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Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

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Comments

  • #8462
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,411 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Rjd2 wrote: »
    The police aren't perfect obviously, but their slow response is more due to Trump's cronies deliberately hamstringing them today.

    Guarantee he held back as much resources as he could via his cronies in whatever department.


  • #8463
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,915 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Christy42 wrote: »
    This is delusional. They stormed government buildings to the point where elected officials had to go into hiding for their own safety. They have been vocal at wanting to change the election result, which would be fine if they were outside.

    Again. Whether or not they are successful is irrelevant for their status as terrorists. They are using the threat of violence to try and change the results. That they will fail does not change the intent.

    If someone scales the White House fence, even with an ideological motive the President is locked down for his own protection. Is does that make the person in question a terrorist?

    Of all the countries in the world, one would have thought that Irish people would be particularly careful about the random use of the word "terrorism".

    I am not being inconsistent here. Do an advanced search on Boards for "terrorism", filter to those uses posted by me. I have always been very narrow in my application of the term, because I believe that terrorism is a very particular and reprehensible action. Calling any violence terrorism is to demean actual terrorism such as Ireland suffered for decades. Similarly, I have never used "terrorism" to describe any of the incidents of violence the US has seen over the last year involving mass numbers of people causing destruction and damage.

    Examples, to save you time: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64551485&postcount=15
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=100520468&postcount=524
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104853108&postcount=558
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=73485155&postcount=1282
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=100011675&postcount=425
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68051218&postcount=532
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=113624327
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=84787322&postcount=97


  • #8464
    paul71
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭paul71


    irishrover99 wrote: »
    The policing has been unbelievably slow today. Really reminds you of the chaos on 9/11(obviously without all the deaths) but serious review will be needed after this.

    I agree with the poor policing, I also agree that a review will need to happen. I simply do not understand the comparison to 9/11?


  • #8465
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,411 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    If someone scales the White House fence, even with an ideological motive the President is locked down for his own protection. Is does that make the person in question a terrorist?

    Of all the countries in the world, one would have thought that Irish people would be particularly careful about the random use of the word "terrorism".

    I am not being inconsistent here. Do an advanced search on Boards for "terrorism", filter to those uses posted by me. I have always been very narrow in my application of the term, because I believe that terrorism is a very particular and reprehensible action. Calling any violence terrorism is to demean actual terrorism such as Ireland suffered for decades. Similarly, I have never used "terrorism" to describe any of the incidents of violence the US has seen over the last year involving mass numbers of people causing destruction and damage.

    Examples, to save you time: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64551485&postcount=15
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=100520468&postcount=524
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104853108&postcount=558
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=73485155&postcount=1282
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=100011675&postcount=425
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68051218&postcount=532
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=113624327
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=84787322&postcount=97

    But a pipe bomb was planted outside the RNC though..


  • #8466
    uptherebels
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,082 ✭✭✭uptherebels


    Tpcl20 wrote: »
    Police let protestors in.

    https://twitter.com/anastasiakeeley/status/1346934751018541057?s=20

    problem is, there are already protestors behind them, so is it letting them in or moving back to their colleagues.


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  • #8467
    Kiith
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 23,435 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kiith


    Pence changed his Twitter profile pic to Biden and Harris and unfollowed Trump :P

    https://twitter.com/Mike_Pence


  • #8468
    Tpcl20
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 293 ✭✭Tpcl20


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    If someone scales the White House fence, even with an ideological motive the President is locked down for his own protection. Is does that make the person in question a terrorist?

    Of all the countries in the world, one would have thought that Irish people would be particularly careful about the random use of the word "terrorism".

    I am not being inconsistent here. Do an advanced search on Boards for "terrorism", filter to those uses posted by me. I have always been very narrow in my application of the term, because I believe that terrorism is a very particular and reprehensible action. Calling any violence terrorism is to demean actual terrorism such as Ireland suffered for decades. Similarly, I have never used "terrorism" to describe any of the incidents of violence the US has seen over the last year involving mass numbers of people causing destruction and damage.

    Examples, to save you time: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64551485&postcount=15
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=100520468&postcount=524
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104853108&postcount=558
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=73485155&postcount=1282
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=100011675&postcount=425
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68051218&postcount=532
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=113624327
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=84787322&postcount=97
    Manic Moran wrote: »
    Umm.. Yes it does. Though there is no set accepted definition for terrorism in international law, the legal definition in the US is pretty good and shares characteristics with most international attempts at defining it. "the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives"

    It is the motive which differentiates terrorism from "common" crime.
    That's what's happening.


  • #8469
    uptherebels
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,082 ✭✭✭uptherebels


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    If someone scales the White House fence, even with an ideological motive the President is locked down for his own protection. Is does that make the person in question a terrorist?

    Of all the countries in the world, one would have thought that Irish people would be particularly careful about the random use of the word "terrorism".

    I am not being inconsistent here. Do an advanced search on Boards for "terrorism", filter to those uses posted by me. I have always been very narrow in my application of the term, because I believe that terrorism is a very particular and reprehensible action. Calling any violence terrorism is to demean actual terrorism such as Ireland suffered for decades. Similarly, I have never used "terrorism" to describe any of the incidents of violence the US has seen over the last year involving mass numbers of people causing destruction and damage.

    if only one loon had tried to scale a wall today, then your comparison would have some validity.


  • #8470
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,862 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Kiith wrote: »
    Pence changed his Twitter profile pic to Biden and Harris and unfollowed Trump :P

    https://twitter.com/Mike_Pence

    I think that's Pence and his Mrs


  • #8471
    dogbert27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,463 ✭✭✭dogbert27


    listermint wrote: »
    But a pipe bomb was planted outside the RNC though..

    Yeah but maybe the intent was not to detonate it so it's not terrorism just a protest bomb :D


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  • #8472
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,915 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    listermint wrote: »
    But a pipe bomb was planted outside the RNC though..

    That would be a different matter, and would count.
    . Now here's a fun scenario for you; replace the Trump supporters with Muslims with long beards; how do you think that would have been called in the news if they did exactly the same thing as the Trump supporters are doing currently? Would that then be considered terrorism or would it be misguided protestors? And do you think there would be as many people hurt and killed as now?

    If they did, I would object. I have objected in the past to the news calling other things "terrorism", and if they were to do so here, I would similarly say that the news are being overly dramatic. If all it takes is a large group of people being destructive and acting illegally in order to influence a political outcome to be called terrorism, then a number of the BLM riots would count. I disagree with that conclusion.


  • #8473
    Christy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,106 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    If someone scales the White House fence, even with an ideological motive the President is locked down for his own protection. Is does that make the person in question a terrorist?

    Of all the countries in the world, one would have thought that Irish people would be particularly careful about the random use of the word "terrorism".

    I am not being inconsistent here. Do an advanced search on Boards for "terrorism", filter to those uses posted by me. I have always been very narrow in my application of the term, because I believe that terrorism is a very particular and reprehensible action. Calling any violence terrorism is to demean actual terrorism such as Ireland suffered for decades. Similarly, I have never used "terrorism" to describe any of the incidents of violence the US has seen over the last year involving mass numbers of people causing destruction and damage.

    Examples, to save you time: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64551485&postcount=15
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=100520468&postcount=524
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104853108&postcount=558
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=73485155&postcount=1282
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=100011675&postcount=425
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68051218&postcount=532
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=113624327
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=84787322&postcount=97

    How was the pipe bomb different from Omagh? Aside from the fact that they found the pipe bomb on time? They have been very clear from the start that taking over the Capitol buildings is politically motivated. It is a large mob that attacked police barricades. Short of leaving a senator out to dry you won't get complete proof but at a certain point common sense needs to take over.


  • #8474
    dogbert27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,463 ✭✭✭dogbert27


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    I think that's Pence and his Mrs

    Yeah you're right


  • #8475
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,385 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    I've read some stuff that stretched your credibility over the years Manic, but you've really gone all in for it tonight.


  • #8476
    Rjd2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,270 ✭✭✭✭Rjd2


    listermint wrote: »
    Guarantee he held back as much resources as he could via his cronies in whatever department.

    Yep.

    Their is so much wrong with the police in America its unreal, but not sure today is on them especially the normal cops.

    However looking at some of the viral clips, memes etc, they are going to cop a lot of flack which is unfair.

    I think long term going forward any prominent politician who has even remotely annoyed Trump over last few years will need a very strong security detail especially the older politicians like Mitch, Pelosi etc.

    I'm not suggesting Trump is going to put bounties on their heads or anything like that, but he has supporters who are mentally ill and want to commit acts of serious violence.

    Christ imagine typing about an Irish politician. :eek:


  • #8477
    briany
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,057 ✭✭✭✭briany


    SNIP. No more nonsense please.


  • #8478
    rosser44
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 571 ✭✭✭rosser44


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    If someone scales the White House fence, even with an ideological motive the President is locked down for his own protection. Is does that make the person in question a terrorist?

    Of all the countries in the world, one would have thought that Irish people would be particularly careful about the random use of the word "terrorism".

    I am not being inconsistent here. Do an advanced search on Boards for "terrorism", filter to those uses posted by me. I have always been very narrow in my application of the term, because I believe that terrorism is a very particular and reprehensible action. Calling any violence terrorism is to demean actual terrorism such as Ireland suffered for decades. Similarly, I have never used "terrorism" to describe any of the incidents of violence the US has seen over the last year involving mass numbers of people causing destruction and damage.

    Examples, to save you time: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64551485&postcount=15
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=100520468&postcount=524
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104853108&postcount=558
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=73485155&postcount=1282
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=100011675&postcount=425
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68051218&postcount=532
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=113624327
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=84787322&postcount=97



    They planted explosives in the heart of the US government Manic, they are terrorists.


  • #8479
    theguzman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭theguzman


    Will Twitter wait until the inauguration or until after for to ban Trump?


  • #8480
    Malakai High Leotard
    Posts: 7,272 ✭✭✭ Malakai High Leotard


    Disgraceful scenes from The Capitol. American citizens turned domestic terrorist. The exact thing they “fear” so much it’s used as an excuse for why them pesky immigrants shouldn’t be allowed in cos god knows what kinda people they could be!

    Just have a look at the rest of the world and their responses. I mean government officials from Turkey are asking them to go home!


  • #8481
    Lirange
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,120 ✭✭✭Lirange


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    If someone scales the White House fence, even with an ideological motive the President is locked down for his own protection. Is does that make the person in question a terrorist?

    Of all the countries in the world, one would have thought that Irish people would be particularly careful about the random use of the word "terrorism".

    I am not being inconsistent here. Do an advanced search on Boards for "terrorism", filter to those uses posted by me. I have always been very narrow in my application of the term, because I believe that terrorism is a very particular and reprehensible action. Calling any violence terrorism is to demean actual terrorism such as Ireland suffered for decades. Similarly, I have never used "terrorism" to describe any of the incidents of violence the US has seen over the last year involving mass numbers of people causing destruction and damage.

    Examples, to save you time: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64551485&postcount=15
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=100520468&postcount=524
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104853108&postcount=558
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=73485155&postcount=1282
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=100011675&postcount=425
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68051218&postcount=532
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=113624327
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=84787322&postcount=97

    Bombs have been disabled (2 confirmed, one at RNC & another within capitol complex). They are looking for more. Not fake bombs. Actual bombs. Even by your own narrow criteria that is terrorism. Full stop.


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  • #8482
    froog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭froog


    theguzman wrote: »
    Will Twitter wait until the inauguration or until after for to ban Trump?

    they have to ban him. every tweet now will be inciting violence.


  • #8483
    Christy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,106 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Lirange wrote: »
    Bombs have been disabled (2 confirmed at RNC & another within capitol complex). They are looking for more. Not fake bombs. Actual bombs. Even by your own narrow criteria that is terrorism. Full stop.

    Links? I know of one in the RNC but can't see news on the other 1.


  • #8484
    Malakai High Leotard
    Posts: 7,272 ✭✭✭ Malakai High Leotard


    Lirange wrote: »
    Bombs have been disabled (2 confirmed at RNC & another within capitol complex). They are looking for more. Not fake bombs. Actual bombs. Even by your own narrow criteria that is terrorism. Full stop.

    Imagine marching to “Save America” & decide the most efficient way; bombing The Capitol building. This is absolutely domestic terrorism.


  • #8485
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,153 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Rjd2 wrote: »
    Yep.

    Their is so much wrong with the police in America its unreal, but not sure today is on them especially the normal cops.

    However looking at some of the viral clips, memes etc, they are going to cop a lot of flack which is unfair.

    I think long term going forward any prominent politician who has even remotely annoyed Trump over last few years will need a very strong security detail especially the older politicians like Mitch, Pelosi etc.

    I'm not suggesting Trump is going to put bounties on their heads or anything like that, but he has supporters who are mentally ill and want to commit acts of serious violence.

    Christ imagine typing about an Irish politician. :eek:

    The capitol police were sitting ducks it seems because the mayor of DC asked for the DC national guard to be activated, but the DC national guard isn't like others because DC isn’t a state so no governor to order this. It goes through either the DOJ or DOD and it seems they didn’t agree to the request.

    And the fact that any politician as you say RJD2 may need extra security is sad.


  • #8486
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,153 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Christy42 wrote: »
    Links? I know of one in the RNC but can't see news on the other 2.

    ABC reported on one at the RNC and several other places have confirmed there was one in the capital building itself.


  • #8487
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,915 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Christy42 wrote: »
    How was the pipe bomb different from Omagh? Aside from the fact that they found the pipe bomb on time?

    It's not. And that action I have no quarrel with being considered a terroristic act.

    You are all making it sound like this is the first time an angry crowd has illegally crashed a legislative body because they don't like something. Unless you consider all such occasions to be domestic terrorism, I guess.

    What if the violence was, instead, caused by the politicians themselves? The Italian parliament would be a veritable den of domestic terrorism!
    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    The capitol police were sitting ducks it seems because the mayor of DC asked for the DC national guard to be activated, but the DC national guard isn't like others because DC isn’t a state so no governor to order this. It goes through either the DOJ or DOD and it seems they didn’t agree to the request.

    As I posted earlier, they did. https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/04/politics/muriel-bowser-dc-national-guard-protests/index.html
    They planted explosives in the heart of the US government Manic, they are terrorists.

    Who is "they"? By that logic, everyone partaking in BLM protests is a destructive criminal, because of a few folks.


  • #8488
    Christy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,106 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    It's not. And that action I have no quarrel with being considered a terroristic act.

    You are all making it sound like this is the first time an angry crowd has illegally crashed a legislative body because they don't like something. Unless you consider all such occasions to be domestic terrorism, I guess.

    What if the violence was, instead, caused by the politicians themselves? The Italian parliament would be a veritable den of domestic terrorism!



    As I posted earlier, they did. https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/04/politics/muriel-bowser-dc-national-guard-protests/index.html

    You are still comparing with events that are no where near as comparable. You can see that these events are not the same as the running of the Italian parliament right? Like not in the same stratosphere.


  • #8489
    Lirange
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,120 ✭✭✭Lirange


    Christy42 wrote: »
    Links? I know of one in the RNC but can't see news on the other 1.

    https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/congress-electoral-college-vote-count-2021/h_a8427f16f5c09d46e0dcff011e3d48c0

    1 hr ago
    At least two real explosive devices in DC rendered safe by law enforcement
    From CNN's Pervaiz Shallwani

    At least two suspected pipe bombs have been rendered safe by law enforcement — one at a building that houses Republican National Committee offices and one in the US Capitol complex, a federal law enforcement official tells CNN

    The official said these were real explosive devices and they were blown up to be rendered safe.


  • #8490
    rosser44
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 571 ✭✭✭rosser44


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    It's not. And that action I have no quarrel with being considered a terroristic act.

    You are all making it sound like this is the first time an angry crowd has illegally crashed a legislative body because they don't like something. Unless you consider all such occasions to be domestic terrorism, I guess.

    What if the violence was, instead, caused by the politicians themselves? The Italian parliament would be a veritable den of domestic terrorism!



    As I posted earlier, they did. https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/04/politics/muriel-bowser-dc-national-guard-protests/index.html



    Who is "they"? By that logic, everyone partaking in BLM protests is a destructive criminal, because of a few folks.


    Any credibility you had on this site is totally destroyed Manic.


    And "they" are the trump/republican terrorists that just perpetrated a terrorist attack on the US Government


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  • #8491
    paul71
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭paul71


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    It's not. And that action I have no quarrel with being considered a terroristic act.

    You are all making it sound like this is the first time an angry crowd has illegally crashed a legislative body because they don't like something. Unless you consider all such occasions to be domestic terrorism, I guess.

    What if the violence was, instead, caused by the politicians themselves? The Italian parliament would be a veritable den of domestic terrorism!



    As I posted earlier, they did. https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/04/politics/muriel-bowser-dc-national-guard-protests/index.html


    2 bombs have been found, that means they bought the materials required in advance and went to the capital with intent, police were sprayed with chemicals to assist the storming of barriers, a guy absailed onto the floor of the senate from the viewing gallery, the equipment for the chemical irritant was bought in advance and brought there with intent.

    A trained police officer shot someone because he felt it was necessary. Hundreds of people in the crowd are clothed in items used by riot police, they came with the intent to riot and fight someone, ie the police.

    Your assertions are simply not credible and are biased based on support of liar who has incited this by saying things like "stand down and stand by" and "wild protest".


This discussion has been closed.
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