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Covid 19 Part XXXI-187,554 ROI (2,970 deaths) 100,319 NI (1,730 deaths)(24/01)Read OP

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Comments

  • #6842
    Gruffalux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Gruffalux


    mcburns07 wrote: »
    It's fairly unbelievable how someone could get it from presumably spending less than a couple of mins near with asymptomatic with both wearing masks and at least some level of social distancing going on.

    Either very very unlucky or more likely being dishonest about what they have done in the past few weeks.

    Aerosols. It is obvious and has been obvious since the beginning. There has been aerosol transmission always with Covid. It is just not talked about because no one wants people cracking open neighbour's heads to feast on the goo.


  • #6843
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Christy42 wrote: »
    Well that makes sense. It is going to be rough to have a hoard of separate reserve lists and ensuring they don't have issues with people who can get there or double booked etc.

    Though I guess it means anyone to do with those hospitals have been vaccined which is good news.

    Maybe we need a centralised list of people who know they are "on call" and should be ready to drop what they are doing and rush in if required but given the small numbers that may be more admin than actual benefit.
    I don't think we need to do that now as we are near the end of that group but some more judicious choices on the remaining order of vaccinations are essential.


  • #6844
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    KrustyUCC wrote: »
    Covid restrictions could extend until May unless numbers decrease, Nphet member warns

    Ireland could be facing public health restrictions until April or May if people do not curtail their movements, a leading medic and member of Nphet has warned.

    Covid adviser to the Irish College of General Practitioners, Dr Mary Favier, has warned that if people do not curtail their movements then restrictions will have to be kept in place until April or May.

    “We are not doing enough, there is still too much movement,” she told Newstalk Breakfast.

    “We have to reduce contacts.”

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40208990.html

    I don't think threatening those that are abiding by restrictions with restrictions into April or May is particularly helpful

    In my own case i'd love to know how you can reduce contacts below the 0 outside my household bubble as it is

    Numbers are decreasing though, its a bit of a redundant statement.


  • #6845
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    DraftDodger wrote: »
    2023 now in hospital with Covid which isn't great. Hopefully we see a reduction soon but it only seems to be climbing
    Disappointing discharge numbers over the weekend. They're usually low on weekends, but I was expecting higher.

    This should be the peak of it though. We should hopefully see up to 150 discharges today.


  • #6846
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    KrustyUCC wrote: »
    Covid restrictions could extend until May unless numbers decrease, Nphet member warns

    Ireland could be facing public health restrictions until April or May if people do not curtail their movements, a leading medic and member of Nphet has warned.

    Covid adviser to the Irish College of General Practitioners, Dr Mary Favier, has warned that if people do not curtail their movements then restrictions will have to be kept in place until April or May.

    “We are not doing enough, there is still too much movement,” she told Newstalk Breakfast.

    “We have to reduce contacts.”

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40208990.html

    I don't think threatening those that are abiding by restrictions with restrictions into April or May is particularly helpful

    In my own case i'd love to know how you can reduce contacts below the 0 outside my household bubble as it is

    It's just pushing the message all day every day. We still have huge numbers. Those who comply are not the target.


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  • #6847
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,754 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    KrustyUCC wrote: »
    Covid restrictions could extend until May unless numbers decrease, Nphet member warns

    Ireland could be facing public health restrictions until April or May if people do not curtail their movements, a leading medic and member of Nphet has warned.

    Covid adviser to the Irish College of General Practitioners, Dr Mary Favier, has warned that if people do not curtail their movements then restrictions will have to be kept in place until April or May.

    “We are not doing enough, there is still too much movement,” she told Newstalk Breakfast.

    “We have to reduce contacts.”

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40208990.html

    I don't think threatening those that are abiding by restrictions with restrictions into April or May is particularly helpful

    In my own case i'd love to know how you can reduce contacts below the 0 outside my household bubble as it is

    Maybe she could be less patronizing and have the courage to request that the government review the essential workers list (which covers most workers in Ireland)..

    It's easy to be general

    But the vast majority of people are not doing anything outside of work


  • #6848
    Christy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,106 ✭✭✭Christy42


    is_that_so wrote: »
    I don't think we need to do that now as we are near the end of that group but some more judicious choices on the remaining order of vaccinations are essential.

    Well then you need a list for the next group or you will just end up with tired and busy staff needing to use up a load of doses again.

    Either you preplan this out and accept that as a cost or you end up with a small proportion of the vaccine being given out suboptimally.


  • #6849
    hopgirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 152 ✭✭hopgirl


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Dont forget that lots of people dont know they have it...

    I know that but these are people who have tested positive and know they have it.


  • #6850
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Loafing Oaf wrote: »
    https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/irish-gps-fighting-third-wave-covid-on-the-front-line-of-the-world-s-worst-outbreak-1.4458430?mode=amp



    Should point out that this is from a GP in Belmullet, which seems to be global covid central ATM...

    I live in Belmullet area and heard the story of the women in the porch. Must be some size of a house if you can sit in a porch 4-5 meters away from the person at the door.

    I think there has to be contact made or a few seconds in close proximity in these cases. People don't want to admit there mistakes. Can easily forget for a short time.


  • #6851
    aziz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 755 ✭✭✭aziz


    Bit of a school teacher mentality,” if the bold boys don’t behave,the whole class is kept back”


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  • #6852
    KrustyUCC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,077 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    is_that_so wrote: »
    It's just pushing the message all day every day. We still have huge numbers. Those who comply are not the target.

    True in one sense but it's also a good way to lose people who are complying


  • #6853
    duffman13
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,247 ✭✭✭duffman13


    titan18 wrote: »
    I know a private hospital in Cork that has got it so some definitely have anyway. They got theirs around the 7th/8th of January so I'd assume most of the larger private hospitals would have got theirs by now.

    Was that Bon Secours? They got theirs from a public hospital with excess supply. As of last Wednesday, the HSE hadn't supplied private hospitals directly as far as I'm aware. Open to correction but from what I've heard its been haphazard supplying private hospitals. This in itself will cause issues when/if they start taking large volumes of public covid patients


  • #6854
    mcburns07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭mcburns07


    Gruffalux wrote: »
    Aerosols. It is obvious and has been obvious since the beginning. There has been aerosol transmission always with Covid. It is just not talked about because no one wants people cracking open neighbour's heads to feast on the goo.

    I get that but given the conditions below (Making assumptions that they were both following guidelines) I find it incredible that someone could catch it in a supermarket.

    1. Person A was asymptomatic
    2. Social distancing
    3. Minimal time spent near each other, in a supermarket you're talking max 5 mins at a checkout? There's nowhere else you'd spend more than 30 seconds next to the same person
    4. Both wearing masks


  • #6855
    hopgirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 152 ✭✭hopgirl


    Akabusi wrote: »
    Yes likely people who are asymptomatic. How are they to know.

    They have tested positive and know they shouldn't be in shops, these are the people I am on about not people that don't know they have it.


  • #6856
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,523 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Vicxas wrote: »
    https://www.thejournal.ie/coombe-vaccinations-stephen-donnelly-5328089-Jan2021/

    Knew stuff like this would happen

    The journal is such a poor quality publication. What they failed to mention is both 'kids' are adults, one works in the hospital and one works there part time.


  • #6857
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Christy42 wrote: »
    Well then you need a list for the next group or you will just end up with tired and busy staff needing to use up a load of doses again.

    Either you preplan this out and accept that as a cost or you end up with a small proportion of the vaccine being given out suboptimally.
    Well, that's the over 70s and that's down to GPs. There unquestionably needs to be a daily standby list as we get into mass vaccinations to minimise it.


  • #6858
    duffman13
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,247 ✭✭✭duffman13


    Gruffalux wrote: »
    I dunno - it just does not get me riled up. 0.01% of vaccines administered that day were given out in the end to family of hospital employees as they had to be used. They are hardly going to canvas on the local street when there are leftovers. If it was 5% or 1% I might get a bit flustered. But 16 out of 1100 doses just does not push my buttons. I would certainly not like to see highly qualified professionals lose their job or have to squirm overly much to satisfy some kind of cancel culture.
    Ps I know no one in these hospitals. And me or my family are not due in line till early summer of 2022. Which suits me fine as I can monitor the human trials :)

    Edited later with correct maths. Ummm

    I agree. Given that 9 were over 70 too, I've zero issue with that element of it. I'm sure a lot of doctors and nurses have minimal contact with family particularly older people during the last 10 months so if they can get there family vaccinated then go for it if its a dose going to waste otherwise.

    Lots of reports in America of pharmacists offering vaccines at the end of a day to anyone walking by to save wastage too. Not a single dose should be wasted imo


  • #6859
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    KrustyUCC wrote: »
    True in one sense but it's also a good way to lose people who are complying
    Only if you force yourself to read it!


  • #6860
    titan18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,052 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    duffman13 wrote: »
    Was that Bon Secours? They got theirs from a public hospital with excess supply. As of last Wednesday, the HSE hadn't supplied private hospitals directly as far as I'm aware. Open to correction but from what I've heard its been haphazard supplying private hospitals. This in itself will cause issues when/if they start taking large volumes of public covid patients

    It was the Bons, yup. Dad works there so he got vaccinated last Sunday so had assumed others had got theirs too


  • #6861
    vienne86
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,078 ✭✭✭✭vienne86


    KrustyUCC wrote: »
    Covid restrictions could extend until May unless numbers decrease, Nphet member warns

    Ireland could be facing public health restrictions until April or May if people do not curtail their movements, a leading medic and member of Nphet has warned.

    Covid adviser to the Irish College of General Practitioners, Dr Mary Favier, has warned that if people do not curtail their movements then restrictions will have to be kept in place until April or May.

    “We are not doing enough, there is still too much movement,” she told Newstalk Breakfast.

    “We have to reduce contacts.”

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40208990.html

    I don't think threatening those that are abiding by restrictions with restrictions into April or May is particularly helpful

    In my own case i'd love to know how you can reduce contacts below the 0 outside my household bubble as it is

    Me too - and instead of meeting my bubble every day for a walk, we now only meet to share shopping from one of us going to the supermarket to shop for both - at most once a week. And I feel I'm being made to feel guilty about that now!


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  • #6862
    techdiver
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,544 ✭✭✭techdiver


    KrustyUCC wrote: »
    Covid restrictions could extend until May unless numbers decrease, Nphet member warns

    Ireland could be facing public health restrictions until April or May if people do not curtail their movements, a leading medic and member of Nphet has warned.

    Covid adviser to the Irish College of General Practitioners, Dr Mary Favier, has warned that if people do not curtail their movements then restrictions will have to be kept in place until April or May.

    “We are not doing enough, there is still too much movement,” she told Newstalk Breakfast.

    “We have to reduce contacts.”

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40208990.html

    I don't think threatening those that are abiding by restrictions with restrictions into April or May is particularly helpful

    In my own case i'd love to know how you can reduce contacts below the 0 outside my household bubble as it is

    What does she mean by too much movement? What could people possibly be doing apart from essential shopping, exercise outside and going to work? If it's house parties etc then no end of this type of messaging is going to get through to that cohort. These vague statement do nothing to help at all and just alienate those who are doing their best.

    There are plenty of areas the government can tackle. Work places is one. Companies have had almost a year to set up working from home. At this stage any company that hasn't then that's on them. All offices and places of work where having staff on site is not necessary (and no, just because a manager doesn't like it doesn't count) should be closed. Only absolutory essential workers should go to work. The softly softly approach to employers ignoring the working from home order has failed.


  • #6863
    Wombatman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,349 ✭✭✭Wombatman


    GreeBo wrote: »
    This is what I was saying earlier, it was either the bin or into someones arm.

    Those who think that not a single group 3 should get them before all group 1 & 2 dont understand logistics, the only way to achieve this would be a single vaccination centre.

    They don't just whip a batch of the vaccine a shout 'come and get it' and hope there are people around so it doesn't end up in the bin.

    Everything around administering the vaccine is planned beforehand from selecting the room, to who will be administering to, completion of certs and documents etc.

    Anyone who believes that, the family members getting the vaccine, wasn't part of the local plan, is ultra naive. You just have to ask yourself why the family members were at the vaccination site to understand that it was all preplanned.

    I wouldn't be surprised if some genius makes the argument that these family members were heroes for preventing vaccine waste.

    This is good old fashioned Irish nepotisms at it finest. The auld 'it's not what you know it's who you know.' I for one find it utterly disgusting when potentially life saving vaccinations are at stake.

    Even if you don't buy into the obvious nepotism, the alternative is wholly incompetent rollout planning.


  • #6864
    titan18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,052 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    lawred2 wrote: »
    Maybe she could be less patronizing and have the courage to request that the government review the essential workers list (which covers most workers in Ireland)..

    It's easy to be general

    But the vast majority of people are not doing anything outside of work

    Based off my instagram and Facebook feed, there's plenty still doing stuff outside of work and breaking the 5k restrictions to do so. Most aren't but there's the same few clowns who went wild at Christmas continuing to break rules now from what I've seen amongst people I know.


  • #6865
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,754 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    titan18 wrote: »
    Based off my instagram and Facebook feed, there's plenty still doing stuff outside of work and breaking the 5k restrictions to do so. Most aren't but there's the same few clowns who went wild at Christmas continuing to break rules now from what I've seen amongst people I know.

    no amount of "we are all doing X too much" is going to get through to the selfish minority

    time for such voices to get specific about who is doing X too much because the rest of us aren't


  • #6866
    Gruffalux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Gruffalux


    mcburns07 wrote: »
    I get that but given the conditions below (Making assumptions that they were both following guidelines) I find it incredible that someone could catch it in a supermarket.

    1. Person A was asymptomatic
    2. Social distancing
    3. Minimal time spent near each other, in a supermarket you're talking max 5 mins at a checkout? There's nowhere else you'd spend more than 30 seconds next to the same person
    4. Both wearing masks

    Lookit, Im basically a housewife epidemiologist, :D , but here goes..
    1. Asymptomatic makes no difference with aerosols. Breathing is the only necessary precondition!
    2. Social distancing has always been a pragmatic figure chosen to enable normalish life to function. It may serve well enough re most droplets but aerosols float further.
    3. Time re aerosol suspension in air is longer.
    4. Masks are effective to a certain extent. They should be used. Especially to lower viral load. (In my opinion). Cloth masks unless used with filters are less effective than the "medical" masks of non woven material. If you want really good aerosol protection then FFP2 or FFP3 would be required. These are more expensive and are generally used by medical personnel who have to be in very close contact for long times with patients. Notice they do not wear snazzy floral fashion masks.
    5. Feast on the goo!


  • #6867
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Gruffalux wrote: »
    Lookit, Im basically a housewife epidemiologist, :D , but here goes..
    1. Asymptomatic makes no difference with aerosols. Breathing is the only necessary precondition!
    2. Social distancing has always been a pragmatic figure chosen to enable normalish life to function. It may serve well enough re most droplets but aerosols float further.
    3. Time re aerosol suspension in air is longer.
    4. Masks are effective to a certain extent. They should be used. Especially to lower viral load. (In my opinion). Cloth masks unless used with filters are less effective than the "medical" masks of non woven material. If you want really good aerosol protection then FFP2 or FFP3 would be required. These are more expensive and are generally used by medical personnel who have to be in very close contact for long times with patients. Notice they do not wear snazzy floral fashion masks.
    5. Feast on the goo!

    Asymptomatic does make a difference re aerosols. The viral load in the individual will be far lower on average, meaning fewer droplets will be expelled in breathing.


  • #6868
    majcos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭majcos


    The line about not letting doses of vaccines going to waste is being used in some situations as an easy excuse for very poor prioritisation of staff within healthcare institutions and between different sites.

    The Coombe has stated that it had actively sought out frontline workers to vaccinate before using the last few doses on family members as it have an unexpected extra 120 doses of the vaccine. If this was truly the situation, it was better not to waste doses although the optics of using it for family members is poor. There are, however, numerous accounts of poor prioritisation.

    Staff in private radiology services who have very brief patient contact with patients who are not suspected to have Covid were vaccinated before nurses and health care assistants in public hospitals who spend hours in rooms and face to face in unavoidable close proximity with confirmed Covid cases. Staff in The Hermitage and Bons Secours were also vaccinated before staff in public hospitals directly dealing with confirmed and suspected Covid patients even though those hospitals are/were not providing acute Covid care. Within the public hospitals themselves, staff in administrative roles with no patient contact based in separate buildings and staff on maternity leave have been vaccinated before staff who are metres away from the vaccination centres dealing with confirmed Covid patients.

    Prioritisation should have been based on amount of exposure and degree of risk to the individual. There were months to plan for an equitable distribution. A degree of flexibility is needed to avoid waste but that should not account for vaccinations given in settings where acute Covid care is/was not being given and for giving vaccines to non frontline staff when there were available frontline staff in the same premises. The HSE do not seem to be alone in being criticised for how vaccines are being distributed. There are similar stories of a chaotic rollout in the UK.


  • #6869
    carq
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 873 ✭✭✭carq


    As far as supermarkets I would like to see some kind of enforcement / covid officer who would go around the supermarket making sure masks are worn and worn correctly.

    I would shop there as first preference.

    I saw at the weekend in my local supermarket a man take off his mask to have a telephone conversation.
    During wave 2 I saw 2 people take of their masks to have a face to face chat.

    Society needs to be protected from the idiots.


  • #6870
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    carq wrote: »
    As far as supermarkets I would like to see some kind of enforcement / covid officer who would go around the supermarket making sure masks are worn and worn correctly.

    I would shop there as first preference.

    I saw at the weekend in my local supermarket a man take off his mask to have a telephone conversation.
    During wave 2 I saw 2 people take of their masks to have a face to face chat.

    Society needs to be protected from the idiots.

    Pedant mode - this is still wave 2 - we just partially suppressed it when it started to emerge in October unlike our neighbours


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  • #6871
    Neamhshuntasach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,183 ✭✭✭Neamhshuntasach


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    Two things.

    Sometimes a vial will make 5 doses. Usually it will make 6m sometimes it will make 7.

    Theres storage problems in the fridge too. I think you have 12 hours to dilute the vaccine after its stored in a fridge then a further 12 hours to administer the vaccine.

    Some hospitals are taking the vaccine into a fridge on delivery which means they are time limited.

    It's not even 12 hours after dilution. Pfizer recommend 6 hours after dilution otherwise it should be discarded. But after thawing, it can be stored in a fridge for up to 5 days. There is some flexibility and planning will need to get better to avoid waste or stories like this.


This discussion has been closed.
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