Munster v Leinster Build Up Thread

almostover

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

His trajectory has been borderline meteoric this season.

But hes nowhere near what CJ and Doris offer at 8 and Ruddock was the superior 6 on the pitch tonight

Coombes edged Ruddock tonight on performance. His carries were more impactful. He has a lot of potential. Needs to be in the 6N squad at a minimum. We dont make too many like him. 6' 6" and 17.5st. That's SA size back row. He has good hands, is a strong carrier and will improve with experience.

TomsOnTheRoof

From an Ireland POV

Winners

Beirne
Coombes
POM (another good performance at openside)
Haley
James Ryan (best game he's played in a long time)
Henshaw
Ringrose (looked to be back fit)

Losers

Cronin
Marshall
Hanrahan
Farrell
Ruddock
Connors (stats may prove me wrong but apart from tackling it's difficult to see what he brings)
McGrath
There's an argument for adding Keenan but in all likelihood there's zero chance of him being dropped, especially for Haley.

Clegg

Don't think there's any argument for Keenan to be in the losers category. He had another fine game. The winning try doesn't happen without his offload.

Larmour had a mixed game. Was targeted repeatedly by box kicks and couldn't gather them. But scythed through Earls for the try and out in some lovely kicks.

Munster's wings had poor games. Not so much from individual effort but rather team tactics which saw them isolated from the action. Earls carried the ball for 8 metres and Daly made 2 metres. They weren't used.

thomond2006

Larmour is one of the bigger losers. He got his try and had a nice kick through where Leinster earned a 5m scrum but he had a horror show in the air.

TomsOnTheRoof

Clegg wrote: »

Don't think there's any argument for Keenan to be in the losers category. He had another fine game. The winning try doesn't happen without his offload.

I thought he came out second best to Haley but like I said it isn't a big deal. Not a hope in hell he gets dropped and Haley's brought in.

TomsOnTheRoof

That's a fair point on Larmour. With everyone fit there's a strong argument for him not making the Irish 23.

almostover

thomond2006 wrote: »

Larmour is one of the bigger losers. He got his try and had a nice kick through where Leinster earned a 5m scrum but he had a horror show in the air.

Was the only player who looked like breaking the line on the pitch tonight. He was manure in the air but he won Leinster the game.

almostover

TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »

From an Ireland POV

Winners

Beirne
Coombes
POM (another good performance at openside)
Haley
James Ryan (best game he's played in a long time)
Henshaw
Ringrose (looked to be back fit)

Losers

Cronin
Marshall
Hanrahan
Farrell
Ruddock
Connors (stats may prove me wrong but apart from tackling it's difficult to see what he brings)
McGrath
There's an argument for adding Keenan but in all likelihood there's zero chance of him being dropped, especially for Haley.

Have to agree on Connors. VdF in my eyes is a better option at 7 for Ireland. Offers more with ball in hand and works as hard in the tackle. POM will be the 7 for Ireland in the 6N however. Has found his form again.

For me the biggest worry heading into the 6N is the no.2 shirt. It's clear now why Rory Best was kept on so long. Monsters lineout lost them the game and Leinsters was no more than decent.

aloooof

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Murray's box kicking was on the money tonight. Really accurate and effective.

Mcgrath for all the plaudits he is getting was nowhere near his standard and Casey was several leagues below both.

Murray still the standout 9 in Ireland. Excellent performance tonight

Casey was on for what, 6 minutes? Really harsh to judge him just on that. He’s been excellent this season overall.

thomond2006

almostover wrote: »

Was the only player who looked like breaking the line on the pitch tonight. He was manure in the air but he won Leinster the game.

I mean, he was on the end of the try. That's hardly winning the game.
Had Munster held on, Larmour's drops would have been a bigger story.

arsebiscuits1

almostover wrote: »

Coombes edged Ruddock tonight on performance. His carries were more impactful. He has a lot of potential. Needs to be in the 6N squad at a minimum. We dont make too many like him. 6' 6" and 17.5st. That's SA size back row. He has good hands, is a strong carrier and will improve with experience.

Stats don't really show that. Ruddock had more tackles, impact tackles, carries, metres and metres per carry. Also he took some excellent lineout ball. They were on the pitch for similar amounts of time.

Obviously Coombes will get a lot better which is encouraging where as Rhys is probably at his ceiling.

But as they are now I'd take Ruddock 8 days a week

CrazyFather1

thomond2006 wrote: »

Larmour is one of the bigger losers. He got his try and had a nice kick through where Leinster earned a 5m scrum but he had a horror show in the air.

Not the only one to be honest. Munster box kicking was good.
I don't like how people are always on Larmours back, he has been out for weeks and only coming back from an injury. Any mistake and people are all over him. He is still very young but he is one of the most skilful players in Ireland, maybe we should try to enjoy him instead of constantly trying to find fault

thomond2006

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

Not the only one to be honest. Munster box kicking was good.
I don't like how people are always on Larmours back, he has been out for weeks and only coming back from an injury. Any mistake and people are all over him. He is still very young but he is one of the most skilful players in Ireland, maybe we should try to enjoy him instead of constantly trying to find fault

Larmour is a very good runner and his footwork is exceptional, however his ability in the air is a pretty glaring issue right now. Hopefully it's something he'll improve on.

almostover

thomond2006 wrote: »

I mean, he was on the end of the try. That's hardly winning the game.
Had Munster held on, Larmour's drops would have been a bigger story.

Showed a lovely sidestep to finish and a few probing kicks in behind by him caused trouble for the Munster defence. Made a few decent linebreaks in the 1st half too.

TomsOnTheRoof

almostover wrote: »

Have to agree on Connors. VdF in my eyes is a better option at 7 for Ireland. Offers more with ball in hand and works as hard in the tackle. POM will be the 7 for Ireland in the 6N however. Has found his form again.

For me the biggest worry heading into the 6N is the no.2 shirt. It's clear now why Rory Best was kept on so long. Monsters lineout lost them the game and Leinsters was no more than decent.

As a Munster fan I was beyond puzzled that O'Byrne missed out. For me he's someone that should be a lock in for any of the big games. Ireland could also do with having a look at him, he has great hands and his set piece work is excellent. I agree wholeheartedly that hooker is a massive worry.

aloooof

Clegg wrote: »

Don't think there's any argument for Keenan to be in the losers category. He had another fine game. The winning try doesn't happen without his offload.

Larmour had a mixed game. Was targeted repeatedly by box kicks and couldn't gather them. But scythed through Earls for the try and out in some lovely kicks.

Munster's wings had poor games. Not so much from individual effort but rather team tactics which saw them isolated from the action. Earls carried the ball for 8 metres and Daly made 2 metres. They weren't used.

I think that’s a harsh assessment, particularly on Shane Daly tbh, who I thought had a very good game.

CrazyFather1

It was an enjoyable game. I think the weather conditions played a part. Great to watch any sort of rugby to be honest, any sport at all.
Was great to see two fullish strength teams go up against each other, pity it wasn't a lovely summers day to see exactly what they could do but enjoyable evening sport

arsebiscuits1

TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »

From an Ireland POV

Winners

Beirne
Coombes
POM (another good performance at openside)
Haley
James Ryan (best game he's played in a long time)
Henshaw
Ringrose (looked to be back fit)

Losers

Cronin
Marshall
Hanrahan
Farrell
Ruddock
Connors (stats may prove me wrong but apart from tackling it's difficult to see what he brings)
McGrath
There's an argument for adding Keenan but in all likelihood there's zero chance of him being dropped, especially for Haley.

I'd need to watch it again but Connors as a chop tackle specialist made 6 tackles in 60 minutes (i had him at 4 missed) this was the lowest amount of any Leinster forward bad Cronin (5)

He did carry a reasonable 10 times but overall I feel the game passed him by.

UAEguy2020

almostover wrote: »

Have to agree on Connors. VdF in my eyes is a better option at 7 for Ireland. Offers more with ball in hand and works as hard in the tackle. POM will be the 7 for Ireland in the 6N however. Has found his form again.

For me the biggest worry heading into the 6N is the no.2 shirt. It's clear now why Rory Best was kept on so long. Monsters lineout lost them the game and Leinsters was no more than decent.

The lineout was pretty rubbish even when Best was there.

almostover

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Stats don't really show that. Ruddock had more tackles, impact tackles, carries, metres and metres per carry. Also he took some excellent lineout ball. They were on the pitch for similar amounts of time.

Obviously Coombes will get a lot better which is encouraging where as Rhys is probably at his ceiling.

But as they are now I'd take Ruddock 8 days a week

This is where Ireland selections have to change though. Ruddock is a safe bet for the 6N squad. Hardworking, abrasive and a decent lineout option. Coombes has the potential to be destructive and if I could criticise him he looks like his fitness is 5% or so off at this level. Easily remedied. Coombes is the selection if you want to go to RWC 2023 with a destructive option in the backrow. Him and Doris in the backrow would give us some heavy carrying options.

arsebiscuits1

aloooof wrote: »

Casey was on for what, 6 minutes? Really harsh to judge him just on that. He’s been excellent this season overall.

I had him at 4 box kicks. 1 of which was mildly contestable.

When you're chasing a game and want impact from your subs they needed to be better.

Munsters game plan of putting the Leinster back 3 under pressure with kicks worked superbly. Casey didn't add to that.

awec

TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »

From an Ireland POV

Winners

Beirne
Coombes
POM (another good performance at openside)
Haley
James Ryan (best game he's played in a long time)
Henshaw
Ringrose (looked to be back fit)

Losers

Cronin
Marshall
Hanrahan
Farrell
Ruddock
Connors (stats may prove me wrong but apart from tackling it's difficult to see what he brings)
McGrath
There's an argument for adding Keenan but in all likelihood there's zero chance of him being dropped, especially for Haley.

Larmour is a loser too. Hopelessly exposed under the aerial threat.

arsebiscuits1

almostover wrote: »

This is where Ireland selections have to change though. Ruddock is a safe bet for the 6N squad. Hardworking, abrasive and a decent lineout option. Coombes has the potential to be destructive and if I could criticise him he looks like his fitness is 5% or so off at this level. Easily remedied. Coombes is the selection if you want to go to RWC 2023 with a destructive option in the backrow. Him and Doris in the backrow would give us some heavy carrying options.

This i agree with.

Coombes is a future pick. He's easily european standard at barely 23 years old.

He's durable and uncompromising and actually reminds me a lot of Ruddock.

I think Coombes has a really bright future in green and would love to see him in Green sooner than later.

However if we're going solely on form i don't think Coombes should be there at the expense of Ruddock

Think Chris Farrell and Will Connors would be two who didn't do much for their Ireland chances today

Think some of the Larmour calls are quite exaggerated

Beirne, Haley, Keenan, Henshaw and Ryan played well

stephen_n

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

Not the only one to be honest. Munster box kicking was good.
I don't like how people are always on Larmours back, he has been out for weeks and only coming back from an injury. Any mistake and people are all over him. He is still very young but he is one of the most skilful players in Ireland, maybe we should try to enjoy him instead of constantly trying to find fault

He knocked on 3 balls in the first 12 minutes of the game. That is an absolute liability at this level. He is undoubtedly one of the best attacking options we have. That’s not the first time he has had a nightmare under the highball though. It is a consistent problem in his game.

almostover

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

This i agree with.

Coombes is a future pick. He's easily european standard at barely 23 years old.

He's durable and uncompromising and actually reminds me a lot of Ruddock.

I think Coombes has a really bright future in green and would love to see him in Green sooner than later.

However if we're going solely on form i don't think Coombes should be there at the expense of Ruddock

Would love to see Dan Leavy make it back to the level he was once at and Coombes fulfill his potential. If you teamed that up with Doris continuing to deliver on his potential you would be looking at a massive backrow for the 2023 RWC. Agree with you that Farrel should pick on form but we badly need to perform for once at a world cup as a nation. That means putting guys in with an eye to the future. France have done that, look at how they backed a young Gregory Aldritt. He's a serious player now. We need to start doing the same.

realhorrorshow

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Murray's box kicking was on the money tonight. Really accurate and effective.

Mcgrath for all the plaudits he is getting was nowhere near his standard and Casey was several leagues below both.

Murray still the standout 9 in Ireland. Excellent performance tonight

Harsh on Casey, he played 6 minutes.

arsebiscuits1

Just a word on Hugo Keenan.

His involvement for the try was just class. Just watched the highlights there.

It was such a wonderfully executed moved. But Byrne seemed to fluff his kick a bit and it seemed like it needed another 5m on it.

Keenan barrels through, gets the ball, takes contact on his own terms and offloads straight into the bread basket of Larmour. All in the space of less than 2 seconds. Unbelievable skill. And just expected of him now. Standout 15 in Ireland at the moment

TomsOnTheRoof

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

I'd need to watch it again but Connors as a chop tackle specialist made 6 tackles in 60 minutes (i had him at 4 missed) this was the lowest amount of any Leinster forward bad Cronin (5)

He did carry a reasonable 10 times but overall I feel the game passed him by.

Didn't realise he was so low on the tackle count. He'll struggle to get back in to the starting 23 with POM and JVDF

arsebiscuits1

realhorrorshow wrote: »

Harsh on Casey, he played 6 minutes.

As above.

He had 4 kicks. Not an insignificant amount of kicks in 6 minutes. Only one was contestable and it was still long.