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Covid 19 Part XXXI-187,554 ROI (2,970 deaths) 100,319 NI (1,730 deaths)(24/01)Read OP

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Comments

  • #5462
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Geuze wrote: »
    But if the staff all wear PPE, how could the staff be causing the transmission?
    Think of PPE like contraception. Even with perfect use, a certain amount of the time some of those little bastards will get through.

    Cross-contamination within hospitals is likely a big enough issue (covid and non-covid staff mixing, sharing locker rooms, canteens, etc), but in practical terms with a sickness of this nature, some level of cross-infection is likely to occur.


  • #5463
    podgeandrodge
    Site Banned Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭podgeandrodge


    DraftDodger wrote: »
    I see France is introducing a nationwide 6pm curfew from today for 14 days. Could do with something similar here to halt the spread.

    I don't really understand curfews. An american site referred to it as:

    "Curfews are intended to reduce nonessential interactions with people outside your household, if people are staying home and not socializing with people outside their household, they drastically reduce their chances of catching or spreading disease. During these curfews people can still leave their houses, but not to gather with people from other households."

    But the French one, from what I have read, states: "The new national curfew will stay in place for at least 15 days and means everyone must be at home, unless they are returning from school or work, by 18:00 every day."

    Why not limit outside activity to people on their own or as part of a household. Why stop them leaving the house?


  • #5464
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,755 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Geuze wrote: »
    77,303 vaccine doses administered up to midnight on January 13.

    69,378 of them are frontline healthcare workers.

    7,925 in long term care facilities.

    that's great


  • #5465
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    is_that_so wrote: »
    What rules?

    The order in which vaccination was to take place. You seem Hell bent on defending this. And left over doses doesn't wash. HCWs were available and ready to put their arm out at a moment's notice. It's quite simple really; if no one used their position to jump the queue or arrange for someone else to jump the queue, then there is no issue. But if anyone did, then it is a very serious matter and it warrants investigation.


  • #5466
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,755 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Suggestions that people were using up allocated remaining doses to avoid them being wasted are just as credible. People will believe what they want on this and outrage is such a great currency.

    well if so, is this not one of these things that best laid to rest publicly in a transparent manner?

    rather than letting stories mutate into something that doesn't do anyone any good!


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  • #5467
    marno21
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,650 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    I don't understand the obsession with curfews. People giving out one minute about parks being full and streets being full and shops being full also want reduced time windows for people to leave their houses so they all have to go out at similar times. Which is it?


  • #5468
    RandomViewer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    podgeandrodge wrote: »
    I don't really understand curfews. An american site referred to it as:

    "Curfews are intended to reduce nonessential interactions with people outside your household, if people are staying home and not socializing with people outside their household, they drastically reduce their chances of catching or spreading disease. During these curfews people can still leave their houses, but not to gather with people from other households."

    But the French one, from what I have read, states: "The new national curfew will stay in place for at least 15 days and means everyone must be at home, unless they are returning from school or work, by 18:00 every day."

    Why not limit outside activity to people on their own or as part of a household. Why stop them leaving the house?

    They are leaving the house and meeting up with others ,


  • #5469
    JazzyJ
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 686 ✭✭✭JazzyJ


    podgeandrodge wrote: »
    I don't really understand curfews. An american site referred to it as:

    "Curfews are intended to reduce nonessential interactions with people outside your household, if people are staying home and not socializing with people outside their household, they drastically reduce their chances of catching or spreading disease. During these curfews people can still leave their houses, but not to gather with people from other households."

    But the French one, from what I have read, states: "The new national curfew will stay in place for at least 15 days and means everyone must be at home, unless they are returning from school or work, by 18:00 every day."

    Why not limit outside activity to people on their own or as part of a household. Why stop them leaving the house?

    That American definition is not really a curfew - its really just restrictions.

    I guess its easier to enforce a full curfew than having to investigate if people are interacting with others outside their household. And there's a certain percentage of people that will break the rules.

    I'm really not sure if its a good idea to have a full curfew like that though. For essential purposes like grocery shopping and exercise it will increase the density of people in locations.


  • #5470
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,248 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Some people are perpetually furious throughout this anyway and it takes little to set them off. As has been explained here and by the HSE some people may not be frontline HCWs but are patient facing. I also see it as a smart call to use up remaining doses even if some "less deserving" people get them.

    Remaining doses yes , but not going first ahead of frontline would be my issue . If non frontline management were to get remaining doses I cannot see the problem but I definitely would if they were prioritised ahead of others


  • #5471
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,755 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    marno21 wrote: »
    I don't understand the obsession with curfews. People giving out one minute about parks being full and streets being full and shops being full also want reduced time windows for people to leave their houses so they all have to go out at similar times. Which is it?

    there's a solid cohort of people that wouldn't be happy unless each front door was guarded by military personnel..

    a curfew in the middle of winter when it's dark by five is a hilarious concept


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  • #5472
    RandomViewer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Some people are perpetually furious throughout this anyway and it takes little to set them off. As has been explained here and by the HSE some people may not be frontline HCWs but are patient facing. I also see it as a smart call to use up remaining doses even if some "less deserving" people get them.

    Its theft and should be viewed as such


  • #5473
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    polesheep wrote: »
    The order in which vaccination was to take place. You seem Hell bent on defending this. And left over doses doesn't wash. HCWs were available and ready to put their arm out at a moment's notice. It's quite simple really; if no one used their position to jump the queue or arrange for someone else to jump the queue, then there is no issue. But if anyone did, then it is a very serious matter and it warrants investigation.

    That's a plan, not a set of rules. They also initially had a plan of holding back a large buffer, that has now changed. Not defending, explaining. You'll believe what you will.


  • #5474
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    RandomViewer wrote: »
    Its theft and should be viewed as such
    Under what law?


  • #5475
    podgeandrodge
    Site Banned Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭podgeandrodge


    Neamhshuntasach wrote: »
    I've mentioned it here a number of times as I get it first hand from my wife. A lot are the numbers are not people coming in with symptoms related to Covid and end up hospitalised. They are acquired in hospital. In her hospital there are over 100 with covid in general beds. She said a majority were in for other ailments. Her own uncle is one of those included in the figures. Ended up in hospital with pneumonia. Shook that and then got covid.

    The ICU in her hospital is pretty much people moved to ICU while already admitted to hospital for either something else and acquired covid. Or came in with bad covid symptoms and were eventually moved. She didn't do a survey or nothing. But said the age of those in ICU would be quite old. Not to imply that makes it ok or anything. You just don't see much stats for the age profile of those in ICU and I've seen the question asked her a few times.

    In her own words, the pressure is just the same as most winters. Not much phases her and of course every medical professional can have a different take. She said it's the effect it is having on treatments and patients overall that gets to her the most. She can't do what herself and colleagues want to do because of covid dominating so much.
    Goldengirl wrote: »
    This post is lies .

    You have posted before comments like this but I know which hospitals have the cases flooding in in Dublin , and only Cork has high numbers like you say and that they are all Covid except for a few who tested positive for Covid in hospital .
    If she thinks this is the same as other winters she must be the stupidest , most dangerous doctor and should be reported to the Medical Council right away .

    But she is obviously a fabrication so no worries.

    I think I've read somewhere that a significant number of covid cases were acquired in hospital.


  • #5476
    RandomViewer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Will any news source run with the Headline " Dinny flunkies stole my vaccine "


  • #5477
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,327 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    podgeandrodge wrote: »
    I don't really understand curfews. An american site referred to it as:

    "Curfews are intended to reduce nonessential interactions with people outside your household, if people are staying home and not socializing with people outside their household, they drastically reduce their chances of catching or spreading disease. During these curfews people can still leave their houses, but not to gather with people from other households."

    But the French one, from what I have read, states: "The new national curfew will stay in place for at least 15 days and means everyone must be at home, unless they are returning from school or work, by 18:00 every day."

    Why not limit outside activity to people on their own or as part of a household. Why stop them leaving the house?


    It is very hard to police and enforce a vague "stay at home except for essential things" rule. You get too many people taking the piss and thinking that they can travel from Meath to South Co. Dublin because if they get stopped they can just say they were going for a burger.



    A curfew is much easier to enforce. It is clear and unambiguous. The curfew won't really affect those who would have abided by the rules anyway. If someone is out in the curfew then they will need proper proof. If much less people are out and about, it becomes feasible to check for that proof.


  • #5478
    GreeBo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,507 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    podgeandrodge wrote: »
    I don't really understand curfews. An american site referred to it as:

    "Curfews are intended to reduce nonessential interactions with people outside your household, if people are staying home and not socializing with people outside their household, they drastically reduce their chances of catching or spreading disease. During these curfews people can still leave their houses, but not to gather with people from other households."

    But the French one, from what I have read, states: "The new national curfew will stay in place for at least 15 days and means everyone must be at home, unless they are returning from school or work, by 18:00 every day."

    Why not limit outside activity to people on their own or as part of a household. Why stop them leaving the house?

    Becuase its simply much easier to stop anyone from being outside after 6pm then have idiots look for loopholes constantly.


  • #5479
    GreeBo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,507 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    RandomViewer wrote: »
    Its theft and should be viewed as such

    Who is the victim here, the bin those about to spoil doses were destined for?


  • #5480
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    podgeandrodge wrote: »
    I don't really understand curfews.
    I think the use of curfews is more cultural than practical. That is, as soon as there is any need for public order, one of the go-to measures is a curfew, without considering whether it's effective or necessary. In principle a curfew simplifies policing - anyone on the street can be sent home, they don't have to be interrogated.

    I expect the rationale in virus terms is that if you're working all day and there's a curfew at night, then you won't be able to go out and meet anyone.

    Of course, if you want to meet someone then you just do it before curfew. So rather than reducing movement of people, it instead concentrates it.

    The fact that we have successfully reduced transmission at least 3 times now without a curfew while other countries with curfews have struggled, tells us that a curfew is probably not an effective measure.


  • #5481
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    lawred2 wrote: »
    well if so, is this not one of these things that best laid to rest publicly in a transparent manner?

    rather than letting stories mutate into something that doesn't do anyone any good!
    As someone observed earlier, there's a lot o clickbait about. Henry did speak to that yesterday and said they'll be giving stronger guidance.


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  • #5482
    MerlinSouthDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭MerlinSouthDub


    Today's GP referral data is out.

    Small decline from yesterday (5% to 10% depending on which data point you look at)

    https://tomorrowscare.ie/covid/2021-01-15_COVID_GP_Survey_Results.pdf

    This data is published on weekdays only. May I take this opportunity to say that I don't like Sundays - the only case data we have on Sundays is the random numbers which NPHET publish as case numbers. Saturdays I can cope with, at least we get swab data.


  • #5483
    podgeandrodge
    Site Banned Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭podgeandrodge


    Donald Trump wrote: »
    It is very hard to police and enforce a vague "stay at home except for essential things" rule. You get too many people taking the piss and thinking that they can travel from Meath to South Co. Dublin because if they get stopped they can just say they were going for a burger.



    A curfew is much easier to enforce. It is clear and unambiguous. The curfew won't really affect those who would have abided by the rules anyway. If someone is out in the curfew then they will need proper proof. If much less people are out and about, it becomes feasible to check for that proof.

    Yeah, but it will affect people, if you can't go for a simple walk around the block for some fresh air. People on their own or as a couple shouldn't be stopped if they are "on the move" as opposed to congregating imo.


  • #5484
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    is_that_so wrote: »
    That's a plan, not a set of rules. They also initially had a plan of holding back a large buffer, that has now changed. Not defending, explaining. You'll believe what you will.

    Call it whatever you want to, if there was favouritism that is unacceptable. I believe that it should be investigated.


  • #5485
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 12,452 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    Good news that the Brazilian variant detected in the UK is NOT the one that is causing concern (there are two variants detected in Brazil).
    We do have a lot of Brazilian workers in the country, so I hope they are keeping an eye out for the new variants here.


  • #5486
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,248 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Who is the victim here, the bin those about to spoil doses were destined for?

    That is not what was being discussed . The discussion was about anecdotal posts that management were getting it first before the frontline staff


  • #5487
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    is_that_so wrote: »
    As someone observed earlier, there's a lot o clickbait about. Henry did speak to that yesterday and said they'll be giving stronger guidance.
    Is there a link to what he actually said? I expect he merely remarked that the HSE would give clearer guidance to teams on what to do with spare doses rather than having them distribute them in a haphazard fashion.

    There is as yet no evidence that any management team anywhere snapped up a batch for themselves and excluded frontline workers.


  • #5488
    TonyMaloney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭TonyMaloney


    seamus wrote: »
    I think the use of curfews is more cultural than practical. That is, as soon as there is any need for public order, one of the go-to measures is a curfew, without considering whether it's effective or necessary. In principle a curfew simplifies policing - anyone on the street can be sent home, they don't have to be interrogated.

    I expect the rationale in virus terms is that if you're working all day and there's a curfew at night, then you won't be able to go out and meet anyone.

    Of course, if you want to meet someone then you just do it before curfew. So rather than reducing movement of people, it instead concentrates it.

    The fact that we have successfully reduced transmission at least 3 times now without a curfew while other countries with curfews have struggled, tells us that a curfew is probably not an effective measure.

    Probably a little soon for "mission accomplished" on this current wave.

    We want to pull a Belgium this time around, but there's alternative paths to follow.

    539557.png


  • #5489
    Eod100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,176 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    Netherlands government has collapsed. Elections due in March. Interesting to see how they will manage elections with covid. Will be one of first elections to happen in Europe/EU during covid afaik so interesting times!


  • #5490
    podgeandrodge
    Site Banned Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭podgeandrodge


    Neamhshuntasach wrote: »
    I've mentioned it here a number of times as I get it first hand from my wife. A lot are the numbers are not people coming in with symptoms related to Covid and end up hospitalised. They are acquired in hospital. In her hospital there are over 100 with covid in general beds. She said a majority were in for other ailments. Her own uncle is one of those included in the figures. Ended up in hospital with pneumonia. Shook that and then got covid.

    The ICU in her hospital is pretty much people moved to ICU while already admitted to hospital for either something else and acquired covid. Or came in with bad covid symptoms and were eventually moved. She didn't do a survey or nothing. But said the age of those in ICU would be quite old. Not to imply that makes it ok or anything. You just don't see much stats for the age profile of those in ICU and I've seen the question asked her a few times.

    In her own words, the pressure is just the same as most winters. Not much phases her and of course every medical professional can have a different take. She said it's the effect it is having on treatments and patients overall that gets to her the most. She can't do what herself and colleagues want to do because of covid dominating so much.
    Goldengirl wrote: »
    This post is lies .

    You have posted before comments like this but I know which hospitals have the cases flooding in in Dublin , and only Cork has high numbers like you say and that they are all Covid except for a few who tested positive for Covid in hospital .
    If she thinks this is the same as other winters she must be the stupidest , most dangerous doctor and should be reported to the Medical Council right away .

    But she is obviously a fabrication so no worries.
    Neamhshuntasach wrote: »
    I was called a liar the other night and accused of fabricating a wife because I had said that her hospital had a majority of covid cases acquired in hospital over people turning up solely with covid symptoms so bad that they required hospitalisation. Despite referencing her profession on boards over 10 years ago. And now there we have reports of over 50% in some hospitals during this wave. Her hospital has always and still does have more people in it with hospital acquired covid than people coming in with symptoms for it. And it's not all people coming in with bumps and bruises or sprains and testing positive. Some are people who are in for more serious conditions and have already been in hospital for weeks. Look at the free beds, the admissions and discharges. You can see it in the figures for some hospitals. And I don't mean all hospitals. I only have input from one hospital.

    The point of my post was to offer another view of the situation from a first hand perspective. No agenda or down playing impact of covid as any of my other minimal posts in this forum would show. The case numbers are still the same regardless and not that it makes a massive difference to how people got it in terms of hospital capacity or the severity of the virus on an individual. But it does show that there is more info behind the stats. And it does have an impact on how people perceive the situation. Of course it's bad in hospitals. Holistically it's bad because of covid. Anyone who says it's grand or A and E is empty and flu seasons are just as bad are talking boll0x. But I do think using the words admissions without additional context adds unnecessary fear. Even my own mother was terrified when reading reports of 100-200 admissions in 24 hours, despite not leaving the house. It's implied that people from the community are so sick from covid that they pouring into hospitals each day during level 5 restrictions. It breeds a lot of fear for people who may be struggling enough already.

    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    The response was well over the top and should warrant lots of apologies.

    Appreciate the alternative view
    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    Well thought out reply. Theres one or two posters in particular who owe you an apology(they know who they are) for claiming you were essentially making up that you had a wife despite you having posted infrequently going way back, and having family in the health service when you posted about vaccination etc I had heard the very same from my family.

    Catching up now following my last post, yes, I found Neamhshuntasach's posts to be rational, and it wasn't like he was one of our recently registered friends, who have a propensity to make stuff up a lot. Now that I read up to 50% of cases are being acquired in hospital settings, what he has been saying appears to be very fair indeed.


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  • #5491
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,327 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    podgeandrodge wrote: »
    Yeah, but it will affect people, if you can't go for a simple walk around the block for some fresh air. People on their own or as a couple shouldn't be stopped if they are "on the move" as opposed to congregating imo.




    But that is the unfortunate price that we all have to pay because some people will take the piss. Unfortunately we have a culture that, once an allowance is made for perfectly reasonable and justifiable harmless scenarios, others will try to use that as a loophole to do unreasonable things which it most definitely was not intended for. Some other countries are probably similar.


This discussion has been closed.
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