Government flip flops / school closures

Newbie20 · 07-01-2021 8:16pm

Have the ASTI maybe jumped the gun on it? Like fair play to them for sticking up for us and I am a member. But I think that school wasn’t going to happen next week anyway with all the students and parents voicing their concerns. Did they fall into the trap set by the department?

TheValeyard · 07-01-2021 8:17pm

The tide has turned.

amacca · 07-01-2021 8:18pm

Dempo1 wrote: »

Norma take the fall? Surely you Jest, her best Buddy Meehole will protect her and besides she has a PhD in deflection

Probably not there yet but I believe she's the political equivalent of a firewall.....make a balls of this as they were always probably going to and reset with less damage after minister steps down when calls for it become rabid enough.....news cycle moves on to the next outrage fest in case the public gets too bored and switches off and they can charge the same for advertising.

It's the modus operandi.

Panga · 07-01-2021 8:18pm

lulublue22 wrote: »

anyone enlighten me who or what is the JMB ?

Joint Managerial Body for secondary schools principals & BOMs

TheValeyard · 07-01-2021 8:18pm

Newbie20 wrote: »

Have the ASTI maybe jumped the gun on it? Like fair play to them for sticking up for us and I am a member. But I think that school wasn’t going to happen next week anyway with all the students and parents voicing their concerns. Did they fall into the trap set by the department?

I'd say not. The wind was blowing very clearly against opening. Students planning protests, principals meeting to defey opening, parents against it.

Prisoner6409 · 07-01-2021 8:21pm

So while Nurses and Doctors stepped up to the plate since all this started, people working directly with Covid19 sufferers and people in retail ect also working, teachers as usual started moaning and in the end legged it even though they could easily protect themselves and students(mostly leaving cert) from transmission. Typical of teachers running to their Unions. if they do not turn up for work do not pay them.

2011abc · 07-01-2021 8:26pm

TheValeyard wrote: »

The tide has turned.

Again!?

ShamoBuc · 07-01-2021 8:29pm

Newbie20 wrote: »

Have the ASTI maybe jumped the gun on it? Like fair play to them for sticking up for us and I am a member. But I think that school wasn’t going to happen next week anyway with all the students and parents voicing their concerns. Did they fall into the trap set by the department?

I expected the Gov knew the reaction of the unions, hence why they didn't involve them in talks.
Now, they can put the blame on the unions and say it's their fault.

Wombatman · 07-01-2021 8:29pm

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1347262756974702595

Bobtheman · 07-01-2021 8:31pm

Prisoner6409 wrote: »

So while Nurses and Doctors stepped up to the plate since all this started, people working directly with Covid19 sufferers and people in retail ect also working, teachers as usual started moaning and in the end legged it even though they could easily protect themselves and students(mostly leaving cert) from transmission. Typical of teachers running to their Unions. if they do not turn up for work do not pay them.

Only a moron would compare teachers to nurses and doctors. Education can go ahead online with proper supports. If you are dying or very sick you Have to physically be seen to in a ward.

2011abc · 07-01-2021 8:31pm

The cynic is me now is thinking this was a deal between union/s and dept...The trouble with being constantly screwed is that you suspect EVERYTHING

Wombatman · 07-01-2021 8:33pm

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1347263090849624065

Bobtheman · 07-01-2021 8:35pm

ShamoBuc wrote: »

I expected the Gov knew the reaction of the unions, hence why they didn't involve them in talks.
Now, they can put the blame on the unions and say it's their fault.

No i think the unions got it right. I'm not a teacher who believes you should kneel at the altar of the media. Too often we want the love of a body that inately hate us. Parents don't. You win disputes by showing balls. Look at the cops. We would need longer but after a few weeks government would cave in. Thus we have a gradual decline in pay and conditions. A long dispute would stop the decline.

Panga · 07-01-2021 8:36pm

Maybe the cunning plan was to make teachers happy to do remote teaching. If so the plan has worked.

Smacruairi · 07-01-2021 8:39pm

Now the question is if creches are closed.... Our boss wants all classes at timetabled time, for those with kids under 2 this is practically impossible. That's the real fun.

amacca · 07-01-2021 8:41pm

Panga wrote: »

Maybe the cunning plan was to make teachers happy to do remote teaching. If so the plan has worked.

No the cunning plan was always optics......they want it to look like they give a **** and tried but but the big bad unions etc

They got their way and a large percentage of your fellow citizens/gob****es will lap up the anti union/teacher sentiment they tried to stoke as cover....and if that gambit doesn't work it's bye bye Norma to replaced with another "minister" for education and move on to slithering put of responsibility if/when they make a balls of vaccinations etc

Str8outtaWuhan · 07-01-2021 8:43pm

2011abc wrote: »

The cynic is me now is thinking this was a deal between union/s and dept...The trouble with being constantly screwed is that you suspect EVERYTHING

I have a funny feeling secondary teachers will be working in June, Norma will get her pound of flesh.

amacca · 07-01-2021 8:45pm

Smacruairi wrote: »

Now the question is if creches are closed.... Our boss wants all classes at timetabled time, for those with kids under 2 this is practically impossible. That's the real fun.

In my ohs school after a couple of weeks of that the Students came back overwhelmingly citing stress and tteachers needed to ease off with the amount of contact /workload/expectations :pac:

Panicked parent · 07-01-2021 8:45pm

Bobtheman wrote: »

No i think the unions got it right. I'm not a teacher who believes you should kneel at the altar of the media. Too often we want the love of a body that inately hate us. Parents don't. You win disputes by showing balls. Look at the cops. We would need longer but after a few weeks government would cave in. Thus we have a gradual decline in pay and conditions. A long dispute would stop the decline.

So can can proper supports be given to child in special schools and units by a zoom call. Of course not.Their abandonment will be shameful.

ShamoBuc · 07-01-2021 8:46pm

Bobtheman wrote: »

No i think the unions got it right. I'm not a teacher who believes you should kneel at the altar of the media. Too often we want the love of a body that inately hate us. Parents don't. You win disputes by showing balls. Look at the cops. We would need longer but after a few weeks government would cave in. Thus we have a gradual decline in pay and conditions. A long dispute would stop the decline.

I too think the unions got it right. But the Gov can now proportion blame on them. The LC last year was an absolute clusterfúck. Gov are stockpiling blame in case things get messed up more for June.

amacca · 07-01-2021 8:46pm

Str8outtaWuhan wrote: »

I have a funny feeling secondary teachers will be working in June, Norma will get her pound of flesh.

Then the question arises why have online now I suppose.

djemba djemba · 07-01-2021 8:48pm

Time to resign minister

RTE news : Govt abandons plans for Leaving Cert students

http://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0107/1188191-leaving-cert-reaction/

No word On SEN though

Wombatman · 07-01-2021 8:49pm

The probability that Norma is involved in any Machiavellianism is quite low. Abject incompetence much more likely IMHO.

Panga · 07-01-2021 8:51pm

amacca wrote: »

In my ohs school after a couple of weeks of that the Students came back overwhelmingly citing stress and tteachers needed to ease off with the amount of contact /workload/expectations :pac:

We has the same experience with our students. They were so stressed with workload that management had to agree to reduce the amount of contact time we had.

amacca · 07-01-2021 8:51pm

Wombatman wrote: »

The probability that Norma is involved in any Machiavellianism is quite low. Abject incompetence much more likely IMHO.

I doubt she planned it myself....shes an order taker not a giver.

Think about the sequence of events and tell me govt didn't deliberately try to get this outcome.

Panga · 07-01-2021 8:52pm

djemba djemba wrote: »

Time to resign minister

RTE news : Govt abandons plans for Leaving Cert students

http://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0107/1188191-leaving-cert-reaction/

No word On SEN though

This is all on Michael Martin. He should resign. Shame on him.

History Queen · 07-01-2021 8:54pm

Panicked parent wrote: »

So can can proper supports be given to child in special schools and units by a zoom call. Of course not.Their abandonment will be shameful.

Are sen classes definitely not opening? I haven't heard one way or the other

Bananaleaf · 07-01-2021 8:59pm

ShamoBuc wrote: »

I too think the unions got it right. But the Gov can now proportion blame on them. The LC last year was an absolute clusterfúck. Gov are stockpiling blame in case things get messed up more for June.

Being honest I couldn't give a rats who they blame. They can blame me personally if they want. Everyone is a lot safer tonight because of this decision, even those who are convinced it doesn't affect them. The govt would not have backed down as quick if they thought their plan was legitimate.

Panicked parent · 07-01-2021 8:59pm

History Queen wrote: »

Are sen classes definitely not opening? I haven't heard one way or the other

I really hope a way will be found. These children have lost so much already in the earlier closure. Vaccinate the teachers and snas immediately so they can remain open

jamesbondings · 07-01-2021 9:00pm

History Queen wrote: »

Are sen classes definitely not opening? I haven't heard one way or the other

My partner is a SEN teacher, and without going into specifics the hse just sent out an internal directive saying that a person who is (enter description here) is now deemed very high risk and is not to return to work (a friend sent it onto me as it describes my partner at the moment). This directive is obviously not for schools however, if she worked in the Hse she is deemed very high risk, but because she works for the department of education she is not and is expected into work (as of now of course). She wants to go back of course, I don't want her to though.

Bananaleaf · 07-01-2021 9:02pm

History Queen wrote: »

Are sen classes definitely not opening? I haven't heard one way or the other

Awaiting clarification on this. Did I make this up or is there a meeting about that tomorrow? That could just be in my own school - have digested so much news today my head is spinning.

ShamoBuc · 07-01-2021 9:07pm

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Awaiting clarification on this. Did I make this up or is there a meeting about that tomorrow? That could just be in my own school - have digested so much news today my head is spinning.

The INTO understands plans to reopen special schools next week have been cancelled.

Bananaleaf · 07-01-2021 9:08pm

Panicked parent wrote: »

I don’t share your glee

Glee is not an accurate word to describe how I feel. I'm sorry you are disappointed, I assume that is because you are a parent of a LC student.

I am a teacher of English and MFL, if you need help in these areas, please send me a PM. If I can help, I will.

I am relieved that I will be able to stay safe and continue to do my job at the same time, but I also acknowledge and am sorry that you are upset by the most recent announcement

Bananaleaf · 07-01-2021 9:11pm

ShamoBuc wrote: »

The INTO understands plans to reopen special schools next week have been cancelled.

Oh. We have heard nothing about this yet. Will dig around and see what I can find out

ShamoBuc · 07-01-2021 9:13pm

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Oh. We have heard nothing about this yet. Will dig around and see what I can find out

Definitely not opening next week.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1347273228595716104?s=20

History Queen · 07-01-2021 9:20pm

jamesbondings wrote: »

My partner is a SEN teacher, and without going into specifics the hse just sent out an internal directive saying that a person who is (enter description here) is now deemed very high risk and is not to return to work (a friend sent it onto me as it describes my partner at the moment). This directive is obviously not for schools however, if she worked in the Hse she is deemed very high risk, but because she works for the department of education she is not and is expected into work (as of now of course). She wants to go back of course, I don't want her to though.

That isn't good enough. Get her to go to her union. Wishing you both the best.

Bobtheman · 07-01-2021 9:20pm

Panicked parent wrote: »

So can can proper supports be given to child in special schools and units by a zoom call. Of course not.Their abandonment will be shameful.

I appreciate your concern but what is your solution?If your child's teacher has no childcare himself or herself? If they fear for their health?

Bananaleaf · 07-01-2021 9:22pm

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Definitely not opening next week.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1347273228595716104?s=20

Is this just at primary level?

Jesus - they can't even row back with clarity

Bobtheman · 07-01-2021 9:23pm

Let's all remember that most situations can be improved. Death can't
However lots of patients being delayed getting routine treatment even radiotherapy.
Treatment that will cause death. Its delay.

tayto lover · 07-01-2021 9:24pm

Closing all schools completely was the only safe and sane decision.
Crazy that they couldn’t see that before tonight.

Rosita · 07-01-2021 9:26pm

[QUOTE=amacca;115843120

Think about the sequence of events and tell me govt didn't deliberately try to get this outcome.[/QUOTE]

If they did I think they were foolish, which in fairness doesn't make it less likely.

It was issue not about pay; the government was clearly ignoring the crazy rate of infection transmission; was clearly going against the advice they are giving to anyone else who can work from home; and even Principals and Students were up in arms.

If this is some kind 'you have us exactly where we want you' victory for the government they are even more out of touch than I thought.

ShamoBuc · 07-01-2021 9:26pm

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Is this just at primary level?

Jesus - they can't even row back with clarity

INTO are only primary.

However, SNA's probably wont be allowed in either as their union Forsa are looking for a pause for next week.

gaiscioch · 07-01-2021 9:27pm

If they're going to cancel the LC again, it would be preferable if they did it now. I suppose they must carry on with another few months of sham "The LC will definitely be on" before they cancel it, wasting everybody's time and energy in the process.

Logically, if the reason they cancelled last year was because it was unfair to so many students who hadn't access to the relevant technology, etc, the reality this year isn't too different for the kids from the same poor areas or isolated/poor broadband areas. I feel like I'll be wasting everybody's time with my 6th years after this.

km79 · 07-01-2021 9:29pm

The worst thing about this is all the time that could have been used to prepare further for remote learning has been wasted on pointless exercises such as rejigging timetables etc etc
And all the unnecessary stress

Rosita · 07-01-2021 9:30pm

gaiscioch wrote: »

If they're now going to cancel the LC, it would be preferable if they did it now. I suppose they must carry on with another few months of sham "The LC will definitely be on" before they cancel it, wasting everybody's time and energy in the process.

Logically, if the reason they cancelled last year was because it was unfair to so many students who hadn't access to the relevant technology, etc, the reality this year isn't too different for the kids from the same poor areas or isolated/poor broadband area. I feel like I'll be wasting everybody's time with my 6th years after this.

They will want to avoid cancelling it until students have chosen their levels. But given the horrendous level of infection about at the moment and an R rate between 2.4 and 3 there is no guarantee that we will be in school anytime soon so even the box-ticking exercises mightn't happen.

km79 · 07-01-2021 9:30pm

gaiscioch wrote: »

If they're going to cancel the LC again, it would be preferable if they did it now. I suppose they must carry on with another few months of sham "The LC will definitely be on" before they cancel it, wasting everybody's time and energy in the process.

Logically, if the reason they cancelled last year was because it was unfair to so many students who hadn't access to the relevant technology, etc, the reality this year isn't too different for the kids from the same poor areas or isolated/poor broadband areas. I feel like I'll be wasting everybody's time with my 6th years after this.

It’s a dead duck now imo
As for the JC ......

TheValeyard · 07-01-2021 9:30pm

For perfectly selfish reasons I hope creches stay open. Teaching with two kids under four is a nightmare scenario.

Treppen · 07-01-2021 9:30pm

Norma on RTE at 9:30

Now the issue of LEaving Cert, Special Schools and online learning is to the fore.

2011abc · 07-01-2021 9:33pm

gaiscioch wrote: »

If they're going to cancel the LC again, it would be preferable if they did it now. I suppose they must carry on with another few months of sham "The LC will definitely be on" before they cancel it, wasting everybody's time and energy in the process.

Logically, if the reason they cancelled last year was because it was unfair to so many students who hadn't access to the relevant technology, etc, the reality this year isn't too different for the kids from the same poor areas or isolated/poor broadband areas. I feel like I'll be wasting everybody's time with my 6th years after this.

Just imagine being a lazy but 'bright' Sixth Year (a very common beast)who has only had three months this year and four or five last year to 'impress' their teacher.There will be some Herculean work done 'online' in next few weeks by these lads !

Smacruairi · 07-01-2021 9:41pm

Panicked parent wrote: »

So can can proper supports be given to child in special schools and units by a zoom call. Of course not.Their abandonment will be shameful.

Email josepha Madigan. She said extra supports will be made available to you. If she doesn't give you specifics, she is lying to you, take it to the media.

Government flip flops / school closures

Comments