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The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

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  • #5942
    tritium
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,793 ✭✭✭tritium


    Enquiring wrote: »
    I didnt think it was complicated but I'll explain it for you if you need.

    The money was used for coaching and improving underage structures. That helped underage teams in 2003 and it eventually transferred to senior level. It's not rocket science.

    dublin had been getting the benefits 3 years before you say they were struggling, in fact you argued in had been happening g well in advance of 2003. That 2003 pool of players would have been well integrated into senior by that stage if the funding had been working so well in 03

    Absolute nonsense argument you’re making there


  • #5943
    Enquiring
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Enquiring


    tritium wrote: »
    As has already been pointed out, as is evidenced by the deal they just signed, cork may have had sponsorship but they certainly and demonstrably weren’t making the most of it.

    You seen to want to put everything down to funding but conveniently ignoring the wider funding the GAA provides. It spent over €20 million on games development and player welfare last year, not all of it going directly to counties. Dublin came up with an approach that enabled them to directly use the funds but the reality is games development would need that level of funding anyway based on the number of people it’s trying to reach in dublin. Would you be happier if it was shared out and administered centrally on a per capita basis, with dublin getting more? If dublin tore down the organisational structures so they used funding less efficiently? Again how would you allocate this funding ? You keep avoiding giving those details. As I’ve already demonstrated Leinster has 118 gdos, not all of these coming from county allocations, until you’re prepared to acknowledge and account for that your numbers are absolute pony and your argument pointless

    As has also been pointed out, the gdos are not supporting the inter county game. You talk about sponsorship money,fundraising, club subscriptions and the rest as if they were all one pot funding team dublin- they’re not. Most large inter county teams are spending massively on their team preparations, I gave the figure of 1.6m for Mayo in 2016, yet you’re happy to fob it off as travelling expenses. You just want the flashy headline as an excuse to justify your bitterness. What exactly is the breakdown of the dublin salary spend you quote for example? You bitch about their ability to attract sponsors but what does that cost dublin in terms of marketing personnel? What’s the net gain rather than the headline? I’m sure it’s worth it but I’m also sure that you’re quite deliberately missing the context to push your agenda

    Cork standards could have been improved if they were receiving games development funding on the same scale as Dublin. Dublin have received 12.5 times the amount Cork received this century. Any explanation?

    You want to ignore two decades of funding disparity. You can do so if you wish but no one else has to play along in your game of make believe.

    Where do inter county teams get their players from? It wouldn't be the clubs that have had the services of professional coaches for 2 decades would it?

    Of course it's one big pot. What are you talking about? The whole point is that Dublin have built on the investment by he GAA and all of us and are now operating with a level of finance that no one can come close to. I think you're well aware of the enormity of the figures at this stage! If you want a breakdown, then contact Dublin GAA directly. They are raging any accounts were released so I doubt they'll give you a reply but you can try.


  • #5944
    tritium
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,793 ✭✭✭tritium


    Enquiring wrote: »
    I've called for pooled sponsorship and a cap on spending on team preparations. Would you be in favour of the same? I'm interested in fair play for all, you'll need to look closer to home for those in favour of unfair competitions.

    What’s fair about dublin busting themselves to maximise sponsorship revenue and a Kildare official to ask for their cut when they haven’t done the same?

    How long do you think the dublin corks and Kerry’s of this works will bother their ass doing the sponsorship lifting so that other counties don’t have to?

    On team prep I absolutely favour a cap on spending if only to stop some counties prioritising short termism instead of investing in structures , Obvious question is what would be the basis for that- Leitrim simply couldn’t spend what Mayo or Kerry would currently need for example, how would you manage that? The only starting point I can see would have to be based on what teams can afford based on real revenues like ffp in soccer. What would your approach be?

    unfortunately though very little of what you’ve been on about actually relates to inter county team spending.


  • #5945
    tritium
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,793 ✭✭✭tritium


    Enquiring wrote: »
    Cork standards could have been improved if they were receiving games development funding on the same scale as Dublin. Dublin have received 12.5 times the amount Cork received this century. Any explanation?

    You want to ignore two decades of funding disparity. You can do so if you wish but no one else has to play along in your game of make believe.

    Where do inter county teams get their players from? It wouldn't be the clubs that have had the services of professional coaches for 2 decades would it?

    Of course it's one big pot. What are you talking about? The whole point is that Dublin have built on the investment by he GAA and all of us and are now operating with a level of finance that no one can come close to. I think you're well aware of the enormity of the figures at this stage! If you want a breakdown, then contact Dublin GAA directly. They are raging any accounts were released so I doubt they'll give you a reply but you can try.

    So you actually don’t have any answer

    Just throwing out headlines and hoping to make a sensationalised story


  • #5946
    Enquiring
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Enquiring


    tritium wrote: »
    Except your conspiracy theory says dublin had been getting the benefits 3 years before you say they were struggling, in fact you argued in had been happening g well in advance of 2003. That 2003 pool of players would have been well integrated into senior by that stage if the funding had been working so well in 03

    Absolute nonsense argument you’re making there

    What conspiracy theory? Are you claiming Dublin did not receive a huge level of funding granted by Bertie? Where did the money go? It sounds like the conspiracy theory is coming from your side!

    The money was for underage structures, the aim was to produce players for senior level. Underage players are called underage for a reason, you cant just throw 14 year olds into play senior football.

    These cows are small. Those cows are far away!


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  • #5947
    Enquiring
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Enquiring


    tritium wrote: »
    What’s fair about dublin busting themselves to maximise sponsorship revenue and a Kildare official to ask for their cut when they haven’t done the same?

    How long do you think the dublin corks and Kerry’s of this works will bother their ass doing the sponsorship lifting so that other counties don’t have to?

    On team prep I absolutely favour a cap on spending if only to stop some counties prioritising short termism instead of investing in structures , Obvious question is what would be the basis for that- Leitrim simply couldn’t spend what Mayo or Kerry would currently need for example, how would you manage that? The only starting point I can see would have to be based on what teams can afford based on real revenues like ffp in soccer. What would your approach be?

    unfortunately though very little of what you’ve been waffling on about actually relates to inter county team spending.

    So you're in favour of Dublin receiving 2.1 million per year in sponsorship while other counties receive pittance?

    Dublin spend over 1.5 million every year on team preparations. That's without much travel expenses. Far more than any other county when travel expenses are taken away. It's a huge amount Dublin spend, all part of the reason why Dublin being split is been called for. They're operating at a professional level in an amateur sport.


  • #5948
    Enquiring
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Enquiring


    tritium wrote: »
    So you actually don’t have any answer

    Just throwing out headlines and hoping to make a sensationalised story

    I just gave you a detailed answer.


  • #5949
    Hammer Archer
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,581 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hammer Archer


    Right, a separate warning to both sides in this debate:
    Firstly, any more mentioning of "financial doping" or any intimation that rules have been broken by Dublin or that Dublin have cheated are banned from now on. You can debate the issue of the funding that Dublin have received without resorting to that. There is zero evidence of it and posting about it will be considered trolling from here on in.

    Secondly, this topic is, like it or not, a big talking point in gaelic football at the moment. You are more than welcome to argue your point, but posting in this thread to simply mock those on the other side or complaining about the topic is known as thread spoiling and is specifically banned in the charter (see point 8 here). No one is forcing you to click on this thread and no one is forcing you to post in it. If you don't like the topic, then don't post. It's as simple as that.

    This thread is here so that all the discussion is in one place and it won't filter into other threads. This makes it easier to ignore for posters who don't really want to be involved in it. As a result, we haven't really been moderating it as severely as other threads. However, a number of posts recently from both sides are sailing too close to the wind and getting borderline personal. So please take a minute before you hit submit to ensure that your post won't fall foul of the rules. We'll have no hesitation in issuing cards and/or threadbans to posters who fail to heed this warning.

    Please report any posts that you feel break the rules.

    Any questions, please feel free to PM the mods.


  • #5950
    tritium
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,793 ✭✭✭tritium


    Enquiring wrote: »
    So you're in favour of Dublin receiving 2.1 million per year in sponsorship while other counties receive pittance?

    Dublin spend over 1.5 million every year on team preparations. That's without much travel expenses. Far more than any other county when travel expenses are taken away. It's a huge amount Dublin spend, all part of the reason why Dublin being split is been called for. They're operating at a professional level in an amateur sport.

    Love the way you always have caveats

    “If I take this away dublin get more....”
    “If I only look at what was given directly to the counties dublin get so much more again”
    “If I take the headline figures and ignore the details dublin are really taking the piss now...”

    I’m in favour of all counties maximising their sponsorship and putting in the work to do just that. Exactly what cork have done. 2 million over five years with performance incentives to dramatically increase that. Hardly a pittance. I’m assuming that, like dublin, cork will also be looking at other sponsorship channels- things may be looking up for the rebel county and fair play to them. When the other teams have done the same maybe come back to discuss if any rebalancing is warranted.


  • #5951
    Enquiring
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Enquiring


    tritium wrote: »
    Love the way you always have caveats

    “If I take this away dublin get more....”
    “If I only look at what was given directly to the counties dublin get so much more again”
    “If I take the headline figures and ignore the details dublin are really taking the piss now...”

    I’m in favour of all counties maximising their sponsorship and putting in the work to do just that. Exactly what cork have done. 2 million over five years with performance incentives to dramatically increase that. Hardly a pittance. I’m assuming that, like dublin, cork will also be looking at other sponsorship channels- things may be looking up for the rebel county and fair play to them. When the other teams have done the same maybe come back to discuss if any rebalancing is warranted.

    You use quote marks there but you didn't insert any quotes from me.

    It appears you are projecting. You want to exclude almost 2 decades worth of funding. You want to ignore the extreme levels of spending within Dublin GAA.

    The possibility for a level of sponsorship at Corks level is not even slightly realistic for the huge majority of counties. The possibility of the level of sponsorship that Dublin receive is not slightly possible for any county.

    To claim otherwise is extremely disingenuous.

    Give every county appropriate funding so they can develop Gaelic games. Pool sponsorship. Put a cap on spending for team preparations. Split Dublin into 4.

    In no particular order, these are the steps required to make Gaelic games fair and equitable.


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  • #5952
    ooter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,350 ✭✭✭ooter


    I'd love to be a fly on the wall when JP gets the call to say the money he's giving Limerick has to be shared with other counties.


  • #5953
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,851 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Enquiring wrote: »
    Give every county appropriate funding so they can develop Gaelic games. Pool sponsorship. Put a cap on spending for team preparations. Split Dublin into 4.

    In no particular order, these are the steps required to make Gaelic games fair and equitable.

    In case you missed it, someone above asked a relevant question of why Dublin should try to maximize sponsorship if its going to be pooled.

    Taken to an extremity, there'd be no reason not to just accept €500 from some shop on Dorset St? Why bother searching any further?


  • #5954
    Enquiring
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Enquiring


    ArmaniJeanss wrote: »
    In case you missed it, someone above asked a relevant question of why Dublin should try to maximize sponsorship if its going to be pooled.

    Taken to an extremity, there'd be no reason not to just accept €500 from some shop on Dorset St? Why bother searching any further?

    Hang on a minute. Are you saying Dublin GAA are not interested in the health of Gaelic games? They're only interested if it's Dublin GAA who are benefiting?

    You're not painting them in a good light. Dublin GAA have received millions upon millions of euros from all of us. We've all paid for the huge numbers of coaches nearly every club in Dublin has had access to. The increased sponsorship has been gained off the back of this.

    Now, after accepting the money granted to Dublin GAA, after seeing structures and standards improve across the board, after winning about 100 titles from it, Dublin GAA are going to stick their middle finger up to everyone else and keep every cent for themselves, is that what you're saying?


  • #5955
    Robson99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,668 ✭✭✭Robson99


    A simple solution is for all other counties fans to boycott games for one season. Guarantee the gaa will take notice when Donegal are playing Mayo in an empty Croke Park


  • #5956
    Enquiring
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Enquiring


    Robson99 wrote: »
    A simple solution is for all other counties fans to boycott games for one season. Guarantee the gaa will take notice when Donegal are playing Mayo in an empty Croke Park

    I think this is something we have to promote. They won't take notice otherwise as you say. It will be the future anyway if things are let continue as they are. Interest in the farce of a football championship is already falling massively. And that includes Dublin people who attend games.

    Boycott, hit them where it hurts. Let them know that we want an ending to professional structures for one county only.


  • #5957
    Strumms
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,875 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Robson99 wrote: »
    A simple solution is for all other counties fans to boycott games for one season. Guarantee the gaa will take notice when Donegal are playing Mayo in an empty Croke Park

    The GAA would simply be within their right to withdraw funding completely for both counties. Mayo and Donegal would be hurting the games nationwide. Don’t want to contribute ? Then you don’t benefit.

    If Mayo and Donegal don’t want to contribute to the revenue stream that benefits the clubs and counties the length and breadth of the country... they can have zero rights to hold their paw out looking for their ‘share’....


  • #5958
    Enquiring
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Enquiring


    Strumms wrote: »
    The GAA would simply be within their right to withdraw funding completely for both counties. Mayo and Donegal would be hurting the games nationwide. Don’t want to contribute ? Then you don’t benefit.

    If Mayo and Donegal don’t want to contribute to the revenue stream that benefits the clubs and counties the length and breadth of the country... they can have zero rights to hold their paw out looking for their ‘share’....

    And there are some really good supporters in Mayo and Donegal who live and breathe GAA. Maybe it's not the best solution but it's on the list of possibilities.

    A better one could be boycotting Dublin games. All league and championship games involving Dublin. This would really highlight the problem people have with the financial situation in Dublin GAA.


  • #5959
    ooter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,350 ✭✭✭ooter


    If Donegal are playing mayo in croke park it'll be either an all ireland quarter final or semi final, it certainly won't be full but it won't be empty/boycotted either.
    Donegal/mayo final is a sell out.
    Can't see limerick, cork, tipp, kilkenny, waterford, galway supporters even entertaining the suggestion of a boycott.
    Was there a boycott when kerry played tyrone in the semi final in 2019?


  • #5960
    Robson99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,668 ✭✭✭Robson99


    Strumms wrote: »
    The GAA would simply be within their right to withdraw funding completely for both counties. Mayo and Donegal would be hurting the games nationwide. Don’t want to contribute ? Then you don’t benefit.

    If Mayo and Donegal don’t want to contribute to the revenue stream that benefits the clubs and counties the length and breadth of the country... they can have zero rights to hold their paw out looking for their ‘share’....

    So by that logic if the crowd is small in Croke Park then the participating counties will get less?
    Do Kerry get less if their fans don't travel for an AI Semi ?


  • #5961
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,851 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Enquiring wrote: »
    Hang on a minute. Are you saying Dublin GAA are not interested in the health of Gaelic games? They're only interested if it's Dublin GAA who are benefiting?

    I don't particular see it that way - merely pointing out that logically the person whose role it is to maximise the sponsorship in a county is immediately less incentivised under a pooling system. It's not particularly a Dublin thing, it would also apply to every other county - indeed every other sport. Its just a truism.

    The alternative I guess is a centralised sponsor system such that MegaCorp pay X Million to have their name on every county jersey and the money is distributed 32 ways, though this has huge downsides as well (the overall amount would be smaller, and the link between counties and a sponsor is broken).


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  • #5962
    Strumms
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,875 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Robson99 wrote: »
    So by that logic if the crowd is small in Croke Park then the participating counties will get less?
    Do Kerry get less if their fans don't travel for an AI Semi ?

    A boycott is something organized, deliberate... there is the difference...


  • #5963
    Robson99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,668 ✭✭✭Robson99


    Strumms wrote: »
    A boycott is something organized, deliberate... there is the difference...

    But it would be the supporters not attending...the team still turns up..
    The only way the Gaa understand things is in their pockets. The way it's going it's going to hurt them anyways as people are losing interest year on year.
    FWIW I have no issue with the Dubs...they are a joy to watch the last 10 years or so and have fantastic footballers... It's just that they are going to win min 6 out of 10 each decade going forward.
    Maybe they should be made play some of their games outside Croke Park....oh wait that won't happen...financial hit on the Gaa


  • #5964
    ooter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,350 ✭✭✭ooter


    They played 2 games outside of croke park in 2018 and 2019. I for one would be delighted if there were more dublin games outside of croke park, much prefer away games.


  • #5965
    Strumms
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,875 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Enquiring wrote: »

    A better one could be boycotting Dublin games. All league and championship games involving Dublin. This would really highlight the problem people have with the financial situation in Dublin GAA.

    Boycott Dublin games ? Same outcome... your funding gets withdrawn...100% of it. Your ticket allowance goes on general sale.. Not willing to put it in, you don’t get to take anything out....there would be a financial problem...

    Imagine the shoe was on the opposite foot... Dublin unhappy with xyz, toys out of the pram... going to boycott games ? uproar...!


  • #5966
    Strumms
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,875 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Robson99 wrote: »
    But it would be the supporters not attending...the team still turns up..
    The only way the Gaa understand things is in their pockets. The way it's going it's going to hurt them anyways as people are losing interest year on year.
    FWIW I have no issue with the Dubs...they are a joy to watch the last 10 years or so and have fantastic footballers... It's just that they are going to win min 6 out of 10 each decade going forward.
    Maybe they should be made play some of their games outside Croke Park....oh wait that won't happen...financial hit on the Gaa

    Outside of croker, no problem, but, as I’ve said before... the same fans will be spitting dummies then when they are scrambling for tickets for stadia that hold 45/46 thousand in Cork and Tipp instead of 80,000 in croker.


  • #5967
    Enquiring
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Enquiring


    ArmaniJeanss wrote: »
    I don't particular see it that way - merely pointing out that logically the person whose role it is to maximise the sponsorship in a county is immediately less incentivised under a pooling system. It's not particularly a Dublin thing, it would also apply to every other county - indeed every other sport. Its just a truism.

    The alternative I guess is a centralised sponsor system such that MegaCorp pay X Million to have their name on every county jersey and the money is distributed 32 ways, though this has huge downsides as well (the overall amount would be smaller, and the link between counties and a sponsor is broken).

    Obviously you dont see it that way. Sponsorship is divided out by HQ anyway. Dublin received 2.3 million in 2019 when that money is included.


  • #5968
    Robson99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,668 ✭✭✭Robson99


    Strumms wrote: »

    Imagine the shoe was on the opposite foot... Dublin unhappy with xyz, toys out of the pram... going to boycott games ? uproar...!

    And a solution found...and quickly


  • #5969
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,851 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Enquiring wrote: »
    Obviously you dont see it that way. Sponsorship is divided out by HQ anyway. Dublin received 2.3 million in 2019 when that money is included.

    You're referring to competition name sponsors I think? As in 'AIB' football championship, or whoever it currently is.

    Clearly that's a different stream to the individual sponsorship each county gets from a brand who wishes to be associated with that specific county. And it's that which you are trying to justify the pooling of, despite it being a terribly flawed idea.


  • #5970
    Enquiring
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Enquiring


    Strumms wrote: »
    Boycott Dublin games ? Same outcome... your funding gets withdrawn...100% of it. Your ticket allowance goes on general sale.. Not willing to put it in, you don’t get to take anything out....there would be a financial problem...

    Imagine the shoe was on the opposite foot... Dublin unhappy with xyz, toys out of the pram... going to boycott games ? uproar...!

    Are you John Horan? There will be no funding withdrawn for supporters choosing not to attend games!

    The reason for a boycott has been pointed out numerous times in this thread. You are well aware of these issues I assume? If it was another county who had these issues, people would be calling for a boycott of their games also. The issue is with Dublin GAA though, it's nothing personal.


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  • #5971
    Strumms
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,875 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Enquiring wrote: »
    Are you John Horan? There will be no funding withdrawn for supporters choosing not to attend games!

    The reason for a boycott has been pointed out numerous times in this thread. You are well aware of these issues I assume? If it was another county who had these issues, people would be calling for a boycott of their games also. The issue is with Dublin GAA though, it's nothing personal.

    No, not JH.... ;)

    Again, if certain counties abdicate a will or want to participate fully in the sports in good faith, they are in my book, abdicating to benefit from funding...

    If you don’t put in, you can’t get out.


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