Twitter's alleged bias towards left-wing trolls.

zom · 13-01-2021 12:24pm

All story - day after banning half of America because "Twitter is private business and they can ban whoever they want", Twitter is whinging about censorship as they got banned in Uganda ahead of national election:

https://twitter.com/Policy/status/1349059275461685250
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tucker-carlson-twitter-uganda-deplatform-conservatives-censorship-trump

Welcome to Brave New World

osarusan · 13-01-2021 12:56pm

I think Trump is actually a red herring in one way, as Twitter actually gave him a lot of leeway in comparison to 'ordinary' users, and explained that this was because of his position as the president. It took him egging on people attacking the capitol building for them to suspend him, so it was a pretty high bar in his case.

For me, the elimination of Parler is quite different and more serious than the banning/censorship within a particular medium.

There's a big difference between 'We're not going to let people say that kind of stuff on our platform' and 'We're not going to let people say that kind of stuff anywhere'.

ancapailldorcha · 13-01-2021 1:02pm

osarusan wrote: »

I think Trump is actually a red herring in one way, as Twitter actually gave him a lot of leeway in comparison to 'ordinary' users, and explained that this was because of his position as the president. It took him egging on people attacking the capitol building for them to suspend him, so it was a pretty high bar in his case.

For me, the elimination of Parler is quite different and more serious than the banning/censorship within a particular medium.

There's a big difference between 'We're not going to let people say that kind of stuff on our platform' and 'We're not going to let people say that kind of stuff anywhere'.

I'd say that the tech firms just didn't want to get involved. They knew they'd be vulnerable to the misplaced and disingenuous accusations of censorship we're seeing now. Of course, this was before the president tried to launch a coup so I think they knew their time of sitting on the sidelines was coming to an end even before that but this was the trigger.

Sonics2k · 13-01-2021 1:20pm

zom wrote: »

Day after banning half of America because "Twitter is private business and they can ban whoever they want", Twitter is whinging about censorship as they got banned in Uganda ahead of national election:

https://twitter.com/Policy/status/1349059275461685250
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tucker-carlson-twitter-uganda-deplatform-conservatives-censorship-trump

Welcome to Brave New World

If you can't see the difference between these two things, you have a serious problem.

Akesh · 13-01-2021 1:34pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I'd say that the tech firms just didn't want to get involved. They knew they'd be vulnerable to the misplaced and disingenuous accusations of censorship we're seeing now. Of course, this was before the president tried to launch a coup so I think they knew their time of sitting on the sidelines was coming to an end even before that but this was the trigger.

Do you find any irony in the fact that you have an Orwell quote in your signature yet are actively supporting censorship on social media?

I think it's very clear who is being disingenuous and who isn't. It's very clear you're being extremely disingenuous by suggesting this isn't censorship and they are just a private company.

Your argument on this issue seems to be "they are a private company operating within the law". That is a completely disingenuous argument.

Do you not see the irony here at all? I suspect not

Eric Cartman · 13-01-2021 1:50pm

Sonics2k wrote: »

If you can't see the difference between these two things, you have a serious problem.

Its people of a given opinion not wanting people to see other opinions and removing access to platforms that could potentially show those other opinions.
Its quite similar.

Tony EH · 13-01-2021 1:52pm

Akesh wrote: »

Do you find any irony in the fact that you have an Orwell quote in your signature yet are actively supporting censorship on social media?

:pac:

You do realise you're talking to a mod...

...that operates on a private message board...

...that has carded and banned people for breaking the rules of that private message board...

...about so called "censorship" on social media...

Talk about "irony".

Dyr · 13-01-2021 2:00pm

Tony EH wrote: »

Not even close.

And YOU know that.

https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.cnn.com%2Fcnnnext%2Fdam%2Fassets%2F200619124543-omar-ocasio-tlaib-2019-restricted.jpg

On your bike, good sir

Silentcorner · 13-01-2021 2:05pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I'd say that the tech firms just didn't want to get involved. They knew they'd be vulnerable to the misplaced and disingenuous accusations of censorship we're seeing now. Of course, this was before the president tried to launch a coup so I think they knew their time of sitting on the sidelines was coming to an end even before that but this was the trigger.

They acted in unison to get completely disable a competitor!!!! They did so with absolute confidence right in front of the world knowing they don't have to worry about the consequences as the political party they have supported are now in power.

This is unprecedented, at least now no one can deny who are behaving like fascists...

President tried to launch a coup?...with morons armed with cable ties? Honestly, if he was the fascist leader some radicals would have you believe he'd have been ballot stuffing last Nov through every means necessary undermining the legal vote...

Tony EH · 13-01-2021 2:08pm

Bambi wrote: »

Still not close.

FTA69 · 13-01-2021 2:08pm

Tony EH wrote: »

This has always been a problem with zealots of any shade and not just on here. They're happy with things so long as they're on the pig's back and don't give a tinkers cuss if there are others put out by the measures they like to see in place. In fact, a lot of them rejoice in the fact that it 's puts others out. But then they start whinging when those measures they were for turn around and bites them on the arse.

Then it's time for a "new look" at things.

That type will always be around and they'll always be unworthy of an ear.

I agree that there is a huge amount of hypocrisy coming from those who vehemently believe in the innate right to private property and conservatism etc but they're not the people I was addressing in my post to be fair.

Who are these people though?

Loads of people I know involved in left politics are seal-clapping this decision unreservedly; from people in my own trade union to activists in Labour and others on the left. I've seen it repeated in my personal networks as well as being expressed on a wider scale across social media and the like. Numerous journalists in outlets like the Guardian and Novara Media etc were also trumpeting this, seemingly ignorant of the fact that this could well rebound on any left-wing challenge at some stage (and it already is, if you look at the examples I've given.)

The vast majority of people understand that if you're out of line on a message board and break their rules, you'll get the whip. And if you continuously do it, you'll get banned from using that platform. There's nothing else to really understand here

I get that. I'm not shocked by this development, I recognise that Twitter etc are privately-owned platforms. What I'm questioning isn't how set-up works but the morality and the feasibility of hugely-important communications infrastructure that are highly influential in politics being held in the hands of a few oligarchs who are accountable to nobody. The left should be interrogating and challenging that, not shrugging their shoulders and saying 'well that's the way it is'.

Jesus, we spend enough time booting the sh*theads of the Daily Mail and Murdoch media etc so I can't see why we don't extend that to social media barons.

As to the "possibilities for the future", they're exactly the same as they were before Trump got the ban hammer. Private companies will have the right to enforce their rules as they see fit.

Nothing's changed here.

Yep. And that's a bad situation that should be challenged. I don't believe in the rights of massive private corporations with huge societal and economic influence to do what they like, when they like. That's one of the reasons I'm a socialist.

FTA69 · 13-01-2021 2:15pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I'd say that the tech firms just didn't want to get involved. They knew they'd be vulnerable to the misplaced and disingenuous accusations of censorship we're seeing now. Of course, this was before the president tried to launch a coup so I think they knew their time of sitting on the sidelines was coming to an end even before that but this was the trigger.

A coup? Come off it mate.

What happened at the Capitol was a riot, and a nasty one too. But it wasn't a serious and credible attempt to seize the reigns of the state. If and when a coup takes place in the USA it's not going to be led by bison-shamans and people wearing Indian headdresses. If you want to see what an actual right-wing coup looks like, then have a look at what happened with Franco in Spain or Pinochet in Chile.

A protest, as aggressive and nasty as that was, does not equal a coup. I honestly think people *want* to believe that we're in 1933 Germany or something.

jimmycrackcorm · 13-01-2021 2:20pm

Silentcorner wrote: »

They acted in unison to get completely disable a competitor!!!! They did so with absolute confidence right in front of the world knowing they don't have to worry about the consequences as the political party they have supported are now in power.

This is unprecedented, at least now no one can deny who are behaving like fascists...

President tried to launch a coup?...with morons armed with cable ties? Honestly, if he was the fascist leader some radicals would have you believe he'd have been ballot stuffing last Nov through every means necessary undermining the legal vote...

They didn't act in unison. To suggest that you have to have some sort of proof that they collaborated. Reddit dumped the_donald last year, so it's not like it wasn't going to happen.

You have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to fascism. It's almost as if you're suggesting the internet is comprised only of the big social media giants and amazon. Trump could use the millions of dollars raised from scam court cases to start his own social media brand instead of pocketing the money himself. Servers aren't expensive and you don't need to use AWS either. You don't need the app or play store to install apps either.

It's very simple, when Trump sent his supporters, knowing well the type they are, with their zip ties into congress, then the desired outcome is very obvious. And no American company wants to be seen to support or be associated with that.

Even Deutsche bank don't want to be his banker - is that part of your fascist narrative?

Tony EH · 13-01-2021 2:23pm

FTA69 wrote: »

Loads of people I know involved in left politics are seal-clapping this decision unreservedly; from people in my own trade union to activists in Labour and others on the left. I've seen it repeated in my personal networks as well as being expressed on a wider scale across social media and the like. Numerous journalists in outlets like the Guardian and Novara Media etc were also trumpeting this, seemingly ignorant of the fact that this could well rebound on any left-wing challenge at some stage (and it already is, if you look at the examples I've given.)

Well, your experience has different to mine. I haven't seen anyone "seal clapping". The majority of people commenting on this situation have merely understood it and are, in the main, unsurprised by it.

When a guy uses a platform to actively spread lies and influence an armed mob into violent action where people die, it can hardly come as a surprise that that would lead to him being sanctioned by that platform.

There's really nothing beyond this here.

FTA69 wrote: »

I get that. I'm not shocked by this development, I recognise that Twitter etc are privately-owned platforms. What I'm questioning isn't how set-up works but the morality and the feasibility of hugely-important communications infrastructure that are highly influential in politics being held in the hands of a few oligarchs who are accountable to nobody. The left should be interrogating and challenging that, not shrugging their shoulders and saying 'well that's the way it is'.

They're doing that because that IS the way it is.

No amount of whinging is going to change that. And asking for government intervention is something that WOULD turn around and bite everyone eventually. Very bloody hard too.

To be honest, if I had my way, I would bar EVERY politician from using something like Twitter, because it is absolutely the worst platform for such a thing. Twitter is like opening a door and shouting some bullshit into a room and then buggering off.

It's one the absolute worst things on clear web and the sooner it goes the way of Bebo, the better.

Akesh · 13-01-2021 2:24pm

Tony EH wrote: »

:pac:

You do realise you're talking to a mod...

...that operates on a private message board...

...that has carded and banned people for breaking the rules of that private message board...

...about so called "censorship" on social media...

Talk about "irony".

I'm not sure what point you're making and I don't think you do either but I hope you're not comparing Boards.ie to Twitter as if they are one and the same.

Also, being a mod doesn't make you an authority on censorship.

Tony EH · 13-01-2021 2:31pm

I'm not going to try and make it any clearer for you.

Silentcorner · 13-01-2021 2:38pm

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

They didn't act in unison. To suggest that you have to have some sort of proof that they collaborated. Reddit dumped the_donald last year, so it's not like it wasn't going to happen.

You have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to fascism. It's almost as if you're suggesting the internet is comprised only of the big social media giants and amazon. Trump could use the millions of dollars raised from scam court cases to start his own social media brand instead of pocketing the money himself. Servers aren't expensive and you don't need to use AWS either. You don't need the app or play store to install apps either.

It's very simple, when Trump sent his supporters, knowing well the type they are, with their zip ties into congress, then the desired outcome is very obvious. And no American company wants to be seen to support or be associated with that.

Even Deutsche bank don't want to be his banker - is that part of your fascist narrative?

Google, Apple and Amazon all acted in unison to remove Parler....a platform no different to twitter, which is now down and most likely finished, so no, it is not possible to set up alternatives without the support of vital providers.

Twitter, Facebook have all been banning individuals and groups for wrong think...the Walkaway movement (an organic movement of traditional democrat voters walking away from the Democratic Party), completely non violent, for instance.

Youtube has been acting aggressively toward content creators for wrong think for some time now.

The tech companies, Facebook and Google do work in unison when it comes to policing their communication platforms.

Months of riots/murder/destruction/statue toppling went virtually unpunished only last summer...I don't remember anyone suggesting Twitter should be removed when those fascist like movements were wreaking havoc.

The city of Portland has witnessed months of riots, was twitter to blame for those?

Fascists use violent means to obtain their objectives, undermine culture and history intimidate their political opposition and vitally control media and the flow of information...with the consent of corporations whenever they are useful, often demanding quotas in private enterprises.

If it looks like a duck and talks like a duck....

MadYaker · 13-01-2021 2:49pm

Silentcorner wrote: »

Google, Apple and Amazon all acted in unison to remove Parler....a platform no different to twitter, which is now down and most likely finished, so no, it is not possible to set up alternatives without the support of vital providers.

Twitter, Facebook have all been banning individuals and groups for wrong think...the Walkaway movement (an organic movement of traditional democrat voters walking away from the Democratic Party), completely non violent, for instance.

Youtube has been acting aggressively toward content creators for wrong think for some time now.

The tech companies, Facebook and Google do work in unison when it comes to policing their communication platforms.

Months of riots/murder/destruction/statue toppling went virtually unpunished only last summer...I don't remember anyone suggesting Twitter should be removed when those fascist like movements were wreaking havoc.

The city of Portland has witnessed months of riots, was twitter to blame for those?

Fascists use violent means to obtain their objectives, undermine culture and history intimidate their political opposition and vitally control media and the flow of information...with the consent of corporations whenever they are useful, often demanding quotas in private enterprises.

If it looks like a duck and talks like a duck....

Trump violated the terms and conditions of Twitter on a weekly basis so following your line of logic he should have been banned but he wasn’t. Along with Facebook they have been enabling trump and his ilk for years by broadcasting the message even though it went against their terms of service. Your going to have a hard time trying to argue right wing bias here.

Dyr · 13-01-2021 2:56pm

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

You have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to fascism.

I have a feeling you don't.

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

It's almost as if you're suggesting the internet is comprised only of the big social media giants and amazon. Trump could use the millions of dollars raised from scam court cases to start his own social media brand instead of pocketing the money himself. Servers aren't expensive and you don't need to use AWS either. You don't need the app or play store to install apps either.

It's very simple, when Trump sent his supporters, knowing well the type they are, with their zip ties into congress, then the desired outcome is very obvious. And no American company wants to be seen to support or be associated with that.

Even Deutsche bank don't want to be his banker - is that part of your fascist narrative?

It's actually facsinating to see the levels of mental acrobatics people are willing to do to support big tech and those who control them. Five years down the line should be interesting to see how many will be embarrased by their carry on.

The Internet is now very much is the domain of the Social Media Giants, Amazon, Microsoft and Apple. If you find yourself being unpersoned by those corporations then your internet presence is untenable. Software cannot be sideloaded on iphones and can only be done with difficulty on the big Android flavours, 99.9% of phone users will never do it. To claim that being removed from the playstore and app store is not being removed from the phone eco system is Chemical Ali levels of guff.

And, of course, even if you do move to a non Azure or AWS provider.the mob will be after them to unperson you, as they will be to your bank, employer, investors and clients. We've already seen this being done to individuals, now its happening to groups and companies

What we are moving towards is a proxy social score system like China where organisations can only operate, and people can only exist, if they are in the good graces of Monopolies

WrenBoy · 13-01-2021 2:59pm

Rage with the machine !

Howard Beale · 13-01-2021 3:01pm

Not just Twitter.

You point out on this just how stupid and illogical and hypocritical the left actually is and watch them pile on top of you on this.

Look at the George Nkencho thread.
That was originally titled shop theif shot dead.
Now it's George Nkencho shooting.
Truth must be airbrushed to suit a leftie 'he is a victim of racism narrative'

Apparently the public must never ever know what happened and everything must be airbrushed to push a disgusting 'racist' bullshyt narrative when the dogs on the street know he was shot as he tried to take a Garda's head off with a massive knife.

rossie1977 · 13-01-2021 3:02pm

Silentcorner wrote: »

Google, Apple and Amazon all acted in unison to remove Parler....a platform no different to twitter, which is now down and most likely finished, so no, it is not possible to set up alternatives without the support of vital providers.

A platform no different to twitter is laughable.

Twitter has never been an echo chamber for extremism.

Parler was set up as a political stunt using Russian influences and money from Trumps friends.

Twitter, Facebook have all been banning individuals and groups for wrong think...the Walkaway movement (an organic movement of traditional democrat voters walking away from the Democratic Party), completely non violent, for instance.

So I googled 'walkway movement' and apparently it was pure astroturfing. To quote one source 'connected to Kremlin-linked Russian bots to manipulate voters into thinking the movement was more popular and active that it actually was'.

Youtube has been acting aggressively toward content creators for wrong think for some time now.

The tech companies, Facebook and Google do work in unison when it comes to policing their communication platforms.

YouTube, Facebook etc have enabled misinformation and content inciting violence for years. They failed to clean up and remove content when they should have.

Months of riots/murder/destruction/statue toppling went virtually unpunished only last summer...I don't remember anyone suggesting Twitter should be removed when those fascist like movements were wreaking havoc.

First things first I think you need to look up what 'fascism' means. BLM would be the antithesis of fascism.

Secondly did twitter play a role in enabling the violence? If you have proof then post it...

The city of Portland has witnessed months of riots, was twitter to blame for those?

No. Those that should take the blame are as follows
1. The police for their initial heavy handed approach using riot gear and rubber bullets, fireworks, tear gas to confront what started out as peaceful protests
2. Donald Trump for further ramping up hostilities with his rhetoric and then sending in his goon squad.
3. The extremists on the left and right that used the protests as an excuse to beat crap out of each other.

Fascists use violent means to obtain their objectives, undermine culture and history intimidate their political opposition and vitally control media and the flow of information...with the consent of corporations whenever they are useful, often demanding quotas in private enterprises.

If it looks like a duck and talks like a duck....

first bit not really true as there are 21st century fascists sitting in government around the world right now that didn't have to.

Silentcorner · 13-01-2021 3:04pm

MadYaker wrote: »

Trump violated the terms and conditions of Twitter on a weekly basis so following your line of logic he should have been banned but he wasn’t. Along with Facebook they have been enabling trump and his ilk for years by broadcasting the message even though it went against their terms of service. Your going to have a hard time trying to argue right wing bias here.

Twitter has long become a whip used to punish those who are guilty of wrong think, the amount of people who have lost jobs, positions, opportunities because they aren't in lock step with the ideological left over the last number of years is obvious for all to see...Trump was the first leader that used that misplaced power and harness it in a different manner, it meant he was always going to be punished at the first opportunity.

Twitter or Facebook did absolutely nothing to stop the spread of the now laughable suggestion that the 2016 election was stolen from Hillary...so they have being enabling all sorts of nonsense for some time now.

But the Walkaway movement, which involved hundreds of thousands of ordinary Americans sharing their motivations for walking away from the Democrat Party, often because they found the party to be completely unreasonable when it comes to particular opinions or differing opinions, acting more like a fascist party than the open party they once were.

What did the Walkaway movement do to justify this ban...wrong think.

Mike Murdock · 13-01-2021 3:10pm

rossie1977 wrote: »

First things first I think you need to look up what 'fascism' means. BLM would be the antithesis of fascism.

For sure

Fascists dress in black and go around telling people what to do, whereas... BLM...

More Drink!

Silentcorner · 13-01-2021 3:12pm

rossie1977 wrote: »

A platform no different to twitter is laughable.

Twitter has never been an echo chamber for extremism.

.

Ha ha haaaa...I'm sorry, that is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen on here, "twitter has never been an echo chamber for extremeism"...then to start waffling on about Russian money....honestly, there should be a limit on how much kool aid one person should consume.

The walkaway movement included hundreds of thousands of videos uploaded by individuals who shared their experiences...and you think it is Russian bots???

Andrew Yang recently mentioned on it...the Democratic Party has lost the respect of working Americans...it was those kinds of people who were posting videos of themselves, the big problem the Democrats now face is that they can't demonize every political rival, you only get away with that once!!!

rossie1977 · 13-01-2021 3:14pm

Walkway movement was about as legit as those hundreds of thousands of twitter sites praising China https://www.bbc.com/news/business-53018455

You only have to look at Democrats results in elections since Trump became president to know there isn't a big 'walkaway' movement happening.

Retr0gamer · 13-01-2021 3:20pm

Silentcorner wrote: »

Twitter has long become a whip used to punish those who are guilty of wrong think, the amount of people who have lost jobs, positions, opportunities because they aren't in lock step with the ideological left over the last number of years is obvious for all to see...Trump was the first leader that used that misplaced power and harness it in a different manner, it meant he was always going to be punished at the first opportunity.

There's a big difference between 'wrong think' and flagrant bigotry, racism and inciting violence.

A tenet of free speech is that you aren't protected no matter what you say, you still have to deal with the consequences which include getting kicked off the platform.

Also under free speech the platform owner does have the right to moderate what is on their platform as they are legally tied to it. Just because you have nonsense to spout doesn't mean people are obliged to give you a platform and have to listen to you. That's another tenet of free speech.

So seeing people being blocked and kicked off platforms like twitter isn't a violation of free speech but free speech working the way it should.

Mike Murdock · 13-01-2021 3:27pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

There's a big difference between 'wrong think' and flagrant bigotry, racism and inciting violence.

A tenet of free speech is that you aren't protected no matter what you say, you still have to deal with the consequences which include getting kicked off the platform.

Also under free speech the platform owner does have the right to moderate what is on their platform as they are legally tied to it. Just because you have nonsense to spout doesn't mean people are obliged to give you a platform and have to listen to you. That's another tenet of free speech.

So seeing people being blocked and kicked off platforms like twitter isn't a violation of free speech but free speech working the way it should.

People conflate Freedom of Speech with being able to say whatever you want with no consequences.

Silentcorner · 13-01-2021 3:34pm

rossie1977 wrote: »

Walkway movement was about as legit as those hundreds of thousands of twitter sites praising China https://www.bbc.com/news/business-53018455

You only have to look at Democrats results in elections since Trump became president to know there isn't a big 'walkaway' movement happening.

The walkaway movement began in 2018, just over 2 years ago...it took off in 2019 I believe just about the time the nonsense of that whole Russian Collusion hoax started to be exposed after the mid terms...

The Republicans had an excellent day on Nov 4th apart from the Presidential race...they will have their own internal battles to over come in the coming years, but the Democrats can't keep calling people nazi's or russian agents or white supremacists or whatever whilst simultaneously failing to hold the extreme and violent element of their own party support even with the support of the tech companies and corporate US.

Biden goes into office with a support that can and will turn on him very quickly, from all angles.

If you though the 2020 election was heated and divided, wait until the next one!!!

I've no idea why you posted a link about Chinese twitter accounts...it's got nothing to do with what we are discussing.

conorhal · 13-01-2021 3:41pm

FTA69 wrote: »

A coup? Come off it mate.

What happened at the Capitol was a riot, and a nasty one too. But it wasn't a serious and credible attempt to seize the reigns of the state. If and when a coup takes place in the USA it's not going to be led by bison-shamans and people wearing Indian headdresses. If you want to see what an actual right-wing coup looks like, then have a look at what happened with Franco in Spain or Pinochet in Chile.

A protest, as aggressive and nasty as that was, does not equal a coup. I honestly think people *want* to believe that we're in 1933 Germany or something.

It's quite bizarre to see everyone $h1t their pants and declare a load of boomers wandering around the halls of Congress, looking for all the world like a tour group that's lost its guide (and a handful of Q boomers to stupid not to front up to armed guards), constitutes
a coup.

Twitter's alleged bias towards left-wing trolls.

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