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Covid 19 Part XXXI-187,554 ROI (2,970 deaths) 100,319 NI (1,730 deaths)(24/01)Read OP

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Comments

  • #7202
    jmm111
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6 ✭jmm111


    Interesting article from RTE website - 200 people in ICU, 200 others getting respiratory support
    As 200 people with Covid-19 received treatment in intensive care units around the country today, at least another 200 others were getting high levels of respiratory support outside ICUs.

    What treatments are the other 1500+ people in hospital with COVID getting?


  • #7203
    majcos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭majcos


    niallo27 wrote: »
    See I read your version and I read the version from this article, ambulances were parked outside for one evening, they opened new beds with extra staff and it was over in a few hours. They actually apologogised for the situation as it was their fault they did not have cover, but of course this does not go with the narrative of a disaster zone.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40204493.html
    The pressure was not over in a few hours. The ambulance queue was sorted but the internal pressure on hospitals is still ridiculously high. That particular ward has remained open this week through emergency appeals for staffing throughout the week. Extremely difficult I would imagine to keep an extra ward open when staffing levels are at an all time low. As of tonight Letterkenny has 120 confirmed Covid cases in a hospital with a bed capacity of around 330 including maternity and paediatrics. There are 6 confirmed Covid cases in ICU even though their ICU capacity is usually 5. I would presume they are still under huge pressure.

    They apologized to patients that were delayed. They did not apologise for not having cover for a ward that was not even open. The hospital cannot be held to blame for an unprecedented situation and high demand for beds and the sustained high level of admissions.


  • #7204
    majcos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭majcos


    Always_Running wrote: »
    That's unexpected drop.
    Always more discharges on a Monday.


  • #7205
    poppers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 677 ✭✭✭poppers


    Kunta Kinte wrote: »
    And yet some are claiming that that figure is 50 percent. Granted most who do are anti restrictions but which figure is more accurate in your opinion?

    https://mobile.twitter.com/RiochtConor2/status/1350445195477790726

    Somd good work from this chap went through the admission & discharg figures posted on the hub and it works out at 53% aquired in hospital

    Sure paul reid said it was at 50% in one of his interviews last week


  • #7206
    majcos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭majcos


    niallo27 wrote: »
    Thanks for the great replies lads, good to have decent back and forth. Do you feel that too much priority is been given to covid at the expense of other health services.
    Sadly until Covid is under control, other services will continue to suffer. A huge opportunity cost of treatment for other conditions but an acute illness will always take immediate precedence. The need to protect hospitals so that other services and care could be delivered was always acknowledged as part of the reason for restrictions. Some are saying that hospitals are not yet overwhelmed but they already are overwhelmed from a certain view if they have to curtail other services as they have done.


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  • #7207
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    Bubbaclaus wrote: »
    Hopefully a lot of discharges tomorrow to bring numbers down, discharges tend to decrease over the weekends normally with a clear out on the Monday.

    As anticipated:

    https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1351306576058003463?s=19


  • #7208
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,627 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    poppers wrote: »
    https://mobile.twitter.com/RiochtConor2/status/1350445195477790726

    Somd good work from this chap went through the admission & discharg figures posted on the hub and it works out at 53% aquired in hospital

    Sure paul reid said it was at 50% in one of his interviews last week

    That poster has had many different links to that data.

    Keep’s ignoring it and asking for it again


  • #7209
    normanoffside
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,231 ✭✭✭✭normanoffside


    Kunta Kinte wrote: »
    And yet some are claiming that that figure is 50 percent. Granted most who do are anti restrictions but which figure is more accurate in your opinion?

    Colm Henry of NPHET and the HSE said that a few days ago. Don't you trust him?

    https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0114/1189739-vaccine-numbers/


  • #7210
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    poppers wrote: »
    https://mobile.twitter.com/RiochtConor2/status/1350445195477790726

    Somd good work from this chap went through the admission & discharg figures posted on the hub and it works out at 53% aquired in hospital

    Sure paul reid said it was at 50% in one of his interviews last week

    I believe the quote was upto 50%. 53% would be a good figure for hospital detected infection (which differs from hospital acquired).

    That includes people admitted with covid who didn't have a test before admission. It also includes people admitted with something other than covid who test positive on admission or within a few days of admission (at which time its more likely they brought covid into the hospital)


  • #7211
    Ficheall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,038 ✭✭✭Ficheall


    As of yesterday, we've the fifth highest weekly new cases per capita in the world, and we've the twelfth highest number of people vaccinated per capita, according to Johns Hopkins.


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  • #7212
    majcos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭majcos


    Kunta Kinte wrote: »
    And yet some are claiming that that figure is 50 percent. Granted most who do are anti restrictions but which figure is more accurate in your opinion?
    It may be higher if just look at the figures for the last few weeks although it takes some investigation to designate each individual infection diagnosed in a hospital as as community versus hospital acquired so I think there is a lag in official reporting of this data. Overall since beginning it is closer to 20%.

    Higher levels of transmission in community means there is higher possibility of staff being infected and bringing it in to work. Higher number of patients in hospitals also gives more opportunities for cross infection between patients and from patients to staff and staff to patients. More hours that staff work leads to more exhaustion and more mistakes. Less experienced staff are being drafted in too or working in an environment that they are less familiar with so that adds to the problem.

    On the other side, where there are entire wards with patients who have confirmed prior or at time of admission, at least staff there do not have to worry as much about carrying it from patient to patient or patients transmitting it to each other as long as the staff stay in the same area although they still have to worry about spread to each other.


  • #7213
    Away With The Fairies
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    Today's numbers are good (or better than what it was) but don't want to think positive yet. Are they starting back testing close contacts yet? They really should be at this stage.


  • #7214
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    Away With The Fairies wrote: »
    Today's numbers are good (or better than what it was) but don't want to think positive yet. Are they starting back testing close contacts yet? They really should be at this stage.

    They said in the briefing that they will look at resuming close contacts when the cases are below 2,000. With 2.5 average contacts per case that's an extra 5,000 swabs a day.

    If max capacity is circa 29k swabs a day there they would be out of testing capacity 3 of the last 6 days.


  • #7215
    Analogs daughter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15 ✭Analogs daughter


    jmm111 wrote: »
    Interesting article from RTE website - 200 people in ICU, 200 others getting respiratory support
    As 200 people with Covid-19 received treatment in intensive care units around the country today, at least another 200 others were getting high levels of respiratory support outside ICUs.

    What treatments are the other 1500+ people in hospital with COVID getting?

    A large proportion of them are absolutely fine but are unable to self isolate at home due to them needing assisted care or home help.


  • #7216
    marno21
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,656 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Close contact testing will resume when we drop below 2,000 daily cases according to the HSE.

    Tuesdays are normally where we hit new lows so I'd imagine we're looking at under 2k cases tomorrow evening. 1,910 swabs today was the first time below 2,000 +ve swabs in 2021.


  • #7217
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,385 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Anyone know where they got Oisin Smith from?

    Useless.

    (Watching Tonight on Virgin Media)


  • #7218
    majcos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭majcos


    niallo27 wrote: »
    Where did you get these figures if you mind me asking, nobody has been able to find them anywhere.
    Sorry I do not have a public reference for this statistic at the moment. I can point you to publicly available UK figures which are similar to here. Defining what is community acquired and what is hospital acquired is not always easy. The patients who are diagnosed prior to admission and then present with symptoms and those who test positive at the point of admission are easy to categorize but each day after that it becomes more difficult.

    https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/the-ongoing-problem-of-hospital-acquired-infections-across-the-uk/

    https://fullfact.org/health/coronavirus-transmission-hospitals/


  • #7219
    Analogs daughter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15 ✭Analogs daughter


    majcos wrote: »
    About 80% are admitted directly due to Covid. Around 20% acquired it in hospital but many of these patients are also symptomatic due to Covid and at high risk from it. Post-operative patients who acquire Covid have been found to have a high post-operative mortality rate and a high admission rate to ICUs.

    For the small percentage that are asymptomatic but have Covid detected, this still adds strain to the operation of the hospital as they still need to be isolated and pose a risk to staff and other patients. If asymptomatic from Covid, will be discharged as soon as possible.

    In a major hospital in the west, the current ratio is 80-90% of those with Covid are hospital acquired infections. Big difference to the 20% you have quoted.


  • #7220
    monkeybutter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,145 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    Isn't one of the problems with the ICU numbers how long a covid patient takes the bed for also versus the average stay in ICU?


  • #7221
    ginoginelli
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭ginoginelli


    tobefrank321 wrote: »
    Minister on Tonight Show trying to imply its racism to ask people coming from Brazil to quarantine.

    Also doesn't understand all cases originally stemmed from foreign travel.

    Despicable patronizing politic playing. Even more egregious than Donnellys ****ty trampoline analogy. These wheeler dealers will stoop to any low to deflect blame on their disatouros handling of travel.

    What an absolute wheezle.


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  • #7222
    KrustyUCC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,077 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    Analogs daughter wrote: »
    In a major hospital in the west, the current ratio is 80-90% of those with Covid are hospital acquired infections. Big difference to the 20% you have quoted.

    Jeez that sounds bad


  • #7223
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,627 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    majcos wrote: »
    Sorry I do not have a public reference for this statistic at the moment. I can point you to publicly available UK figures which are similar to here. Defining what is community acquired and what is hospital acquired is not always easy. The patients who are diagnosed prior to admission and then present with symptoms and those who test positive at the point of admission are easy to categorize but each day after that it becomes more difficult.

    https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/the-ongoing-problem-of-hospital-acquired-infections-across-the-uk/

    https://fullfact.org/health/coronavirus-transmission-hospitals/

    What we do know is what Paul Reid and the HSE have said.

    It’s upwards of 50% in Ireland.


  • #7224
    majcos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭majcos


    jmm111 wrote: »
    Interesting article from RTE website - 200 people in ICU, 200 others getting respiratory support
    As 200 people with Covid-19 received treatment in intensive care units around the country today, at least another 200 others were getting high levels of respiratory support outside ICUs.

    What treatments are the other 1500+ people in hospital with COVID getting?
    The high level of oxygen support is likely referring to non invasive ventilation or CPAP which is a tight fitting mask delivering air under pressure. That person is still breathing themselves with assistance. It is one step away from ventilation where a tube is placed down the throat and in to the lungs and a machine breathes for the patient.

    Many others are on oxygen masks where they are themselves breathing in a higher concentration of oxygen but without the pressure of non invasive ventilation or nasal oxygen supplies which deliver a lower level of oxygen. Some may not need any oxygen but require intravenous antibiotics for secondary bacterial pneumonia or require IV fluids for dehydration. Some are in hospital because Covid has caused a delirium even though lungs are not that affected.


  • #7225
    majcos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭majcos


    poppers wrote: »
    https://mobile.twitter.com/RiochtConor2/status/1350445195477790726

    Somd good work from this chap went through the admission & discharg figures posted on the hub and it works out at 53% aquired in hospital

    Sure paul reid said it was at 50% in one of his interviews last week
    Posted this last night in response to his calculations...
    majcos wrote: »
    This is not an accurate way of calculating hospital acquired infections. It is over-simplistic for many reasons. Patients are testing positive in day 2, 3, 4 etc of admission. Some of those Covid detected cases already have confirmed household or nursing home or residential unit contacts prior to admission. Those cases would not be counted as a confirmed case on admission as initial swab did not detect Covid but were already incubating it as a close contact and then tested positive later in admission. Those cases are not hospital-acquired.

    Cases that occur day one and day two after admission are generally considered community acquired. Cases that occur between day three and day six are investigated by infection control to determine if there is a link with another Covid case (patient or staff) within the hospital system. Particulars of swab results are also assessed and clinical course of each case tracked along with repeat swabs in some cases to see if CT values (indicative of viral load) are rising or falling.

    Hospital acquired infections are most definitely a problem but if a contagious disease is circulating at a high incidence in the community, it will be circulating at a high incidence among staff.


  • #7226
    majcos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭majcos


    Analogs daughter wrote: »
    A large proportion of them are absolutely fine but are unable to self isolate at home due to them needing assisted care or home help.
    Home help is being delivered to patients with Covid in many cases by home carers wearing PPE if that person does not otherwise need to be in hospital.


  • #7227
    majcos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭majcos


    Analogs daughter wrote: »
    In a major hospital in the west, the current ratio is 80-90% of those with Covid are hospital acquired infections. Big difference to the 20% you have quoted.
    One hospital (such as Castlebar) may have a particular issue at a particular point in time due to a major outbreak but that is not representative of statistics across the whole healthcare system over the last eleven months.


  • #7228
    lucernarian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,236 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    majcos wrote: »
    Posted this last night in response to his calculations...
    Arguably it's hard to get such granular answers when community transmission was so high recently. There's a good reason why we went from a containment strategy to a mitigation strategy. The calculations and contract tracing aren't so useful for "overall case numbers" when the likelihood for double counting exists to such an extent.


  • #7229
    Analogs daughter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15 ✭Analogs daughter


    majcos wrote: »
    Home help is being delivered to patients with Covid in many cases by home carers wearing PPE if that person does not otherwise need to be in hospital.

    Define "many cases" and/or examples of this? I have seen first hand patients remain in hospital completely asymptomatic but family unable/unwilling to take them.


  • #7230
    majcos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭majcos


    monkeybutter wrote: »
    Isn't one of the problems with the ICU numbers how long a covid patient takes the bed for also versus the average stay in ICU?
    Yes. This is a major issue. Average length of stay in ICU due to Covid is much longer than that due to influenza. 7 day stay for influenza cases admitted to ICU in 2018/2019 versus 17.7 day stay in ICU for Covid with another two to three weeks on a general ward before and after ICU admission.


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  • #7231
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    majcos wrote: »
    Yes. This is a major issue. Average length of stay in ICU due to Covid is much longer than that due to influenza. 7 day stay for influenza cases admitted to ICU in 2018/2019 versus 17.7 day stay in ICU for Covid with another two to three weeks on a general ward before and after ICU admission.

    Do people wearing the CPAP masks have them on 24/7?

    Sorry if its a stupid question


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