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Covid 19 Part XXXI-187,554 ROI (2,970 deaths) 100,319 NI (1,730 deaths)(24/01)Read OP

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Comments

  • #6632
    Datacore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 178 ✭✭Datacore


    We could have made countries safe, stopped transmission and gradually created entirely safe travel bubbles between COVID free zones in Europe.

    We didn’t - instead we have attempted to live with a virus that you can’t live with. It’s absolutely nonsense to suggest we can manage this in any kind of reasonable way.

    The NZ and Australian approaches were sensible adaptations of that was done in many Asian countries and they’ve broadly worked.

    The European, British and American approach has been to let it spread because it wasn’t possible to think beyond what we were doing and because key drivers of policy are utter morons who went into COVID denial mode : Trump and Johnson but others too and there’s been a mass mobilisation of all sorts of crackpot conspiracy theorists online.

    You’ve ended up with a response that’s been an attempt to keep things business as usual, mixed with contrarianism, exceptionalism and utterly bonkers politicisation and denial of reality.

    It’s a crisis that could well end the West economically.


  • #6633
    take everything
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,847 ✭✭✭take everything


    theballz wrote: »
    If it was simple you’d know the answer.

    That's an enigmatic oracle-like reply.

    So it's complex then.

    What then are the complexities of a close contact getting tested and going back to work if Covid-free.


  • #6634
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Datacore wrote: »
    We could have made countries safe, stopped transmission and gradually created entirely safe travel bubbles between COVID free zones in Europe.

    We didn’t - instead we have attempted to live with a virus that you can’t live with. It’s absolutely nonsense to suggest we can manage this in any kind of reasonable way.

    The NZ and Australian approaches were sensible adaptations of that was done in many Asian countries and they’ve broadly worked.

    The European, British and American approach has been to let it spread because it wasn’t possible to think beyond what we were doing and because key drivers of policy are utter morons who went into COVID denial mode : Trump and Johnson but others too and there’s been a mass mobilisation of all sorts of crackpot conspiracy theorists online.

    It’s a crisis that could well end the West economically.
    Australia currently have 37,000 citizens abroad wanting to go home, NZ also has a waiting list. This will be an economic blip, the money copiers just keep on churning through this.


  • #6635
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    take everything wrote: »
    That's an enigmatic oracle-like reply.

    So it's complex then.

    What then are the complexities of a close contact getting tested and going back to work if Covid-free.

    You don't show as a positive test straight away.

    On average you show up as a positive 7 days (it might be 5) after being a close contact. Sometimes it might take 14 days to show up as a positive.

    A negative test is not worth much.


  • #6636
    Datacore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 178 ✭✭Datacore


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Australia currently have 37,000 citizens abroad wanting to go home, NZ also has a waiting list.

    And they’re prepared to deal with that slowly and carefully, rather than risk infection of 31 million Australian and New Zealanders and destroying their respective economies.

    You can fully test a hundred thousand people here in a week. Inconveniencing people as they need to test and quarantine isn’t that big a deal in comparison.

    This isn’t an ideal situation. But we need to find least worst approaches to dealing with it. We can’t just continue to do what we are doing.

    It means changing things, hopefully temporarily, but they need to happen as are just can’t cope with what’s going on here now. It needs to be contained.


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  • #6637
    WoollyRedHat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭WoollyRedHat


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Seeding doesn't spread it, behaviours do. There was a study way way back, which suggested that stopping passenger air travel only delayed it by about 3 weeks. It will get in anyway. We are only now in a position to test in a way we couldn't most of last year.

    Seeding by it's definition is to develop. I'm not talking about shutting it out completely, it's about mitigation similar to Australia etc. Search for the Swiss Cheese model.


  • #6638
    WoollyRedHat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,462 ✭✭✭✭WoollyRedHat


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Australia currently have 37,000 citizens abroad wanting to go home, NZ also has a waiting list. This will be an economic blip, the money copiers just keep on churning through this.

    Because other countries are consumed with the virus.


  • #6639
    JP Liz V1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 91,178 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1


    https://twitter.com/IrishTimesSport/status/1350827354336026624
    https://forumofgames.com/




  • #6640
    Gruffalux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Gruffalux


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Australia currently have 37,000 citizens abroad wanting to go home, NZ also has a waiting list. This will be an economic blip, the money copiers just keep on churning through this.

    That's about our recorded number of positive cases for the past week or so. In other words, so what? If some have to stay out for a while to protect the majority, so what.

    It is not just the fact of recording cases as cases per se, in my opinion there will arrive an issue regarding longer term morbidity, loss of earnings, loss of productivity, depression etc in an as yet not wholly known portion of those cases that I think will not really begin to come to public attention properly until some time has passed. Even 5% of 35000 is 1750 people. Even half that is 875 people. In the past 2 weeks. It's a lot of people who would not have suffered otherwise.


  • #6641
    RandomViewer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    tigger123 wrote: »
    What time do the numbers usually come out of a Sunday?

    Sunday figures are usually on the low side, Tuesday is the usual big one


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  • #6642
    Drumpot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot


    JP Liz V1 wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/IrishTimesSport/status/1350827354336026624

    I don’t get the logic of the Australian open going ahead. Seems really f*cking stupid just to make a statement globally. We were best in the world 6 weeks ago, seems like every country can be as retarded as the next and let their ego get the better of themselves.


  • #6643
    take everything
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,847 ✭✭✭take everything


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    You don't show as a positive test straight away.

    On average you show up as a positive 7 days (it might be 5) after being a close contact. Sometimes it might take 14 days to show up as a positive.

    A negative test is not worth much.

    Jaysus.
    I didn't think a negative test was so useless.

    Can anyone comment to on the sensitivity of the various tests.

    According to this poster it's pretty poor.

    It begs the question:
    Are these lads and their testing outfits (Rocdoc and the like) are making a mint from a ****ty test. Good old Ireland.


  • #6644
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    take everything wrote: »
    Jaysus.
    I didn't think a negative test was so useless.

    Can anyone comment to on the sensitivity of the various tests.

    According to this poster it's pretty poor.

    It begs the question:
    Are these lads and their testing outfits (Rocdoc and the like) are making a mint from a ****ty test. Good old Ireland.

    There's a reason when we're testing close contacts we used to tell them to isolate for a few days and then get a test and then stay isolating and get a second test.

    It just takes time for the virus to grow to to be detectable. It's not detectable while incubating. That's fairly common with viruses.

    The really sad thing is that the PCR test we use is the best around.

    9 months ago now I remember saying that we will be in this until we get a vaccine, a treatment, or a good test (that detects presymtomatic cases and doesn't need significant lab time).

    Sadly 9 months in and we have some iffy treatments, a few vaccines the whole world is struggling to produce and we haven't really improved on testing.


  • #6645
    Datacore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 178 ✭✭Datacore


    Honestly, if COVID-19 was a bovine illness and impacted farming, the department of agriculture would have closed the whole island and the north would have been fully on board.

    It would have been over in a month.


  • #6646
    ginoginelli
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭ginoginelli


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    There's a reason when we're testing close contacts we used to tell them to isolate for a few days and then get a test and then stay isolating and get a second test.

    It just takes time for the virus to grow to to be detectable. It's not detectable while incubating. That's fairly common with viruses.

    The really sad thing is that the PCR test we use is the best around.

    9 months ago now I remember saying that we will be in this until we get a vaccine, a treatment, or a good test (that detects presymtomatic cases and doesn't need significant lab time).

    Sadly 9 months in and we have some iffy treatments, a few vaccines the whole world is struggling to produce and we haven't really improved on testing.

    Apparently that moron in charge of travel has exempted the need for a pcr test 5 days after arrival after bringing in the pre travel 3 day mandatory test. Once again going against nephets advice. He is so ****ing thick. I'm not joking, he should be fired and criminal charges sought.


  • #6647
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    Datacore wrote: »
    Honestly, if COVID-19 was a bovine illness and impacted farming, the department of agriculture would have closed the whole island and the north would have been fully on board.

    It would have been over in a month.

    And we would have culled all the infected and their close contacts as a precaution.


  • #6648
    RandomViewer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Datacore wrote: »
    Honestly, if COVID-19 was a bovine illness and impacted farming, the department of agriculture would have closed the whole island and the north would have been fully on board.

    It would have been over in a month.

    Cows are worth more than people in the governments eyes


  • #6649
    Gruffalux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Gruffalux


    Bubbaclaus wrote: »
    And we would have culled all the infected and their close contacts as a precaution.

    Yeah, cos that's what the poster is suggesting.. :rolleyes:


  • #6650
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    Gruffalux wrote: »
    Yeah, cos that's what the poster is suggesting.. :rolleyes:

    He was comparing it to an illness in cows and how we deal with those scenarios. We deal with them with mass cullings. I was showing how ridiculous making that comparison is.


  • #6651
    Purple Papillon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 36 ✭Purple Papillon


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/uk-and-brazil-passengers-allowed-in-to-ireland-without-covid-test-results-jvcszjv9n


    Jes, this is something else and it's a new low from the government.

    The government came out and said incoming arrivals will need a negative covid test before coming, and then they go against it.

    The government prefers to lockdown millions of people and close thousands of businesses in order in order for people to restrict their movements to surpress the virus but then they go ahead and dump on a policy that they introduced for arrivals.

    My patience with compliance is running very thin.


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  • #6652
    Gruffalux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Gruffalux


    Bubbaclaus wrote: »
    He was comparing it to an illness in cows and how we deal with those scenarios. We deal with them with mass cullings. I was showing how ridiculous making that comparison is.

    There are animal disease mitigation measures besides culling that countries put into effect on cross-border bases. I am sure the poster was intending to mean that quick wide-ranging political decisions have been taken historically about animal diseases which were very comprehensive and in some cases appear more comprehensive than re Covid eg border migration of stock.


  • #6653
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    DOCARCH wrote: »
    All good, thanks for asking! We all finished our isolation last Monday.

    None of our symptoms (all four of us) were 'classic' Covid symptoms that would automatically trigger a Covid test....no temperatures or coughs! GP just sent us for testing because I have asthma.

    I spoke to a number of people last week (....on the phone....) who said they felt a bit under the weather, a few aches and pains, etc., but, as they did not have a temperature, it couldn't be Covid!

    Our symptoms and from what I hear from others would make me worry that Covid is much more rampant than testing is showing up at the moment!

    Hope you don't mind me asking - but did the Covid cause any issues with your Asthma?

    SIL had asthma and is fairly worried about catching it. Is there a higher risk with it?


  • #6654
    ginoginelli
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭ginoginelli


    Purple Papillon wrote: »
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/uk-and-brazil-passengers-allowed-in-to-ireland-without-covid-test-results-jvcszjv9n


    Jes, this is something else and it's a new low from the government.

    The government came out and said incoming arrivals will need a negative covid test before coming, and then they go against it.

    The government prefers to lockdown millions of people and close thousands of businesses in order in order for people to restrict their movements to surpress the virus but then they go ahead and dump on a policy that they introduced for arrivals.

    My patience with compliance is running very thin.

    Its criminal negligence. People are dying because of their ineptitude.


  • #6655
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Happydays2020 wrote: »
    what are your variables for your cost benefit analysis?

    Do you want to benchmark against the UK?

    Value of tax taken in vs what the lockdown costs in tax


  • #6656
    RandomViewer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Bubbaclaus wrote: »
    He was comparing it to an illness in cows and how we deal with those scenarios. We deal with them with mass cullings. I was showing how ridiculous making that comparison is.

    How many mass culls were there in Ireland when the large foot and mouth outbreak occurred in the UK, we guarded our borders and it didnt come here, neo-liberal thinking by an inadequate government put profit before people,


  • #6657
    Jim_Hodge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,140 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    RandomViewer wrote: »
    How many mass culls were there in Ireland when the large foot and mouth outbreak occurred in the UK, we guarded our borders and it didnt come here, neo-liberal thinking by an inadequate government put profit before people,

    It did get in. Where it got in we took out entire flocks - Cooley peninsula for instance. Covid was in before any body considered closing borders.


  • #6658
    caveat emptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    Happydays2020 wrote: »
    Quarantining with a backdoor up the North? Go away with your nonsense. ,
    And a country who depends on trade - locking up hauliers is your answer? Nonsense again.

    Serious straw man argument. I think the lady doth protest too much.

    Wonder what your personal circumstances are that you can't contemplate quarantine of international arrivals into the state.

    You do know that we closed the border with GB and the hauliers were allowed to come and go as they always were?

    If only we had dedicated people like you when we quarantined young mothers and babies all those years. You'd be a hero.


  • #6659
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,327 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    RandomViewer wrote: »
    How many mass culls were there in Ireland when the large foot and mouth outbreak occurred in the UK, we guarded our borders and it didnt come here, neo-liberal thinking by an inadequate government put profit before people,




    Culls are not that unusual for disease control in animal.
    When a herd gets a number of TB reactors, and it cannot be cleared relatively quickly, then the whole herd can be culled.
    When there is a reactor in a herd, all neighbouring herds can also be locked down. That places strict restrictions on moving animals and also on the frequency of testing.



    Corona would probably also be under much better control if the authorities could have used a bolt gun to eliminate carriers and potential carriers, but there would be a few downsides to such an approach. I think the downsides outweigh the positives


  • #6660
    Happydays2020
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭Happydays2020


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Value of tax taken in vs what the lockdown costs in tax

    Well tax revenues have held up pretty well particularly from the MNE sector which would be affected by closed borders. I feel very sorry for smaller businesses but the supports through PUP, EESS, CRSS etc are having a degree of effectiveness.


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  • #6661
    Gruffalux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Gruffalux


    If the argument against the very successful Australian approach has seriously descended to ''are you saying that we would have to cull flocks of people'', then I give up in the face of overwhelming bullish stupidity.


This discussion has been closed.
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