Trump v Biden 2020,The insurrection (pt 6) Read OP

duploelabs · 08-01-2021 01:11PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I've said it before, I would think there would be a very high prevalence of mental health problems in the Capitol Hill mob.

Having mental health issues doesn't mean you automatically suffer from cognitive dissonance, or at least lack of self awareness that you're being manipulated by the algorithm

Quin_Dub · 08-01-2021 01:14PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I've said it before, I would think there would be a very high prevalence of mental health problems in the Capitol Hill mob.

I'd disagree broadly speaking. It does a disservice to those with actual mental health concerns to give these people an "out" of poor mental health. for their actions.

They just think that the laws are different for them because they are "Real" Americans.

They genuinely see themselves as Patriots , standing up for what is right and that they are no different than George Washington et al.

It's cognitive dissonance and radicalisation that's the problem here , not mental health per se.

dwayneshintzy · 08-01-2021 01:16PM

robinph wrote: »

What parts of the above was it that Trump hasn't been doing for the last 4 years?

"persecution of conservatives" is the most laughable part. They're absolutely desperate to portray themselves as victims at all times.

Maxpfizer · 08-01-2021 01:16PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I've said it before, I would think there would be a very high prevalence of mental health problems in the Capitol Hill mob.

That might be true but it does not excuse their actions.

"It's a revolution!"
Well, you might be suffering from mental illness so carry on.

Anyone who's part of a mob attacking people or property is probably, at least temporarily, not in a sound frame of mind.

The issue would be identifying exactly what those mental health problems are and how they might be treated etc. A bit late for that after all the damage has been done of course.

yagan · 08-01-2021 01:17PM

Lets not forget that Trump called the heavily armed militia that stormed the Michigan state capital to protest Covid measures "good people".

Who'll be surprised if a few capital buildings in more gun friendly states are stormed and declared for Trump after Biden takes over. They've had their dry runs, so now it's only a matter of commitment and some extra planning.

FreudianSlippers · 08-01-2021 01:18PM

briany wrote: »

The only good impeaching Trump would do at this stage would be just a formal declaration that his nonsense isn't tolerated. But if you really want to go after Trump, there is plenty of evidence to get him on after he's out of office and no longer as protected, including being on tape asking for voter fraud be committed on his behalf.

Impeachment and conviction would prevent him from holding office again, so it's not pointless.

Snickers Man · 08-01-2021 01:18PM

Cork Hurling fan invades the Capitol Building!

_116385600_2021-01-07t065619z_780004832capitol-security.jpg

duploelabs · 08-01-2021 01:19PM

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Impeachment and conviction would prevent him from holding office again, so it's not pointless.

It would also remove the pardon power for crimes relating to the impeachment

Quin_Dub · 08-01-2021 01:20PM

Maxpfizer wrote: »

I agree that we all could have done better.

It's just wild to me that someone is actually pushing the idea that almost all of America's COVID deaths are directly the fault of Trump.

Off topic really but I just thought considering the the conversation that this take was also pretty out there.

Maybe just worth noting that the most rabid and passionate anti-Trumpers are themselves often guilty of Trump-esque exaggeration and hyperbole.

Of course the deaths are not all Trumps fault , mistakes have been made everywhere.

You can look at pretty much every public body in every country and identify mistakes and delays that have made things worse than they might have been.

However - Almost without exception no other group has expended more energy down-playing the virus , demonising those trying to help and generally lying through their teeth about the seriousness of the situation than Trump and the GOP.

They have consistently acted in bad faith in relation to COVID , lying and obfuscating and making decisions they believed were in THEIR best interests and not in the interests of Public Health/Safety.

THAT is the reason that Trump and the GOP should be held accountable.

FreudianSlippers · 08-01-2021 01:22PM

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I'd disagree broadly speaking. It does a disservice to those with actual mental health concerns to give these people an "out" of poor mental health. for their actions.

They just think that the laws are different for them because they are "Real" Americans.

They genuinely see themselves as Patriots , standing up for what is right and that they are no different than George Washington et al.

It's cognitive dissonance and radicalisation that's the problem here , not mental health per se.

A significant portion of them are quite uneducated, poor and looking for someone to blame. Why there are high-ranking former military, seated politicians and corporate lawyers there probably boils down to racism/anti-Semitism or one of the various other MAGA beliefs.

I would however suggest that those there because of Q conspiracy theories are likely there because of mental issues of one kind or another.

ohnonotgmail · 08-01-2021 01:24PM

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

A significant portion of them are quite uneducated, poor and looking for someone to blame. Why there are high-ranking former military, seated politicians and corporate lawyers there probably boils down to racism/anti-Semitism or one of the various other MAGA beliefs.

I would however suggest that those there because of Q conspiracy theories are likely there because of mental issues of one kind or another.

stupidity and gullibility are not mental health issues.

FreudianSlippers · 08-01-2021 01:26PM

duploelabs wrote: »

It would also remove the pardon power for crimes relating to the impeachment

He certainly cannot pardon himself from impeachment, but I'm not entirely sure he cannot still pardon others for crimes relating to the impeachment (as I said, I've not actually looked into that aspect in great detail so open to correction).

Obviously, if convicted, he'd not be able to pardon anyone, which would be amazing.

FreudianSlippers · 08-01-2021 01:26PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

stupidity and gullibility are not mental health issues.

Did I say they were?

duploelabs · 08-01-2021 01:27PM

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

A significant portion of them are quite uneducated, poor and looking for someone to blame. Why there are high-ranking former military, seated politicians and corporate lawyers there probably boils down to racism/anti-Semitism or one of the various other MAGA beliefs.

I would however suggest that those there because of Q conspiracy theories are likely there because of mental issues of one kind or another.

Again, I take umbrage with this. Radicalization from the algorithm would amount to a similar paranoia that someone who is suffering from mental health issues, but would not be the cause of their paranoia.

'Mental health issues' are the excuse used by fox when you've a lone shooter situation similar to the Vegas shooting happens

jill_valentine · 08-01-2021 01:29PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Given the tweets you quote, it was a clusterfcuk of a plan! They didn't even know they would be on camera!

He knew. He's wearing his real military identifiers, instead of the usual Gravy Seals airsoft patches. He may have expected to either succeed or die trying as a martyr - I believe he very much wanted to be identified either way. At least one of the few arrested was carrying nearly a week's worth of food. The Michigan capitol hostage plan involved executing people for days and then "nobody coming out alive".

Most of the other more organised paramilitary types though, were set apart specifically because they were very careful to wear masks compared to the shamblers, and used generic and commercially available clothes/ camo and equipment rather than distinct standard issues -

https://twitter.com/AmberD1116/status/1347077194217000962

Quin_Dub · 08-01-2021 01:30PM

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

A significant portion of them are quite uneducated, poor and looking for someone to blame. Why there are high-ranking former military, seated politicians and corporate lawyers there probably boils down to racism/anti-Semitism or one of the various other MAGA beliefs.

I would however suggest that those there because of Q conspiracy theories are likely there because of mental issues of one kind or another.

Don't disagree on that point - There are definitely people with mental health issues involved , but not all and not a majority by any means.

There is also a strong connection between devout religious adherence and the willingness to accept unfounded conspiracy theories etc.

When you've spent your entire life being told that the answer to any challenging or complex question is "Because it's Gods will" of course you are more likely to accept things without evidence.

That's how you've be trained all your life!

Professor Moriarty · 08-01-2021 01:30PM

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I'd disagree broadly speaking. It does a disservice to those with actual mental health concerns to give these people an "out" of poor mental health. for their actions.

They just think that the laws are different for them because they are "Real" Americans.

They genuinely see themselves as Patriots , standing up for what is right and that they are no different than George Washington et al.

It's cognitive dissonance and radicalisation that's the problem here , not mental health per se.

I would be very certain that there is high levels of mental health problems in that cohort. To say that does not do a "disservice" to other people with mental health problems. That's your extrapolation and it's not one that I would agree with. The reality is that people with severe and complex mental health problems are more vulnerable to manipulation. That's just an unfortunate fact.

yagan · 08-01-2021 01:33PM

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

A significant portion of them are quite uneducated, poor and looking for someone to blame. Why there are high-ranking former military, seated politicians and corporate lawyers there probably boils down to racism/anti-Semitism or one of the various other MAGA beliefs.

I would however suggest that those there because of Q conspiracy theories are likely there because of mental issues of one kind or another.

The mentally ill will melt away, they enjoyed the ride but will get in the way of the true believers, the ones who've been prepping since 9/11, the ones with the cable ties and improvised weapons in the senate.

Many will be ex military so they're already prepped for overthrowing government.

FreudianSlippers · 08-01-2021 01:35PM

duploelabs wrote: »

Again, I take umbrage with this. Radicalization from the algorithm would amount to a similar paranoia that someone who is suffering from mental health issues, but would not be the cause of their paranoia.

'Mental health issues' are the excuse used by fox when you've a lone shooter situation similar to the Vegas shooting happens

I can accept that, but would it be ok to say that they are perhaps suffering from mental health issues because of their constant exposure to Q and other conspiracy / radicalization sources?

For example, I would agree that a terrorist doesn't succumb to radicalization because they have mental health issues necessarily; but I would suggest that whilst they're carrying out the terrorist act they almost certainly aren't acting in a manner conducive to a healthy mental state of being.

ohnonotgmail · 08-01-2021 01:37PM

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Did I say they were?

I would however suggest that those there because of Q conspiracy theories are likely there because of mental issues of one kind or another.

I was disagreeing with this. these people are stupid and gullible not mentally ill.

FreudianSlippers · 08-01-2021 01:38PM

jill_valentine wrote: »

He knew. He's wearing his real military identifiers, instead of the usual Gravy Seals airsoft patches.

It's an American flag with a punisher skull on it. Unless I'm gravely mistaken I don't think that's a "real military identifier" and from what I've seen online, other than the hat from a coffee shop and tactical clothes that can be purchased online there are no other major identifiers.

I'm not saying he isn't military, but I don't think he's necessarily identifiable as such from this or the other picture.

FreudianSlippers · 08-01-2021 01:39PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I was disagreeing with this. these people are stupid and gullible not mentally ill.

But that's not what your post said, nor is it what mine said. So...

ohnonotgmail · 08-01-2021 01:41PM

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

But that's not what your post said, nor is it what mine said. So...

It is exactly what my post said. your lack of comprehension is your issue not mine.

FreudianSlippers · 08-01-2021 01:43PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

It is exactly what my post said. your lack of comprehension is your issue not mine.

Go back and read my post, perhaps slowly this time. I did not say that "stupidity and gullibility are [...] mental health issues."

astrofool · 08-01-2021 01:43PM

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I'd disagree broadly speaking. It does a disservice to those with actual mental health concerns to give these people an "out" of poor mental health. for their actions.

They just think that the laws are different for them because they are "Real" Americans.

They genuinely see themselves as Patriots , standing up for what is right and that they are no different than George Washington et al.

It's cognitive dissonance and radicalisation that's the problem here , not mental health per se.

Most of them will probably end up using mental health as part of their defence when charged.

donspeekinglesh · 08-01-2021 01:45PM

Cruz Stocky Steak wrote: »

Freedom of speech should not equate to being able to make threats under pseudonyms on the Internet or indeed without an alias.

The writing was on the wall on Parler and Twitter for what occurred on Wednesday. It was staring them in the face.

The Supreme Court has held that anonymous speech is largely protected by the first amendment.

Luckily for Parler users they had to hand over ID/SSN to sign up. :rolleyes:

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

He certainly cannot pardon himself from impeachment, but I'm not entirely sure he cannot still pardon others for crimes relating to the impeachment (as I said, I've not actually looked into that aspect in great detail so open to correction).

Obviously, if convicted, he'd not be able to pardon anyone, which would be amazing.

It's never been done before so there's no definitive answer, and while the courts lean toward reading the pardon power as being quite broad this might be too far.

astrofool · 08-01-2021 01:47PM

Maxpfizer wrote: »

It's just wild to me that someone is actually pushing the idea that almost all of America's COVID deaths are directly the fault of Trump.

I don't think anyone thinks that all the COVID deaths are down to him, however, it wouldn't be a stretch to say that at least 50% of them are down to the inept way his administration dealt with the pandemic when you see how other countries were able to deal with it much better (which is 2000 deaths per day at the moment).

FreudianSlippers · 08-01-2021 01:47PM

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Go back and read my post, perhaps slowly this time. I did not say that "stupidity and gullibility are [...] mental health issues."

Here. Since you seem to need this spoon-fed to you:

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

A significant portion of them are quite uneducated, poor and looking for someone to blame. Why there are high-ranking former military, seated politicians and corporate lawyers there probably boils down to racism/anti-Semitism or one of the various other MAGA beliefs.

Stupid, gullible. Not mental health-related.

I would however suggest that those there because of Q conspiracy theories are likely there because of mental issues of one kind or another.

Different statement. Unrelated to stupidity or gullibility.

jill_valentine · 08-01-2021 01:50PM

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

It's an American flag with a punisher skull on it. Unless I'm gravely mistaken I don't think that's a "real military identifier" and from what I've seen online, other than the hat from a coffee shop and tactical clothes that can be purchased online there are no other major identifiers.

I'm not saying he isn't military, but I don't think he's necessarily identifiable as such from this or the other picture.

Not that guy. That guy is very careful to hide his identity.

This guy -

https://mobile.twitter.com/jsrailton/status/1347279463088844800

is wearing his actual unit insignia and likely some of his actual service issue.

FreudianSlippers · 08-01-2021 01:50PM

astrofool wrote: »

Most of them will probably end up using mental health as part of their defence when charged.

Quite different legally on a Federal level than on a State level. I am not a Federal lawyer (nor am I a criminal lawyer tbf) but my understanding is that you'd have to have a good reason not to stand trial due to incapacity or enter a not guilty by reason of insanity plea. I don't think (open to correction based on caveat earlier) that you can mitigate your actions by way of mental health plea.

This would, I suggest, be particularly the case in light of Trump's executive order last July.

Trump v Biden 2020,The insurrection (pt 6) Read OP

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