Munster v Leinster Build Up Thread

guapos · 24-01-2021 11:05AM

Thoughts on the hip check on keenan to the head that went unpunished?. Thought it should have been a penalty myself,you can't just jump into a player there needs to be a tackle.

Also how did Brace miss that "tackle" on henshaw just before halftime that got them the peno to move upfield.

Would like to see Coombs in the squad but when we're picking Earles and Sexton then Ruddock deserves to be in.

24-01-2021 11:20AM

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irishbucsfan · 24-01-2021 11:22AM

Hopefully the introduction of more South African teams will potentially add someone who can test Leinster in this competition

Buer · 24-01-2021 11:25AM

guapos wrote: »

Thoughts on the hip check on keenan to the head that went unpunished?. Thought it should have been a penalty myself,you can't just jump into a player there needs to be a tackle.

I wouldn't blame Brace too much for not spotting it but he should absolutely be getting support from his assistants and the TMO and instructing them to check it. That sort of moment is a massive swing. It should have been a penalty to Leinster from wherever the ball landed. Instead, Leinster are scrambling back on their own line as Munster know the full back is down.

The Inbetween is mine · 24-01-2021 11:26AM

I fully expected Munster to win that game, we played well... but didn't punish Leinster at critical times....the difference between going in 13-3 and actually 10-6 at halftime was massive.
We had chances to punish them in the second half ..and again didn't take them...what's that old saying, "never give a sucker an even break"?
They hung in...they battled away and took the one chance they were given...that's the difference between a good side, and a great side ...

24-01-2021 11:39AM

The Inbetween is mine wrote: »

I fully expected Munster to win that game, we played well... but didn't punish Leinster at critical times....the difference between going in 13-3 and actually 10-6 at halftime was massive.
We had chances to punish them in the second half ..and again didn't take them...what's that old saying, "never give a sucker an even break"?
They hung in...they battled away and took the one chance they were given...that's the difference between a good side, and a great side ...

I watched the game again this morning, JJ had a bad penalty miss right at the start of the 2nd half but beyond that Munster didn't really threaten Leinster at all.

Scratchly · 24-01-2021 12:00PM

This Beirne has to start for Ireland talk is giving me deja vu. We've been through it before. He's a turnover master in club games but when he's moved up a level his ability to poach is vastly diminished and without the big turnover moments he looks pretty average.

awec · 24-01-2021 12:05PM

As a "neutral", hoping for a comprehensive Munster victory:

Munster looked good in the first 10-12 minutes when Leinster were all at sea and got their points on the board.
Defensively, Munster were solid, stopping Leinster on their own line twice.
Once Leinster got themselves sorted, they ate up anything Munster could throw at them in attack. Munster still have a way to go in attack IMO.
The Leinster try had an element of luck but was a quality score.
After the try, Munster had no idea what to do. Resorted to kicking the ball away again. Terrible knock on from DDA to end it.
Munster are wasting their time with Hanrahan. Pick Healy.

Truth be told, I think if there is any notion that Munster have closed the gap it's marginally closer at best.

Buer · 24-01-2021 12:24PM

Miller Dirty Selenium wrote: »

I watched the game again this morning, JJ had a bad penalty miss right at the start of the 2nd half but beyond that Munster didn't really threaten Leinster at all.

Yup. A lot of field position but Leinster really managed those situations well.

I thought he was poor in the first half but McGrath had a great second half. His quick running from any opportunity yielded huge yards and got Leinster well out of the danger zone.

When they did need to win possession from touch, Leinster did it with little fuss. Munster got into Leinster territory a few times but really couldn't break them down and turned over ball more than once. A couple of very poor handling errors from Beirne and DDA of all people were costly.

bayern · 24-01-2021 12:29PM

5 wins in a row over Munster.
9 wins out of the last 10 games.

Buer · 24-01-2021 12:31PM

awec wrote: »

Truth be told, I think if there is any notion that Munster have closed the gap it's marginally closer at best.

I believe the gap has closed but that's more due to Leinster not being as good as they were than Munster progressing.

15 minutes aside, that performance from Munster was a carbon copy of the showings we saw in the Aviva in August/September.

For all the work Larkham has been doing, it's often absent against the top teams. There was a moment in the opening passage where Munster had an overlap on the narrow side, 3 on 2. Munster went through the hands immediately and made it exceptionally easy for the outnumbered winger to defend and Munster were subsequently stalled.

If they could execute those opportunities with consistency, they would be a very dangerous team given their power from 1-13.

JJH can take flak and the missed kick was a shocker but the one dimensional attack wasn't down to him. The plan was to kick. They did it with JJH and Murray and they did it with Healy and Casey. Healy had plenty of ball in his appearance but didn't generate anything. Obviously his ceiling is potentially higher though.

lawred2 · 24-01-2021 12:38PM

awec wrote: »

As a "neutral", hoping for a comprehensive Munster victory:

Munster looked good in the first 10-12 minutes when Leinster were all at sea and got their points on the board.
Defensively, Munster were solid, stopping Leinster on their own line twice.
Once Leinster got themselves sorted, they ate up anything Munster could throw at them in attack. Munster still have a way to go in attack IMO.
The Leinster try had an element of luck but was a quality score.
After the try, Munster had no idea what to do. Resorted to kicking the ball away again. Terrible knock on from DDA to end it.
Munster are wasting their time with Hanrahan. Pick Healy.

Truth be told, I think if there is any notion that Munster have closed the gap it's marginally closer at best.

A lot of time has been wasted over the years waiting for Hanrahan to 'develop'.. he's not really even that reliable a goal kicker.

Buer · 24-01-2021 12:44PM

lawred2 wrote: »

A lot of time has been wasted over the years waiting for Hanrahan to 'develop'.. he's not really even that reliable a goal kicker.

He was exceptionally reliable until the past year. I think the misses against Leinster in August and the subsequent flak has really gotten inside his head and that's very hard to change once it's there.

You don't win the Golden Boot twice (89% and 91% respectively) without being very reliable.

lawred2 · 24-01-2021 12:50PM

Buer wrote: »

He was exceptionally reliable until the past year. I think the misses against Leinster in August and the subsequent flak has really gotten inside his head and that's very hard to change once it's there.

You don't win the Golden Boot twice (89% and 91% respectively) without being very reliable.

That's obviously a fair point. Maybe it's a perception thing.. but when it matters, I have little confidence in him going 100% off the tee in big games.

Burkie1203 · 24-01-2021 12:50PM

awec wrote: »

Defensively, Munster were solid, stopping Leinster on their own line twice.

Munster are wasting their time with Hanrahan. Pick Healy.

On the first point above, no way they were on their feet for the first open and the 2nd turnover was a terrible decision from Brace as Archer rolled into the way of the leinster players

You should want JJH to continue to be picked. Healy might get pissed off and head up to Belfast in a year or 2

Burkie1203 · 24-01-2021 12:55PM

Buer wrote: »

He was exceptionally reliable until the past year. I think the misses against Leinster in August and the subsequent flak has really gotten inside his head and that's very hard to change once it's there.

You don't win the Golden Boot twice (89% and 91% respectively) without being very reliable.

Ross Byrne came off the bench and landed a kick from the touchline. JJH can kick penalties but he has far too often missed sitters at clutch moments.

RDS in 2018 he missed from in front of the posts in a SF against a Leinster team sweating beer.

How many times has he missed touch in clutch moments ......

24-01-2021 12:56PM

Buer wrote: »

I believe the gap has closed but that's more due to Leinster not being as good as they were than Munster progressing.

15 minutes aside, that performance from Munster was a carbon copy of the showings we saw in the Aviva in August/September.

For all the work Larkham has been doing, it's often absent against the top teams. There was a moment in the opening passage where Munster had an overlap on the narrow side, 3 on 2. Munster went through the hands immediately and made it exceptionally easy for the outnumbered winger to defend and Munster were subsequently stalled.

If they could execute those opportunities with consistency, they would be a very dangerous team given their power from 1-13.

JJH can take flak and the missed kick was a shocker but the one dimensional attack wasn't down to him. The plan was to kick. They did it with JJH and Murray and they did it with Healy and Casey. Healy had plenty of ball in his appearance but didn't generate anything. Obviously his ceiling is potentially higher though.

There was another (what could have been) promising attack in the first half, ball ended up on the wing and who was out there but POM. What the **** is he doing on the wing in attack when you've got some actual pace in the Munster backs?

thomond2006 · 24-01-2021 12:57PM

lawred2 wrote: »

That's obviously a fair point. Maybe it's a perception thing.. but when it matters, I have little confidence in him going 100% off the tee in big games.

He was 9 from 9 in Clermont. He's normally fine but Leinster seems to be a bogey opponent for whatever reason.

yerrahbah · 24-01-2021 12:58PM

Nice bit of analysis by Jackman,

We had Leinster in their 22, miss a tackle, give away a soft penalty and Leinster score the game winning try

https://twitter.com/bernardjackman/status/1353308378890706944

molloyjh · 24-01-2021 12:58PM

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Ross Byrne came off the bench and landed a kick from the touchline. JJH can kick penalties but he has far too often missed sitters at clutch moments.

RDS in 2018 he missed from in front of the posts in a SF against a Leinster team sweating beer.

How many times has he missed touch in clutch moments ......

Yeah, in regular season games JJ is reliable. In big games though he can be very hit and miss. And that's been the case for some time now IIRC.

yerrahbah · 24-01-2021 01:00PM

Miller Dirty Selenium wrote: »

There was another (what could have been) promising attack in the first half, ball ended up on the wing and who was out there but POM. What the **** is he doing on the wing in attack when you've got some actual pace in the Munster backs?

O'Mahony spends a lot of time on the wing for both Munster and Ireland.

BoardsMember · 24-01-2021 01:02PM

I thought Brace missed a fair bit in Munster favour, but the lineout for the try was so crooked....

The Inbetween is mine · 24-01-2021 01:03PM

BoardsMember wrote: »

I thought Brace missed a fair bit in Munster favour, but the lineout for the try was so crooked....

Probably was.... but it's all about swings and roundabouts... plenty missed on both sides last night...

thomond2006 · 24-01-2021 01:05PM

BoardsMember wrote: »

I thought Brace missed a fair bit in Munster favour, but the lineout for the try was so crooked....

It was a criminal offside penalty from Wycherley that put Leinster in that position. Munster sabotaged themselves between missed kicks, indiscipline and errors while 10-0 ahead. That game was there to be won. Leinster got a bit of luck with the deflection on the kick through for the try and that's all they needed.

Burkie1203 · 24-01-2021 01:08PM

just watched the game back.

Shane Daly should have got a red card. Like its direct contact to the head. Not even a penalty is shameful from the officials.

Burkie1203 · 24-01-2021 01:10PM

BoardsMember wrote: »

I thought Brace missed a fair bit in Munster favour, but the lineout for the try was so crooked....

Marshall could easily have seen a YC for the tackle on Henshaw. On another day thats a serious injury

Daly should definitely have been sent off IMO. Direct contact to the head.

The two turnovers on the line were both very lucky decisions for Munster

BoardsMember · 24-01-2021 01:13PM

Burkie1203 wrote: »

just watched the game back.

Shane Daly should have got a red card. Like its direct contact to the head. Not even a penalty is shameful from the officials.

Agreed. I was roaring at the television. Player stayed down and there was a break in play. Hard to fathom how TMO didn't get involved.

Also not sure how the no arms tackle was not penalised. I thought at least one of the Munster turnovers on the try line were dubious, and I also don't think the Munsrer try would have been given at lot of the time. But thats a Leinster supporter perspective.

Burkie1203 · 24-01-2021 01:17PM

BoardsMember wrote: »

Agreed. I was roaring at the television. Player stayed down and there was a break in play. Hard to fathom how TMO didn't get involved.

Also not sure how the no arms tackle was not penalised. I thought at least one of the Munster turnovers on the try line were dubious, and I also don't think the Munsrer try would have been given at lot of the time. But thats a Leinster supporter perspective.

the munster try i dont think anyone can have issues with. The refs position was quite good and you look at one or two of the Leinster players body language and that tells you they saw a grounded ball too

The turnover in the 2nd half was a joke. Archer just flopped onto the Leinster side stopping any support getting to the breakdown. Given the position of the pitch a YC could have been given if the ref called it that way.

theVersatile · 24-01-2021 01:30PM

Jesus Christ lads. Marshall slid in to gather the ball as you're allowed to do and Henshaw got the brunt of it. It's a rugby collision. You'd swear he kicked him on purpose to trip him. The Daly/Keenan is barely a penalty - and the space wouldn't have been there to exploit if he'd just played away instead of trying to milk a penalty. Thank God he recovered so quickly once the ball was kicked in behind tho - I was awfully worried for his health...

Quick edit: note I haven't reviewed either incident since so perhaps red tinted glasses

thomond2006 · 24-01-2021 01:31PM

theVersatile wrote: »

Jesus Christ lads. Marshall slid in to gather the ball as you're allowed to do and Henshaw got the brunt of it. It's a rugby collision. You'd swear he kicked him on purpose to trip him. The Daly/Keenan is barely a penalty - and the space wouldn't have been there to exploit if he'd just played away instead of trying to milk a penalty. Thank God he recovered so quickly once the ball was kicked in behind tho - I was awfully worried for his health...

Quick edit: note I haven't reviewed either incident since so perhaps red tinted glasses

He was bleeding from the mouth and was clearly hurt. Give over.

Munster v Leinster Build Up Thread

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