Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

2021 Irish Property Market chat - *mod warnings post 1*

Options
1…4344464849…352

Comments

  • Options
    #1352
    PropQueries
    Registered Users Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭PropQueries


    awec wrote: »
    It's not that big a deal. We've social houses in our development and it doesn't bother me at all.

    I don't think very many people spend too much time thinking about what their neighbours are paying in mortgage or rent. Once you can afford your own, just get on with your life and enjoy it.


    I think it matters in the sense that people who are buying or renting are paying much much more for their homes due to the local councils or state outbidding them for both homes for sale or for rent and driving up the sales prices and rents for both.


    The state will then give those same renters e.g. HAP or HTB (i.e. charity) and make out like they're some charity cases because they can't afford the rent or purchase price which is primarily due to the state using those same renters/buyers own taxes to outbid them and drive up the prices in the first place.


    For example, Glenveagh has been trying to sell those apartments in Greystones for a while now with no success and would have had to reduce the prices significantly to sell them into the private market.


    But now, a fund will buy them and more than likely lease them to the local council for rents that most private renters could never afford and thereby driving up the rents everywhere in the local area.


  • Options
    #1353
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,843 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    awec wrote: »
    It's not that big a deal. We've social houses in our development and it doesn't bother me at all.

    I don't think very many people spend too much time thinking about what their neighbours are paying in mortgage or rent. Once you can afford your own, just get on with your life and enjoy it.

    the big difference is many hard workers, paying for the madness, wont ever be able to live in these luxury well located houses and apartments, they wont qualify. They will be living in some kip or miles out, commuting!


  • Options
    #1354
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,798 ✭✭✭hometruths


    Timing belt wrote: »
    I have always said inflation will be an issue.... It's just that I don't see it feeding through on the CPI for a while yet... but who know I might be wrong... That is why I was interested in your opinion on whether we would see inflation or not.

    (when I talk about inflation I mean CPI not asset inflation)

    I think we're already seeing asset/commodity price inflation.

    CPI in the Uk creeping up -
    The Consumer Prices Index (CPI) 12-month rate was 0.6% in December 2020, up from 0.3% in November; on a monthly basis, CPI grew by 0.3% in December 2020, following a 0.1% fall in November.

    I do think we might also have quite a serious problem with CPI inflation looming.

    Central Banks seem to be trying to tick it up a bit, but if it gathers momentum they'll find it hard to get the genie back in the bottle, and they may end up caught between a rock and a hard place.


  • Options
    #1355
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,843 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    PropQueries wrote: »
    I think it matters in the sense that people who are buying or renting are paying much much more for their homes due to the local councils or state outbidding them for both homes for sale or for rent and driving up the sales prices and rents for both.


    The state will then give those same renters e.g. HAP or HTB (i.e. charity) and make out like they're some charity cases because they can't afford the rent or purchase price which is primarily due to the state using those same renters/buyers own taxes to outbid them and drive up the prices in the first place.


    For example, Glenveagh has been trying to sell those apartments in Greystones for a while now with no success and would have had to reduce the prices significantly to sell them into the private market.


    But now, a fund will buy them and more than likely lease them to the local council for rents that most private renters could never afford and thereby driving up the rents everywhere in the local area.

    it is not just this, think of the income tax implications to fund this lunacy! Workers would be able to afford more and save more, if they werent forking out for the likes of this joke!

    I suppose asking to people in this social housing to actually pay appropriate rents or pay rent at all, or a property tax, is asking too much! Solidarity! LOL!


  • Options
    #1356
    Villa05
    Registered Users Posts: 4,513 ✭✭✭Villa05


    awec wrote:
    I don't think very many people spend too much time thinking about what their neighbours are paying in mortgage or rent. Once you can afford your own, just get on with your life and enjoy it.


    Not knowing you being robbed does help the perpetrator

    Irish mortgage holders pay 2,000 euro per year more in interest as result of disparities in rates directly attributable to property market and bank mismanagement.
    Many mortgage payers will have to earn 4,000 to cover it due to high taxes. High taxes need to be paid because what the government pay for 1 House could build 4 houses using a different approach.

    Govt policy increases the price of housing meaning more and more need social or subsidised housing

    The cycle continues resulting in a bubble. The bubble bursts, who pays for it? The taxpayer

    And they all live happily ever after


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #1357
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,843 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    awec wrote: »
    It's not that big a deal. We've social houses in our development and it doesn't bother me at all.

    I don't think very many people spend too much time thinking about what their neighbours are paying in mortgage or rent. Once you can afford your own, just get on with your life and enjoy it.

    35 years of paying 2k a month or more in mortgage, for what your neighbours are getting for free. After you likely saved and broke your balls for years for the deposit, to furnish it, maintain it etc. They get it for zero effort, dont need to work, you are paying for it all for them and yourself...


  • Options
    #1358
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,818 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    35 years of paying 2k a month or more in mortgage, for what your neighbours are getting for free. After you likely saved and broke your balls for years for the deposit, to furnish it, maintain it etc. They get it for zero effort, dont need to work, you are paying for it all for them and yourself...

    Social housing is not free.


  • Options
    #1359
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,798 ✭✭✭hometruths


    PropQueries wrote: »
    I think it matters in the sense that people who are buying or renting are paying much much more for their homes due to the local councils or state outbidding them for both homes for sale or for rent and driving up the sales prices and rents for both.


    The state will then give those same renters e.g. HAP or HTB (i.e. charity) and make out like they're some charity cases because they can't afford the rent or purchase price which is primarily due to the state using those same renters/buyers own taxes to outbid them and drive up the prices in the first place.


    For example, Glenveagh has been trying to sell those apartments in Greystones for a while now with no success and would have had to reduce the prices significantly to sell them into the private market.


    But now, a fund will buy them and more than likely lease them to the local council for rents that most private renters could never afford and thereby driving up the rents everywhere in the local area.

    Completely agree. I'd love to think that there is somebody in the council who would say "Hang on, the whole reason these were sold off in bulk is precisely because there were no takers to rent them at 2500 per month, so don't come knocking on our door telling us the market rent is 2500 per month."

    Council should just refuse to pay these sort of rents, then they'll get offered back to private rental market and let at lower rents, freeing up other rental stock that might be more suitable and cheaper for social housing.


  • Options
    #1360
    fliball123
    Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    SmokyMo wrote: »
    You can buy at any time when you renting.. Dont get your point.

    I do get a whiff of fear in this thread from homeowners knowing deep inside they overpaid for their property and afraid of any price fluctuations.

    My point is for every month you pay rent your losing the money when your paying a mortgage at least some is coming off the amount you owe for the property. I think the trends are now that in a lot of areas you pay more for rent than a mortgage.


  • Options
    #1361
    PropQueries
    Registered Users Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭PropQueries


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    35 years of paying 2k a month or more in mortgage, for what your neighbours are getting for free. After you likely saved and broke your balls for years for the deposit, to furnish it, maintain it etc. They get it for zero effort, dont need to work, you are paying for it all for them and yourself...


    I get where you're coming from, but I would direct my frustration at the staff in the councils and state who are agreeing to these terms. They could get much much better terms for both purchasing or leasing if they put a tiny bit of effort into the negotiations and understood that they're most likely the only buyer/renter in town willing to pay anything near what they're currently paying.



    IMO, they're most likely agreeing to these terms as it doesn't impact them as the state is borrowing money to ensure their current salaries are mainly unaffected by the current economic environment. The PUP payments are primarily funded by the raiding of the surplus in the PRSI fund so not much borrowed money is going into those PUP payments.



    If the state couldn't borrow and their salaries had to drop by e.g. 25%, their negotiation tactics would change fairly quickly IMO


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #1362
    Browney7
    Registered Users Posts: 3,099 ✭✭✭Browney7


    schmittel wrote: »
    Completely agree. I'd love to think that there is somebody in the council who would say "Hang on, the whole reason these were sold off in bulk is precisely because there were no takers to rent them at 2500 per month, so don't come knocking on our door telling us the market rent is 2500 per month."

    Council should just refuse to pay these sort of rents, then they'll get offered back to private rental market and let at lower rents, freeing up other rental stock that might be more suitable and cheaper for social housing.

    The council will bite at 2250 and spin that it's "a 10% discount to prevailing market rents and we're allocating our resources to alleviate housing pressures" etc etc. Those that care don't know and those that know don't care.


  • Options
    #1363
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,429 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    35 years of paying 2k a month or more in mortgage, for what your neighbours are getting for free. After you likely saved and broke your balls for years for the deposit, to furnish it, maintain it etc. They get it for zero effort, dont need to work, you are paying for it all for them and yourself...

    1. It's not free
    2. On any street in Ireland, it is likely that neighbours are all paying vastly different sums for almost identical properties. This is particularly true in older developments.
    3. The reality is that the less fortunate in society do need to be housed, and we know from experience that building social ghettos is a policy guaranteed to fail.


  • Options
    #1364
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,843 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    awec wrote: »
    1. It's not free
    2. On any street in Ireland, it is likely that neighbours are all paying vastly different sums for almost identical properties. This is particularly true in older developments.
    3. The reality is that the less fortunate in society do need to be housed, and we know from experience that building social ghettos is a policy guaranteed to fail.

    all of this applies in other countries too, you think they are getting these kind of properties for token gesture rents that are optional in other countries? LOL! do you think the working poor there are hit with a marginal rate over a pittance to pay for it? while they themselves cant afford to live in anything like that standard of accommodation?

    Paid ridiculous taxes into the system over the year, I never have or never will benefit from this luxury free housing, medical card etc. Dublin has a third world transport system, I am hit by a fifty percent marginal rate. These endless black financial holes here, I should just accept or be delighted by it should I? some of you are very easy to please!


  • Options
    #1365
    Sweet.Science
    Registered Users Posts: 2,837 ✭✭✭Sweet.Science


    awec wrote: »
    1. It's not free
    2. On any street in Ireland, it is likely that neighbours are all paying vastly different sums for almost identical properties. This is particularly true in older developments.
    3. The reality is that the less fortunate in society do need to be housed, and we know from experience that building social ghettos is a policy guaranteed to fail.

    Its not free. However paying rent is optional .


  • Options
    #1366
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,843 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Sweet.Science wrote: »
    Its not free. However paying rent is optional .

    i dont respond to the its not free comments any more, we go around in circles. Everyone has their entrenched position.

    Mine is, when its a token gesture rent, often paid with free money and it is indeed optional, it is free...

    Its an insult to those paying market rent or mortgages financing the madness, to even acknowledge that they are somehow making a contribution. But you would have the same people here , saying that if they contributed 1c a month rent, sure isnt it a contribution, solidarity etc :rolleyes:


  • Options
    #1367
    HansKroenke
    Closed Accounts Posts: 254 ✭✭HansKroenke


    Sweet.Science wrote: »
    Its not free. However paying rent is optional .

    On that;

    540077.jpg


  • Options
    #1368
    PropQueries
    Registered Users Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭PropQueries


    HansKroenke wrote: »
    On that;


    So he's owed c. €18,000 in unpaid rent since last May, so 8 months rent.


    The bigger scandal here is the c.€18,000 in rent being charged over 8 months IMO

    If the council wasn't driving up rents in the local area, he'd probably be only owed €9,000. But at €9,000, he may have no rent arrears as the renters may have paid it. There's no point in the renters paying €9,000 if they still owe another €9,000 so they're better off not paying anything IMO. I'm actually on the renters side on this one :)


  • Options
    #1369
    fliball123
    Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    PropQueries wrote: »
    So he's owed c. €18,000 in unpaid rent since last May, so 8 months rent.


    The bigger scandal here is the c.€18,000 in rent being charged over 8 months IMO

    Hang on the tenant agreed to pay it. Its not like the landlord pulled a gun on him and said pay or else your dead. The tenant had the choice to live there or not to live there. This kind of argument is just stupid.

    This countries main problem is lack of accountability and no repercussions for people who don't live up to what they have agreed to do. Its rampant from our politicians to people renting on both sides landlords and tenants and mortgage holders who expect to keep their gaff when they decide they dont want to pay


  • Options
    #1370
    HansKroenke
    Closed Accounts Posts: 254 ✭✭HansKroenke


    PropQueries wrote: »
    So he's owed c. €18,000 in unpaid rent since last May, so 8 months rent.


    The bigger scandal here is the c.€18,000 in rent being charged over 8 months IMO

    If the council wasn't driving up rents in the local area, he's probably be only owed €9,000. But at €9,000, he may have no rent arrears as the renters may have paid it. There's no point in the renters paying €9,000 if they still owe another €18,000 so they're better off not paying anything IMO. I'm actually on the renters side on this one :)

    I think that's probably in line with the market (i.e. Dublin 2/4 since it is Owen Reilly) at 2300 per month.

    The biggest scandal is that it is not possible to actually evict a tenant quickly for non-payment of rent. The process of giving a 14 day warning followed by a notice to terminate should enable the landlord to secure possession of the property after this time but, as we know, it can take months before a landlord secures possession. This is terribly unfair on landlords.


  • Options
    #1371
    Granolite
    Registered Users Posts: 199 ✭✭Granolite


    fliball123 wrote: »
    Hang on the tenant agreed to pay it. Its not like the landlord pulled a gun on him and said pay or else your dead. The tenant had the choice to live there or not to live there. This kind of argument is just stupid.


    Not only that but there may be unpaid rent due from before May last year. Just because it's stated that zero rent has been paid over the 8 intervening months does not mean there is not unpaid rent from the preceding period.

    5.6kWp - SW (220 degrees) - North Sligo



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #1372
    Cyrus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,706 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    PropQueries wrote: »
    The bigger scandal here is the c.€18,000 in rent being charged over 8 months IMO

    it's really not.


  • Options
    #1373
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,798 ✭✭✭hometruths


    HansKroenke wrote: »
    On that;

    So the last time rent was paid was in April last year, coincidentally around the time COVID eviction bans were introduced.

    I suspect there is an enormous amount of this going on, and likely to be a bloodbath of evictions when things get back to normal.

    Will the government try and stop it? Difficult to see how they could.


  • Options
    #1374
    PropQueries
    Registered Users Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭PropQueries


    HansKroenke wrote: »
    I think that's probably in line with the market (i.e. Dublin 2/4 since it is Owen Reilly) at 2300 per month.

    The biggest scandal is that it is not possible to actually evict a tenant quickly for non-payment of rent. The process of giving a 14 day warning followed by a notice to terminate should enable the landlord to secure possession of the property after this time but, as we know, it can take months before a landlord secures possession. This is terribly unfair on landlords.


    Well if a big corporate like Boots can play the system and stop paying their rent due to Covid etc., I have absolutely no problem with tenants who lost their jobs or their income being substantially reduced playing the system either.


    "Boots stops paying some landlords as it seeks post-Covid rent deals"


    Link to Irish Times article here: https://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/boots-stops-paying-some-landlords-as-it-seeks-post-covid-rent-deals-1.4331618


  • Options
    #1375
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,843 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    totally ridiculous, but is it not more ridiculous that his neighbours are getting it free. I mean seriously, there is outrage that he hasnt paid the rent, and yes the system here with regards evictions is a joke, always the victim, never to blame!

    I find it hilarious here the way the media wont touch issues like this with a bargepole, its why pretty much the entire population here is conditioned to think that this lunatic asylum, is actually normal.

    I really foresee massive issues here coming down the line, they just take ridiculously long to manifest! way longer than you would expect...


  • Options
    #1376
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    PropQueries wrote: »
    Well if a big corporate like Boots can play the system and stop paying their rent due to Covid etc., I have absolutely no problem with tenants who lost their jobs or their income being substantially reduced playing the system either.


    "Boots stops paying some landlords as it seeks post-Covid rent deals"


    Link to Irish Times article here: https://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/boots-stops-paying-some-landlords-as-it-seeks-post-covid-rent-deals-1.4331618

    Guess LL should do the same regarding any of their costs, also. Stop paying for RTB, all other taxes, mortgage if they have one, repairs etc. Everyone just stop paying for everything.


  • Options
    #1377
    Sweet.Science
    Registered Users Posts: 2,837 ✭✭✭Sweet.Science


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    totally ridiculous, but is it not more ridiculous that his neighbours are getting it free. I mean seriously, there is outrage that he hasnt paid the rent, and yes the system here with regards evictions is a joke, always the victim, never to blame!

    I find it hilarious here the way the media wont touch issues like this with a bargepole, its why pretty much the entire population here is conditioned to think that this lunatic asylum, is actually normal.

    I really foresee massive issues here coming down the line, they just take ridiculously long to manifest! way longer than you would expect...

    The vulnerable dont have to pay rent

    The elite dont have to pay their mortgage


  • Options
    #1378
    TheSheriff
    Registered Users Posts: 1,108 ✭✭✭TheSheriff


    SmokyMo wrote: »

    I am sympathetic to people who bought recently as everyone situation is different.

    I remember this comment being made multiple times now on this thread, probably two years back. I don't feel sorry or sympathetic for those people who bought: I feel sympathetic for those caught in never ending rent, which is likely to continue.


  • Options
    #1379
    PropQueries
    Registered Users Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭PropQueries


    beauf wrote: »
    Guess LL should do the same regarding any of their costs, also. Stop paying for RTB, all other taxes, mortgage if they have one, repairs etc. Everyone just stop paying for everything.


    If I remember correctly, just after the last bust, many suppliers to the councils, state etc. found it very difficult to get paid for services provided.


    So not only do big companies engage in these tactics, so does the state.


    The banks were the same with the tracker mortgage scandal when they were broke etc. etc.


    Landlords in Ireland actually get very lucky given how the vast vast majority of tenants continue to pay their rent even through bad times.


  • Options
    #1380
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    ....
    I really foresee massive issues here coming down the line, they just take ridiculously long to manifest! way longer than you would expect...

    There already are. People couldn't get a place to rent if they were in any support payments. So the law was changed. High risk tenants couldn't find any places to rent, the law was changed. Etc. Some of these rules banning evictions etc, are to protect tenants, but they are also to stop LL from leaving the market.

    Banks aren't willing to risk lending to builders, builders aren't willing to build property with low margin profit, or high risk. Especially at the low end. End result shortage of supply at the low end especially. Covid makes this worse, some getting poorer some getting richer. They will build to the market that can pay them.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #1381
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,843 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    TheSheriff wrote: »
    I remember this comment being made multiple times now on this thread, probably two years back. I don't feel sorry or sympathetic for those people who bought: I feel sympathetic for those caught in never ending rent, which is likely to continue.

    and would it be fair to say, that those caught in the rent trap are total victims of taxation reducing their spending power, to finance their own homes and idiotic housing policies?

    we have a political set up of FFG, as a generalisation, they would get no votes from the social housing brigate, YET , YET the "middle" they claim to represent, are becoming worse off and hammered, to finance the absolute pisstaking as you correctly point out, that goes on at the top and "bottom"... "bottom"... :rolleyes:

    I've been saying that for years...


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement