General Premier League Thread 2020-21 - Mod Notes in 1st post. [Updated 17/12/20]

yourdeadwright · 15-01-2021 12:51PM

I think we can all agree Bruno is a good player saying otherwise is silly ,
Also saying he is the best player in the league by a stretch is silly there is at least a very good debate around it ,

IncognitoMan · 15-01-2021 12:54PM

That's the thing about a good penalty taker -makes everyone think it's easy and anyone can do it.

Whatsisname · 15-01-2021 01:02PM

citytillidie wrote: »

36 Man Utd (17 & 99)
35
34
33 Liverpool (17 & 96)
32 Man City (16 & 98) Leicester (17 & 95) Everton (17 & 95)
31
30 Spurs (17 & 93)
29 Southampton (17 & 92)
28
27
26 Villa (15 & 95) Chelsea (17 & 89) West Ham (17 & 89)
25
24 Arsenal (18 & 84)
23 Leeds (17 & 86) Palace (18 & 83)
22 Wolves (18 & 82)
21
20
19 Newcastle (17 & 82)
18
17
16 Burnley (16 & 82)
15
14 Brighton (18 & 74)
13
12 Fulham (16 & 78)
11
10
9
8 WBA (17 & 71)
7
6
5 Sheff Utd (18 & 65)

I suddenly like these tables.

DM_7 · 15-01-2021 01:12PM

Bruno is a fine player. 10 non penalty goals and 14 assists is a fine return in 31 games.

A focus on stats does not tell a full story, he facilitates a lot of United's attacking play through his constant movement into spaces.

Certainly one of the best players in the league.

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I'm not knocking Burno in saying that just my opinion ,
What position would you say he plays in out of interest CM , AM is it almost like the old number 10 position ?

Bruno is not a CM for United anyway. No 10 sums him up well in his role for United.

Liamalone · 15-01-2021 01:15PM

ConcertKing wrote: »

Hilarious to see a glorified penalty taker who goes missing in all the big games wins Player Of The Month again!

And only the most blinkered would see Fernandes anywhere near to De Bruynes level on the pitch!

Couldn't have put it better myself.

Fitz* · 15-01-2021 01:24PM

Interesting quote from Rashford and how the players at Man Utd were coached into going down easily or diving to win penalties. It's certainly paying off now.

"When Mourinho was manager, there were five or six times where I should have had a penalty and Jose ended up saying to me: 'If you are not savvy about the way you do it, you are not going to get it.’

“After that, we started to get a few"

L'prof · 15-01-2021 01:28PM

citytillidie wrote: »

24 Arsenal (18 & 84)

What do the numbers in brackets mean lads? Brain not functioning today

CSF · 15-01-2021 01:28PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I think we can all agree Bruno is a good player saying otherwise is silly ,
Also saying he is the best player in the league by a stretch is silly there is at least a very good debate around it ,

Come on, we have to be realistic. He isn't close to the best player in the league. In the same way that if we are realistic, Salah never was, if you look past the goal stats sheets.

If you watched Match of the Day for each game you could reasonably conclude that he is world class, but actually watching the games, he isn't as assertive in games over the course of the 90 minutes as the real greats.

No questioning that Bruno has been instrumental in Man United's revival, but in terms of ability on a football pitch and what he contributes in a game, he is behind De Bruyne, Grealish and probably Kane.

I think if Bruno wants to become world class (and he can, because he has some other immense qualities) as an attacking midfielder, he needs to become a better ball carrier. He isn't elite at this at all. Great goalscorer, very good at picking out a pass, but he cannot carry the ball forward himself consistently like the greats.

CSF · 15-01-2021 01:29PM

L'prof wrote: »

What do the numbers in brackets mean lads? Brain not functioning today

Took me ages to cop this too. It is the amount of games played, and the max amount of points the team can finish on.

NITRO95 · 15-01-2021 01:30PM

Surely everyone is intelligent enough to realise all players dive. It's hardly front page news in 2021 that players go down easy and are told to do so

Dave0301 · 15-01-2021 01:32PM

NITRO95 wrote: »

Surely everyone is intelligent enough to realise all players dive. It's hardly front page news in 2021 that players go down easy and are told to do so

No no, you are doing it wrong.

Only rival teams and their players go down to try and win a penalty.

NITRO95 · 15-01-2021 01:38PM

Dave0301 wrote: »

No no, you are doing it wrong.

Only rival teams and their players go down to try and win a penalty.

It is funny that some fans are like the mothers that can never admit that their kids a little bollix
"oh no my Johnny would never do that"
"oh no my Mane/Bruno/Kane etc would never do that"

JPA · 15-01-2021 01:39PM

NITRO95 wrote: »

Surely everyone is intelligent enough to realise all players dive. It's hardly front page news in 2021 that players go down easy and are told to do so

Yep. Basically every player is now a diver.

'He felt contact'
'He has a right to go down'
'He was clever'

How many penalties this season could players have stayed on their feet for? Impossible to quantify I suppose.

15-01-2021 01:40PM

NITRO95 wrote: »

Surely everyone is intelligent enough to realise all players dive. It's hardly front page news in 2021 that players go down easy and are told to do so

It's good to be relevant again, even if only for a short while!
The winging about refs, diving, decisions and penalties are back in full force :pac:

jacool · 15-01-2021 01:43PM

brinty wrote: »

Fair enough, but sure what's that famous saying about opinions...................

I think all posters should read this.
Can you please resist in posting opinions from now on?

citytillidie · 15-01-2021 01:48PM

L'prof wrote: »

What do the numbers in brackets mean lads? Brain not functioning today

Games played and Max Points available. They were requested as not all teams have played the same amount of games and another person wanted a quick look at the max points a team can get.

L'prof · 15-01-2021 01:52PM

CSF wrote: »

Took me ages to cop this too. It is the amount of games played, and the max amount of points the team can finish on.

citytillidie wrote: »

Games played and Max Points available. They were requested as not all teams have played the same amount of games and another person wanted a quick look at the max points a team can get.

Cheers lads, really should have figured that out myself

Jesus a max of 99 points less than half way is shocking given recent points tallies

brinty · 15-01-2021 01:55PM

citytillidie wrote:

Games played and Max Points available. They were requested as not all teams have played the same amount of games and another person wanted a quick look at the max points a team can get.

So if Manchester United win all their remaining games, they win the league....

L'prof · 15-01-2021 01:58PM

brinty wrote: »

So if Manchester United win all their remaining games, they win the league....

Going on the tallies right now you could probably go down as far as Burnley and that statement would hold true

DM_7 · 15-01-2021 02:20PM

CSF wrote: »

Come on, we have to be realistic. He isn't close to the best player in the league. In the same way that if we are realistic, Salah never was, if you look past the goal stats sheets.

If you watched Match of the Day for each game you could reasonably conclude that he is world class, but actually watching the games, he isn't as assertive in games over the course of the 90 minutes as the real greats.

No questioning that Bruno has been instrumental in Man United's revival, but in terms of ability on a football pitch and what he contributes in a game, he is behind De Bruyne, Grealish and probably Kane.

I think if Bruno wants to become world class (and he can, because he has some other immense qualities) as an attacking midfielder, he needs to become a better ball carrier. He isn't elite at this at all. Great goalscorer, very good at picking out a pass, but he cannot carry the ball forward himself consistently like the greats.

The inclusion of Grealish as a player Bruno is behind only makes sense (to me) when the criteria of needing to be a strong ball carrier is pushed to the forefront of what makes a great attacking player. It is Grealish's greatest attribute.

That does not mean he is prototype for what a great player should do or that great players have to be ball carriers.

Bruno plays more central area for United. In more open play he is there to link and release the ball to the players United would want to carry the ball. In build up play when the opponent is more set defensively he moves around finding space and linking play.

I think all 4 (KDB, Grealish, Kane, Bruno) are all close for their ability, output and influence on their teams. Would add Robertson and Salah from Liverpool in also if listing best players.

.G. · 15-01-2021 02:28PM

L'prof wrote: »

What do the numbers in brackets mean lads? Brain not functioning today

Games played and max points possible to win.

CSF · 15-01-2021 02:31PM

DM_7 wrote: »

The inclusion of Grealish as a player Bruno is behind only makes sense (to me) when the criteria of needing to be a strong ball carrier is pushed to the forefront of what makes a great attacking player. It is Grealish's greatest attribute.

That does not mean he is prototype for what a great player should do or that great players have to be ball carriers.

Bruno plays more central area for United. In more open play he is there to link and release the ball to the players United would want to carry the ball. In build up play when the opponent is more set defensively he moves around finding space and linking play.

I think all 4 (KDB, Grealish, Kane, Bruno) are all close for their ability, output and influence on their teams. Would add Robertson and Salah from Liverpool in also if listing best players.

If you have a look at the stats for Grealish progressing the football as a passer, they're basically the same as the other players who are good at this also. In terms of progressing the football forward, he is an all rounder. 9 assists for a guy who doesn't really take a high percentage of set pieces (takes the odd corner and free kick but not many) would reflect this also, but obviously that stat should not be considered in itself.

My perception of Grealish at the moment is that he finally is basically getting the credit he deserves. But I think if you added 4 or 5 penalty goals to his tally, people would be talking about him in a different conversation also.

Accusations of Bruno merely being a penalty merchant are clearly wide of the mark, he is an excellent footballer. But I think if Rashford took the penalties at United, and you removed those from Bruno's stats, we would talk about him in a very different light all the same.

I appreciate everything Bruno has done since joining United, and he has been pivotal to everything United have done in terms of their revival. But you don't watch him play and think you're watching greatness in most of the things he does. Whereas De Bruyne has set the standard (particularly since Hazard left) in terms of just oozing quality in most of what he does.

DM_7 · 15-01-2021 03:22PM

CSF wrote: »

If you have a look at the stats for Grealish progressing the football as a passer, they're basically the same as the other players who are good at this also. In terms of progressing the football forward, he is an all rounder. 9 assists for a guy who doesn't really take a high percentage of set pieces (takes the odd corner and free kick but not many) would reflect this also, but obviously that stat should not be considered in itself.

My perception of Grealish at the moment is that he finally is basically getting the credit he deserves. But I think if you added 4 or 5 penalty goals to his tally, people would be talking about him in a different conversation also.

Accusations of Bruno merely being a penalty merchant are clearly wide of the mark, he is an excellent footballer. But I think if Rashford took the penalties at United, and you removed those from Bruno's stats, we would talk about him in a very different light all the same.

I appreciate everything Bruno has done since joining United, and he has been pivotal to everything United have done in terms of their revival. But you don't watch him play and think you're watching greatness in most of the things he does. Whereas De Bruyne has set the standard (particularly since Hazard left) in terms of just oozing quality in most of what he does.

Fair enough. I think Grealish is great.

I think Bruno does a lot he does a lot of other things he is not getting credit for - because he scored so many pens - like his awareness and movement which is elite.

His goal and two assists v Everton away are a great example of the wide range of skills he has. His headed goal was fantastic, taking advantage of the defenders line and timing of his run to score a headed goal.

His goal v Newcastle (after missing a peno) was another elite example of his play and movement. To read the play and assess the situation and make the only run option that no Newcastle player could cover and finish like he did was perfection.

Against Leicester, his movement and game reading leads to a goal for him, as soon as he sees Cavani dropping deep to receive a pass he is off and positioned in the CF position between the full back and CB - ready to run in behind. (Vardy was also exceptional for his goal with movement)

brinty · 15-01-2021 03:27PM

DM_7 wrote: »

Fair enough. I think Grealish is great.

I think Bruno does a lot he does a lot of other things he is not getting credit for - because he scored so many pens - like his awareness and movement which is elite.

His goal and two assists v Everton away are a great example of the wide range of skills he has. His headed goal was fantastic, taking advantage of the defenders line and timing of his run to score a headed goal.

His goal v Newcastle (after missing a peno) was another elite example of his play and movement. To read the play and assess the situation and make the only run option that no Newcastle player could cover and finish like he did was perfection.

Against Leicester, his movement and game reading leads to a goal for him, as soon as he sees Cavani dropping deep to receive a pass he is off and positioned in the CF position between the full back and CB - ready to run in behind. (Vardy was also exceptional for his goal with movement)

Hush now DM_7, don't you know we're not supposed to proclaim any of our players are any good, and that we're vastly inferior to the mighty reds. Don't forget they've the best goalkeeper, right, left and centre back in the world......

I mean we don't even have a player like the imcomparable Jack Grealish, a player that's so sought after no team even tried to sign him in this our the last transfer windows??

:cool::cool::cool::cool:

yourdeadwright · 15-01-2021 03:53PM

brinty wrote: »

Hush now DM_7, don't you know we're not supposed to proclaim any of our players are any good, and that we're vastly inferior to the mighty reds. Don't forget they've the best goalkeeper, right, left and centre back in the world......

I mean we don't even have a player like the imcomparable Jack Grealish, a player that's so sought after no team even tried to sign him in this our the last transfer windows??

:cool::cool::cool::cool:

Which one of the guys named so far KDB, Grealish or Kane play for the "mighty red"

yourdeadwright · 15-01-2021 03:58PM

CSF wrote: »

Come on, we have to be realistic. He isn't close to the best player in the league. In the same way that if we are realistic, Salah never was, if you look past the goal stats sheets.

If you watched Match of the Day for each game you could reasonably conclude that he is world class, but actually watching the games, he isn't as assertive in games over the course of the 90 minutes as the real greats.

No questioning that Bruno has been instrumental in Man United's revival, but in terms of ability on a football pitch and what he contributes in a game, he is behind De Bruyne, Grealish and probably Kane.

I think if Bruno wants to become world class (and he can, because he has some other immense qualities) as an attacking midfielder, he needs to become a better ball carrier. He isn't elite at this at all. Great goalscorer, very good at picking out a pass, but he cannot carry the ball forward himself consistently like the greats.

I'm a Liverpool fan so it pains me to say it but i'm sorry there is NO question Bruno is IN the debate for best player in the league to say other wise is just stupid ,

I understand you may not think he the actual best as there are few good options but he is certainly in the conversation

He has had a better season than any Liverpool player that is for sure Bruno , KDB, Grealish and Kane the only ones who are even an option's so far this season,

~Rebel~ · 15-01-2021 04:09PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I'm a Liverpool fan so it pains me to say it but i'm sorry there is NO question Bruno is IN the debate for best player in the league to say other wise is just stupid ,

I understand you may not think he the actual best as there are few good options but he is certainly in the conversation

He has had a better season than any Liverpool player that is for sure Bruno , KDB, Grealish and Kane the only ones who are even an option's so far this season,

I’d extend it a wee bit with Son and Salah included as well. These two have been a bit quieter over the last 2 weeks, but both having terrific seasons too. (They are the two top scorers in the league after all)

yourdeadwright · 15-01-2021 04:12PM

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I’d extend it a wee bit with Son and Salah included as well. These two have been a bit quieter over the last 2 weeks, but both having terrific seasons too. (They are the two top scorers in the league after all)

Salah been very poor since he got Covid

adaminho · 15-01-2021 04:13PM

CSF wrote: »

If you have a look at the stats for Grealish progressing the football as a passer, they're basically the same as the other players who are good at this also. In terms of progressing the football forward, he is an all rounder. 9 assists for a guy who doesn't really take a high percentage of set pieces (takes the odd corner and free kick but not many) would reflect this also, but obviously that stat should not be considered in itself.

Progression stats are not an indicator either.

https://twitter.com/playmaker_EN/status/1349712035467173892?s=19

~Rebel~ · 15-01-2021 04:16PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Salah been very poor since he got Covid

Ah he really hasn’t. He’s not been at his own personal best, but still top scorer in the league.

He’s had a poor past 2 weeks (as has the whole team), but as a season he’s still having a pretty decent one.

General Premier League Thread 2020-21 - Mod Notes in 1st post. [Updated 17/12/20]

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