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Covid 19 Part XXXI-187,554 ROI (2,970 deaths) 100,319 NI (1,730 deaths)(24/01)Read OP

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  • #5912
    Drumpot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot


    DraftDodger wrote: »
    People are just plain thick tbh. There is a public house near me here in Mount Merrion and it has a take away coffee place outside and it was absolutely packed with people standing around in groups as i went past on the way home from work this morning. Having a coffee is absolutely essential in the middle of a pandemic obviously.

    I agree there are some misguided people but also A serious part of this problem is that the virus is invisible, it can be easy to let your guard down when for example the option of a coffee shop is there (we have one pub locally doing this too, I don’t go but a lot of people do) .

    I’ve had brain fart moments were I momentarily forget or have gotten myself into an uncomfortable situation by forgetting how easy and quickly we can catch this. It can be hard to consistently know and remember where to draw the line can be and balancing this with what Is comfortable interpretation of rules. I get angry at stuff like this too but then I ask myself have I done things that others would judge as risky and I have to say yes. I’ve been far more cautious then most of the people I know (even my in laws and mum) but certainly not been perfect to be honest.

    In terms of people’s mindset on this It’s possibly comparable with the banking crisis whereby the knock on effects were not actually felt by a lot of people or certainly different people were affected differently by it.

    People who’s houses weren’t repossessed or who weren’t being antagonised and harassed by banks only cared about “the banks getting back their money because we own the banks and it’s my money”. They didn’t care about families or people’s lives being destroyed or people committing suicide. It’s like the people who don’t think they will get a bad dose of this don’t really give much consideration to those who may end up getting it because of their attitude towards them. There’s a lot of over laps in human behavior and reactions to these things.

    That’s why I wish we could all focus on our responsibility and taking ownership of things we do right and wrong. Not beat ourselves up but just try to do better and be more aware of the impacts of things we do (and society) and how they effect others.


  • #5913
    Datacore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 178 ✭✭Datacore


    Happydays2020 wrote: »
    SMS alerts should be utilised now. Simple, effective.

    Simple, effective, cheap, environmentally friendly.

    The mobile networks should be just asked to facilitate it as a mass message to all active numbers. No data protection complications as it would just be to everyone without knowing anything about them.

    Plenty of places have emergency alert systems like that in place.


  • #5914
    hmmm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,203 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    Drumpot wrote: »
    I agree there are some misguided people but also A serious part of this problem is that the virus is invisible, it can be easy to let your guard down when for example the option of a coffee shop is there (we have one pub locally doing this too, I don’t go but a lot of people do) .
    I don't go either, but I've no real problem with people standing outside a coffee shop. I think we've done a terrible job at communicating risk, and personally I think the overemphasis on shaming people doing things outside (which is more visible and obvious) has been ill-advised. It's not risk free, but we know the risk is at least 20 times less than indoors activities, and we could have encouraged it (safely - social distance, wear a mask) rather than shaming people.

    Curtains are twitching everywhere at people standing outside drinking a coffee, yet 54,000 people came back into this country in order to meet other people (presumably mostly inside). The Guards are launching "major operations" to stop people going for a walk outside on mountains and beaches. People on here were sneering at suggestions that vulnerable people should be located in well ventilated areas if people were going to insist on all meeting up inside for Christmas dinner.

    It's all arseways as far as I'm concerned. People cannot sustain extended lockdowns and the "#stayathome" mania only lasts a few weeks before people start drifting. If from the very start when we knew this was airborne we had more emphasis on ventilation and doing things outdoors we'd have substantially reduced the overall risk and probably been able to maintain restrictions with less bouncing from panic to reopening to panic again.


  • #5915
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    hmmm wrote: »
    I don't go either, but I've no real problem with people standing outside a coffee shop. I think we've done a terrible job at communicating risk, and personally I think the overemphasis on shaming people doing things outside (which is more visible and obvious) has been ill-advised. It's not risk free, but we know the risk is at least 20 times less than indoors activities.

    Curtains are twitching everywhere at people standing outside drinking a coffee, yet 54,000 people came back into this country in order to meet other people (presumably mostly inside). The Guards are launching "major operations" to stop people going for a walk outside. People on here were sneering at suggestions that vulnerable people should be located in well ventilated areas if people were going to insist on all meeting up inside for Christmas dinner.

    It's all arseways as far as I'm concerned. People cannot sustain extended lockdowns and the "#stayathome" mania only lasts a few weeks before people start drifting. If from the very start when we knew this was airborne we had more emphasis on ventilation and doing things outdoors we'd have substantially reduced the overall risk and probably been able to maintain restrictions with less bouncing from panic to reopening to panic again.

    It was closer to 150000 who came in over Christmas, half of whom refused to state where they were staying


  • #5916
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Stheno wrote: »
    It was closer to 150000 who came in over Christmas, half of whom refused to state where they were staying
    I wouldn't fault the "none of your damned business" attitude, it's the behaviours that go with it which cause problems.


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  • #5917
    froog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭froog


    Seems like confusion around symptoms and when to get a test has started again. The HSE should be very clear on that otherwise its carnage.


  • #5918
    hmmm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,203 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    Stheno wrote: »
    It was closer to 150000 who came in over Christmas, half of whom refused to state where they were staying
    I was just watching the Taoiseach's interview with TV3. The point was put to him that NPHET said we could choose either to reopen hospitality, or allow household visits, but not both.

    The Taoiseach said that they decided to reopen hospitality, but not allow household mixing until the 18th.

    That to me sums up the fantasy of Irish politics. Everyone knew the 18th would be ignored, and there was no attempt at enforcement. People were coming back into the country before the 18th, no-one believed the vast majority of them would pay any attention to quarantining or not mixing. Yet because the advice was issued, we could tick a box and when it all went wrong say "well, no-one could have predicted." Unfortunately for the politicians (and the country), the virus didn't care that we turned a blind eye to it and took its opportunity as a consequence.


  • #5919
    prunudo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,114 ✭✭✭prunudo


    CrabRevolution wrote: »

    I haven't looked at the mobility data but my own non-scientific measure is a motorway I pass over every day on the way to work. During the last lockdown it was eerily empty, but passing it the last few days it still had a decent stream of traffic. Even allowing for essential workers it's not heartening.

    So you're judging road users going to work while you go to work yourself. I don't buy into the notion that there is flagrant rule breaking going on.
    This current level 5 is nothing like last March, there are many more businesses allowed to still be open now. Plenty of retail shops are still open, manufacturing and distribution still operating, essential construction still permitted so supply chains still working.


  • #5920
    eigrod
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,011 ✭✭✭eigrod


    https://twitter.com/riochtconor2/status/1350445195477790726?s=21


  • #5921
    Pelvis Parsley
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,749 ✭✭✭Pelvis Parsley


    seamus wrote: »
    FFS. What an irresponsible article.

    She's a hack of the highest calibre-ex Journal.ie


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  • #5922
    prunudo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,114 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Knowing the type of people that congregate outside coffee shops, huddled maskless closer than 2m, they'll be the first to post on social media about someone else not adhering to the guidelines, whether it is bad mask wearing or breaking the 5km rules.


  • #5923
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    prunudo wrote: »
    Knowing the type of people that congregate outside coffee shops, huddled maskless closer than 2m, they'll be the first to post on social media about someone else not adhering to the guidelines, whether it is bad mask wearing or breaking the 5km rules.

    And what type of people would that be? Who queue for a coffee to take on their walk?

    ffs


  • #5924
    SuperRabbit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 698 ✭✭✭SuperRabbit


    prunudo wrote: »
    Knowing the type of people that congregate outside coffee shops, huddled maskless closer than 2m, they'll be the first to post on social media about someone else not adhering to the guidelines, whether it is bad mask wearing or breaking the 5km rules.

    Ah yes, the people types!

    Introvert - extrovert
    sensing - intuitive
    huddles outside a coffee shop - doesn't huddle outside a coffee shop


  • #5925
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 12,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    I keep hearing from media reports (in UK and Ireland) of younger people (40s/50s) getting very sick and hospitalised.
    Has there been any robust research on this?

    Could it just be because of the increased level of disease in the community?


  • #5926
    prunudo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,114 ✭✭✭prunudo


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    And what type of people would that be? Who queue for a coffee to take on their walk?

    ffs

    The type that like to be seen outside certain coffee shops and intsa their experiences.
    Not saying everyone is like that, but there is certain cohert that would, certainly in my local town anyway.


  • #5927
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,248 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Seems the HSE are researching the rapid test .,A friend of mine was randomly picked at testing site and asked if he would participate .They did the rapid test first and then the other HSE swab test ,They want to compare the results and see if there are discrepancies or if the results tally . Both negative by the way


  • #5928
    Ger Roe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭Ger Roe


    igCorcaigh wrote: »
    I keep hearing from media reports (in UK and Ireland) of younger people (40s/50s) getting very sick and hospitalised.
    Has there been any robust research on this?

    Could it just be because of the increased level of disease in the community?

    This was said by by Colm Henry, it's maths... the more cases the more chance of seriously affecting more people, some of whom will be younger. More disease in the community results in more cases in more age groups - some of whom will have serious complications.

    This disease can badly affect you, no matter what age you are, if more young people get it, some of them will be serious cases. We are at transmission levels that are much higher than we have ever experienced and the statiistical averages are playing out through the higher numbers.

    No evidence as yet that there is any stronger variant, just more easily transmitted.


  • #5929
    Mimon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,473 ✭✭✭Mimon


    SuperRabbit wrote: »
    You can be right wing and collectivistic, there's no correlation between individualism and right v left. Unless you are in the trump cult, which happens to be right wing but could have been left or up or down or anything. If anything the left tends to be actually more individualistic than the right

    Ireland used to be one of the most collectivistic countries in Europe, it was something that set us apart culturally from the British, who were one of the most Individualistic cultures.. what happened to us? https://www.hofstede-insights.com/product/compare-countries/

    Jaysus, we are really bad on long term orientation.

    Can see that in threads like the peat briquette one. The right to burn in our fires an exceptional natural resource seems to outweigh any long term environmental, ecological and heritage loss consequences.


  • #5930
    SuperRabbit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 698 ✭✭✭SuperRabbit


    igCorcaigh wrote: »
    I keep hearing from media reports (in UK and Ireland) of younger people (40s/50s) getting very sick and hospitalised.
    Has there been any robust research on this?

    Could it just be because of the increased level of disease in the community?

    I read a few weeks ago they were finding more young people hospitalized with the SA strain. No use speculating till we know, we'll just drive ourselves mad
    Ger Roe said...
    This was said by by Colm Henry, it's maths... the more cases the more chance of seriously affecting more people, some of whom will be younger. More disease in the community results in more cases in more age groups - some of whom will have serious complications.

    This disease can badly affect you, no matter what age you are, if more young people get it, some of them will be serious cases. We are at transmission levels that are much higher than we have ever experienced and the statiistical averages are playing out through the higher numbers.

    No evidence as yet that there is any stronger variant, just more easily transmitted.

    makes sense!


  • #5931
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Ger Roe wrote: »
    This was said by by Colm Henry, it's maths... the more cases the more chance of seriously affecting more people, some of whom will be younger. More disease in the community results in more cases in more age groups - some of whom will have serious complications.

    This disease can badly affect you, no matter what age you are, if more young people get it, some of them will be serious cases. We are at transmission levels that are much higher than we have ever experienced and the statiistical averages are playing out through the higher numbers.

    No evidence as yet that there is any stronger variant, just more easily transmitted.
    There's also a limited amount of research into who's at risk and why, bar morbidities and age data.


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  • #5932
    majcos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭majcos


    eigrod wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/riochtconor2/status/1350445195477790726?s=21
    This is not an accurate way of calculating hospital acquired infections. It is over-simplistic for many reasons. Patients are testing positive in day 2, 3, 4 etc of admission. Some of those Covid detected cases already have confirmed household or nursing home or residential unit contacts prior to admission. Those cases would not be counted as a confirmed case on admission as initial swab did not detect Covid but were already incubating it as a close contact and then tested positive later in admission. Those cases are not hospital-acquired.

    Cases that occur day one and day two after admission are generally considered community acquired. Cases that occur between day three and day six are investigated by infection control to determine if there is a link with another Covid case (patient or staff) within the hospital system. Particulars of swab results are also assessed and clinical course of each case tracked along with repeat swabs in some cases to see if CT values (indicative of viral load) are rising or falling.

    Hospital acquired infections are most definitely a problem but if a contagious disease is circulating at a high incidence in the community, it will be circulating at a high incidence among staff.


  • #5933
    majcos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭majcos


    igCorcaigh wrote: »
    I keep hearing from media reports (in UK and Ireland) of younger people (40s/50s) getting very sick and hospitalised.
    Has there been any robust research on this?

    Could it just be because of the increased level of disease in the community?
    That is being mentioned by HCWs in Ireland too but as you say there is an increase in incidence in all age groups.

    Most recent 14 day report up to 14th of January shows that of cases hospitalised,
    6.25% are under 25,
    6.99% are between 25-34,
    7.55% between 35-44,
    10.18% 45-54 and
    13.08% 55-64.

    Total of 44% Covid confirmed cases hospitalised in last 14 days are under 65.


  • #5934
    Gruffalux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Gruffalux


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    Seems the HSE are researching the rapid test .,A friend of mine was randomly picked at testing site and asked if he would participate .They did the rapid test first and then the other HSE swab test ,They want to compare the results and see if there are discrepancies or if the results tally . Both negative by the way

    Would be brilliant to have reliable rapid tests.


  • #5935
    majcos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭majcos


    Ger Roe wrote: »
    This was said by by Colm Henry, it's maths... the more cases the more chance of seriously affecting more people, some of whom will be younger. More disease in the community results in more cases in more age groups - some of whom will have serious complications.

    This disease can badly affect you, no matter what age you are, if more young people get it, some of them will be serious cases. We are at transmission levels that are much higher than we have ever experienced and the statiistical averages are playing out through the higher numbers.

    No evidence as yet that there is any stronger variant, just more easily transmitted.
    Completely anecdotal observation is that those younger people (however you want to define young!) are far more surprised that they are needing hospitalisation than they were in the first wave.

    Early in first wave, majority seemed to think they were doomed to die once Covid was detected even when they had minor symptoms but now it seems that more of those younger people are surprised that they are sick at all after testing positive as they considered them as non-vulnerable and they are somewhat in shock that Covid can still cause serious illness in anyone albeit at a lower rate in those who are younger and healthier.


  • #5936
    Carlowgirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 296 ✭✭Carlowgirl


    I am completely disillusioned with the HSE guidelines. There were eight cases in my work last week and I am not deemed a close contact. Obviously community transmission doesn't exist. Being in the same office as people doesn't matter or using the same bathrooms etc. Ifwe can only get covid from face to face contact or being in the same small space for two hours then why are the shops closed. It is a complete contradiction. I am probably carrying this disease now and cant get a test. It just baffles me. Shops closed cos running and out to get something will transmit virus, spend all day with 8 infect people won't transmit virus. I'm completely fed up now sacrificing spending time with family for a job that doesn't care about me.


  • #5937
    DebDynamite
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,727 ✭✭✭DebDynamite


    froog wrote: »
    Seems like confusion around symptoms and when to get a test has started again. The HSE should be very clear on that otherwise its carnage.

    Over Christmas I had typical cold/flu symptoms - aches, chills, sore throat, nausea... however the information ads on tv were “if you have fever, cough and loss of taste or smell you could have Covid”. I was I thinking it’s unlikely I have covid as I have none of those symptoms. Of course from reading other’s experiences on here on contracting it and reading about it in general, I knew there was a wide range of symptoms one could have, but I felt the messaging on the ads wasn’t exactly clear and could he confusing to those who only ever get their news/information from RTÉ. I think the fever bit is pushed a bit too much that people think without it they couldn’t possibly have covid and don’t contact their GP.

    That’s why I think that Irish Times article was useful in advising that people testing positive are not presenting with the typical symptoms most associated with Covid, and any cold/flu symptoms should possibly be investigated.


  • #5938
    Carlowgirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 296 ✭✭Carlowgirl


    And I rang the HSE and they have no problem with me not self isolating. I said that if I was sharing a house with strangers I'd have to self isolate but spending all day with these people doesn't matter..


  • #5939
    Lucas Hood
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,206 ✭✭✭Lucas Hood


    https://twitter.com/COVID19DataIE/status/1350459803756331012?s=19

    3063 positive swabs, 12.2% positivity on 25,114 tests.
    - Saturday, January 16th 2021
    #COVID19Ireland


  • #5940
    SuperRabbit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 698 ✭✭✭SuperRabbit


    Carlowgirl wrote: »
    I am completely disillusioned with the HSE guidelines. There were eight cases in my work last week and I am not deemed a close contact. Obviously community transmission doesn't exist. Being in the same office as people doesn't matter or using the same bathrooms etc. Ifwe can only get covid from face to face contact or being in the same small space for two hours then why are the shops closed. It is a complete contradiction. I am probably carrying this disease now and cant get a test. It just baffles me. Shops closed cos running and out to get something will transmit virus, spend all day with 8 infect people won't transmit virus. I'm completely fed up now sacrificing spending time with family for a job that doesn't care about me.

    I wouldn't say community transmission doesn't exist, there are way too many people who genuinely can't have gotten it any other way... but absolutely it's not as prevalent as untraced close contacts. The thing is we can see from other countries where they do lots of tracing and trace the origin of every case that yeah, community transmission is a thing

    There aren't enough tests for everyone at the moment, that's why the numbers have "plateaued", even if you were a close contact you wouldn't be tested.


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  • #5941
    majcos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭majcos


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    Seems the HSE are researching the rapid test .,A friend of mine was randomly picked at testing site and asked if he would participate .They did the rapid test first and then the other HSE swab test ,They want to compare the results and see if there are discrepancies or if the results tally . Both negative by the way
    https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/news/newsfeatures/covid19-updates/rapid-antigen-detection-tests-project.html

    This has been ongoing for some time. It was done in some of the hospital sites where there was widespread staff surveillance with each person being tested asked to consent to two types of tests for comparison.

    Commercial kits have promised a high degree of accuracy but laboratories always perform their own validation when using new tests. Rapid antigen testing has not performed at all as well as promised thus far which is why the HSE has been slow to adopt it for general use.


This discussion has been closed.
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