New electric car

emmet02

Summer8181 wrote: »

I am not sure if there a thread for the cost of charging at charge stations.

What is the average price per kwh?

What is the price vs time to charge.

I would be willing to stop for 20 minutes but would like 100km range or around 30 KWh.


Is this a runner or not?

30 kWh in 20 mins requires the chargepoint delivery to average @ 90 KW. This would be DC only but certainly available via Ionity.
I found the explanations of the different charging types at https://www.zap-map.com/charge-points/connectors-speeds/ very helpful.

However, just because the charger can facilitate that, doesn't mean that it's possible for the specific car. As an example, my 28 Ioniq has a max of ~ 69kW (see https://ev-database.org/car/1057/Hyundai-IONIQ-Electric)

• Fastcharge Power (max) 69 kW DC
• Fastcharge Time (19->152 km) 19 min

The Ioniq wouldn't need to pull 30kWh to drive 100km though as it is such an efficient car (also couldn't fit it!).

So you have a bit of math to do, and I think what you're looking for is that "Fastcharge Time" via the ev-database site, if the metric you want to get is "how long to pull 100km of range, and what price?".

For Ioniq 28 Vehicle consumption is given on ev-database.com as 147 Wh/km
Meaning that 100km of range requires ~14.7 kWh (let's call it 15).
We could pull that from a SuperFast charger (Ionity) in ~ 15/20 mins, and it would cost ~€12
Or we could pull it from Ecars in 35/40 mins @ ~€5

Using the Vehicle Consumption figures and the FastCharge Power for any car should give you the comparisons required.

Re:price, the plugshare app has prices for any site you could possibly stop, worth having a gander but believe that it's 'standard' @

• ECars ~ 30.5c/kWh (max 50kW chargers)
• Ionity ~ 79c/kWh

sk8board

emmet02 wrote: »

So you have a bit of math to do, and I think what you're looking for is that "Fastcharge Time" via the ev-database site, if the metric you want to get is "how long to pull 100km of range, and what price?".

For Ioniq 28 Vehicle consumption is given on ev-database.com as 147 Wh/km
Meaning that 100km of range requires ~14.7 kWh (let's call it 15).
We could pull that from a SuperFast charger (Ionity) in ~ 15/20 mins, and it would cost ~€12
Or we could pull it from Ecars in 35/40 mins @ ~€5

12c/km on Ionity for something as efficient as the Ioniq is the reason why the main Irish solution will always be overnight home charging; with cars with real ranges of 5-600km to cover any return journey, combined with small range top-ups just to get you home (which will take 5-10min in the near future). Apartment dwellers, salesmen and professional drivers will be using hydrogen or synthetic fuels.

Current diesel costs are about 6-10c/km depending on engine size. I pay about 7.5-8c/km on a 2.0L. Considering EVs were 4.5% of sales in 2020, most people are very safe in their diesel for many years to come.

the_amazing_raisin

Summer8181 wrote: »

I am not sure if there a thread for the cost of charging at charge stations.

What is the average price per kwh?

What is the price vs time to charge.

I would be willing to stop for 20 minutes but would like 100km range or around 30 KWh.


Is this a runner or not?

Not really much to compare, there's basically ESB (€0.305/kWh at the 50kW station) or Ionity (€0.79/kWh, but discounts are possible). Where you charge is really dictated by where you're going, it's rare that there's a route with a selection of chargers at convenient locations



The amount of energy needed for 100km depends on the efficiency of the car, an Ioniq would need less energy than an e-Tron.


This is why charging speeds are often measured in km/h. You'd be looking for a car that charges at an average of 300km/h or more


It's also worth remembering that the battery charges fastest at a lower state of charge, there's no point in arriving to a charging station with more than 80% as the car will charge very slowly

Old diesel

sk8board wrote: »

12c/km on Ionity for something as efficient as the Ioniq is the reason why the main Irish solution will always be overnight home charging; with cars with real ranges of 5-600km to cover any return journey, combined with small range top-ups just to get you home (which will take 5-10min in the near future). Apartment dwellers, salesmen and professional drivers will be using hydrogen or synthetic fuels.

Current diesel costs are about 6-10c/km depending on engine size. I pay about 7.5-8c/km on a 2.0L. Considering EVs were 4.5% of sales in 2020, most people are very safe in their diesel for many years to come.

I think it would be easier do "where you park the car" type approach to infrastructure for EVs.

Rather then a larger scale hydrogen network.

Especially if we move to a car sharing type approach long term.

There's challenges for apartments for sure but you have to weigh the challenges of that Vs putting in a big refuel network for Hydrogen and developing synthetic fuels.

Importantly - I don't think you need to rig up an ESB supply to your apartment. You can have some form of separate payment plan for the charger you use for the car.

That ability to pay your cars electricity separate is already a thing for the charge from a lamppost type idea thats already a thing in some places.

Edit - nothing to stop Govt doing a scheme where people pay full cost of public charging but get a rebate* from Govt so that net cost is home charging cost

*Local charging if you have no charger at home - plus essential work use

emmet02

Update to previous post - chargecloud.de as your method to pay for Ionity brings the Ionity cost down to 45c/kWh

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058002492&page=18#post115809540

So a few (very small) hoops to jump through for significant saving in €/time.

Old diesel

Also is that 12 cent a km based on Ionitys 79 cent a kwh????

If so you are taking the top end of the charge spectrum.

Even Ionity itself isn't that dear if you are on a deal via your WVs manufacturers or via an RFID card or app that has a deal with Ionity.

What's the real world cost of Hydrogen and synthetic fuels going to be.

AndyBoBandy

My 320d consumes an average of 7.5l/100km, so if diesel is €1.21 per litre, it works out at €0.09 per km
My Model 3 average consumption is 140Wh/km, so at night rate electricity rate (~€0.08/kWh), it works out at just over €0.01 per km

If I had to pay the Ionity rate of €0.79/kWh, it would work out at €0.11/km, which is more expensive than diesel (in my case). So if you were only charging on Ionity at €0.79/kWh, then yeah, keep the diesel as its cheaper to run (without factoring in maintenance costs), but if 99.5% of your charging is done at home, and only 0.5% is done on a really expensive (Ionity) rate, overall it's still much much more beneficial to go electric...

the_amazing_raisin

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

My 320d consumes an average of 7.5l/100km, so if diesel is €1.21 per litre, it works out at €0.09 per km
My Model 3 average consumption is 140Wh/km, so at night rate electricity rate (~€0.08/kWh), it works out at just over €0.01 per km

If I had to pay the Ionity rate of €0.79/kWh, it would work out at €0.11/km, which is more expensive than diesel (in my case). So if you were only charging on Ionity at €0.79/kWh, then yeah, keep the diesel as its cheaper to run (without factoring in maintenance costs), but if 99.5% of your charging is done at home, and only 0.5% is done on a really expensive (Ionity) rate, overall it's still much much more beneficial to go electric...

Also if you were charging exclusively on Ionity, then you would likely go for one of the discounts available. Even the paid options can work out at good value, the We Charge Plus is €17.49 per month breaks even after 2000km, easy enough to do if you're using Ionity only


And if any petrolheads are going to start saying that's too much hassle, I should probably point out that Circle K and Applegreen both offer fuel cards with discounts. And anyone I've seen with a company vehicle or who does a lot of driving for work usually has a fuel card to keep their fuel costs down

unkel

Significant savings on tolls too if you do a lot of long distance driving. On my round trip to north west of Galway a couple weeks ago in my large car cost about:

80kWh * 7c to charge the car up at home = €5.60 + €14 public fast charge + €4.80 in tolls (50% discount) = €24

In a similar diesel it would have cost 450km * 8l/100 km = 36l * €1.20 = €43 + €9.60 in tolls = €53

unkel

And another one that might be a bit more relevant for people living in the greater Dublin area (half the population of this country)

6 round trips (45km) off peak from my home in Lucan to Dublin airport would cost:

In my EV: 270km * 20kWh/100km = 54kWh + 10% charging losses = 60kWh * 7c = €4.20 + 12 * €0.58 toll (75% discount) = €11
In a similar diesel: 270km * 8l/100 km = 21.6l * €1.20 = €26 diesel plus €28 toll = €54

furiousox

Rather than starting a new thread I'd like to ask the same question as the OP.

We're ready to pull the trigger on either a 40kw leaf sve or the kona executive 39.

Daily commute from Drogheda to Nth Dublin city and back, about 90km per day round trip and we will be getting a home charger fitted.

Money wise they're both working out much the same.

We both like the two tone leaf in white with the black roof but my wife slightly prefers the driving position of the kona (we both noticed the centre console in the leaf flares outwards and irritates your left knee somewhat)

I'm 60/40 in favour of the leaf but I'm slightly concerned that it's maybe becoming outdated in comparison to the new technology of the kona.

I don't see one being "better" than the other, just different from each other.

Is there any obvious reason apart from the different driving positions (car vs suv) to choose one over the other?

unkel

Leaf is based on very old technology, it's very inefficient (not important to most people) and only has obsolete CHAdeMO fast charging. Now the latter is irrelevant of course if you rarely or never have to publicly fast charge. It's a much bigger car than the Kona though, but I guess that doesn't matter to you. Both are well made reliable cars.

Are you buying new? The reason I'm asking is that for very reasonable money you can buy a couple year old Kona 64kWh now second hand. This has the much better battery pack than the 39kWh version and it has such a long range that public charging almost becomes a non-issue altogether even on longer trips

slave1

and that era Kona lined up from brand new battery replacement also...

kanuseeme

IMO a larger battery might be easier to sell/better trade in value, if you have charging in work a phev might be an option.

Just looking at posts above for this time last year, diesel priced at 1.20 euro, I could believe that, 8l /100 km seems very steep especially when others are recommending a diesel capable of doing half that over a phev doing 3.9 l /100 km.