New electric car

unkel · 02-01-2021 9:57pm

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Should make Dublin to Galway and back with a single 30 mins charge at Galway plaza, assuming you have no destination charger available

Did that last week in cold and wet weather. Round trip from Dublin to about 20km north west of Galway. 20-25 minutes at Galway plaza on the way back, the car was charging at up to 130kW

Not bad for a 7 year old EV

Edit - was actually 38 minutes! Only just about time to go to the rest room and get some carvery dinner in me and relax for 5 minutes. Used 42kWh at a cost of €14, so average charge speed was 66kW

innrain · 03-01-2021 10:33am

Deleted User wrote: »

The problem is the charging curve, it's pretty crap on most electric cars + cold batteries can take 20 mins or more to charge.

Things are improving though.
attachment.php?attachmentid=538098&stc=1&d=1609666141

This is Kona charging @1°;C. 48kW at 50kW charger is the best you can hope for.

03-01-2021 11:16am

liamog wrote: »

I'm really noticing the cold battery difference between the Ioniq and the Mini (same battery as the 94Ah I3). The Ioniq 28kWh maybe adds about 4/5 min during cold weather so I never really understood what you were talking about.

I have no Idea what the prerequisites for battery heating are on the Ioniq but it has to heat the battery because there's no Li battery immune to greatly increased internal resistance due to a cold battery. It's only got a fan heater and it can't warm up that fast.

I would like to know if setting off in the ioniq with a cold battery when the car hasn't been plugged in over night in cold weather would increased charge times be noticed ?

The i3 only heats the battery when plugged in and a charge timer and depart timer are set 4 hrs prior to departure and it only heats to 10 Deg C which was designed only to allow max acceleration and regen, charging the battery even at 10 Deg C is quite slow but you wouldn't be charging in those circumstances yet because you just set off with a fully charged battery and I've discovered that when the battery is charged to 100% and pre-heated that by the time I need a charge on a long drive I get near enough full power or full power.

The trick with the i3/mi or any EV is after a long drive even if inconvenient try charge it up when you get to your destination while the battery is still warm because even in the height of an Irish summer the temps can get as low as 8 Deg C at night and this is plenty low enough to cool the battery a lot.

The thing about the i3 is that it's really sluggish when the battery is around 3 or 4 Deg C, I really notice the drop off in acceleration and you can see it on the power meter.

Not even a Tesla is immune to decreased acceleration with a cold battery or increased charge times, in fact, Bjorn did a recent video on it, I haven't watched it yet but there have been complaints.

Some batteries will suffer more than others, the more powerful the car the more noticeable it will be, I did not notice reduced acceleration with the leaf but it only had 109 hp but I did see as little as 18Kw on regen when the battery was very cold.

Old diesel · 03-01-2021 12:52pm

In my opinion the longer recharge time for 60 kwh batteries only comes into play if you need the big fill to continue your journey.

So if you needed to do 220 miles today but the car had 170 miles range - you wouldnt need a long stop to make up the gap at a rapid.

Youd need to just put say 40 percent into the car and not go to full 80 percent

03-01-2021 1:26pm

innrain wrote: »

Things are improving though.

This is Kona charging @1°;C. 48kW at 50kW charger is the best you can hope for.

@ 1 Deg C, ambient but the Battery temp is obviously way higher.

I could show charging the i3 @ 50 Kw @ -5 Deg C if the battery was up to temp.

03-01-2021 1:27pm

unkel wrote: »

Did that last week in cold and wet weather. Round trip from Dublin to about 20km north west of Galway. 20-25 minutes at Galway plaza on the way back, the car was charging at up to 130kW

Not bad for a 7 year old EV

Edit - was actually 38 minutes! Only just about time to go to the rest room and get some carvery dinner in me and relax for 5 minutes. Used 42kWh at a cost of €14, so average charge speed was 66kW

And you did all that at 120-130 Km/hr I bet ?

Would be good if that could be brought down to 10 mins.

unkel · 03-01-2021 2:36pm

Deleted User wrote: »

And you did all that at 120-130 Km/hr I bet ?

Mostly, yes

Deleted User wrote: »

Would be good if that could be brought down to 10 mins.

I had to take a break and eat dinner anyway, half an hour or even a bit more was perfectly fine. But in summer I could probably do that same journey with just a 15 minute charge. The Teslas (even this old beast) charge really fast when they are almost empty, but start to taper almost immediately

innrain · 03-01-2021 3:03pm

Deleted User wrote: »

@ 1 Deg C, ambient but the Battery temp is obviously way higher.

I could show charging the i3 @ 50 Kw @ -5 Deg C if the battery was up to temp.

I drove 5 mins to get to the charger. It started at 41 kW and charged 36.430 kWh in 45 mins averaging 48.43 kW, slightly less than in warm weather but not even 10% less. The highest average charging rate at the same charger was 50.22kW in September. If the battery was warm it was because of its thermal management and not due to driving.

Paul Gorey · 03-01-2021 6:49pm

Thanks a million for all the replies everyone! Given me a lot to consider!!

03-01-2021 6:57pm

innrain wrote: »

I drove 5 mins to get to the charger. It started at 41 kW and charged 36.430 kWh in 45 mins averaging 48.43 kW, slightly less than in warm weather but not even 10% less. The highest average charging rate at the same charger was 50.22kW in September. If the battery was warm it was because of its thermal management and not due to driving.

Interesting, I'd like some hard data to see what temp the 64 Kwh Korean cars is at and at what KW on a DC charger.

Patser · 03-01-2021 7:43pm

Paul Gorey wrote: »

Thanks a million for all the replies everyone! Given me a lot to consider!!

One of the biggest problems at the moment with buying an EV, especially a new one is that the range and development is suddenly exploding as all manufacturers are jumping on board. So suddenly there's a big choice, especially regards to soon to be released - and with this interest there's a lot of development and improvements on the way. So the 'next car' syndrome of what is coming kicks in.

Gone are the days of do you choose between a Leaf or a Zoe. Now its Tesla model 3 vs id3 vs Kona vs Niro vs 208 vs Honda e vs.... , oh and this year you also have Model Y, id4, Enyaq, Mokka e....

Choice has improved dramatically over last 12 months, and is going to explode again over next 12 - Ford are joining party with new Mustang, Seat have their el Born sporty take on VW trch to come, Jaguar are rumoured to be working on more affordable i Pace alternative.... so it can be a good time to join EV club, just don't get too hung up on what's to come.

liamog · 03-01-2021 7:45pm

I think a big reason the original Ioniq can maintain it's charge speed when cold, is that the battery was capable of charging at around 70kW. If the cold battery causes a 30% drop off in charging capability, the Ioniq is now stuck at 49kW versus and I3 at 35kW.

03-01-2021 7:50pm

liamog wrote: »

I think a big reason the original Ioniq can maintain it's charge speed when cold, is that the battery was capable of charging at around 70kW. If the cold battery causes a 30% drop off in charging capability, the Ioniq is now stuck at 49kW versus and I3 at 35kW.

i3 at 35 kw ? I wish, if cold enough can show 22 Kw at the charger. Big difference from 50 Kw when around 21 Deg C and interestingly the Model 3 needs to be 45 degrees C give or take for max charge and can see 50 odd degrees when charging, I'd like to know the impact on longevity due to that.

I'd like to see the ioniq on a 150 Kw charger and with known battery temp.

AMKC · 03-01-2021 7:53pm

At OP Mazda also have an electric car the MX30 it's called and it's worth looking at. Also the Kia E-Soul is another.

Silent Running · 03-01-2021 8:06pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Interesting, I'd like some hard data to see what temp the 64 Kwh Korean cars is at and at what KW on a DC charger.

Not hard data... but from memory of winter 2019-2020. I remember the Niro at an Ionity unit pulling 76kW at a battery temperature of 14C according to Torque pro. It wasn't a cold day though, I think we had about 12C that day.

I captured the dash at 76kW, but didn't capture the phone readout showing the temperature.

The temperature rose steadily during the charge.

liamog · 03-01-2021 8:08pm

AMKC wrote: »

At OP Mazda also have an electric car the MX30 it's called and it's worth looking at. Also the Kia E-Soul is another.

Based on the OP's needs, I wouldn't go near the MX30. The e-soul is a good option though. OP mentioned regular Dublin Athlone trips, that's a 256km return journey. Based on that I'd be looking at cars with at least a 350km WLTP range if it's going to be the main family car.

fricatus · 03-01-2021 9:35pm

liamog wrote: »

Based on the OP's needs, I wouldn't go near the MX30. The e-soul is a good option though. OP mentioned regular Dublin Athlone trips, that's a 256km return journey. Based on that I'd be looking at cars with at least a 350km WLTP range if it's going to be the main family car.

Yes, the MX30 is a good car by all accounts, but Mazda have decided to keep the cost down by offering limited range and betting that the charging infrastructure will take the strain. It’s a brave move and I can see why they did it. I suspect it would work for anyone who was used to an old Leaf or Zoe, or whose daily mileage is limited and predictable, but not for the “600 km, recharge in 5 minutes” brigade.

the_amazing_raisin · 03-01-2021 10:22pm

Old diesel wrote: »

In my opinion the longer recharge time for 60 kwh batteries only comes into play if you need the big fill to continue your journey.

So if you needed to do 220 miles today but the car had 170 miles range - you wouldnt need a long stop to make up the gap at a rapid.

Youd need to just put say 40 percent into the car and not go to full 80 percent

I read an article a while back where there was a survey of drivers to find the ideal length of a charging stop. Apparently they worked out that 15 mins was generally the maximum amount of time people would be willing to wait

Realistically I'd say 15 mins is a bit ambitious unless you've a Taycan or a Model 3 on a v3 supercharger, most other cars won't add a huge amount of range in that time

But it's probably worth thinking about how long you'd consider a reasonable charging stop and work from there.

Personally I'd consider 25 mins a reasonable amount of time to stop. That's enough time for a bathroom break, grab a coffee and donuts and consume said coffee and donut without giving myself indigestion

So in an ID.4 that's probably enough to add 200-250 km of range. Add that to the 300-350km of motorway range you started with and you've a realistic range of 500-600km

the_amazing_raisin · 03-01-2021 10:33pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And you did all that at 120-130 Km/hr I bet ?

Would be good if that could be brought down to 10 mins.

Personally I'd be tempted to charge at Ionity Athlone both ways if I'm doing Dublin to Galway and back

It's the most inefficient way possible on the outward journey because the battery is too full, so it's 2 15-20 min stops versus a single 25-35 min stop

But Ionity has 4 chargers versus 1 HPC in Galway plaza. To me the 15 mins I lose by charging twice is worth the certainty of a charger being free.

If I arrived at Galway plaza just after unkel plugged in, that quickly becomes a 1 hour charging stop where I'm either on 50kW or waiting for a charger

EDIT: Just did the numbers in ABRP and the timing works out the same, 35 mins in Galway plaza versus 13+19 mins at Athlone.

Ionity is of course more expensive but I think it's worth it for the certainty of having a charger available. Also my ID.4 comes with 3 years of discounted Ionity rates (€0.53/kWh)

AndyBoBandy · 04-01-2021 10:37am

I'd probably favour the Athlone stop on that route simply because of power (pardon the pun) in numbers.... I'd still try and use the (free) Circle K 50kW if available, but would have no qualms about using the Ionity as it would only ever be a once off to make a trip like that...

(Although looking on PlugShare, it appears the Circle K CCS plug is deactivated? and it's CHAdeMO only now?, which would kind of make sense given there are 4 (albeit expensive) CCS plugs there).

Having said that, if on the return to Dublin I was passing Galway Plaza and saw that one of the CCS plugs was available*, I'd probably stop at it and fill up enough for a non stop return to Dublin (200km from the plaza to my home).

*the joys of having an internet browser in your cars display, with eCars saved as a favourite..

unkel · 04-01-2021 10:45am

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

*the joys of having an internet browser in your cars display, with eCars saved as a favourite..

LOL, never thought of that. I guess until there is a supercharger on that route somewhere, I might give that a go

AndyBoBandy · 04-01-2021 10:56am

unkel wrote: »

LOL, never thought of that. I guess until there is a supercharger on that route somewhere, I might give that a go

yeah, works a treat..

open the browser, select eCars from favourites list, let it load, then it asks for permission to use your current location, and then opens the map on where you are, so you see the eCars units around you.. pick the one you want and it shows you if its available or not...

Kramer · 04-01-2021 1:31pm

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

(Although looking on PlugShare, it appears the Circle K CCS plug is deactivated? and it's CHAdeMO only now?

Worked fine for me very recently.

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Ionity is of course more expensive but I think it's worth it for the certainty of having a charger available. Also my ID.4 comes with 3 years of discounted Ionity rates (€0.53/kWh)

How are you finding the ID.4? I didn't realise they were available here already :eek:.

Kramer · 04-01-2021 1:33pm

Kramer wrote: »

How are you finding the ID.4? I didn't realise they were available here already :eek:.

Just noticed the other thread - March deliveries, pre-emptive well wear anyway :pac:.

AndyBoBandy · 04-01-2021 1:50pm

Kramer wrote: »

Worked fine for me very recently.

Good to know.

I only looked at a few photo's where there was a 'out of order' tag on the CCS, and I thought it might be related to keeping the CHAdeMO free?

How do those work, I see 3 spaces but 2 plugs.... is there an AC socket on the side? Can the CCS & CHAdeMO be used at the same time?

zg3409 · 04-01-2021 2:50pm

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Good to know.

I only looked at a few photo's where there was a 'out of order' tag on the CCS, and I thought it might be related to keeping the CHAdeMO free?

How do those work, I see 3 spaces but 2 plugs.... is there an AC socket on the side? Can the CCS & CHAdeMO be used at the same time?

Going off topic. See plugshare app for photos if setup. 50kW free charger is CCS and ChaDeMo only (no AC) and there is a couple of AC posts next to it. The gold coloured car seems to be a local or staff car as I have seen it on AC a few times.

I think the free charger is working OK, as far as I know based on checkins and Facebook comments.

Back on topic, time to charge can be a problem, reliability and queueing at chargers for others to leave is a problem. Even ionity has regular problems with chargers. 50% are offline at City North Gormonstown (1 of 2) and both were down last November.

the_amazing_raisin · 04-01-2021 4:09pm

Kramer wrote: »

Worked fine for me very recently.

How are you finding the ID.4? I didn't realise they were available here already :eek:.

Still waiting for it, dealership told me February

josip · 04-01-2021 9:08pm

Patser wrote: »

Of the type of car you've mentioned, another vote here for the Kia E-Niro best all round E.V. on market.

If money can stretch Tesla Model 3, if you want a bit more performance and fun.

If you can wait - Skoda Enyaq looks promising, bigger than VW id3 but with all its mechanics underneath.

Other soon to be released dark horses - Citroen e-C4 and Opel Mokka (both built on Peugeots current EV mechanics that are proving popular)

If money no object (in increasing price) VW ID4 - Jaguar i Pace - Tesla Model X - Porsche Taycan

I thought the Enyaq was the Skoda equivalent of the ID.4, not the ID.3?

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/skoda/enyaq

Patser · 04-01-2021 9:10pm

josip wrote: »

I thought the Enyaq was the Skoda equivalent of the ID.4, not the ID.3?

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/skoda/enyaq

Think they all pretty much share the same underpinnings, but yeah size wise its more id4 than id3

Summer8181 · 05-01-2021 12:53am

I am not sure if there a thread for the cost of charging at charge stations.

What is the average price per kwh?

What is the price vs time to charge.

I would be willing to stop for 20 minutes but would like 100km range or around 30 KWh.

Is this a runner or not?

New electric car

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