motivated language?

    what do you mean exactly by racially motivated language?

    in your mind, is that a function of someone's skin colour?

    if you cant call someone green, can you call someone else yellow?

    basically, its all allowed or its all banned. if you ban **** selectively, that in itself is racism, do you think?

    once you are not inciting (in itself, impossible to define) violence (i think that's the gold standard) have at it, is my attitude.


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    #737
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    I don't think Hazel ever said no protests should be allowed. But are you really supporting anti mask protesters at this current time?

    Well for certain - it would appear she wasn't happy with the most recent one despite claims to the contrary and in light of the fact that there were no reported racist incidents. Very odd then that she is quoted as saying the following in the IT article.
    Ms Chu said she has no issue with protests. “But you have to have a reason. It can’t just be because you don’t like the look of me. Because I can’t change that.”

    She is also reported to have said that she found the protest "deeply uncomfortable" and "inconvenient" as she wanted to go for lunch ...

    Btw where exactly did you get anyone supporting anti maskers protesting "at the current time" from this observation?
    gozunda wrote:
    Thing is - there's been protests outside the Mansion House during the residency of various of Lord Mayors over the years. There certainly seem to be some legitimate and some oddball protests from time to time.

    That seems like asking questions simply for a reaction whilst largely ignoring the discussion. I think I leave you to it.


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    #738
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    So there is no racist language, no such thing as hate speech?

    Any language or speech can be hatred or to a lesser extent, racist, by virtue of intent and context.

    And by the same token apparently obvious racist language can be innocent and friendly by virtue of intent and context.


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    #739
    y0ssar1an22
    Registered Users Posts: 16,459 ✭✭✭✭y0ssar1an22


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    So there is no racist language, no such thing as hate speech?


    i don't know what racially motivated language means. I'm asking how you would define that.

    it sounds ambiguous to me, so am asking for clarification


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    #740
    RobbieTheRobber
    Registered Users Posts: 6,789 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Any language or speech can be hatred or to a lesser extent, racist, by virtue of intent and context.

    And by the same token apparently obvious racist language can be innocent and friendly by virtue of intent and context.

    Friendly racism.
    Loving violence.
    Black is white.
    I get it


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    #741
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    Friendly racism.
    Loving violence.
    Black is white.
    I get it

    You honestly don't.

    Context and situational awareness are important.

    Just because you think something is racist, doesn't mean it is.


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    #742
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    gozunda wrote: »
    Its quite sad that even though there were no actual incidents of racism reported at the demonstration/ protests by a bunch of anti maskers in front of the Mansion house - that the incident has now grown legs and has been added to the Nkencho incident and "incessant racially motivated attacks" / "far right" to show just how bad things are here ...

    https://twitter.com/ddiezworld/status/1352770136466468865?s=20

    What would we do without Le Cheile, they expertly identified we needed ANOTHER NGO in this company to take money from the tax payer.

    Stunning work.


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    #743
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You honestly don't.

    Context and situational awareness are important.

    Just because you think something is racist, doesn't mean it is.

    These days the litmus test for racism appears to be whatever you think the other person's private thoughts are, rather than what they said.

    "I think immigration law should be enforced"

    translation:

    "I hate people who are not Irish"


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    #744
    Baggly
    Registered Users Posts: 35,024 ✭✭✭✭Baggly


    Ish66 wrote: »
    SNIP
    Mod

    Forum Banned.

    Mod

    FYI. Racist crap like what was in the above is not welcome. Its snipped now, but safe to say - dont post racist crap on this site.


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    #745
    RobbieTheRobber
    Registered Users Posts: 6,789 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    Omackeral wrote: »
    Now this is racist. First out and out racist post I’ve seen on the thread. Scummy post.

    No you have got it wrong that's not racism thats just friendly banter you see it's all about the context. Which if I understand it correctly as dunne explained it this means if posters on this thread get their laughs from that racism then that makes it ok and not racist.


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    #746
    WrenBoy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭WrenBoy


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    No you have got it wrong that's not racism thats just friendly banter you see it's all about the context. Which if I understand it correctly as dunne explained it this means if posters on this thread get their laughs from that racism then that makes it ok and not racist.

    Cop on, you know well thats not what he was saying.


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    #747
    Baggly
    Registered Users Posts: 35,024 ✭✭✭✭Baggly


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    No you have got it wrong that's not racism thats just friendly banter you see it's all about the context. Which if I understand it correctly as dunne explained it this means if posters on this thread get their laughs from that racism then that makes it ok and not racist.
    WrenBoy wrote: »
    Cop on, you know well thats not what he was saying.

    Mod

    Drop it, move on; or dont post in this thread again.


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    #748
    RobbieTheRobber
    Registered Users Posts: 6,789 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    No point arguing in a racism denial echo chamber.

    The key points from this thread seem to be there is no racism in Ireland it is all in people's heads.

    Racism when uttered has to be considered in the context of the perpetrators which seems to have a low bar that is if its for humour its OK and not racist.


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    #749
    Salvation Tambourine
    Registered Users Posts: 928 ✭✭✭Salvation Tambourine


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    No point arguing in a racism denial echo chamber.

    The key points from this thread seem to be there is no racism in Ireland it is all in people's heads.

    Racism when uttered has to be considered in the context of the perpetrators which seems to have a low bar that is if its for humour its OK and not racist.

    If that's what you've decided was said in the last few pages then there's no point in anyone arguing with you.


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    #750
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    No point arguing in a racism denial echo chamber.

    The key points from this thread seem to be there is no racism in Ireland it is all in people's heads.

    Racism when uttered has to be considered in the context of the perpetrators which seems to have a low bar that is if its for humour its OK and not racist.

    I think that you finally get it. Racism in Ireland is about the same threat as communism in Ireland. There are handful of nutters out there, like everywhere. But for practical purposes there is no serious racism. You can find it if you look very very hard and misrepresent the facts, sure. But if you are honest you will recognise that Ireland is as good as it gets. No other country is less racist imho. Unless you have an example?


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    #751
    RobbieTheRobber
    Registered Users Posts: 6,789 ✭✭✭RobbieTheRobber


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I think that you finally get it. Racism in Ireland is about the same threat as communism in Ireland. There are handful of nutters out there, like everywhere. But for practical purposes there is no serious racism. You can find it if you look very very hard and misrepresent the facts, sure. But if you are honest you will recognise that Ireland is as good as it gets. No other country is less racist imho. Unless you have an example?

    There we have it folks there is no racism in Ireland we can all stop looking!


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