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Covid 19 Part XXXI-187,554 ROI (2,970 deaths) 100,319 NI (1,730 deaths)(24/01)Read OP

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Comments

  • #8492
    Gruffalux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Gruffalux


    DOCARCH wrote: »
    Then you have to give everybody who has already been vaccinated a booster/updated vaccine?

    Bit of a logistical nightmare!

    We will have arms like pin cushions. The South African tweak. The Brazilian tweak. The Nova Scotian tweak. The Honolulu tweak. Etcetera and etcetera.
    We could call ourselves the Tweaker Civilisation. :)


  • #8493
    DOCARCH
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,935 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Who knows - Pfizer/Biontech don't seem overly concerned about the new strains and are confident.

    I would not expect them to be....$$$ :)

    Anyway, point I am getting at, as much as I dislike restrictions/lockdowns, is that vaccination is not going to be the (immediate) panacea some are hoping for. It is part of the solution and it may well be a long and bumpy road!


  • #8494
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Coveney today on mandatory quarantines. High compliance with negative PCR test apparently.
    The Minister for Foreign Affairs Simon Coveney has said mandatory quarantine for those travelling into Ireland would be "much more difficult to do than the benefit that it would derive".


    https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2021/0122/1191399-oireachtas-committee/


  • #8495
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    DOCARCH wrote: »
    I would not expect them to be....$$$ :)

    Anyway, point I am getting at, as much as I dislike restrictions/lockdowns, is that vaccination is not going to be the (immediate) panacea some are hoping for. It is part of the solution and it may well be a long and bumpy road!
    Pfizer are just recouping cost and a bit extra AFAIK but I am happy to see Biontech reap the rewards of this, they have some very exciting ideas they can now fund. Th vaccines are not a panacea but a no worse than a cold outcome for all of us from COVID is good enough.


  • #8496
    snotboogie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,795 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    DOCARCH wrote: »
    I would not expect them to be....$$$ :)

    Anyway, point I am getting at, as much as I dislike restrictions/lockdowns, is that vaccination is not going to be the (immediate) panacea some are hoping for. It is part of the solution and it may well be a long and bumpy road!

    I never understand what people mean when they say this? Are you saying that when we vaccinate to herd immunity that we will still have restrictions?


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  • #8497
    Stateofyou
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Who knows - Pfizer/Biontech don't seem overly concerned about the new strains and are confident. Logistics would be less of a problem as we'd have the whole network up and running, we'd know the order of vaccination and at 200K-250K shots a week and plenty of vaccines it really wouldn't take as long .

    Yesterday I watched US Dr. Fauci give a statement and take questions in their press conference. He is concerned about the new strains, and the efficacy of the vaccines...


  • #8498
    Eod100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,178 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Coveney today on mandatory quarantines. High compliance with negative PCR test apparently.




    https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2021/0122/1191399-oireachtas-committee/

    I'd be curious what he means by this ''"We don't have legal entitlement to hold someone in the airport indefinitely", he said.'' Is that related to the consequence of not having a not detected result? Don't think anyone expects them to be detained but could be turned around on the next flight.


  • #8499
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Coveney today on mandatory quarantines. High compliance with negative PCR test apparently.




    https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2021/0122/1191399-oireachtas-committee/

    Of course we can't. And when we all have the Brazilian version we can close all the shops indefinitely.


  • #8500
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    snotboogie wrote: »
    I never understand what people mean when they say this? Are you saying that when we vaccinate to herd immunity that we will still have restrictions?
    There's a lot of talking down expectations as we just don't know yet. They should go as long as the vaccines protect or the virus symptoms are mild.


  • #8501
    Irish Steve
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,524 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    seamus wrote: »
    I wonder what this new data they've seen is. Probably a small study that found some increased risk.

    Reading between the lines of their statement "Irish data compares very favourably", I would say they've been itching to find some reason to justify telling pregnant HCW to stay home, and now they have some study to back it up.

    Human tragedy notwithstanding, a pregnancy developing complications due to covid acquired at work by a HCW would be a PR and morale disaster for the HSE.


    Sky news last night, in the early hours, didn't give details of the occupation of the mother, carried a lenghty report from a London ICU of a mid 30's mother, 7 months pregnant who caught Covid, she had no underlying conditions that anyone was aware of.

    Ended up in ICU, and they had to make the decision to perform an emegency caeserian section 2 months early due to her deteriorating condition.

    The ONLY good news to come out of that report is that some weeks later, both mother and baby are still alive, Mother is now out of ICU, but still in hospital, and the baby is doing OK, having required intensive treatment after the operation to remove her.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



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  • #8502
    DOCARCH
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,935 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    snotboogie wrote: »
    I never understand what people mean when they say this? Are you saying that when we vaccinate to herd immunity that we will still have restrictions?

    As a poster (...can't recall who...) stated earlier, we are likely to have some form of restrictions (even if it is just travel related) until most of the world's population is vaccinated/until the virus is globally contained/managed.


  • #8503
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    Of course we can't. And when we all have the Brazilian version we can close all the shops indefinitely.
    What? Is there a bit in your head that you didn't write down?!


  • #8504
    marno21
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,650 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Interesting

    https://twitter.com/ons/status/1352589226878107648?s=21


  • #8505
    alexonhisown
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 668 ✭✭✭alexonhisown


    is_that_so wrote: »
    There is a lot of chatter but not a lot of evidence to date of what it means. Gotta say large sections of the media are completely hooked on pandemic porn. BionTech reckon they could tweak their vaccine in a matter of weeks. That's beauty of mRNA vaccines.

    If they have to tweak the vaccine for new variants would it mean anyone previously vaccinated would have to be vaccinated again?


  • #8506
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    More on the coronavirus becoming as mild as a cold naturally.
    One day, the pandemic will end. Scientists don't know how that finale will play out but a new model offers a teaser: The deadly SARS-CoV-2 may not totally disappear but instead become a commonly circulating cold virus that just causes some mild sniffles.


    https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-common-cold-virus-future.html


  • #8507
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    alexonhisown wrote: »
    If they have to tweak the vaccine for new variants would it mean anyone previously vaccinated would have to be vaccinated again?
    I think we'll have to wait to see if that is the case. My guess is we might need a booster but if it's just mild symptoms what's the point?


  • #8508
    Turtwig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    alexonhisown wrote: »
    If they have to tweak the vaccine for new variants would it mean anyone previously vaccinated would have to be vaccinated again?

    It would depend on the pathways the variants use. If the variants completely evaded the immune response then you would have to update everyone's jabs.


  • #8509
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Eod100 wrote: »
    I'd be curious what he means by this ''"We don't have legal entitlement to hold someone in the airport indefinitely", he said.'' Is that related to the consequence of not having a not detected result? Don't think anyone expects them to be detained but could be turned around on the next flight.
    Very few can probably be turned around and sent home.

    Anyone from Britain or the EU can't. Anyone with a valid visa can't.

    Which means that realistically the pool of people who can be easily turned around at the airport and sent home is quite small. And while we could have done things like suspend the visa waiver programmes, 80% of incoming travel is from Britain and Europe. So it would be a like like boarding up a window while the front door is still wide open.

    So if you can't send them home, then what? Detention then. In a hotel? As you can imagine, that gets complicated. Detention of someone who hasn't broken any law is a complex area. The health act allows for enforced quarantine, but in limited circumstances.
    If we try to expand that, you start touching on other legal issues and civil rights. Especially for Irish & EU citizens. Not to mention the ****storm that might ensue if we start locking US citizens in hotel rooms when they're not doing the same with Irish citizens.

    I do feel like people don't appreciate how complicated the issue is. They can't just close travel and/or force people into quarantine.

    At the same time, they have been sitting on this complexity as a convenient excuse for doing very little. There is a lot more they could have been doing in the way of enforcement and regulation of airlines.


  • #8510
    Renault 5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 171 ✭✭Renault 5


    It’s a concern that the ICU is getting so stretched at this stage.

    One of my concerns is that yesterday it was mentioned that 1/3 of COVID-19 cases in hospital are people who caught it in hospital when they were their for other medial issues.

    Is there data to say how many of the COVID-19 patients in ICU had caught the virus in hospital leading them to be admitted to ICU?


  • #8511
    D.Q
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,054 ✭✭✭D.Q


    is_that_so wrote: »
    More on the coronavirus becoming as mild as a cold naturally.




    https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-common-cold-virus-future.html

    ah I hate when viruses sell out like that.

    It's older stuff was way more edgy.


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  • #8512
    snotboogie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,795 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    DOCARCH wrote: »
    As a poster (...can't recall who...) stated earlier, we are likely to have some form of restrictions (even if it is just travel related) until most of the world's population is vaccinated/until the virus is globally contained/managed.

    But that doesn't refute the vaccine being a panacea and the only real show in town to stop (rather than slow down) the pandemic. It just means that it will take time to roll out.


  • #8513
    Eod100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,178 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    seamus wrote: »
    At the same time, they have been sitting on this complexity as a convenient excuse for doing very little. There is a lot more they could have been doing in the way of enforcement and regulation of airlines.

    It comes down to that bit for me. There is of course other considerations but in the context of a global pandemic and people's freedom of movement curtailed massively I don't think it's the impediment that they're making it out to be, especially when there seems to have been very little effort to even explore it.

    It's clear the EU are considering more restrictions so could well be tighter restrictions anyway. Will be complicated by UK not being in EU anymore and with CTA but the blanket ''it can't be done'' from the government is getting fairly tiresome at this stage.

    Did anyone think people could be fined for being more than 5k from their house without an essential reason? The context is very different to usual abstract legal concepts from pre-covid.


  • #8514
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,449 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    marno21 wrote: »
    Interesting


    Certainly is interesting. I'll probably get jumped on by a few of the usual posters who've done it in the past but more data is needed still, its difficult to come to a conclusion either way on transmissibility, however I still stick to my original point that it quite simply could just be a change in dominant strain, of which there have been many since this pandemic begun, the relaxation of restrictions in the UK and the start of the festive period may have simply just given it the chance to spread. In other words right conditions at the right time.

    But really its still far to early to be definitive in any theory.

    Decent thread here also.

    https://twitter.com/WesPegden/status/1352607414823084032?s=19

    To back up the point on change of dominant strains / linages throughout
    [Url] [/url]


  • #8515
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    Interesting

    For example in an Irish sense it may be that

    This variant isn't growing because it's more transmissible its growing because 10,000 idiots flew into the country from an area where its rampant. As these are people who ignored the guidance not to fly in they ignored other guidance and they spread it like wildfire.


  • #8516
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    Interesting

    For example in an Irish sense it may be that

    This variant isn't growing because it's more transmissible its growing because 10,000 idiots flew into the country from an area where its rampant. As these are people who ignored the guidance not to fly in they ignored other guidance and they spread it like wildfire.
    It's probably a bit of everything tbh. If it was solely down to socialising we'd have seen a surge of infections across all variants.

    The fact that B117 surged more than others and is slowly dominating, says that it has some competitive edge over the others.

    Very interesting though to see it more sensitive to control measures than other variants and declining faster. Its not unusual for infections to lose in one area when they gain an edge in another. For example, if the variant is better at infecting, but also slightly more vulnerable to the immune system, then the mean period of infectivity, might be reduced by a day or so. Which would make it better at infecting when people are mixing, but considerably more vulnerable to social distancing and quarantining.


  • #8517
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,449 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    2075 swabs from 23,581 tests. 8.8%.

    7 day now at 10.8%


  • #8518
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Edit: Beaten to it.

    Good numbers today.

    Interestingly yesterday's swabs got revised too, so yesterday's positivity rate was 9.99%.

    Decline in swabs is staying solid. Down 35% week-on-week. Translates to a halving every two weeks, an R0 of about 0.5.


  • #8519
    cameramonkey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,220 ✭✭✭cameramonkey


    seamus wrote: »
    It's probably a bit of everything tbh. If it was solely down to socialising we'd have seen a surge of infections across all variants.


    Did we not see a surge in infections across all variants? Are you saying the UK one surged and the other did not?


  • #8520
    ninebeanrows
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,780 ✭✭✭✭ninebeanrows


    Decent swab numbers today off a lot of tests

    We are making good progress


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  • #8521
    copeyhagen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,527 ✭✭✭copeyhagen


    Renault 5 wrote: »
    It’s a concern that the ICU is getting so stretched at this stage.

    One of my concerns is that yesterday it was mentioned that 1/3 of COVID-19 cases in hospital are people who caught it in hospital when they were their for other medial issues.

    Is there data to say how many of the COVID-19 patients in ICU had caught the virus in hospital leading them to be admitted to ICU?

    50% was the figure a week or two ago, not 1/3


This discussion has been closed.
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