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Covid 19 Part XXXI-187,554 ROI (2,970 deaths) 100,319 NI (1,730 deaths)(24/01)Read OP

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  • #3602
    TonyMaloney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭TonyMaloney


    duffman13 wrote: »
    The sad reality is, I dont think there is one party that is anyway convincing to be deserving of a vote at this point in time. Country is a disaster zone politically

    I'm with you on this.

    I'd still like to hold this current shower to account for what they've done though. If they showed an ounce of contrition I might be able to stomach them, but they're deflecting blame and continuing to make awful moves (appointing Watt).

    I don't want to see a SF gov, but I can't look at these mendacious idiots without getting angry.

    paddypower reckons we'll see a GE this year - 15/8


  • #3603
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,756 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    seamus wrote: »
    Actually, that decision does not at all conflict with NPHET's advice.
    NPHET specifically noted that a "full" reopening of schools would present a significant risk.

    The letter is here; https://www.gov.ie/en/collection/ba4aa0-letters-from-the-cmo-to-the-minister-for-health/#january-2021

    The important part, which is highlighted in the letter too:

    While I think the decision about 6th year was stupid, it's clear that partially reopening a single class of students was not in any way in conflict with NPHET advice.

    And arguably one could say that NPHET implied - by using the phrase "full reopening" - that a partial reopening was allowable.

    It amuses me how many people are crucifying the Government for not following NPHET advice to the letter, while at the same time will refuse to accept NPHET's position on schools.

    when ideology takes hold


  • #3604
    brendanwalsh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 988 ✭✭✭brendanwalsh


    Beechwoodspark wrote: »
    Varadkar sniggering and laughing when told the Irish 14 day rate is the highest in the world at the moment.

    There’s something not right with this guy, have always thought it

    Anyone have a link to this clip.
    What a fcuking prrick


  • #3605
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    SheepsClothing wrote: »
    Unless Alan Kelly is lying about his conversation with Tony Holohan, how can you now say with any confidence that NPHET will be consulted and listened to regarding plans to reopen schools in February?
    I never said NPHET were consulted about the Leaving Cert plan specifically. And neither did anyone else.

    Alan Kelly was playing political games. He was trying to portray the Leaving Cert decision as a complete solo run with no reference to NPHET. When in fact it was a decision taken based on the advice that NPHET had given about schools.

    NPHET will continue to provide advice to the Government whether they seek it or not. It seems obvious at this point that the Government will be far too afraid of fvkcing things up to make any decisions that conflict with NPHET advice.


  • #3606
    titan18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,052 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    lawred2 wrote: »
    when ideology takes hold

    Not really for me, I'd be right of centre so nowhere close to a SF voter, but at the same time, elections are the only way for us to show dissatisfaction with the government. I likely would not vote SF in a general election but local or EU elections have zero effect so i'd easily vote them there to show FG and FG (and Greens who I wouldn't really vote for anyway either) that their performance, across a range of issues I give a crap about, isn't acceptable.

    For a general election, my vote doesn't matter, I'm in Cork South Central so have Martin, McGrath, Coveney and O'Laoghaire, I'd be pretty certain all 4 get in unless one of them fcuks up hugely.


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  • #3607
    titan18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,052 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    seamus wrote: »
    I never said NPHET were consulted about the Leaving Cert plan specifically. And neither did anyone else.

    Alan Kelly was playing political games. He was trying to portray the Leaving Cert decision as a complete solo run with no reference to NPHET. When in fact it was a decision taken based on the advice that NPHET had given about schools.

    NPHET will continue to provide advice to the Government whether they seek it or not. It seems obvious at this point that the Government will be far too afraid of fvkcing things up to make any decisions that conflict with NPHET advice.

    NPHET advised not to reopen hospitality at Christmas. What did the government do?


  • #3608
    gmisk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,484 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    I have given up watching the 6pm news on rte.
    I literally cannot stand the site of George Lee.
    Fergal Bowers on the 1 o clock is usually a lot more balanced actually looks at the figures.


  • #3609
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    titan18 wrote: »
    NPHET advised not to reopen hospitality at Christmas. What did the government do?
    And given everything that's happened since then, do you think they'll make that mistake again?


  • #3610
    Russman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,978 ✭✭✭Russman


    seamus wrote: »
    And given everything that's happened since then, do you think they'll make that mistake again?

    I reckon it depends. In the next month or so, no chance, but give it a bit longer and lobby groups will be back on the scene.


  • #3611
    TonyMaloney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭TonyMaloney


    seamus wrote: »
    And given everything that's happened since then, do you think they'll make that mistake again?

    Yes. I see no signs of contrition or learning from them.
    It wasn't the first time they ignored the expert advice and made us pay the consequences, and it's unlikely to be the last.


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  • #3612
    GeorgeBailey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭GeorgeBailey


    seamus wrote: »
    And given everything that's happened since then, do you think they'll make that mistake again?

    Given the amount of times they've tried to sidestep nphet advice do you genuinely think they won't do so again?


  • #3613
    titan18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,052 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    seamus wrote: »
    And given everything that's happened since then, do you think they'll make that mistake again?

    I mean, we also had the October incident where Holohan came back and advised level 5 only for them to reject it and end up doing it 2 weeks later anyway. They clearly didn't learn then so I've zero faith they'll learn now.


  • #3614
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,131 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    brendanwalsh wrote: »
    Anyone have a link to this clip.
    What a fcuking prrick

    Don't worry.

    It's not anything like the poster described.


  • #3615
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,248 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    GeorgeBailey wrote: »
    Given the amount of times they've tried to sidestep nphet advice do you genuinely think they won't do so again?

    https://m.independent.ie/news/taoiseach-not-ashamed-of-government-handling-of-covid-crisis-before-christmas-despite-highest-infection-rate-in-europe-39954862.html



    The Taoiseach still hasn’t accepted his own responsibility in the ****show now happening


  • #3616
    StevenToast
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,055 ✭✭✭StevenToast


    Where is the vintner federation/association?

    Havent heard them whinging in a while?

    "Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining." - Fletcher



  • #3617
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,756 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    titan18 wrote: »
    I mean, we also had the October incident where Holohan came back and advised level 5 only for them to reject it and end up doing it 2 weeks later anyway. They clearly didn't learn then so I've zero faith they'll learn now.

    yeah but hang on; wasn't that in the context of NPHET themselves changing their own recommendations from reduced to severe restrictions only a couple of day's apart


  • #3618
    GeorgeBailey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭GeorgeBailey


    StevenToast wrote: »
    Where is the vinter federation association?

    Havent heard them whinging in a while?

    They have to hold off until the numbers are low(ish) and they'll be back on the airwaves then demanding the science behind their closures.


  • #3619
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    lawred2 wrote: »
    yeah but hang on; wasn't that in the context of NPHET themselves changing their own recommendations from reduced to severe restrictions only a couple of day's apart
    2-3 days later.


  • #3620
    titan18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,052 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    lawred2 wrote: »
    yeah but hang on; wasn't that in the context of NPHET themselves changing their own recommendations from reduced to severe restrictions only a couple of day's apart

    I agree NPHET didn't handle that one rightly at all, but at the same time, if they changed their mind so quickly, I'd be more going sh1t what have they seen in those extra days rather than going ah hold on you told me it was grand a few days ago so nothing to see here.

    When it played out they were right, I'd definitely be listening to them 6 weeks later when they're telling you don't open hospitality, it won't go well.


  • #3621
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Yesterday heard Leo implying that his person opinion carried as much weight as NPHET on the Covid situation as he is a qualified doctor.


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  • #3622
    Happydays2020
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭Happydays2020


    titan18 wrote: »
    I agree NPHET didn't handle that one rightly at all, but at the same time, if they changed their mind so quickly, I'd be more going sh1t what have they seen in those extra days rather than going ah hold on you told me it was grand a few days ago so nothing to see here.

    When it played out they were right, I'd definitely be listening to them 6 weeks later when they're telling you don't open hospitality, it won't go well.

    If we could reverse time back there would have been a staggered reopening depending on numbers and trend. 1. Non-essential retail, 2. Limited home visits or very limited hospitality. The takeaway pints people should have been told that no hospitality would open if that carry on continued.

    But I also think that the mess with NPHET in early October caused a lot of these problems. That was handled badly in all sides and then there was an obsession with Christmas. It would also have been nice to know about that U.K. variant sooner - if we had then it would have been a useful driver. Like everything there is not just one bad decision but a sequence of poor decisions and actions.


  • #3623
    kilkenny31
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 701 ✭✭✭kilkenny31


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    https://m.independent.ie/news/taoiseach-not-ashamed-of-government-handling-of-covid-crisis-before-christmas-despite-highest-infection-rate-in-europe-39954862.html



    The Taoiseach still hasn’t accepted his own responsibility in the ****show now happening

    He's old school Finna Fail. Many of them still believe they have no responsibility for the financial crisis. How he got to be taoiseach I'll never know.


  • #3624
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    StevenToast wrote: »
    Where is the vinter federation association?

    Havent heard them whinging in a while?

    The Vintners association that people claim is so so strong, yet haven't managed to have their pubs open in Dublin once since March?

    Plenty whinging about them and their (unsuccessful) lobbying though


  • #3625
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    titan18 wrote: »
    I mean, we also had the October incident where Holohan came back and advised level 5 only for them to reject it and end up doing it 2 weeks later anyway. They clearly didn't learn then so I've zero faith they'll learn now.
    They got away with the October event though because there was no impact.

    And if you read some of the later NPHET letters, there's a tacit agreement from them that level 3 works fine.

    So they likely felt emboldened by the October event, not chastened.

    What's happened now is on another level. There is zero chance that they will diverge from NPHET advice between now and May, IMHO.


  • #3626
    TonyMaloney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭TonyMaloney


    seamus wrote: »
    They got away with the October event though because there was no impact.

    And if you read some of the later NPHET letters, there's a tacit agreement from them that level 3 works fine.

    So they likely felt emboldened by the October event, not chastened.

    What's happened now is on another level. There is zero chance that they will diverge from NPHET advice between now and May, IMHO.

    They appointed Mark Ferguson to change NPHET advice from within. They made this move knowing that they'd ****ed up big time by ignoring previous advice.

    I think there's every chance that this gov will **** it all up again. I think Varadkar's arrogance knows no bounds.


  • #3627
    c68zapdsm5i1ru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭c68zapdsm5i1ru


    Scuid Mhór wrote: »
    It’s going to be a rough few weeks. I don’t think people realise how close we are to the precipice of no return here.

    Approximately half of all new cases are the variant first announced in the UK a few weeks before Christmas. I hope all those selfish idiots who flew into Belfast Christmas week and then travelled across the border are proud of themselves.


  • #3628
    Sweet.Science
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭Sweet.Science


    seamus wrote: »
    They got away with the October event though because there was no impact.

    And if you read some of the later NPHET letters, there's a tacit agreement from them that level 3 works fine.

    So they likely felt emboldened by the October event, not chastened.

    What's happened now is on another level. There is zero chance that they will diverge from NPHET advice between now and May, IMHO.

    Do we really need NPHET advice at this stage ? The dog on the street knows lockdowns bring down cases and thus hospitalisations and deaths

    The easing of these restrictions increases them

    Hardly rocket science at this stage


  • #3629
    What Username Guidelines
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,139 ✭✭✭What Username Guidelines


    Sweet.Science wrote: »
    Do we really need NPHET advice at this stage ? The dog on the street knows lockdowns bring down cases and thus hospitalisations and deaths

    The easing of these restrictions increases them

    Hardly rocket science at this stage

    You'd be surprised at those who still believe otherwise.


  • #3630
    Datacore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 178 ✭✭Datacore


    This schools thing is both unrealistic and very unfair on teachers, students and parents.

    It’s not looking remotely realistic that they can or should open schools in February.

    Please, please stop setting expectations with hard dates for stuff like this. It creates false promises for some and is looking frighteningly reckless for others.

    Put a contingency in place now for the LC.

    The fact that there was a contingency for remote learning & continuous assessment built out by now is, in my view, negligence at worst and deluded optimism at best.


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  • #3631
    alentejo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 962 ✭✭✭alentejo


    Datacore wrote: »
    This schools thing is both unrealistic and very unfair on teachers, students and parents.

    It’s not looking remotely realistic that they can or should open schools in February.

    Please, please stop setting expectations with hard dates for stuff like this. It creates false promises for some and is looking frighteningly reckless for others.

    Put a contingency in place now for the LC.

    Lets wait and see how things are at the end of January.
    Covid will pass, education disruption by children will have long lasting impacts.


This discussion has been closed.
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