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New electric car

  • 01-01-2021 4:25pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭✭✭ Paul Gorey


    Looking to buy a new car and I'm going to change from diesel to electric.
    The two cars I've looked at so far are the Nissan Leaf and the Hyundai Kona.
    The Leaf has a nicer appearance and is more spacious (not a major issue for me).
    But the Kona has a greater range in terms of miles before charging.
    That's all I know about both of them. Haven't driven either, or any electric car for that matter.
    Any drivers of the Kona or Leaf and what do you think of them? Would you recommend?
    Any other electric car drivers could recommend a good car that's going well for them? I'm sure there are others I've overlooked.
    Thanks in advance,
    Paul.
    Tagged:


«13

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭ geodesic


    Paul Gorey wrote: »
    Any other electric car drivers could recommend a good car that's going well for them? I'm sure there are others I've overlooked.

    Also switching to an EV in the new year, got a VW ID.4 on order for delivery in a month or two.

    You might want to consider that model also, similar range & size to the Kona but much bigger boot if you need that. Also there's the Golf-sized ID.3 out since last year.

    If you like the Kona, have a look at the Kia e-Niro ... same Korean conglomerate, so lots of shared components with the Kona including the basic chassis. Slightly different form factor tho', again bigger boot capacity.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,206 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    Paul Gorey wrote: »
    Any other electric car drivers could recommend a good car that's going well for them? I'm sure there are others I've overlooked.
    Thanks in advance,
    Paul.

    It depends on what you want really.

    Size, range, looks, features etc.
    Have you any must-haves?

    Do you regularly drive long distance and if so, what distance?
    Will you be able to charge at home on your driveway.... thats critical to EV ownership.


  • Moderators Posts: 11,978 ✭✭✭✭ Black_Knight


    Kona sold well in Ireland, but at 38k+ I don't think anyone here is/was recommending them. Bad spec in Ireland, dull interior, cramped and no boot.

    Kia ENiro on the other hand is well regarded on here. It's the same as the Kona but interior isn't as dull, it's more spacious and has a boot.

    Leaf gets somewhat mixed reviews here. IMO, they're falling behind the times. CHAdeMO socket is old tech, charging speeds are not 2021 standard (or anything near that), and range is only decent.

    VW id3 might be a nice option too. Good range, good price, decent spec.

    Test drive em all, get back to us with what you like, and we'll point you one direction or another.... Or all directions


  • Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭✭✭ Paul Gorey


    KCross wrote: »
    It depends on what you want really.

    Size, range, looks, features etc.
    Have you any must-haves?

    Do you regularly drive long distance and if so, what distance?
    Will you be able to charge at home on your driveway.... thats critical to EV ownership.

    Yeah, would do a lot of driving across the country for work. Lots of motorway driving. Size I suppose, mid range, similar to leaf or kona.
    No particular must haves, apart from being good for regular long distance journeys.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,516 ✭✭✭✭ Idbatterim




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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,206 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    Paul Gorey wrote: »
    Yeah, would do a lot of driving across the country for work. Lots of motorway driving. Size I suppose, mid range, similar to leaf or kona.
    No particular must haves, apart from being good for regular long distance journeys.

    That’s an important requirement then as all EVs are not equal when it comes to fast motorway driving.

    Are these motorway journeys all over the country or just a specific one?

    How far are we talking?

    Do you expect to be able to do a return journey without charging?

    Can you charge at your destination?

    Budget?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,061 Mod ✭✭✭✭ slave1


    As said, extend the eNiro into your list. As driven both I wouldn't say the Kona is small, it's tiny, really is. The Leaf is a lot bigger, great room on the inside for driver and passengers
    The eNiro though is the pick of those three, has the space and range.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭✭✭ Paul Gorey


    KCross wrote: »
    That’s an important requirement then as all EVs are not equal when it comes to fast motorway driving.

    Are these motorway journeys all over the country or just a specific one?

    How far are we talking?

    Do you expect to be able to do a return journey without charging?

    Can you charge at your destination?

    Budget?

    Yeah, go from Dublin regularly down the country to Athlone and even as far as Galway occasionally. I'd clock up big miles over the course of a year.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,061 Mod ✭✭✭✭ slave1


    Paul Gorey wrote: »
    Yeah, go from Dublin regularly down the country to Athlone and even as far as Galway occasionally. I'd clock up big miles over the course of a year.

    Then forget about the Leaf as that does not take more than one rapid charge a day before killing the charging speed (rapidgate)


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,206 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    Paul Gorey wrote: »
    Yeah, go from Dublin regularly down the country to Athlone and even as far as Galway occasionally. I'd clock up big miles over the course of a year.

    Budget?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,830 ✭✭✭ the_amazing_raisin


    I'd recommend getting something with fast charging as well as long range. Big battery with slow charging around 50kW means any charging stops will take upwards of an hour

    That rules out the Leaf, it's effectively 50kW since there are no higher power fast chargers with Chademo plugs

    VW ID.3 and ID.4 are probably worth looking at
    Peugeot e-2008 might be a good option
    Kia E-Niro is definitely worth considering
    Ioniq 5 is coming later this year and might fit your needs too


  • Site Banned Posts: 113 ✭✭ Dunfyy




  • Registered Users Posts: 21,377 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    Kona sold well in Ireland, but at 38k+ I don't think anyone here is/was recommending them. Bad spec in Ireland, dull interior, cramped and no boot.

    Kia ENiro on the other hand is well regarded on here. It's the same as the Kona but interior isn't as dull, it's more spacious and has a boot.

    Leaf gets somewhat mixed reviews here. IMO, they're falling behind the times. CHAdeMO socket is old tech, charging speeds are not 2021 standard (or anything near that), and range is only decent.

    VW id3 might be a nice option too. Good range, good price, decent spec.

    Test drive em all, get back to us with what you like, and we'll point you one direction or another.... Or all directions

    In fairness to the Leaf E-Plus it's quite good when it comes to DC charging on a 150 Kw charger, how heat effects it now I'm not sure yet. But it's not fair to run it down now when it comes to DC charging at least when the battery temp is within range.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,830 ✭✭✭ the_amazing_raisin


    EV database is good for realistic range and charging info

    https://ev-database.org/


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,377 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    I'd recommend getting something with fast charging as well as long range. Big battery with slow charging around 50kW means any charging stops will take upwards of an hour

    That rules out the Leaf, it's effectively 50kW since there are no higher power fast chargers with Chademo plugs

    VW ID.3 and ID.4 are probably worth looking at
    Peugeot e-2008 might be a good option
    Kia E-Niro is definitely worth considering
    Ioniq 5 is coming later this year and might fit your needs too

    The ESB are installing 150 Kw chargers with ChaDeMo but admittedly CCS is best. But the Leaf E-Plus can charge at a decent rate.

    Personally out of the list above I'd go with the ID.4 because it's very quiet inside, and very quick off the line, Rear wheel drive makes a massive difference living on an Island with roads damp or wet most of the year, pulling out of junctions with spinning wheels is a big no no for me at least.

    The S-2008 isn't supposed to be very efficient either.

    The id.3 can charge at one of the best rates out there at the moment, I'd go for that alone, battery temp dependent of course.

    ID.4 if within budget, larger and much nicer interior though the id.3 should have much better interior options now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,350 ✭✭✭ Patser


    Of the type of car you've mentioned, another vote here for the Kia E-Niro best all round E.V. on market.

    If money can stretch Tesla Model 3, if you want a bit more performance and fun.

    If you can wait - Skoda Enyaq looks promising, bigger than VW id3 but with all its mechanics underneath.

    Other soon to be released dark horses - Citroen e-C4 and Opel Mokka (both built on Peugeots current EV mechanics that are proving popular)

    If money no object (in increasing price) VW ID4 - Jaguar i Pace - Tesla Model X - Porsche Taycan


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,922 ✭✭✭ zg3409


    In terms of cars those with 60kWh+ batteries will go futher without needing to be charged up again but when they do go low you could be talking a 1 hour or more stop at the 50kW chargers to refill them.

    If you are intending regular long distance trips you need to really research the true state of the public charging network and the lack of 50kW chargers in many places with most sites only having one charger that can be broken for months if not years. Northern Ireland is a disaster with most broken most of the time.

    Are you willing to wait 1+ hour at a motorway services?

    For example Athlone motorway services, one free charger that has been broken at least twice in the past year for weeks at a time, other chargers from ionity there cannot charge a leaf, and are crazy expensive and typically one or two are not working at any point in time, and athone is a good location compared to other towns.

    You also need to research real worst case range at full 120km/h speed in worst case low battery temperature.(like winter conditions we are having now)You could probably be talking 300km between charges on a 64kWh battery car, assuming charger works, is not busy and then you are adding an hour to your trip.I love EVs but the public network is far from ideal and if travelling beyond EV range you must public charge to get back home. Factor in fuel savings, typical overpricing of EVs. Consider used for value and lower depreciation. An EV might not make sense for you right now, if more than 1% of your round trips are beyond the real range of the car.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 6,084 Mod ✭✭✭✭ liamog


    zg3409 wrote: »
    An EV might not make sense for you right now, if more than 1% of your round trips are beyond the real range of the car.

    At 1% of trips, I think you'd be daft to discount an EV for a given requirement. You're basically saying if you need to travel outside your range more than 4 days a year you should ignore all the other benefits. I'd put the threshold closer to once a month.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,028 ✭✭✭ Lantus


    Model 3 long range or e soul would be top contenders.

    Your motorway av speed will affect range significantly. Look up real world tests and ignore manufacturer ratings.

    Athlone trip is doable on one charge but galway needs a charge most likely.research how and where this will be done.

    Big battery id3 is coming I think. Another one to watch.

    Edit: 77kw tour is available at 42k and a theoretical 550km range.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,377 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    zg3409 wrote: »
    In terms of cars those with 60kWh+ batteries will go futher without needing to be charged up again but when they do go low you could be talking a 1 hour or more stop at the 50kW chargers to refill them.

    If you are intending regular long distance trips you need to really research the true state of the public charging network and the lack of 50kW chargers in many places with most sites only having one charger that can be broken for months if not years. Northern Ireland is a disaster with most broken most of the time.

    Are you willing to wait 1+ hour at a motorway services?

    For example Athlone motorway services, one free charger that has been broken at least twice in the past year for weeks at a time, other chargers from ionity there cannot charge a leaf, and are crazy expensive and typically one or two are not working at any point in time, and athone is a good location compared to other towns.

    You also need to research real worst case range at full 120km/h speed in worst case low battery temperature.(like winter conditions we are having now)You could probably be talking 300km between charges on a 64kWh battery car, assuming charger works, is not busy and then you are adding an hour to your trip.I love EVs but the public network is far from ideal and if travelling beyond EV range you must public charge to get back home. Factor in fuel savings, typical overpricing of EVs. Consider used for value and lower depreciation. An EV might not make sense for you right now, if more than 1% of your round trips are beyond the real range of the car.

    + add to that cold batteries take longer to charge.

    Regarding Ionity, if someone isn't using them every day then the cost isn't a big issue of most charging is done at home on night rate, the savings are still massive.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,377 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    Lantus wrote: »
    Model 3 long range or e soul would be top contenders.

    Your motorway av speed will affect range significantly. Look up real world tests and ignore manufacturer ratings.

    Athlone trip is doable on one charge but galway needs a charge most likely.research how and where this will be done.

    Big battery id3 is coming I think. Another one to watch.

    Edit: 77kw tour is available at 42k and a theoretical 550km range.

    The largest battery id.3 is a 4 seater only.

    If it were I and I had to choose I would be choosing a car that offered the fastest charging and this would be the id.3 or model 3 at this point in time, however when the battery is cold charge time increased but still the id.3 M3 have the best charging times.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,754 ✭✭✭✭ emmet02


    Do people really stop at motorway services to fully recharge or do they top up to have enough to get them to their next destination?

    I think the 1hour+ stops are only required if you are literally covering hundreds of kilometres per day without sleep / rest.

    I was extremely concerned about stoppages and taking 'huge chunks of time' for my journey 'standing still' but actually it's far more likely if you have a 60kWh+ battery and you can't quite make it on a single charge, that you'll only be needing 15/20 kWh added to get you to your final destination.

    Ireland is not that big! If your car requires 80 kWh for your journey, and you 'only' have a 60 kWh battery, a 50kW chargee at some stage gets you that additional required 20kW in < 30mins. If you can hit a 150KW charger that comes down to further. (note - no LEAF - https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/esb-introduces-pricing-for-ultra-fast-ev-chargers-1.4411554)


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,377 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    emmet02 wrote: »
    Do people really stop at motorway services to fully recharge or do they top up to have enough to get them to their next destination?

    I think the 1hour+ stops are only required if you are literally covering hundreds of kilometres per day without sleep / rest.

    I was extremely concerned about stoppages and taking 'huge chunks of time' for my journey 'standing still' but actually it's far more likely if you have a 60kWh+ battery and you can't quite make it on a single charge, that you'll only be needing 15/20 kWh added to get you to your final destination.

    Ireland is not that big! If your car requires 80 kWh for your journey, and you 'only' have a 60 kWh battery, a 50kW chargee at some stage gets you that additional required 20kW in < 30mins. If you can hit a 150KW charger that comes down to further. (note - no LEAF - https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/esb-introduces-pricing-for-ultra-fast-ev-chargers-1.4411554)

    The problem is the charging curve, it's pretty crap on most electric cars + cold batteries can take 20 mins or more to charge.

    There are a few cars with a good charging curve, battery temp depending of course.

    the 94 + 120 ah BMW i3
    Audi E-tron

    There's a few others I can't think of atm.


  • Registered Users Posts: 246 ✭✭ jordan191


    If your budget allows a Tesla model 3 Long Range or even SR model might be an option, even year old car might be cheaper


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,511 ✭✭✭✭ Lumen


    Model 3 SR+ range is crap for the money compared to the eNiro, but it charges faster.

    ID.3 has good combo of fast charging, good range plus cheaper Ionity charging, but depends on spec.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,377 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    Lumen wrote: »
    Model 3 SR+ range is crap for the money compared to the eNiro, but it charges faster.

    ID.3 has good combo of fast charging, good range plus cheaper Ionity charging, but depends on spec.

    RWD and a lot faster though ;)

    The faster charging is a plus too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,830 ✭✭✭ the_amazing_raisin


    Lumen wrote: »
    Model 3 SR+ range is crap for the money compared to the eNiro, but it charges faster.

    ID.3 has good combo of fast charging, good range plus cheaper Ionity charging, but depends on spec.

    ID.4 also charges at 125kW peak, same as the bigger battery ID.3

    Should make Dublin to Galway and back with a single 30 mins charge at Galway plaza, assuming you have no destination charger available


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,377 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    Yeah, these days if faster charging is available I'd be going for this if the budget allows.


  • Registered Users Posts: 246 ✭✭ jordan191


    Lumen wrote: »
    Model 3 SR+ range is crap for the money compared to the eNiro, but it charges faster.

    ID.3 has good combo of fast charging, good range plus cheaper Ionity charging, but depends on spec.

    I suspose for 34k, the Id3 ain't too bad but it's range isn't great around 260-300kms looks a bit plain compared to a model 3, but then again not everyone is interested in having the extra range, power or speed, tech wise model 3 is years ahead of VW at the moment, they will catch up and no doubt the ID range will make billions for VW but I think they're just playing a bit too safe with the looks. I had a deposit on an ID3 but ended up buying a model 3 once I drove one


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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 6,084 Mod ✭✭✭✭ liamog


    Mad_Lad wrote: »
    There are a few cars with a good charging curve, battery temp depending of course.

    the 94 + 120 ah BMW i3
    Audi E-tron

    There's a few others I can't think of atm.

    I'm really noticing the cold battery difference between the Ioniq and the Mini (same battery as the 94Ah I3). The Ioniq 28kWh maybe adds about 4/5 min during cold weather so I never really understood what you were talking about.


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